Dyatlov Pass Forum

Theories Discussion => Lightning strike / Ball lightning => Topic started by: Nigel Evans on December 05, 2018, 07:43:49 AM

Title: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 05, 2018, 07:43:49 AM
Thought i'd start pulling some of my posts across various threads into just one. This is the real BL thread, accept no others from false prophets and people just messing around....
A possible narrative.

1. Snowstorms create ionisation horizontally in a similar manner to how thunderstorms create it vertically.


2. Free electrons in swirling air creates microwaves.

3. Microwaves create ozone and nitrogen oxides, typically nitrogen dioxide - NO2.

4. Humans exposed to NO2 suffer from silo fillers disease - nitric acid in lung. NO2 also slowly converts to nitric acid on the skin which interacts with the keratin to turn it yellow and orange. N.B. Yuri D displayed evidence of a pulmonary edema and had dark orange skin at his funeral (but less in the morgue). As did others e.g. Zina and Lyudmila. N.B. this is also seen with the Chivruay victims. Penetrating the deep snow to pitch a tent creates an earth point in an otherwise insulated landscape creating a concentration of NO2 at/in the tent (assuming that the nitrogen oxides are correctly ionised and attracted to earth). N.B. the NO2 theory has other explanations - decomposing grasses under the snow "silage" and nitrogen oxides from rocket fuel.

5. The ionised air above the mountain creates lightning which it has been observed can create "rollers" - http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html (http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Roller.html) and https://www.hist-geo-space-sci.net/9/79/2018/hgss-9-79-2018.pdf (https://www.hist-geo-space-sci.net/9/79/2018/hgss-9-79-2018.pdf) which are a form of ball lightning (BL). One of the books i've read mentions that at a funeral one of the investigating party confided in a relative that they had seen rollers coming down the mountain one night. These will be Ivanov's fire orbs, possibly caught on photos from the official record and more possibly caught on missing frames from Semyon's camera.

6. One theory to explain BL is that it is a plasma of electrons rotating at relativistic speeds. This results in the object demonstrating large mass and momentum.

7. This gives you injuries consistent with an automobile accident. Further it's observed that BL can interact with dielectrics and conductors in curious ways, e.g. BL passing down a street can rip internal house wiring through walls and throw it into the street presumably via electro motive force. So the ravine injuries could have an explanation here as well. There is of course some overlap with Lyudmila's injuries and cattle mutilations which have EM explanations.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 05, 2018, 08:15:49 AM
Few questions. 

#1

Would this be something you walk away from making no attempt to run etc?

#2

Would this be something that targets individuals in not one, not two, but three locations on three separate occasions as if its 'piloted' or otherwise has intelligence to do so?

#3

Does this phenomena target individuals specifically injuring their knuckles, noses, cheeks etc? 

#4

Is this a phenomena which can be foreseen where it will strike?  In other words,  Is it predictable as far as when/where it will take place? 

#5

Does it go something like this?


https://youtu.be/33Pa0L6ZKFA
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 05, 2018, 10:56:22 AM
#1

Would this be something you walk away from making no attempt to run etc?If it was just say NO2 attracted out of the sky onto the tent then it would fit with the evidence, people start coughing then small cuts for ventilation which would only accelerate the ingress and then big cuts to escape. Then they would stand in a row some distance away possibly looking at a mist enveloping the tent before electing to abandon. This would explain why they could stand there relatively near but not retrieve more clothing / footwear. Remember that at the Chivruay event (5?) people had laid on top of the tent using it as a groundsheet rather than seeking shelter within. As if they believed the interior to be somehow toxic.

#2

Would this be something that targets individuals in not one, not two, but three locations on three separate occasions as if its 'piloted' or otherwise has intelligence to do so?I only need two events, NO2 at the tent, one roller at the ravine?
#3

Does this phenomena target individuals specifically injuring their knuckles, noses, cheeks etc? 
I've never believed in the "combat injuries" because there are no obvious/unambiguous ones only ambiguous injuries that can be explained as slipping on ice in the dark etc. Someone fell out of the cedar btw.

#4

Is this a phenomena which can be foreseen where it will strike?  In other words,  Is it predictable as far as when/where it will take place?The theory would predict regular occurences depending on prevailing weather conditions and... what are we told about credible witnessed events, mansi folklore etc? But accurately predicting it would probably belong to the science of the future (possibly not that far away..). Note most "mountain lights" across the globe are localised to fairly small regions suggesting a favourable situation between prevailing wind and terrain.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Monika on December 05, 2018, 11:44:06 PM
Your theory is interesting. I still think that the whole thing caused some little known physical phenomenon, and I do not see it as a coincidence that orange spheres were observed in that area at that time. The only problem with NO2 theory is that:
1. After leaving the tent, they behaved rationally (organized departure, their traces were clear and there were no contours of the body / hands on the snow only their feet, so it is clear that they went upright and were not injured). After gas intoxication, walking would be altogether different.
2. If NO2 was created in the tent, it was enough to get out and tilt the tent and get to dress. I do not believe that there would be too much NO2 when it happened that it could not be diluted with ambient air. I do not know, but it seems to me that there is something wrong with the tent that they could not touch him, overturn him, perhaps he could be under electric charge? The same can be said of e.g. CO2 from stove, as some say. It was enough to go out and overturn or cut through the tent and pick things up.

Plasmoid can be in the solar win and it is proved that at that time there was a strong eruption from the sun. And this area on the Urals is anomalous due to the composition of the soil and the rocks, and “something” could have been created there, which we cannot imagine now. And, of course, NO2 theory is highly probable. Personally, I do not believe it has caused some bombs or weapons, but it has caused the very nature. Some people speculate that the classical ball lighting has a lifetime of up to 4 seconds. But somewhere I read that some of the balls they assume are plasmoids were seen for 7 hours.

What I absolutely do not understand is why Zolotarev had a camera on his neck and why he did not make any picture. He had enough time, assuming he died a few hours after leaving the tent.
In terms of bruises and minor injuries, they probably arose when the trio tried to return  to the tent and were already weak, so they did not go upright but occasionally fell and under the snow were the small rocks.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 06, 2018, 01:33:50 AM

1. After leaving the tent, they behaved rationally (organized departure, their traces were clear and there were no contours of the body / hands on the snow only their feet, so it is clear that they went upright and were not injured). After gas intoxication, walking would be altogether different.NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid on contact with moisture. With silo fillers disease symptoms can take 2 days to manifest. The assumption here is that the exposure took hours except for Yuri D who died sooner.


Plasmoid can be in the solar win and it is proved that at that time there was a strong eruption from the sun. And this area on the Urals is anomalous due to the composition of the soil and the rocks, and “something” could have been created there, which we cannot imagine now. And, of course, NO2 theory is highly probable. Personally, I do not believe it has caused some bombs or weapons, but it has caused the very nature. Some people speculate that the classical ball lighting has a lifetime of up to 4 seconds. But somewhere I read that some of the balls they assume are plasmoids were seen for 7 hours.Yes i'd agree with that. Imo the longer durations might be from ion stream discharge.


What I absolutely do not understand is why Zolotarev had a camera on his neck and why he did not make any picture. He had enough time, assuming he died a few hours after leaving the tent.I think he did. Apparently there are 8 missing frames from that camera and we know that information was confiscated from the official report and that Ivanov a rational educated man maintained for the rest of his life that the fire orbs were involved.
In terms of bruises and minor injuries, they probably arose when the trio tried to return  to the tent and were already weak, so they did not go upright but occasionally fell and under the snow were the small rocks.Imo the "combat injuries" are ambiguous., others disagree.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on December 06, 2018, 02:14:49 PM
I do not subscribe to the Ball Lightning Theory, or the Gas Theory.  They all left the safety of the Tent leaving most of their belongings in the Tent to go into an exposed situation on a mountain side. They travel a mile or so to the edge of the forest. They start a fire. They climb a tree. They may have tried to build a Den.  Is the Ball Lightning chasing them around for several hours  !  ?  DUBININA had some very severe injuries and they could not have been caused by Ball Lightning. Animal Mutilations are just that, animals that have been mutilated by something and that something is not Ball Lightning. Too many witnesses have been involved in Animal Mutilation Cases and I have found NO MENTION of Ball Lightning as being the cause.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 06, 2018, 02:37:55 PM
https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2018/08/unexplained-cattle-mutilations-linked-to-lights-in-the-sky/ (https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2018/08/unexplained-cattle-mutilations-linked-to-lights-in-the-sky/)claiming to have witnessed anomalous aerial phenomena coinciding with similar unexplained mutilations in the area. “The thing about the lights is true,” Bieri told reporters. “I’ve seen it.”
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Monika on December 06, 2018, 10:48:17 PM
I do not subscribe to the Ball Lightning Theory, or the Gas Theory.  They all left the safety of the Tent leaving most of their belongings in the Tent to go into an exposed situation on a mountain side. They travel a mile or so to the edge of the forest. They start a fire. They climb a tree. They may have tried to build a Den.  Is the Ball Lightning chasing them around for several hours  !  ?  DUBININA had some very severe injuries and they could not have been caused by Ball Lightning. Animal Mutilations are just that, animals that have been mutilated by something and that something is not Ball Lightning. Too many witnesses have been involved in Animal Mutilation Cases and I have found NO MENTION of Ball Lightning as being the cause.

It is true that after leaving the tent they lived a few more hours. I do not think the lighting ball was chasing them. If it were, they would run away and would not be organized. It could happen that more lighting ball were created in the given time interval. Or the lighting ball caused them to leave the tent, and then some accompanying physical and dangerous phenomenon that eventually formed killed the four at the ravine. The entire Ural region is strange, there are strange phenomena during many years. All the time I say, people and scientists still do not know about many physical phenomena on Earth. Something has driven them out of the tent, but it is clear from their behavior that outside the tent they did not feel threatened but unfortunately, the reality was different.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on December 09, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
I do not subscribe to the Ball Lightning Theory, or the Gas Theory.  They all left the safety of the Tent leaving most of their belongings in the Tent to go into an exposed situation on a mountain side. They travel a mile or so to the edge of the forest. They start a fire. They climb a tree. They may have tried to build a Den.  Is the Ball Lightning chasing them around for several hours  !  ?  DUBININA had some very severe injuries and they could not have been caused by Ball Lightning. Animal Mutilations are just that, animals that have been mutilated by something and that something is not Ball Lightning. Too many witnesses have been involved in Animal Mutilation Cases and I have found NO MENTION of Ball Lightning as being the cause.

It is true that after leaving the tent they lived a few more hours. I do not think the lighting ball was chasing them. If it were, they would run away and would not be organized. It could happen that more lighting ball were created in the given time interval. Or the lighting ball caused them to leave the tent, and then some accompanying physical and dangerous phenomenon that eventually formed killed the four at the ravine. The entire Ural region is strange, there are strange phenomena during many years. All the time I say, people and scientists still do not know about many physical phenomena on Earth. Something has driven them out of the tent, but it is clear from their behavior that outside the tent they did not feel threatened but unfortunately, the reality was different.


But how do you know that they did not feel threatened outside the TENT  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Monika on December 11, 2018, 05:00:40 AM
I do not subscribe to the Ball Lightning Theory, or the Gas Theory.  They all left the safety of the Tent leaving most of their belongings in the Tent to go into an exposed situation on a mountain side. They travel a mile or so to the edge of the forest. They start a fire. They climb a tree. They may have tried to build a Den.  Is the Ball Lightning chasing them around for several hours  !  ?  DUBININA had some very severe injuries and they could not have been caused by Ball Lightning. Animal Mutilations are just that, animals that have been mutilated by something and that something is not Ball Lightning. Too many witnesses have been involved in Animal Mutilation Cases and I have found NO MENTION of Ball Lightning as being the cause.

It is true that after leaving the tent they lived a few more hours. I do not think the lighting ball was chasing them. If it were, they would run away and would not be organized. It could happen that more lighting ball were created in the given time interval. Or the lighting ball caused them to leave the tent, and then some accompanying physical and dangerous phenomenon that eventually formed killed the four at the ravine. The entire Ural region is strange, there are strange phenomena during many years. All the time I say, people and scientists still do not know about many physical phenomena on Earth. Something has driven them out of the tent, but it is clear from their behavior that outside the tent they did not feel threatened but unfortunately, the reality was different.


