Theories Discussion > KGB / Radiation / Military involvement
Radioactive Clothes
Armide:
This might seem like a bit of a dumb question, and sorry if it is, but how did they know to test the clothes for radioactivity? Back in the day where information on radiation's effect on human beings was still relatively unknown, why would this have been part of the protocol? I mean hell, even in Chernobyl almost 20 years later the Soviets didn't expect the extent of devastation which was observed since experiments on the matter were scarce.
So, was there anything that may have warranted for an inquiry on the radioactivity of their clothes? Did the officials know that some of them worked in nuclear facilities and for those reasons wanted to test their bodies or something?
EDIT: I ended up finding something in Rakitin's notes that kind of confirms what I had to say. It's all Google Translate language, but I think you get the gist of it:
"In view of the foregoing, the investigator's own proposal to verify the bodies of deceased tourists and their clothes for radioactivity is tantamount to offering to involve the KGB in the case. For that time it was only so. The idea of appointing a radiological examination could not have occurred to investigator Ivanov on the level ground, simply because there was nothing to do. For such an examination there should have been some objective indicators ... or a certain demand, a serious one so that it could not be ignored.
In the case materials there are no objective prerequisites to suspect the presence of radioactive materials at the site of the tragedy of the Dyatlov group. And the tradition of checking the clothes of all corpses with a dosimeter in the USSR in 1959 did not exist, as it does not exist in Russia today. Therefore, someone very strongly recommended the investigator to conduct a radiological examination. Ivanov himself did not need this expertise - the case clearly went under the closure and he would calmly close it without unnecessary red tape."
So we can assume that someone pretty high up had something to do with the investigation and pushed Ivanov to ask for a dosimeter reading of the hikers' clothes. But why? I don't think it makes any more sense than in Rakitin's "Controlled Delivery" theory, unless it had something to do with the previous workplaces of some of the hikers. Someone high up had to know or had to have doubts that there was some radioactivity present at the time of their deaths, I just can't figure out who or why.
Loose}{Cannon:
That's a great question!
Unfortunately, I don't have the answer other then to speculate. I'm guessing they were either paranoid about a possible hand off to spies, or the fact someof these 'ex-students' now work in the field and may uave been up to no good somehow, OR perhaps they had reason to suspect a government project or test may be at fault?
CalzagheChick:
I'm going to point to Svetlana Oss's "Don't Go There" pages 66-68:
pp.66
"It was Vladimir Askinadze’s probe that damaged Dubinina’s body.
Askinadze recently published a letter in Ural Pathfinder magazine, in which
he recalls that the distance between all the heads of those found in the brook
was about 30 cm (about 11.5 inches) – they were all very close to each other.
As for Dubinina, he says her head was laying down on a kind of a
natural ledge with water rolling over it. Her mouth was open.
When we tried to pull them out, we saw Zolotariov had a notebook
in one hand and a pen in the other. Ortukov saw this, grabbed the book,
read it and immediately cursed Zolotariov with a disparaging word and
said: ‘He’s written nothing.’
Was this really the case, or did he not want others to know what was
written in the notebook? George Ortukov was the Army Colonel in charge of
logistics and helicopter support. Putting aside for now the possibility of
concealment, this is a highly significant comment if it corroborates the timing
of the commencement of the disaster. He shouts in disappointment that the last
entries in the diary offer no clues and make no mention of problems. It was
pp.67
written in the absence of strangeness or fear.
Askinadze also states that it was hard to identify the bodies as they
uncovered them, and it was Ortukov who was saying ‘this is x, and here is y’.
‘We were surprised,’ Askinadze said, ‘because it was really hard to see,
and no one could object or disagree.’
Askinadze also mentioned that while he was present during that period,
he felt very strongly that those in charge were not really interested in a proper
investigation. He remembers that the investigator Lev Ivanov ‘did not even
approach the pad of branches, didn’t take pictures, it seemed they already had
an explanation’. Askinadze extends this accusation to Ortukov, who was in
charge of the whole rescue operation. He wrote: ‘If it was really so important
to get this right, why didn’t they call for Yuri Yudin? He was the only one that
knew them all, and could say for sure. I only knew Zina.’