But how do you know that they did not feel threatened outside the TENT  !  ?

If they felt threatened outside the tent, they would not go into the woods and make a fire that would show their position to a murderer or animal. And they behaved rationally, even they  could make a den, being lightly dressed and without gloves. It must be almost superhuman activity. If something threatened there, they would rather be stifled in shock and do not do those things.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 11, 2018, 12:35:22 PM
Just updating here with the discussion on the NO2 thread - http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=270.0
The theory is that some forms of ball lightning (not necessarily visible, microwave solitons?) generate large quantities of nitrogen oxides and the DPI group had the bad luck of being in a downwind plume (see videos). This resulted in poisoning some/many of the group with NO2 resulting in silo fillers disease, particularly Yuri D who appears to died considerably earlier than most. Evidence for the theory is :-Further if the plume contained other nitrogen oxides such as N2O (laughing gas) then this could explain some dubious decision making :-It would also explain at lot of minor injuries. N2O also makes you clumsy.

Further the same electro magnetic phenomena that created the plume then produced ball lightning rollers which have a consistently observed  feature that they demonstrate significant mass/momentum (Ivanov's fire orbs, scorched trees). This narrative assumes that they were produced at the peak and rolled down the hill under gravity. Unfortunately sheltering in the ravine proved to be a second piece of bad luck. A roller found the ravine and followed down it (pin ball alley) resulting in impact/crushing injuries for several members of the group (including Rustem who died of internal bleeding).
Igor and Zina were spared the roller but perished in the cold attempting to return to the tent probably because as the incline steepened their reduced cardio vascular ability maxed out. This why they and Rustem where all found within 300 metres.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 11, 2018, 05:16:24 PM
Quote
The colour of the deceased faces and hands but not bodies at their funerals (versus at the morgue).
Lyudmila's face.

The plume could be quite hot at source. The condition of the snow, sastrugi around the tent as reported by rescuers and as photographed (hotspot) suggests that the snow on this area of the hill had it's temperature raised close to melting.

Sure, if you could please link us to the exact page source from the ORIGINAL CASE files where these things are stated.....  thanks in advance.    excuseme

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 11, 2018, 05:38:38 PM
Quote
After an autopsy was performed in Ivdel, the corpses were sent to the Sverdlovsk military morgue, where they conducted a second autopsy to determine the causes of death.
In the morgue, for the identification of the bodies of Igor Dyatlov and Rustem Slobodin, the tenth participant of the campaign, Yuri Yudin, arrived. He noticed the dark brown color of the opened and processed corpse of Igor Dyatlov, the color of the raw corpse of Rustem Slobodin was ordinary. Later, the children present at the funeral will speak about the unusual dark color of all the corpses.
In the acts of the FMS, the skin color of the corpses is described as reddish-purple, after the morgue, the skin color of the corpses changed and acquired a brown tint that was noticed at the funeral. Methanol in the digestive tract converts a dangerous poison - formaldehyde, This poison was in dead bodies. To neutralize formaldehyde use potassium permanganate (potassium permanganate). When formaldehyde interacts with potassium permanganate, a vigorous reaction takes place, accompanied by high temperature, as a result of which the formaldehyde boils and evaporates quickly. The skin color becomes yellow-brown.
For the treatment of corpses, in order to oxidize the methyl alcohol and evaporate formaldehyde from the bodies, apparently, potassium permanganate (manganese potassium) was used. After being treated with manganese, the corpses acquired a brownish color, this unusual dark color surprised those present at the funeral.

So....

the skin color of the corpses is described as reddish-purple, but miraculously after TWO autopsies, they come out brown.   WHO WOULDA THUNK IT!!!!
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 11, 2018, 05:46:50 PM
Quote
After many years, Vladimir Ivanovich would be the first to tell that he, a very young investigator, remembered how high-level KGB officers were present at the scene of the death of the same people as he, who warned about the special mode of investigation, how they took a subscription from not disclosing secrets for a period of 25 years, how journalists were not allowed to the search site, how innocent Mansi were interrogated in the cold, how terrible injuries were found in the dead, how barrels of alcohol were brought and forced physicians after the examination Oops wash in alcohol, and much, much more. Then, in tens of years, Vladimir Ivanovich will be interested in the fate of his first case, which has remained undisclosed for him.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 11, 2018, 05:48:23 PM
Quote
Sud.med.ekspert regional bureau of forensic revived
Prosecutor Sverdlovsk Region State Counselor of Justice 3rd Class Klinov
prosecutor criminologist regional prosecutor ml. Counselor of Justice Ivanov, witnesses: Gordo, Naskichev

Revived put on the document print forensic scientist.
The deed was done, the true cause of death is hidden ...
The role of the orderly in the Ivdel morgue, due to the lack of such, had to be performed by Vladimir Ivanovich Korotaev.
He worked with corpses in order to transfer the organs of the dead to Sverdlovsk for histology (the conclusion of which is not in the file).

He, a 22-year-old investigator, was then surprised by one fact - after opening each corpse, everyone went to wash themselves with ethyl alcohol. For this, a barrel of alcohol was brought to the morgue.

Oxidation of methanol in the body occurs with the formation of stronger poisons - formaldehyde and formic acid. The antagonist (neutralizer, antidote) of methanol is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), which competes with methanol for oxidative enzymes and inhibits the formation of toxic methanol metabolites.
If methanol gets on the body or on the hands, they should be washed off with plenty of water. When methanol gets on spec. clothes, they should be removed, washed in warm water, and the body should be washed in the shower for at least 15 / pminut.

The morgue of the "p / i H-240" part of Ivdel. Korotaev V.I. attended the autopsy tel.



There was no soul in the Ivdel morgue, so they made it easier and more efficient - the methanol labeled with radioactive nuclide, which had frozen bodies impregnated, and which by chance could remain on the bodies of health workers, was neutralized with ethanol.

At that time, Henrietta Eliseevna Churkina, her V. Korotaev, was present in Ivdel. asked to make an examination of the tent.
She drew attention to the strange shade of the clothes of the dead, hung after processing on the street.

I was present at the medical examination of the corpses, which was conducted by Boris the Reborn. I remember well when they took off their clothes and hung them on the ropes, we immediately noticed that she had some strange light purple hue, although it was of very different colors.

I asked Boris: “Don't you think that clothes are processed with something?” He agreed.

In order to eliminate the possibility of erroneous use of methanol as an alcoholic drink, it is added with chemical ink or other dye of a dark color, which dissolves well in methanol, at the rate of 2-3 liters per 1000 liters of methanol.

All information from Ivdel stopped, all lived only rumors.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 11, 2018, 05:50:10 PM
But, I guess that dont fit the piloted fireball narrative.  whist1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 12, 2018, 02:46:51 AM
But, I guess that dont fit the piloted fireball narrative.  whist1
Nope, the morgue technicians washing themselves with dyed alcohol doesn't fit with anyone's narrative...  Presumably they didn't experience dark orange brown hands?  thanky1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 12, 2018, 06:49:57 AM
I guess someone didnt read what I posted in its entirety.    rolleyes1

You know ass well as I do the bodies were NOT found having a orange/brown tone. 

Dont be mad because the FACTS do not fit your narrative. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 12, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
I guess someone didnt read what I posted in its entirety.    rolleyes1

You know ass well as I do the bodies were NOT found having a orange/brown tone. 

Dont be mad because the FACTS do not fit your narrative. 
Yes it's part of my narrative that the nitric acid slowly converts the keratin in the skin to a dark orange colour but only when the bodies are thawed. It's a key component of my narrative that only the exposed parts of the body (face and hands) would adopt this colour which is exactly as described by the relatives. Usage of morgue chemicals would not have been so particular. Also look at Lyudmila's morgue photo, before an autopsy took place the face is described as yellow- brown.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 12, 2018, 08:42:35 AM
Quote
only the exposed parts of the body (face and hands) would adopt this colour which is exactly as described by the relatives.

The relatives are not doctors, chemists etc. The persons reporting the color were ignorant after the facts seeing them AFTER TWO autopsies.   

Quote
Usage of morgue chemicals would not have been so particular.

Rather then create something that does not exist, observe the context as a whole.  Dismissal of science and chemistry and their reaction thereof will not further your agenda.

Quote
before an autopsy took place the face is described as yellow- brown.

Incorrect...  your flat out wrong!  And whatever book you quote is also going to be..... wrong.

Quote
it's part of my narrative that the nitric acid slowly converts the keratin in the skin to a dark orange colour but only when the bodies are thawed

The burden of proof is on YOU my friend.  All I see is someone twisting the facts and creating something where nothing exists for the sole purpose of furthering an agenda.  You would be best suited sticking to the facts rather then inventing them as needed.  The facts are, your unsubstantiated, multi-layered, fantastical theory can be be debunked with one word.....  MAKEUP!
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 12, 2018, 08:54:00 AM
It sounds like you're not fully onboard with this narrative...   quiet1

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on December 24, 2018, 06:49:09 AM
Just updating this thread.
This object is stated as being photographed by a hunter in the US at circa 10,000 feet.

Imo it's a good fit for the object (within the electro magnetic narrative) that caused the DPI. The theory is that the object is a standing wave of ionised air resulting in banded sections of microwave energy. The black bands (anti nodes) are producing NO2 at high temperatures (up to 150C). The heavier than air NO2 then drifts down and as it cools it takes on an orange hue. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
The theory fits all the evidence for the DPI, exiting the tent, observing it from a safe distance (outside of the plume boundary), warmed snow - sastrugi, persistent footsteps, Yuri D's foam on cheek, strong discolouration of the hands and faces at the funeral (NO2->nitric acid).

If nitrous oxide is included then you have an explanation for the Ortorten News, abandoning the tent in their socks, wasting matches, climbing a tree and falling out of it.


 (https://i.ibb.co/fD8SVps/ufo-cloud-US.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3Rfs5Nn)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on December 24, 2018, 09:58:48 AM
Strange how it has three blurry faces and wears a french baret. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on January 13, 2019, 02:08:32 AM
The Warminster thing - http://www.ufo-warminster.co.uk/information/thing_history.htm (http://www.ufo-warminster.co.uk/information/thing_history.htm)




Imo this is all a good fit for electro magnetic phenomena especially the audible events.


What's interesting here is are the reports of paralysis. Could be relevant to the DPI, falling out of the tree, ravine, returning three.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on January 13, 2019, 03:56:24 AM
Due to it's age (1965) sadly there aren't any videos of the Warminster thing but this was taken recently just a few miles away at Frome. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeKBoFQsXoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeKBoFQsXoQ)




This part of Britain is also famous for crop circles.....
and Stonehenge....
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on January 13, 2019, 02:25:43 PM
I have watched some programmes about UFOs similar to this where an explanation was provided based on geological tremors.  The strange noises are characteristic of such tremors and the event creates a huge electrical field that causes ionisation of the atmosphere and strange lights being seen.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on January 13, 2019, 03:03:13 PM
I have watched some programmes about UFOs similar to this where an explanation was provided based on geological tremors.  The strange noises are characteristic of such tremors and the event creates a huge electrical field that causes ionisation of the atmosphere and strange lights being seen.


Yes i think the theory is that it's a macro version of the piezoelectric effect. The ionisation is then "wiggled" by atmospheric air currents and you get microwaves. That's not what's happening at the DP though but the resultant microwaves could produce similar effects as recorded at Warminster.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on January 14, 2019, 12:21:19 PM
Quoted from Monika ;

[[  If they felt threatened outside the tent, they would not go into the woods and make a fire that would show their position to a murderer or animal. And they behaved rationally, even they  could make a den, being lightly dressed and without gloves. It must be almost superhuman activity. If something threatened there, they would rather be stifled in shock and do not do those things.  ]]

This statement is a pure guess.  You can not possibly know how they felt about the situation from what little evidence we have. How can you claim that they behaved rationally  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on January 14, 2019, 12:27:58 PM
I have watched some programmes about UFOs similar to this where an explanation was provided based on geological tremors.  The strange noises are characteristic of such tremors and the event creates a huge electrical field that causes ionisation of the atmosphere and strange lights being seen.



But this doesnt really go any where near explaining all the separate events that created the Dyatlov Mystery.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 02, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....




Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 02, 2019, 09:13:39 AM
In my experience, the photographer 99.9% of the time naturally captures their subject in the center of the frame.  In this case the search group was the subject, so I would HIGHLY doubt there was anything significant happening above them as you allude to.  I also HIGHLY doubt that if there was, that they would just be calmly standing there NOT even looking at it.  I would also say, I have seen MANY old black/white photos in every scenario imaginable having dark spots like this.  Usually the culprit is something like a finger, glove, hat, strap etc hanging out close to the lense, OR an error in the development process.

Enjoy, and thanks for looking.      thumb1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 02, 2019, 11:27:48 AM
In my experience, the photographer 99.9% of the time naturally captures their subject in the center of the frame.  In this case the search group was the subject, so I would HIGHLY doubt there was anything significant happening above them as you allude to.  I also HIGHLY doubt that if there was, that they would just be calmly standing there NOT even looking at it.  I would also say, I have seen MANY old black/white photos in every scenario imaginable having dark spots like this.  Usually the culprit is something like a finger, glove, hat, strap etc hanging out close to the lense, OR an error in the development process.

Enjoy, and thanks fo thumb1 r looking.     
Or it's a black cloud and the snow immediately in front of the photographer is darkened by something.

It would be nice if we had the negative....
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 02, 2019, 04:16:48 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

I have seen this sort of thing many times especially on old film. I remember using cameras from the 1950's and 1960's and this was common. Dark smudgy looking parts of the photo.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 02, 2019, 04:23:03 PM
In my experience, the photographer 99.9% of the time naturally captures their subject in the center of the frame.  In this case the search group was the subject, so I would HIGHLY doubt there was anything significant happening above them as you allude to.  I also HIGHLY doubt that if there was, that they would just be calmly standing there NOT even looking at it.  I would also say, I have seen MANY old black/white photos in every scenario imaginable having dark spots like this.  Usually the culprit is something like a finger, glove, hat, strap etc hanging out close to the lense, OR an error in the development process.

Enjoy, and thanks fo thumb1 r looking.     
Or it's a black cloud and the snow immediately in front of the photographer is darkened by something.

It would be nice if we had the negative....

It would be nice if we had  lot of things. Maybe the reopening of the case will shed some light on the subject, we shall see.  But I really think you are off the beaten track regarding the dark parts of the photos.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 02, 2019, 04:27:10 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Are you talking geomagnetic storms created by solar activity?  Or just aurora type storms? Or are tou talking geologically generated electric fields?

If there was a significant build of electrical charge and this charge was concentrated around a point or many many points, then there is a possibility that the charge can dissipate into the air and in doing so carry sufficient energy to cause chemical reactions and form ozone and possibly nitrogen dioxide.  I have observed this effect myself using Piezo electric generators.  The effect is quite interesting when observed in the dark.  It creates a stream of illuminated (blue) charged particles that flow away from the point and you can smell the ozone.

If such a charge could be generated in geological structures and find a way for the charge to created ions in the air, then this could result in chemical reactions such as ozone and possibly nitrogen dioxide.  It would also create a localised light show.  This is suppose to have been observed during earth tremors.

It would be interesting to know what the geological make up of the area is?

I don't think the dark patch on the above photograph has anything to do with it though.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 02, 2019, 04:36:08 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Are you talking geomagnetic storms created by solar activity?  Or just aurora type storms? Or are tou talking geologically generated electric fields?

If there was a significant build of electrical charge and this charge was concentrated around a point or many many points, then there is a possibility that the charge can dissipate into the air and in doing so carry sufficient energy to cause chemical reactions and form ozone and possibly nitrogen dioxide.  I have observed this effect myself using Piezo electric generators.  The effect is quite interesting when observed in the dark.  It creates a stream of illuminated (blue) charged particles that flow away from the point and you can smell the ozone.

If such a charge could be generated in geological structures and find a way for the charge to created ions in the air, then this could result in chemical reactions such as ozone and possibly nitrogen dioxide.  It would also create a localised light show.  This is suppose to have been observed during earth tremors.

It would be interesting to know what the geological make up of the area is?

I don't think the dark patch on the above photograph has anything to do with it though.

Well apparently the Geology of the area is one of the things that will be investigated in March as part of the reopening of the case.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 02, 2019, 05:50:57 PM

Yes astronomers have been monitoring sun spots for 400 years and the highest count ever was in 1958 with 1959 very high as well.

For sure geology could be relevant but very high winds with snow seems to be a common factor with the DP and Chivruay so i'd consider this to be the favourite for creating the ionisation possibly with the terrain assisting.


Unless it's a rocket...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 03, 2019, 04:36:13 AM
I can't resist a post with these links :-
Fire orb over Canada - https://beforeitsnews.com/v3/beyond-science/2014/2448116.html
Fire orb over Mexico  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh4s3evMGF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh4s3evMGF0)
Fire orb over Brazil - https://www.zikazoom.com/zika-science/ufo-2017-falling-ufo-fireball-caught-on-camera-over-brazil/ (https://www.zikazoom.com/zika-science/ufo-2017-falling-ufo-fireball-caught-on-camera-over-brazil/)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 03, 2019, 05:27:06 AM
Looks like a typical high altitude 4 engine jet aircraft to me.   There is a reason why there are 2 trails coming off each wing.  The planes shiny fuselage is lit up by the setting sun and is traveling away from the viewer.   
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 03, 2019, 06:19:30 AM
Looks like a typical high altitude 4 engine jet aircraft to me.   There is a reason why there are 2 trails coming off each wing.  The planes shiny fuselage is lit up by the setting sun and is traveling away from the viewer.
it's an interesting argument for the second and third link but is clearly false for the first which sets the standard. In particular the contrails rotating around each other. Also they're quite thick but quite short. Quite different behaviour from normal contrails. But the first link blows any doubt out of the water. That is not an aircraft...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 03, 2019, 06:50:40 AM
Looks like a typical high altitude 4 engine jet aircraft to me.   There is a reason why there are 2 trails coming off each wing.  The planes shiny fuselage is lit up by the setting sun and is traveling away from the viewer.
it's an interesting argument for the second and third link but is clearly false for the first which sets the standard. In particular the contrails rotating around each other. Also they're quite thick but quite short. Quite different behaviour from normal contrails. But the first link blows any doubt out of the water. That is not an aircraft...
You'll like this link - http://contrailscience.com/short-sunlit-contrails-look-like-ufos/
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 03, 2019, 07:40:59 AM
Your literally looking right up its azz, of course its going to look big as the furthest back from the plane has expanded.  Think of a long conical taper.

I dunno what your first link is, but the dark smoke makes me think its not simply water vapor or similar.  Burning junk makes dark dirty smoke.  It looks a lot like all the Nibiru or "planet X" pics people wonk about.   


(http://www.bobfletcherinvestigations.com/uploads/3/7/6/4/37643205/6496201.jpg?463)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 03, 2019, 09:27:35 AM
Your literally looking right up its azz, of course its going to look big as the furthest back from the plane has expanded.  Think of a long conical taper.

I dunno what your first link is, but the dark smoke makes me think its not simply water vapor or similar.  Burning junk makes dark dirty smoke.  It looks a lot like all the Nibiru or "planet X" pics people wonk about.   


(http://www.bobfletcherinvestigations.com/uploads/3/7/6/4/37643205/6496201.jpg?463)
It's interesting because both conventional planes, meteorites, fireballs are all leaving a trail of hot vapour behind them to possibly reflect the setting sun.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 03, 2019, 03:47:31 PM
I can't resist a post with these links :-
Fire orb over Canada - https://beforeitsnews.com/v3/beyond-science/2014/2448116.html
Fire orb over Mexico  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh4s3evMGF0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh4s3evMGF0)
Fire orb over Brazil - https://www.zikazoom.com/zika-science/ufo-2017-falling-ufo-fireball-caught-on-camera-over-brazil/ (https://www.zikazoom.com/zika-science/ufo-2017-falling-ufo-fireball-caught-on-camera-over-brazil/)

We could all post lots of links but it wouldnt mean anything as far as the Dyatlov Mystery is concerned.  And it looks like an airplane of some kind.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 03, 2019, 03:49:23 PM
Looks like a typical high altitude 4 engine jet aircraft to me.   There is a reason why there are 2 trails coming off each wing.  The planes shiny fuselage is lit up by the setting sun and is traveling away from the viewer.
it's an interesting argument for the second and third link but is clearly false for the first which sets the standard. In particular the contrails rotating around each other. Also they're quite thick but quite short. Quite different behaviour from normal contrails. But the first link blows any doubt out of the water. That is not an aircraft...
You'll like this link - http://contrailscience.com/short-sunlit-contrails-look-like-ufos/

Why are you posting lots of links of airplanes in the sky  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 12:58:39 AM

Why are you posting lots of links of airplanes in the sky  !  ?

Because they're not airplanes?

(https://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/30080/images/shotufo.png)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 04, 2019, 05:53:44 AM
 lol1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 07:24:36 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge-gPIgsB9g
You can leave the sound off.
Alternatively just keep repeating "or is it a fireorb?". Works for me....
declare1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 07:44:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnNXSwMxZA
Much better soundtrack, no negative waves just funky plumes...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 07:57:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW-MqiCAGPo
Soundtrack not so good, no funky music.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 04, 2019, 09:02:40 AM
These folks are really fortunate to have witnessed space junk entering and burning up in the atmosphere.   What a priceless experience.   
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 11:44:14 AM
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mystery-fire-ball-ufo-spotted-2383390 (https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mystery-fire-ball-ufo-spotted-2383390)
At last a link with fire ball in the title.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 12:37:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge-gPIgsB9g
You can leave the sound off.
Alternatively just keep repeating "or is it a fireorb?". Works for me....
declare1

SPACE  JUNK or UFO ie Unidentified Falling Object.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 12:39:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnNXSwMxZA
Much better soundtrack, no negative waves just funky plumes...

I have witnessed this sort of stuff many times on my travels. Its an AIRPLANE.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW-MqiCAGPo
Soundtrack not so good, no funky music.

Its the US AIRFORCES AT WORK.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 12:42:48 PM
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mystery-fire-ball-ufo-spotted-2383390 (https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mystery-fire-ball-ufo-spotted-2383390)
At last a link with fire ball in the title.
Click the image to get the second photo.

This means or proves nothing.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 01:54:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoHLbQsvrg
1.50  thru to 4.10
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 02:23:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbkKAHwyj4A
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 04, 2019, 02:42:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNnb1fBUUs
I like this one.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 03:56:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoHLbQsvrg
1.50  thru to 4.10

Airplanes and natural phenomena.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 04:04:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbkKAHwyj4A

UFO burning up. Could be something thats re entered the Earths Atmosphere or something Man made that didnt leave the Earths Atmosphere.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 04, 2019, 04:07:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNnb1fBUUs
I like this one.

Airplane.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 06, 2019, 04:31:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk
2.43 - 5.09
At least 6 trails.Trails not parallel, appearance is of 3 possibly 4 closely grouped distinct sources each emitting 2 plumes.
Makes a 90degree turn with no change of appearance.No funky music.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 06, 2019, 05:54:07 AM
I like the testimonies in this link provided by Monika in another thread. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 06, 2019, 11:45:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk
2.43 - 5.09
At least 6 trails.Trails not parallel, appearance is of 3 possibly 4 closely grouped distinct sources each emitting 2 plumes.
Makes a 90degree turn with no change of appearance.No funky music.

Probably Space Junk or Meteors or whatever breaking up.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 06, 2019, 11:58:05 AM
I like the testimonies in this link provided by Monika in another thread. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1

Yes its an interesting article. And its worth studying. It may well be that some parts of the Earth are susceptible to strange and unknown or unexplainable forces.  Like the so called Bermuda Triangle. But its a difficult one to investigate because when one of these occurrences occure there is no one around with any scientific equipment that could measure or analyse what is going on. Apparently in March there will be some kind of scientific investigation at The Dyatlov Pass, but will this go any way to explaining the mysterious lights in the sky. I doubt that any lights will make themselves available for the investigation.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 06, 2019, 12:27:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk)
2.43 - 5.09
At least 6 trails.Trails not parallel, appearance is of 3 possibly 4 closely grouped distinct sources each emitting 2 plumes.
Makes a 90degree turn with no change of appearance.No funky music.