But nothing like this was done, and everything was rushed. This rush
was from someone above – from Moscow, Sverdlovsk, or Ivdel. The
atmosphere was very tense. Everyone was anxious for answers and waiting for
news.
Ortukov and some soldiers took all the bodies from the stream, carried
them up the bank and placed them on special stretchers to drag them across the
snow, then took them up to the pass and the helicopter pad. It was hard work,
and they repeated the same process four times. A helicopter met them on the
pass, but the pilots refused to take the bodies on board, complaining this was
outside their official duties. It has been said that the pilots knew the bodies
were poisoned with radiation and, for this reason, didn’t want them in the
aircraft.
Ortukov sent a radio message, complaining
This is a scandal! I and fourteen other people brought these bodies
on our shoulders and they refused to take the bodies in spite of me
insisting. As a Communist I am outraged by the behaviour of the crew and
ask you to inform the Communist Party leader about it. And I have to
mention to you for clarity, these bodies are frozen. We packed them for
transportation and there was no reason to refuse to take them. The medical
expert refused to examine or to cut the bodies here on site. It is absolutely
not dangerous from the point of hygiene. They are folded and covered in
special impervious material. The crew said they would not transport them
until they are in Zinc coffins.
pp. 68
At this time Colonel Ortukov was exhausted and at his limit. He took out
his pistol and tried to threaten the crew. Vladimir Askinadze intervened, after
which the medical expert reorganized how the bodies should be packed for
transportation, and they were finally sent.
Old Colonel Georg-y Porge-y really puts a thorn in my foot with the entire investigation as Svetlana Oss tells the tale...
Loose}{Cannon:
looking back at my previous post.
Im not responsible for the typos that are created by my 'smart' phone. bang1
Per Inge Oestmoen:
--- Quote from: CalzagheChick on May 05, 2018, 09:36:01 PM ---I'm going to point to Svetlana Oss's "Don't Go There" pages 66-68:
pp.67
"Askinadze also states that it was hard to identify the bodies as they uncovered them, and it was Ortukov who was saying ‘this is x, and here is y’.
‘We were surprised,’ Askinadze said, ‘because it was really hard to see, and no one could object or disagree.’
Askinadze also mentioned that while he was present during that period, he felt very strongly that those in charge were not really interested in a proper investigation. He remembers that the investigator Lev Ivanov ‘did not even approach the pad of branches, didn’t take pictures, it seemed they already had an explanation’. Askinadze extends this accusation to Ortukov, who was in charge of the whole rescue operation. He wrote: ‘If it was really so important to get this right, why didn’t they call for Yuri Yudin? He was the only one that knew them all, and could say for sure. I only knew Zina.’
But nothing like this was done, and everything was rushed. This rush was from someone above – from Moscow, Sverdlovsk, or Ivdel. The
atmosphere was very tense."
--- End quote ---
Thank you very much for bringing up this. It is important information.
I will point to another passage in Svetlana Oss' book, on page 89-90:
"Around the time of these inquiries Ivanov began to create his version of events, which was murder. But just as had been the case with Korotaev, he became closely supervised. He was called to Moscow and, according to the testimony of the search party, came back a different man. After this, the investigation changed. Not only did it become more covert, but it was also apparent that the investigators were much less active - merely 'going through the motions' - and no longer interested in uncovering the truth."
There are many indications that the premature closing of the investigation, and the eventual conclusions, were wanted and perhaps also dictated by high-ranking people at the time.
To proceed today, we might remember the old saying that "dead people do not lie." In other words, the forensic evidence with an open-minded analysis of the injuries suffered by the nine unfortunate hikers is a good place to start in order to approach a true solution to the Dyatlov pass tragedy.
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