Probably Space Junk or Meteors or whatever breaking up.
Err it made a sharp left hand turn?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 06, 2019, 12:38:04 PM
I like the testimonies in this link provided by Monika in another thread. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1 (https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1)

Yes its an interesting article. And its worth studying. It may well be that some parts of the Earth are susceptible to strange and unknown or unexplainable forces.  Like the so called Bermuda Triangle. But its a difficult one to investigate because when one of these occurrences occure there is no one around with any scientific equipment that could measure or analyse what is going on. Apparently in March there will be some kind of scientific investigation at The Dyatlov Pass, but will this go any way to explaining the mysterious lights in the sky. I doubt that any lights will make themselves available for the investigation.
Introducing the M triangle :-
https://bookofresearch.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/the-molyobka-triangle-russias-bermuda-triangle-also-known-as-the-perm-anomalous-zone/
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 06, 2019, 05:58:03 PM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 06, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDS5wsl2dk)
2.43 - 5.09
At least 6 trails.Trails not parallel, appearance is of 3 possibly 4 closely grouped distinct sources each emitting 2 plumes.
Makes a 90degree turn with no change of appearance.No funky music.

Probably Space Junk or Meteors or whatever breaking up.
Err it made a sharp left hand turn?

Well actually thats possible, nothing out of the ordinary with that.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 06, 2019, 11:43:06 PM
Are these candidates for fire orbs?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 07, 2019, 12:38:14 AM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard.
Ah but mine is in the DP's backyard...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 07, 2019, 12:40:37 AM
[
Well actually thats possible, nothing out of the ordinary with that.
Feel free to educate me on how space junk/meteors traveling at thousands of mph calmly change direction by say 90 degrees...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 07, 2019, 12:45:33 AM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard.
Ah but mine is in the DP's backyard...

Except everything you show is high altitude UFO and IFO events.  Nothing that swoops down hillsides and selectively targets its victims three separate times at three separate locations.   
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 07, 2019, 12:56:00 AM
Are these candidates for fire orbs?
The "funky plumes" vid is probably a plane hidden by an opaque atmosphere (love the soundtrack and title though kewl1 ). But the others don't really fit as planes? The recurring pattern is that the plumes are ejected at an angle to the direction of travel.. The last vid had at least 3 pairs each with unique angles? This makes it highly unlikely that they're man made? The only object I can think of that copies this behaviour is a comet but these are clearly within Earth's atmosphere. Once you've excluded all the other theories the one that is left is the answer?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 07, 2019, 01:11:06 AM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard.
Ah but mine is in the DP's backyard...

Except everything you show is high altitude UFO and IFO events.  Nothing that swoops down hillsides and selectively targets its victims three separate times at three separate locations.
It is logical that high flying UFOs will get photographed more frequently. As said before the NO2/N2O theory doesn't require any swooping. They exit the tent and are prevented from returning by an acrid toxic cloud which is also imo the best explanation for Chivruay. The "fire orb theory as seriously considered by the man central to the investigation and witness to all the evidence" suggests that BL was involved in the ravine deaths either by mechanical force, by explosion and possibly including a process similar to cattle mutilation.
Further wrt to "swooping", UFO accounts regularly state that the objects have approached and followed the witness(s) sometimes with negative outcomes (the assumption being that fatal outcomes get reported less...).
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 07, 2019, 12:52:54 PM
[
Well actually thats possible, nothing out of the ordinary with that.
Feel free to educate me on how space junk/meteors traveling at thousands of mph calmly change direction by say 90 degrees...

Have you seen how missiles can go haywire. The same can apply to other missile like objects.  Such objects do not have to follow a set trajectory, they can weave all over the place.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 07, 2019, 12:56:53 PM
Are these candidates for fire orbs?

I guess they are. Problem is there is no scientific definition for FIRE ORBS.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 07, 2019, 01:00:17 PM
Are these candidates for fire orbs?
The "funky plumes" vid is probably a plane hidden by an opaque atmosphere (love the soundtrack and title though kewl1 ). But the others don't really fit as planes? The recurring pattern is that the plumes are ejected at an angle to the direction of travel.. The last vid had at least 3 pairs each with unique angles? This makes it highly unlikely that they're man made? The only object I can think of that copies this behaviour is a comet but these are clearly within Earth's atmosphere. Once you've excluded all the other theories the one that is left is the answer?

On the contrary, plumes ejected in such a way could well be from a man made object. And the old saying that you use isnt necessarily correct for all situations.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 07, 2019, 01:12:34 PM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard.
Ah but mine is in the DP's backyard...

Except everything you show is high altitude UFO and IFO events.  Nothing that swoops down hillsides and selectively targets its victims three separate times at three separate locations.
It is logical that high flying UFOs will get photographed more frequently. As said before the NO2/N2O theory doesn't require any swooping. They exit the tent and are prevented from returning by an acrid toxic cloud which is also imo the best explanation for Chivruay. The "fire orb theory as seriously considered by the man central to the investigation and witness to all the evidence" suggests that BL was involved in the ravine deaths either by mechanical force, by explosion and possibly including a process similar to cattle mutilation.
Further wrt to "swooping", UFO accounts regularly state that the objects have approached and followed the witness(s) sometimes with negative outcomes (the assumption being that fatal outcomes get reported less...).


I would have thought that low flying UFO's would be more likely to be witnessed and photographed.  Havnt we touched upon this ACRID TOXIC CLOUD before and the reason why its highly unlikely. For people to completely abandon a safe refuge and put themselves in extreme danger the thing causing this action would need to be such that it virtually scared the living daylights out of them. Poison gas was used in the Trenches in WW1 as you know. People didnt just pop up out of those Trenches and run wildly over no mans land etc.  Why ?  Because they knew they would die virtually instantly by machine gun fire, or bombs, etc. So they stayed calm despite the terrible injuries being caused by the POISON GAS. You are saying that the Dyatlov Group faced with a similar POISON GAS situation decided to PANIC  !  As for the FIRE ORBS, again, you seriously believe that Ball Lightning was involved in the Ravine deaths. And you mention possibly by a process similar to Cattle Mutilation. Scientists are still debating the Ball Lightning phenomenon, and there is nothing to suggest that whatever it is is responsible for Cattle Mutilations. How wrong can your theory be  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 08, 2019, 03:54:02 AM
Hell, I have a 'S' triangle in my backyard.
Ah but mine is in the DP's backyard...

Except everything you show is high altitude UFO and IFO events.  Nothing that swoops down hillsides and selectively targets its victims three separate times at three separate locations.
It is logical that high flying UFOs will get photographed more frequently. As said before the NO2/N2O theory doesn't require any swooping. They exit the tent and are prevented from returning by an acrid toxic cloud which is also imo the best explanation for Chivruay. The "fire orb theory as seriously considered by the man central to the investigation and witness to all the evidence" suggests that BL was involved in the ravine deaths either by mechanical force, by explosion and possibly including a process similar to cattle mutilation.
Further wrt to "swooping", UFO accounts regularly state that the objects have approached and followed the witness(s) sometimes with negative outcomes (the assumption being that fatal outcomes get reported less...).


I would have thought that low flying UFO's would be more likely to be witnessed and photographed.  Havnt we touched upon this ACRID TOXIC CLOUD before and the reason why its highly unlikely. For people to completely abandon a safe refuge and put themselves in extreme danger the thing causing this action would need to be such that it virtually scared the living daylights out of them. Poison gas was used in the Trenches in WW1 as you know. People didnt just pop up out of those Trenches and run wildly over no mans land etc.  Why ?  Because they knew they would die virtually instantly by machine gun fire, or bombs, etc. So they stayed calm despite the terrible injuries being caused by the POISON GAS. You are saying that the Dyatlov Group faced with a similar POISON GAS situation decided to PANIC  !  As for the FIRE ORBS, again, you seriously believe that Ball Lightning was involved in the Ravine deaths. And you mention possibly by a process similar to Cattle Mutilation. Scientists are still debating the Ball Lightning phenomenon, and there is nothing to suggest that whatever it is is responsible for Cattle Mutilations. How wrong can your theory be  !  ?
"machine gun fire, or bombs, etc.". Duh?  rolleyes1 rolleyes1 rolleyes1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 08, 2019, 04:01:48 AM
One for the "low flying" skeptics
(https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/photo-optimized1.jpg)


https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 08, 2019, 04:05:09 AM
One for the "low flying" skeptics
(https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/photo-optimized1.jpg)


https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/

The photo doesnt tell us much. The description given by the witnesses is better. But it still amounts to an unknown quantity.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 08, 2019, 05:36:36 AM
The photo doesnt tell us much.
I think it tells us that it's low flying...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 08, 2019, 11:08:01 AM
The photo doesnt tell us much.
I think it tells us that it's low flying...

Could be anywhere from 1  kilometre to 10  kilometres  away. Apart from that its not much help is it.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 08, 2019, 07:02:10 PM
Looks like sunlight sneaking through a gap in the clouds. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 09, 2019, 03:11:27 AM
Looks like sunlight sneaking through a gap in the clouds.
(https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/sketch-optimized.jpg)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 09, 2019, 08:11:35 AM
You can tell its dusk.....   Ever taken off in an aircraft at cloudy dusk and seen what it looks like above the clouds?

I see several smaller areas in that photo that look similar...... sunset light coming through small gaps in thin clouds.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 09, 2019, 08:23:09 AM
You can tell its dusk.....   Ever taken off in an aircraft at cloudy dusk and seen what it looks like above the clouds?

I see several smaller areas in that photo that look similar...... sunset light coming through small gaps in thin clouds.
We saw an orange light flying across the skies very slowly. It looked like that the top of it was on fire had an orange plume swaying back and forth with straight laser beam lights coming straight out the top of it. It was very strange. Here is a picture and close up. The photo was taken in Milford, Ohio in Clermont County last Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 9:35 PM. The object was heading north.
Sounds like it was moving relative to the cloud base and was underneath it, otherwise how could they observe what was happening above it?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 10, 2019, 12:22:13 AM
Sound like someone saw sunwrays and light shining through a void in the clouds that traveled at the peed of......  clouds. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 03:08:56 AM
Sound like someone saw sunwrays and light shining through a void in the clouds that traveled at the peed of......  clouds.
Nonsense.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 04:18:31 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on February 11, 2019, 04:35:54 AM
Look......   a shooting star coming straight at the viewer!!
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 11, 2019, 04:43:16 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 05:15:56 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 11, 2019, 05:44:54 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.

There are too many possible causes of nausea to establish a direct connection to the lights. If we say so for the sake of the argument, photosensitivity may even trigger seizures in certain people. That still could be a drone with a flashlight... or something else of course. The balance of probability is on the drone's side when compared to some outer space origin of that light.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 05:51:27 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.

There are too many possible causes of nausea to establish a direct connection to the lights. If we say so for the sake of the argument, photosensitivity may even trigger seizures in certain people. That still could be a drone with a flashlight... or something else of course. The balance of probability is on the drone's side when compared to some outer space origin of that light.
I'm not claiming an outer space origin. I'm claiming an electro magnetic origin. Like lightning but contained in a ball. Some people even use the term ball lightning.

Hey is that why i'm posting on a thread called.....










Wait for it......









Drum roll.










The Real Ball Lightning theory!!
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 11, 2019, 06:10:56 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.

There are too many possible causes of nausea to establish a direct connection to the lights. If we say so for the sake of the argument, photosensitivity may even trigger seizures in certain people. That still could be a drone with a flashlight... or something else of course. The balance of probability is on the drone's side when compared to some outer space origin of that light.
I'm not claiming an outer space origin. I'm claiming an electro magnetic origin. Like lightning but contained in a ball. Some people even use the term ball lightning.

Hey is that why i'm posting on a thread called.....










Wait for it......









Drum roll.










The Real Ball Lightning theory!!


Drone is still more plausible explanation for the light in the picture. I am only judging by the picture as we don't have more data. Nausea of the witness is inconclusive at best.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 08:07:30 AM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.

There are too many possible causes of nausea to establish a direct connection to the lights. If we say so for the sake of the argument, photosensitivity may even trigger seizures in certain people. That still could be a drone with a flashlight... or something else of course. The balance of probability is on the drone's side when compared to some outer space origin of that light.
I'm not claiming an outer space origin. I'm claiming an electro magnetic origin. Like lightning but contained in a ball. Some people even use the term ball lightning.

Hey is that why i'm posting on a thread called.....










Wait for it......









Drum roll.










The Real Ball Lightning theory!!


Drone is still more plausible explanation for the light in the picture. I am only judging by the picture as we don't have more data. Nausea of the witness is inconclusive at best.
Full report

A Tennessee witness at Elizabethton reported watching a large, low-flying, triangle-shaped object, according to testimony in Case 85762.

The witness began to feel light-headed and queasy just before seeing the object at 11:26 p.m. on August 8, 2017.

“We were traveling northeast when I first spotted very bright lights in the sky to our right,” the witness stated. “We pulled over facing Waffle House. It had two really bright, white lights that caught our attention on its front like headlights. It was flying very low over trees and buildings. Did not see nose of a plane. It appeared triangular. It flew diagonally to our left and behind us southwest to west. We turned around and pulled over near QP and observed as it appeared to hover over a mountain west-southwest. Noticed it wobbling. Was blinded by light after which did not see it anywhere.”

Tennessee MUFON Field Investigator Leonteen "Lonnie" Connolly closed this case as an Unknown Aerial Vehicle.

“She and her husband were driving in the Elizabethton, Tennessee, business district preparing to get gas and shop at a nearby Walmart store when the witness started to feel queasy and unsettled,” Connolly stated in his report. “She further described the feeling as much stronger than mere queasiness, but rather like standing on a moving dock on water, and then also added that she felt as though riding on a roller coaster. The couple witnessed a large triangular craft flying low just above trees at 1498 W. Elk Avenue in Elizabethton. The light was very bright, nearly blinding, so they stopped to view the craft better and described it as very large, totally silent with blinking lights that flew over their car and then toward the nearby mountain and over it.”

Then they noticed that the craft stopped.

“Just out of sight but still able to see the blinking lights, the witness noticed the craft stop and hover. She had gotten out of the car but had to brace herself on the car window to settle her disorientation.  The craft then moved on out of sight from the northwest to the southwest of her position. Her husband told her he did not recognize it as any craft he was familiar with. The witness described the distance of the craft to be approximately 200 degrees above the horizon at about 1,470 feet elevation (according to a phone app the husband was using to monitor it).

“In the supplied video, an mp4 file, I observed what appeared to be a very large, silent craft just as was described by the witness but could discern no movement due to the movement by the witness. The entire description was very similar to an earlier case I had been assigned in January of this year, MUFON case #81628. The witness described a silent, gliding, triangular craft in the same county in the city of Kingsport, Tennessee.”

Elizabethton is a city in, and the county seat of, Carter County, Tennessee, population 13,372.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 11, 2019, 09:00:56 AM
To sum up, we have witnesses who claim to have seen a flying object with bright lights, in urban-populated area, at low altitude, with (almost) no noise, hovering and wobbling. To me, the description fits a drone with high-power LED lights controlled by somebody in the area for fun. This can be easily built from stuff on ebay.

It would be more interesting if that happened in remote area but I prefer to be sceptical about this one. Let alone the connection of lights in the sky with unexplained deaths, unless they are attributed to explosives, chemical weapons, space junk etc...


Link below is an eshop with aerial LEDs for drones, there are some videos, too.
https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 09:05:42 AM
To sum up, we have witnesses who claim to have seen a flying object with bright lights, in urban-populated area, at low altitude, with (almost) no noise, hovering and wobbling. To me, the description fits a drone with high-power LED lights controlled by somebody in the area for fun. This can be easily built from stuff on ebay.

It would be more interesting if that happened in remote area but I prefer to be sceptical about this one. Let alone the connection of lights in the sky with unexplained deaths, unless they are attributed to explosives, chemical weapons, space junk etc...


Link below is an eshop with aerial LEDs for drones, there are some videos, too.
https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/ (https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/)
The light was very bright, nearly blinding, so they stopped to view the craft better and described it as very large, totally silent with blinking lights that flew over their car and then toward the nearby mountain and over it.”
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 11, 2019, 09:18:27 AM
To sum up, we have witnesses who claim to have seen a flying object with bright lights, in urban-populated area, at low altitude, with (almost) no noise, hovering and wobbling. To me, the description fits a drone with high-power LED lights controlled by somebody in the area for fun. This can be easily built from stuff on ebay.

It would be more interesting if that happened in remote area but I prefer to be sceptical about this one. Let alone the connection of lights in the sky with unexplained deaths, unless they are attributed to explosives, chemical weapons, space junk etc...


Link below is an eshop with aerial LEDs for drones, there are some videos, too.
https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/ (https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/)
The light was very bright, nearly blinding, so they stopped to view the craft better and described it as very large, totally silent with blinking lights that flew over their car and then toward the nearby mountain and over it.”

Yes, no problem with that. Fog lights for cars have standard power of 100-160W In most countries it is actually illegal to use in urban area or close to other cars in traffic because they could blind drivers going the other way. It is possible to buy a LED of 1000W of power attachable to a drone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl1xYyGom1g) It is 10 times more powerful than a standard automotive fog lights and you can find many other videos of drones equiped with powerful LEDs that most people would describe in the same manner.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 11, 2019, 09:33:00 AM
To sum up, we have witnesses who claim to have seen a flying object with bright lights, in urban-populated area, at low altitude, with (almost) no noise, hovering and wobbling. To me, the description fits a drone with high-power LED lights controlled by somebody in the area for fun. This can be easily built from stuff on ebay.

It would be more interesting if that happened in remote area but I prefer to be sceptical about this one. Let alone the connection of lights in the sky with unexplained deaths, unless they are attributed to explosives, chemical weapons, space junk etc...


Link below is an eshop with aerial LEDs for drones, there are some videos, too.
https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/ (https://www.stratusleds.com/aerial-leds/)
The light was very bright, nearly blinding, so they stopped to view the craft better and described it as very large, totally silent with blinking lights that flew over their car and then toward the nearby mountain and over it.”

Yes, no problem with that. Fog lights for cars have standard power of 100-160W In most countries it is actually illegal to use in urban area or close to other cars in traffic because they could blind drivers going the other way. It is possible to buy a LED of 1000W of power attachable to a drone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl1xYyGom1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl1xYyGom1g)) It is 10 times more powerful than a standard automotive fog lights and you can find many other videos of drones equiped with powerful LEDs that most people would describe in the same manner.
Interesting video, thanks.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 01:58:43 AM
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/748549/UFO-contrail-comet-Exmouth-Devon-Martin-Emmins(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/UFO-Trail-748549.jpg)
One of these from the front.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 02:02:04 AM
(https://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/NEP5320971.jpg)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 02:14:52 AM
It's official, fire balls are common - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3118671/Mapping-90-years-UFO-sightings-Fireballs-commonly-seen-egg-shaped-craft-rarer-Maine-hotspot.html
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 02:19:01 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/16/09/3B6F726C00000578-4039908-image-a-1_1481879375593.jpg)
Let's not say "UFO arriving at earth in a worm hole".


Instead lets say "Discharging ion stream creating a blue/violet glow from excited nitrogen" Hmm.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: gypsy on February 12, 2019, 03:04:30 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/16/09/3B6F726C00000578-4039908-image-a-1_1481879375593.jpg)
Let's not say "UFO arriving at earth in a worm hole".


Instead lets say "Discharging ion stream creating a blue/violet glow from excited nitrogen" Hmm.

Is there an example of this happening near the earth surface? I mean that the NO2 theory is fairy consistent but we need to establish a connection between the ion streams in the pictures and the poisoning of people out in the open. I think it's possible to take it from the other end a first find out the concentration level of poisonous gas to be "weaponized" a then find out what energy is required to reach that level, considering it is not in a closed chamber.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 04:13:35 AM

Is there an example of this happening near the earth surface? I mean that the NO2 theory is fairy consistent but we need to establish a connection between the ion streams in the pictures and the poisoning of people out in the open. I think it's possible to take it from the other end a first find out the concentration level of poisonous gas to be "weaponized" a then find out what energy is required to reach that level, considering it is not in a closed chamber.
Well i can post reports of "ufos" that fit the visual requirements, i can't confirm that NO2 is there, just that they look right, e.g. NO2 is orange at modest temperatures and dark brown to black at higher temps so all i can do is post photos and videos that fit :-

Posted this before -
http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2014/07/bow-hunter-captured-strange-ufo-in.html
Just found this -
https://wakonda666.blogspot.com/2018/07/very-weird-ufo-caught-over-asbyrgi.html
The pattern is of objects that are of white, orange, black colours. Black for hot NO2, orange for cooler NO2, white for water vapour.

All the "plume" photos i've posted have shown orange mixed with white. This is my favourite :-
(https://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/30080/images/shotufo.png)

Note how the plumes seem to be ejected from the "poles" as if under the control of an electric or magnetic field.


This is near the ground -
https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/ (https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/)

The Chivruay photo might be the best answer to your question :-

(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)







Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 04:48:57 AM
I struggle with the plane theory....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJWQeLWkZ4
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 12:33:39 PM
Looks like sunlight sneaking through a gap in the clouds.

      Sunset for that day was 9:01:28 pm.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 12:41:20 PM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

Orb or vehicle of some kind.  Many witnesses describe these things as vehicles of some kind  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 12:45:08 PM
https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state (https://www.mufon.com/cases-of-interest-blog/tennessee-a-top-six-ufo-sighting-state)(https://www.mufon.com/uploads/2/5/2/2/25220163/published/case-85762.jpg?1534295769)
Another low flying orb, this one is interesting because Ivanov spoke of "heat rays".

That could be a drone with a flashlight controlled by local kids.
and the witness reported feeling nauseous.

There are too many possible causes of nausea to establish a direct connection to the lights. If we say so for the sake of the argument, photosensitivity may even trigger seizures in certain people. That still could be a drone with a flashlight... or something else of course. The balance of probability is on the drone's side when compared to some outer space origin of that light.
I'm not claiming an outer space origin. I'm claiming an electro magnetic origin. Like lightning but contained in a ball. Some people even use the term ball lightning.

Hey is that why i'm posting on a thread called.....










Wait for it......









Drum roll.










The Real Ball Lightning theory!!

I cant figure out how ELECTRO MAGNETISM can transmute into a potential solid body.  Many witnesses describe seeing a vehicle of some kind and that vehicle is solid within the definition of the word SOLID.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 12:51:15 PM
It's official, fire balls are common - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3118671/Mapping-90-years-UFO-sightings-Fireballs-commonly-seen-egg-shaped-craft-rarer-Maine-hotspot.html

I wouldnt go as far as saying its OFFICIAL, because what and who represents OFFICIAL.  THE  UNITED NATIONS  !  ?  THE DAILY MAIL  !  ?  Some UFO researcher  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 12:55:37 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4039908/Out-world-Incredible-video-appears-UFO-arriving-earth-wormhole.html)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/16/09/3B6F726C00000578-4039908-image-a-1_1481879375593.jpg)
Let's not say "UFO arriving at earth in a worm hole".


Instead lets say "Discharging ion stream creating a blue/violet glow from excited nitrogen" Hmm.


Some people are saying its a FAKE. Looks like a hand appearing out of the clouds and then that light or whatever coming down.  This video tells us absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 01:05:35 PM

Is there an example of this happening near the earth surface? I mean that the NO2 theory is fairy consistent but we need to establish a connection between the ion streams in the pictures and the poisoning of people out in the open. I think it's possible to take it from the other end a first find out the concentration level of poisonous gas to be "weaponized" a then find out what energy is required to reach that level, considering it is not in a closed chamber.
Well i can post reports of "ufos" that fit the visual requirements, i can't confirm that NO2 is there, just that they look right, e.g. NO2 is orange at modest temperatures and dark brown to black at higher temps so all i can do is post photos and videos that fit :-

Posted this before -
http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2014/07/bow-hunter-captured-strange-ufo-in.html
Just found this -
https://wakonda666.blogspot.com/2018/07/very-weird-ufo-caught-over-asbyrgi.html
The pattern is of objects that are of white, orange, black colours. Black for hot NO2, orange for cooler NO2, white for water vapour.

All the "plume" photos i've posted have shown orange mixed with white. This is my favourite :-
(https://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/30080/images/shotufo.png)

Note how the plumes seem to be ejected from the "poles" as if under the control of an electric or magnetic field.


This is near the ground -
https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/ (https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/)

The Chivruay photo might be the best answer to your question :-

(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)

The CHIVRUAY photo looks distinctly like a common occurrence in old type films taken with the older type of cameras.  I used to develop and print such photos and often you would end up with the kind of thing you see in the CHIVRUAY photo.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 12, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
I struggle with the plane theory....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJWQeLWkZ4

So what are the details ! ?  Where, when, time, who took the video, with what did they take the video, etc.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 02:06:27 PM
I struggle with the plane theory....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJWQeLWkZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJWQeLWkZ4)

So what are the details ! ?  Where, when, time, who took the video, with what did they take the video, etc.
Click on the text "YouTube" in the bottom left corner an read the comments.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 12, 2019, 02:10:57 PM

Is there an example of this happening near the earth surface? I mean that the NO2 theory is fairy consistent but we need to establish a connection between the ion streams in the pictures and the poisoning of people out in the open. I think it's possible to take it from the other end a first find out the concentration level of poisonous gas to be "weaponized" a then find out what energy is required to reach that level, considering it is not in a closed chamber.
Well i can post reports of "ufos" that fit the visual requirements, i can't confirm that NO2 is there, just that they look right, e.g. NO2 is orange at modest temperatures and dark brown to black at higher temps so all i can do is post photos and videos that fit :-

Posted this before -
http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2014/07/bow-hunter-captured-strange-ufo-in.html (http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com/2014/07/bow-hunter-captured-strange-ufo-in.html)
Just found this -
https://wakonda666.blogspot.com/2018/07/very-weird-ufo-caught-over-asbyrgi.html (https://wakonda666.blogspot.com/2018/07/very-weird-ufo-caught-over-asbyrgi.html)
The pattern is of objects that are of white, orange, black colours. Black for hot NO2, orange for cooler NO2, white for water vapour.

All the "plume" photos i've posted have shown orange mixed with white. This is my favourite :-
(https://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/30080/images/shotufo.png)

Note how the plumes seem to be ejected from the "poles" as if under the control of an electric or magnetic field.


This is near the ground -
https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/ (https://www.ufosnw.com/newsite/2-see-triangular-ufo-with-orange-plume-above-it/)

The Chivruay photo might be the best answer to your question :-

(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)

The CHIVRUAY photo looks distinctly like a common occurrence in old type films taken with the older type of cameras.  I used to develop and print such photos and often you would end up with the kind of thing you see in the CHIVRUAY photo.
If the negative exists it answers the question ditto other copies?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 13, 2019, 05:38:58 AM
Wrt the Chivruay photo the wind direction was given as  W N W which would fit with the very black section of the top left corner being part of a plume from an upwind object. It wouldn't fit if this very dark section was at any of the other three corners. So you would have to argue for a 1 in 4 coincidence that the worst deterioration fits the plume theory.

N.B. it can be argued that the dark patches of snow fit the NO2 theory as cooled/condensed NO2.  I.e. all of the photo could be genuine.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 13, 2019, 08:03:13 AM
You don't need microwaves to create NO2 and hence nitric acid, simple electrical discharges will suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4
So if the high winds, strong wind sheer and snow can continually produce lots of ionisation then you can have a lightning factory, producing NO2/HNO3 and the swirling storm mixing the gas  into an acid aerosol/mist to be encountered by the group downwind.

Now the enclosed volume of the tent will offer some limited protection to the poisonous mist outside, unless you go outside to relieve yourself... So that gives an explanation for the asymmetry of exposure. YuriD dying quite early and others having a range of orange/brown colour, YuriD being substantially darker than Zinaida for instance. One witness noted in the morgue that Rustem's face seemed normal whilst Igor's had darkened.

However the acid is landing on the outside of the tent and weakening the weave, n.b. the canvas will be proofed and should not display bleaching but the wind will be forcing acidic water deeper into the weave, i.e. into the back of the fabric.... So it starts to tear and the air inside the tent is becoming more acrid. The group is starting to panic. YuriD is coughing and wheezing. Dyatlov pushes his jacket into one of the tears to try and seal it. But another opens up, more poisonous air. Strangely it's getting warm. Then there is a big "pulse" and the inside of the tent becomes intolerable, suffocating. People escape as fast as they can, no time to collect stuff they have to get away from this location to be able to breathe. Semyon and Nicolai are elsewhere on the ridge taking photos of the light show over at Kholat. They return via a different route avoiding this mist that smells strange.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 13, 2019, 12:16:47 PM
Wrt the Chivruay photo the wind direction was given as  W N W which would fit with the very black section of the top left corner being part of a plume from an upwind object. It wouldn't fit if this very dark section was at any of the other three corners. So you would have to argue for a 1 in 4 coincidence that the worst deterioration fits the plume theory.

N.B. it can be argued that the dark patches of snow fit the NO2 theory as cooled/condensed NO2.  I.e. all of the photo could be genuine.

It could still be a coincidence though.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 13, 2019, 12:27:15 PM
You don't need microwaves to create NO2 and hence nitric acid, simple electrical discharges will suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4
So if the high winds, strong wind sheer and snow can continually produce lots of ionisation then you can have a lightning factory, producing NO2/HNO3 and the swirling storm mixing the gas  into an acid aerosol/mist to be encountered by the group downwind.

Now the enclosed volume of the tent will offer some limited protection to the poisonous mist outside, unless you go outside to relieve yourself... So that gives an explanation for the asymmetry of exposure. YuriD dying quite early and others having a range of orange/brown colour, YuriD being substantially darker than Zinaida for instance. One witness noted in the morgue that Rustem's face seemed normal whilst Igor's had darkened.

However the acid is landing on the outside of the tent and weakening the weave, n.b. the canvas will be proofed and should not display bleaching but the wind will be forcing acidic water deeper into the weave, i.e. into the back of the fabric.... So it starts to tear and the air inside the tent is becoming more acrid. The group is starting to panic. YuriD is coughing and wheezing. Dyatlov pushes his jacket into one of the tears to try and seal it. But another opens up, more poisonous air. Strangely it's getting warm. Then there is a big "pulse" and the inside of the tent becomes intolerable, suffocating. People escape as fast as they can, no time to collect stuff they have to get away from this location to be able to breathe. Semyon and Nicolai are elsewhere on the ridge taking photos of the light show over at Kholat. They return via a different route avoiding this mist that smells strange.

Presumably they all walked about a mile in very severe weather conditions.  Conditions that they knew would endanger their lives if not properly equipped.  They would have had time to get their senses together and not just amble off for such a distance. So wouldnt it have been better just to stay fairly local to the TENT rather than amble off all that way.  Talk of GAS etc doesnt amount to anything if common sense is thrown out of the TENT.  Are you saying that the GAS affected them all that much that they didnt know what they were doing.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 13, 2019, 12:42:58 PM
You don't need microwaves to create NO2 and hence nitric acid, simple electrical discharges will suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4)
So if the high winds, strong wind sheer and snow can continually produce lots of ionisation then you can have a lightning factory, producing NO2/HNO3 and the swirling storm mixing the gas  into an acid aerosol/mist to be encountered by the group downwind.

Now the enclosed volume of the tent will offer some limited protection to the poisonous mist outside, unless you go outside to relieve yourself... So that gives an explanation for the asymmetry of exposure. YuriD dying quite early and others having a range of orange/brown colour, YuriD being substantially darker than Zinaida for instance. One witness noted in the morgue that Rustem's face seemed normal whilst Igor's had darkened.

However the acid is landing on the outside of the tent and weakening the weave, n.b. the canvas will be proofed and should not display bleaching but the wind will be forcing acidic water deeper into the weave, i.e. into the back of the fabric.... So it starts to tear and the air inside the tent is becoming more acrid. The group is starting to panic. YuriD is coughing and wheezing. Dyatlov pushes his jacket into one of the tears to try and seal it. But another opens up, more poisonous air. Strangely it's getting warm. Then there is a big "pulse" and the inside of the tent becomes intolerable, suffocating. People escape as fast as they can, no time to collect stuff they have to get away from this location to be able to breathe. Semyon and Nicolai are elsewhere on the ridge taking photos of the light show over at Kholat. They return via a different route avoiding this mist that smells strange.

Presumably they all walked about a mile in very severe weather conditions.  Conditions that they knew would endanger their lives if not properly equipped.  They would have had time to get their senses together and not just amble off for such a distance. So wouldnt it have been better just to stay fairly local to the TENT rather than amble off all that way.  Talk of GAS etc doesnt amount to anything if common sense is thrown out of the TENT.  Are you saying that the GAS affected them all that much that they didnt know what they were doing.

Taraaa!!!

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch14/final/c14s03.pdf
The N2O emission factor for each lightning flash is:0.14 grams N2O/flash
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 13, 2019, 01:06:48 PM
 For chronic exposure to nitrous oxide, it is recommended that the maximum exposure be 20 parts per billion (expressing a ratio between nitrous oxide and breathable air), and for acute exposures, no more than 100 parts per billion for one hour.
https://www.oxfordtreatment.com/nitrous-oxide/overdose/
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 13, 2019, 01:30:27 PM
I think the shape of the Ural mountains and Kholat is the key here rather than the geology. Strong westerly winds have little to get in their way before hitting the Urals. The wind above 1200 metres has no obstruction at all but at Kholat the westerly ridge directs the wind at ground level straight up vertically into the higher altitude horizontal winds creating enormous turbulence. With high winds at 100mph plus in a snow storm you then have excellent conditions for constant high levels of ion production. Then in 1959 with stronger geo magnetism this ionisation creates quite a light show (probably including fire orbs and plane1 and plane2). But the important bit is the constant or possibly just regular discharging. Note it doesn't have to be cloud to ground, it could be cloud to cloud. But it's producing N2O and NO2 and nitric acid and they just camped downwind - in the wrong place at the wrong time. It may be that these gases and aerosols are ionised and attracted to the tent which is an earth point in an otherwise well insulated hillside in a metre of snow. So any of the relevant molecues that hit the tent stick to it building up levels of exposure.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 13, 2019, 03:35:30 PM
At the temperatures on the mountain NO2 would be close to if not a frozen powdery dust.  It would only become reactive and corrosive on contact with something warmer.  The inside of the tent would be somewhat warmer, and certainly if it got on heir skin, eyes or in their lungs where it turn back to corrosive toxic gas.

I think it is parts per million that is toxic rather than parts per billion.

There still not enough evidence though.  Yellow skin, one potential Edema.  It's not enough.  Where is the toxicology report?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 14, 2019, 01:17:17 AM
At the temperatures on the mountain NO2 would be close to if not a frozen powdery dust.  It would only become reactive and corrosive on contact with something warmer.  The inside of the tent would be somewhat warmer, and certainly if it got on heir skin, eyes or in their lungs where it turn back to corrosive toxic gas.The lightning (arcing?) would warm things up and also convert snow / water vapour into steam to condense as a mist/aerosol containing dissolved no2 converting to nitric acid. So i don't see the cold as an issue.

I think it is parts per million that is toxic rather than parts per billion.

There still not enough evidence though.  Yellow skin, one potential Edema.  It's not enough.  Where is the toxicology report?You've missed out enlarged aortas. Nitrogen oxides occur naturally in the body, nitric oxide is essential to life and indeed sex (viagra) and can decompose into NO2 so i think this could be a challenge for modern toxicology never mind 1959.'s The pathologist noted foam in YuriD's lungs. The best chance perhaps would be to analyse the skin. But it seems the main nitric acid / keratin reaction occurred after the autopsies and any discoloration during them wasn't identified or confused with decomposition or contamination in the field perhaps.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 14, 2019, 12:25:40 PM
You don't need microwaves to create NO2 and hence nitric acid, simple electrical discharges will suffice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4)
So if the high winds, strong wind sheer and snow can continually produce lots of ionisation then you can have a lightning factory, producing NO2/HNO3 and the swirling storm mixing the gas  into an acid aerosol/mist to be encountered by the group downwind.

Now the enclosed volume of the tent will offer some limited protection to the poisonous mist outside, unless you go outside to relieve yourself... So that gives an explanation for the asymmetry of exposure. YuriD dying quite early and others having a range of orange/brown colour, YuriD being substantially darker than Zinaida for instance. One witness noted in the morgue that Rustem's face seemed normal whilst Igor's had darkened.

However the acid is landing on the outside of the tent and weakening the weave, n.b. the canvas will be proofed and should not display bleaching but the wind will be forcing acidic water deeper into the weave, i.e. into the back of the fabric.... So it starts to tear and the air inside the tent is becoming more acrid. The group is starting to panic. YuriD is coughing and wheezing. Dyatlov pushes his jacket into one of the tears to try and seal it. But another opens up, more poisonous air. Strangely it's getting warm. Then there is a big "pulse" and the inside of the tent becomes intolerable, suffocating. People escape as fast as they can, no time to collect stuff they have to get away from this location to be able to breathe. Semyon and Nicolai are elsewhere on the ridge taking photos of the light show over at Kholat. They return via a different route avoiding this mist that smells strange.

Presumably they all walked about a mile in very severe weather conditions.  Conditions that they knew would endanger their lives if not properly equipped.  They would have had time to get their senses together and not just amble off for such a distance. So wouldnt it have been better just to stay fairly local to the TENT rather than amble off all that way.  Talk of GAS etc doesnt amount to anything if common sense is thrown out of the TENT.  Are you saying that the GAS affected them all that much that they didnt know what they were doing.

Taraaa!!!

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch14/final/c14s03.pdf
The N2O emission factor for each lightning flash is:0.14 grams N2O/flash

Presumably that means YES. Yes you are suggesting that the GAS affected them all, and as a result they didnt know what they were doing. I think most people would disagree with you on this when they have read the whole of the story. They did know what they were doing.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 14, 2019, 12:27:13 PM
For chronic exposure to nitrous oxide, it is recommended that the maximum exposure be 20 parts per billion (expressing a ratio between nitrous oxide and breathable air), and for acute exposures, no more than 100 parts per billion for one hour.
https://www.oxfordtreatment.com/nitrous-oxide/overdose/

Irrelevant information because it proves nothing, and doesnt explain how the injuries came about, etc.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 14, 2019, 12:30:22 PM
I think the shape of the Ural mountains and Kholat is the key here rather than the geology. Strong westerly winds have little to get in their way before hitting the Urals. The wind above 1200 metres has no obstruction at all but at Kholat the westerly ridge directs the wind at ground level straight up vertically into the higher altitude horizontal winds creating enormous turbulence. With high winds at 100mph plus in a snow storm you then have excellent conditions for constant high levels of ion production. Then in 1959 with stronger geo magnetism this ionisation creates quite a light show (probably including fire orbs and plane1 and plane2). But the important bit is the constant or possibly just regular discharging. Note it doesn't have to be cloud to ground, it could be cloud to cloud. But it's producing N2O and NO2 and nitric acid and they just camped downwind - in the wrong place at the wrong time. It may be that these gases and aerosols are ionised and attracted to the tent which is an earth point in an otherwise well insulated hillside in a metre of snow. So any of the relevant molecues that hit the tent stick to it building up levels of exposure.

Plenty of places in the World where these types of conditions occur, and plenty of potential earth points, but no phenomenon reported  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 14, 2019, 12:35:42 PM
At the temperatures on the mountain NO2 would be close to if not a frozen powdery dust.  It would only become reactive and corrosive on contact with something warmer.  The inside of the tent would be somewhat warmer, and certainly if it got on heir skin, eyes or in their lungs where it turn back to corrosive toxic gas.The lightning (arcing?) would warm things up and also convert snow / water vapour into steam to condense as a mist/aerosol containing dissolved no2 converting to nitric acid. So i don't see the cold as an issue.

I think it is parts per million that is toxic rather than parts per billion.

There still not enough evidence though.  Yellow skin, one potential Edema.  It's not enough.  Where is the toxicology report?You've missed out enlarged aortas. Nitrogen oxides occur naturally in the body, nitric oxide is essential to life and indeed sex (viagra) and can decompose into NO2 so i think this could be a challenge for modern toxicology never mind 1959.'s The pathologist noted foam in YuriD's lungs. The best chance perhaps would be to analyse the skin. But it seems the main nitric acid / keratin reaction occurred after the autopsies and any discoloration during them wasn't identified or confused with decomposition or contamination in the field perhaps.

The lightning (arcing?) would warm things up and also convert snow / water vapour into steam to condense as a mist/aerosol containing dissolved no2 converting to nitric acid. So i don't see the cold as an issue.

The lightning would warm things up  !  ?  Hardly a scientific explanation is it. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 14, 2019, 12:49:43 PM
At the temperatures on the mountain NO2 would be close to if not a frozen powdery dust.  It would only become reactive and corrosive on contact with something warmer.  The inside of the tent would be somewhat warmer, and certainly if it got on heir skin, eyes or in their lungs where it turn back to corrosive toxic gas.The lightning (arcing?) would warm things up and also convert snow / water vapour into steam to condense as a mist/aerosol containing dissolved no2 converting to nitric acid. So i don't see the cold as an issue.

I think it is parts per million that is toxic rather than parts per billion.

There still not enough evidence though.  Yellow skin, one potential Edema.  It's not enough.  Where is the toxicology report?You've missed out enlarged aortas. Nitrogen oxides occur naturally in the body, nitric oxide is essential to life and indeed sex (viagra) and can decompose into NO2 so i think this could be a challenge for modern toxicology never mind 1959.'s The pathologist noted foam in YuriD's lungs. The best chance perhaps would be to analyse the skin. But it seems the main nitric acid / keratin reaction occurred after the autopsies and any discoloration during them wasn't identified or confused with decomposition or contamination in the field perhaps.

The cold isn't an issue.  Will have to think about residual evidence after 60 years.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 19, 2019, 02:54:29 AM
Russian fire orbs - https://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/580230/VIDEO-Bizarre-hovering-UFO-lights-REAL-DEAL-alien-chasers
Interesting whistling sound in the background.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 19, 2019, 01:01:16 PM
Russian fire orbs - https://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/580230/VIDEO-Bizarre-hovering-UFO-lights-REAL-DEAL-alien-chasers
Interesting whistling sound in the background.

Fascinating. Hard to say what is going on there, looks like half a dozen or so orb like objects.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 23, 2019, 03:18:29 AM
From memory we haven't discussed this before on this site, n.b. it's gruesome. - https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2012/06/death-from-above-part-one-the-horrible-melting-man/
Strong resonance with the DPI and Ivanov's fireorbs, "Those speaking with Filho noticed that his exposed flesh began to look like what one eyewitness referred to as “meat that has been allowed to boil for a while.”". Remember the nine mansi hunters?

Heat rays, golden orbs and a victim who survived long enough to relate the event.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 23, 2019, 11:47:29 AM
From memory we haven't discussed this before on this site, n.b. it's gruesome. - https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2012/06/death-from-above-part-one-the-horrible-melting-man/
Strong resonance with the DPI and Ivanov's fireorbs, "Those speaking with Filho noticed that his exposed flesh began to look like what one eyewitness referred to as “meat that has been allowed to boil for a while.”". Remember the nine mansi hunters?

Heat rays, golden orbs and a victim who survived long enough to relate the event.


Good post. I read about this story not that long ago while searching the WWW for any similarities with the Dyatlov Incident.
It just goes to show why we are finding out things these days that were not known to the general public before the Internet was born. The Internet will go down as one of the greatest inventions of all time.
Any way ;and I post this little bit from that article ;

''One of the most intriguing theories regarding the fate of Mr. Filho comes to us from Dr. Luiz Braga who, while investigating the incident years after the fact, came to the conclusion that Filho’s bizarre burns — in which the radiation had an effect on living cells, but not the lifeless ones, such as hair and clothing — were similar to: “…the indirect effects of a nuclear explosion, as occurred with certain victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”

Could a BEAM of some kind have been responsible for some of those unusual injuries on some of the Dyatlov bodies  !  ?  Radiation traces were found, we know that.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 24, 2019, 03:25:08 AM
From memory we haven't discussed this before on this site, n.b. it's gruesome. - https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2012/06/death-from-above-part-one-the-horrible-melting-man/ (https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2012/06/death-from-above-part-one-the-horrible-melting-man/)
Strong resonance with the DPI and Ivanov's fireorbs, "Those speaking with Filho noticed that his exposed flesh began to look like what one eyewitness referred to as “meat that has been allowed to boil for a while.”". Remember the nine mansi hunters?

Heat rays, golden orbs and a victim who survived long enough to relate the event.


Good post. I read about this story not that long ago while searching the WWW for any similarities with the Dyatlov Incident.
It just goes to show why we are finding out things these days that were not known to the general public before the Internet was born. The Internet will go down as one of the greatest inventions of all time.
Any way ;and I post this little bit from that article ;

''One of the most intriguing theories regarding the fate of Mr. Filho comes to us from Dr. Luiz Braga who, while investigating the incident years after the fact, came to the conclusion that Filho’s bizarre burns — in which the radiation had an effect on living cells, but not the lifeless ones, such as hair and clothing — were similar to: “…the indirect effects of a nuclear explosion, as occurred with certain victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”

Could a BEAM of some kind have been responsible for some of those unusual injuries on some of the Dyatlov bodies  !  ?  Radiation traces were found, we know that.
Yes the discussions on this forum are entirely a consequence of the internet empowering dispersed groups of people with a similar interest.

Back to your point.
I'm not aware of any radiation trace above background levels? The asymmetry of the burning (skin vs hair and fibres) fits electro magnetic radiation imo, Have you ever got sunburn on your face? Did your hair suffer?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 24, 2019, 03:36:04 AM
I'd add that if you construct a theory that there are electro magnetic objects (thankfully rare) that are responsible for this event, cattle mutilations and the human mutilation case in Brazil (and possibly Lyudmila's injuries) then all you need to explain the various patterns of injuries is to adjust the frequency of the radiation. Higher frequencies would cause this mans injuries, lower frequencies would penetrate deeper.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 24, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
It's possible this Filo chap was exposed to some freak astronomical event.  A highly columnated focused beam of x-ray or gamma radiation.  A gamma ray burst.  Difficult to say why it would be that localised and intense though.  Very strange.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 25, 2019, 04:49:56 AM
It's possible this Filo chap was exposed to some freak astronomical event.  A highly columnated focused beam of x-ray or gamma radiation.  A gamma ray burst.  Difficult to say why it would be that localised and intense though.  Very strange.


One possibility (other than BL) is the sun emitting some very high energy localised  pulse. But I'd opt for BL due to the reports of boitata and orbs. I'm not sure of it needing higher frequencies like gamma rays just much stronger UV perhaps.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 25, 2019, 06:32:05 AM
Thinking further X-rays would fit better. Lightning produces positrons which annihilate into X-rays so there's a possible theory from conventional physics.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 25, 2019, 08:29:26 AM

Support for the solar theory.

http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1947MNRAS.107..103N&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Star man on February 25, 2019, 08:43:22 AM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 12:57:33 PM
I'd add that if you construct a theory that there are electro magnetic objects (thankfully rare) that are responsible for this event, cattle mutilations and the human mutilation case in Brazil (and possibly Lyudmila's injuries) then all you need to explain the various patterns of injuries is to adjust the frequency of the radiation. Higher frequencies would cause this mans injuries, lower frequencies would penetrate deeper.


Well a BEAM of some kind is a possibility. But what kind of Beam is another matter, and MATTER may be the operative word. When I was an Apprentice Instrument Mechanic I asked an Electrician WHAT EXACTLY IS ELECTRICITY ? Sounds a fairly basic question doesnt it. He said I DONT KNOW, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. And I have pondered that many times. Well not even the super duper Physicists at CERN can answer that question. So many of the things and words we use can not really be explained fully.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 01:03:06 PM
It's possible this Filo chap was exposed to some freak astronomical event.  A highly columnated focused beam of x-ray or gamma radiation.  A gamma ray burst.  Difficult to say why it would be that localised and intense though.  Very strange.

In which case it is highly unlikely to apply to the Dyatlov Incident. Unless the freak astronomical event started at the Tent and followed the Group for maybe several hours  !  ?  Highly unlikely.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 01:38:42 PM
Thinking further X-rays would fit better. Lightning produces positrons which annihilate into X-rays so there's a possible theory from conventional physics.

But would this be able to explain the Dyatlov Incident   !  ?   Terrestrial gamma-ray flashes (TGFs) are a very interesting phenomenon but there is no evidence of them having caused injury or damage to people.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 01:41:00 PM

Support for the solar theory.

http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1947MNRAS.107..103N&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

But does this go any way to answering the Dyatlov Incident questions  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 01:44:42 PM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 25, 2019, 02:15:34 PM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.
Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 25, 2019, 03:42:15 PM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.
Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  / 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 26, 2019, 12:43:19 AM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.
Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  /
Yuri K had a badly burnt leg and Yuri D's (assumed) edema has several explanations including electrocution. Lyudmila's injuries have several explanations including being consistent with cattle mutilations the explanations of which include atmospheric electricity.

This is what Ivanov said in his interview - "When later in May Ye.P.Maslennikov and I examined the scene of the incident, we noted that some young spruces at the edge of the forest had traces of burning, but their location was neither concentric nor otherwise systematic. There was no epicentre either. That was one more proof of directional nature of, say, a thermal ray or some unknown, at least to us, energy of selective action: no traces of melt in snow, no damaged trees were noted either. We got an impression that after tourists had walked on foot over five hundred metres down the slope, someone had dealt with a few of them in a directional way.""I had a clear understanding in what sequence and who were dying, this information was the result of thorough examination of the bodies, their clothes, and other data. Only the sky was left, with all its contents and an unfathomable energy that had turned out to be beyond human strength."
McCloskey, Keith. Journey to Dyatlov Pass: An Explanation of the Mystery (p. 141). Keith McCloskey. Kindle Edition.
This guy is makig sense imo, but i favour less involvement with the ground and more with the atmosphere, imo the source of the electricity is derived from the profile of the Urals interrupting large snow storms from a westerly direction. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1

The nine people have perished because of an large scale electrical [/font][/i][/color]
process that occurs naturally in this region which is very different[/font][/i][/color]
than the classical cloud-to-ground lightning and similar in some[/font][/i][/color]
way [/font][/i]with corona electrical discharging or with ball lightning.[/font][/color]
[/color]
[/color]
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 26, 2019, 12:09:09 PM
It’s a very strange and unfortunate occurrence.  Could be solar I suppose. BL ?  Who knows.   nea1

Well its certainly very strange but it doesnt really go any where near explaining the Dyatlov Incident.  There is no evidence of Solar phenomenon or Ball Lightning phenomenon injuring people like some of the Dyatlov Group.
Yuri K's leg would be a fit for a directed heat ray. Or it was the fire.

Well maybe but I think we would all like a bit more substance by way of connecting an HEAT RAY or whatever and any particular injury. I mean how can we LINK some electrical type of event with a particular bodily injury on any of the Dyatlov Group  1  /
Yuri K had a badly burnt leg and Yuri D's (assumed) edema has several explanations including electrocution. Lyudmila's injuries have several explanations including being consistent with cattle mutilations the explanations of which include atmospheric electricity.

This is what Ivanov said in his interview - "When later in May Ye.P.Maslennikov and I examined the scene of the incident, we noted that some young spruces at the edge of the forest had traces of burning, but their location was neither concentric nor otherwise systematic. There was no epicentre either. That was one more proof of directional nature of, say, a thermal ray or some unknown, at least to us, energy of selective action: no traces of melt in snow, no damaged trees were noted either. We got an impression that after tourists had walked on foot over five hundred metres down the slope, someone had dealt with a few of them in a directional way.""I had a clear understanding in what sequence and who were dying, this information was the result of thorough examination of the bodies, their clothes, and other data. Only the sky was left, with all its contents and an unfathomable energy that had turned out to be beyond human strength."
This guy is makig sense imo, but i favour less involvement with the ground and more with the atmosphere, imo the source of the electricity is derived from the profile of the Urals interrupting large snow storms from a westerly direction. - https://sites.google.com/site/mezoelectric/dyatlov-pass-incident-1

The nine people have perished because of an large scale electrical [/font][/i][/color]
process that occurs naturally in this region which is very different[/font][/i][/color]
than the classical cloud-to-ground lightning and similar in some[/font][/i][/color]
way [/font][/i]with corona electrical discharging or with ball lightning.[/font][/color]
[/color]
[/color]

Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 26, 2019, 12:41:46 PM
Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ?
Well the legend of the nine mansi hunters is another event? Also 1958 is recorded as THE record year for sunspots (and hence geomagnetic activity) for the last 400 years which is possibly relevant. If that level of geomagnetic energy and fierce snow storms are required then they'll be infrequent. Less infrequent will be the occasional orb of course.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on February 26, 2019, 04:12:36 PM
Yes its true that some of the injuries to some of the Dyatlov group could have been the result of some kind of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENON. But surely if the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise is as you say the result of a large scale electrical process that occurs naturally in this area, then why have there never been any similar events over hundreds of years  !  ?
Well the legend of the nine mansi hunters is another event? Also 1958 is recorded as THE record year for sunspots (and hence geomagnetic activity) for the last 400 years which is possibly relevant. If that level of geomagnetic energy and fierce snow storms are required then they'll be infrequent. Less infrequent will be the occasional orb of course.

I thought you would mention the Mansi legend. There doesnt appear to be any real evidence that 9 Mansi died in the area. It is as you say, a LEGEND. Interesting about the SUNSPOT activity though. I notice that the years 1956 to 1960 were fairly high. Also they were fairly high 2000 to 2002 when Yuri Yakimov had his experience. Coincidence ! ? But as you must know Sunspot activity research is very much a work in progress and its really only the beginning. Its just one of many disciplines in this particular area of science. I dont see anything jumping out at me and saying CONNECTION with the Dyatlov Incident.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on February 27, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
I thought you would mention the Mansi legend. There doesnt appear to be any real evidence that 9 Mansi died in the area. It is as you say, a LEGEND. Interesting about the SUNSPOT activity though. I notice that the years 1956 to 1960 were fairly high. Also they were fairly high 2000 to 2002 when Yuri Yakimov had his experience. Coincidence ! ? But as you must know Sunspot activity research is very much a work in progress and its really only the beginning. Its just one of many disciplines in this particular area of science. I dont see anything jumping out at me and saying CONNECTION with the Dyatlov Incident.
Legends are the only historical record that the mansi have. It could just be a story, but it's a curious detail - "as if boiled alive" which gives it credibility imo. Sunspots are one area of interest the other is underground. Who knows what transient forces could be operating down there. Both Tunguska and Libyan desert glass are as a result of immense energies that have no easy explanation. Google "electric universe" for some fun stuff and interesting questions.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 07, 2019, 02:57:40 AM
French fire orbs - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222642/Footage-shows-illuminated-UFO-hovering-French-town.html
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: GeneralFailure on March 07, 2019, 03:45:03 AM
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....


Quote
In photography and optics, vignetting (/vɪnˈjɛtɪŋ/, UK also /vɪˈnɛt-/; French: vignette) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 07, 2019, 05:54:55 AM
Hi. I don't see the case for vignetting. Imo it's 50/50 ageing or there really was a black cloud of NO2 blowing from the WNW that was soon to kill most of them leaving exposed skin bright yellow. The black cloud maybe looking like this :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi4QNFXu-c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqi4QNFXu-c)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 07, 2019, 06:19:44 AM
This is a lovely clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5EmPDRkjI
My theory would be that this is an incandescent orb generated from an ion stream travelling downwards. The blue violet layer being nitrogen excited by the electrons as they close in and concentrate. Why only a horizontal layer before the excitation stops i don't know. Then the orb is weakly emitting hot NO2 "at it's poles" which immediately cools below +20C and is lost as a vapour/liquid.
Or it's just some CGI of course.  kewl1
Cool little object.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: GeneralFailure on March 07, 2019, 06:52:53 AM
Can be a finger in front of the lens, happens sometimes to me when shooting with the phone :)

Also your "black cloud" appears here:
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-03.jpg)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 07, 2019, 07:11:45 AM
Definitely not a vignette there  kewl1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 07, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
French fire orbs - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222642/Footage-shows-illuminated-UFO-hovering-French-town.html

Interesting. Hard to say what it could be. Some have suggested it was fires on an hillside. Must have been a big hill then. I think most hills in Normandy are not much more than a thousand feet. And what was the name of the Town.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 07, 2019, 12:23:44 PM
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....


Quote
In photography and optics, vignetting (/vɪnˈjɛtɪŋ/, UK also /vɪˈnɛt-/; French: vignette) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation toward the periphery compared to the image center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting)

Well put. This is the kind of thing I was getting at ages ago. Old Cameras and film in particular were vulnerable to this kind of thing, I know, I used such equipment from the 1950's 60;s.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 07, 2019, 12:29:25 PM
This is a lovely clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5EmPDRkjI
My theory would be that this is an incandescent orb generated from an ion stream travelling downwards. The blue violet layer being nitrogen excited by the electrons as they close in and concentrate. Why only a horizontal layer before the excitation stops i don't know. Then the orb is weakly emitting hot NO2 "at it's poles" which immediately cools below +20C and is lost as a vapour/liquid.
Or it's just some CGI of course.  kewl1
Cool little object.

Doesnt look look like your classic Orb though. Looks solid as well.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 07, 2019, 12:38:24 PM
Can be a finger in front of the lens, happens sometimes to me when shooting with the phone :)

Also your "black cloud" appears here:
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-03.jpg)


It could also be due to a FILM PROCESSING ERROR. I used to do my own DEVELOPING and ENLARGING etc, and I often came across this problem. If I made a mistake with the processing chemicals for instance or just left the film in the solution for the wrong amount of time. So I rule out Nigels theory completely.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 15, 2019, 04:02:20 PM

Good paper from the :-U.S. Department of Energy
Office of Scientific and Technical Information
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768 (https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768)

It considers the Fitzgerald event of 1868. - http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm (http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm)
Note the mass calculations.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 15, 2019, 08:43:18 PM
Fitzgerald.....   big clanky ship that goes down in the worst storm of the century in 1975. 

Must be ball lightening.     lol1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 16, 2019, 06:59:10 AM
Fitzgerald.....   big clanky ship that goes down in the worst storm of the century in 1975. 

Must be ball lightening.     lol1
No probably a rogue wave.
It's spelt ball lightning.


Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 16, 2019, 07:38:58 PM
Ouch...   auto type made you hurt my one feeling.    cry2

Its spelled 'spelled'.     bigjoke
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 17, 2019, 03:14:12 AM
Ouch...   auto type made you hurt my one feeling.    cry2

Its spelled 'spelled'.     bigjoke
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/spelled-spelt/  (https://www.grammarly.com/blog/spelled-spelt/)

Spelt - Proper English English.

Spelled - inferior american english...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on March 17, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Did you not see the laughing smiley?   Your not teaching me anything I dont already know.  Do I need to lock this topic for going off the rails? 

BTW.   Sometimes things are improved upon whether you like to admit it or not. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 17, 2019, 06:29:12 AM
Did you not see the laughing smiley?   Your not teaching me anything I dont already know.  Do I need to lock this topic for going off the rails? 

BTW.   Sometimes things are improved upon whether you like to admit it or not.
"Going off the rails".
and whose fault would that be?
Hint - "big clanky ship".
If you lock the "Real Ball Lightning theory" all that would be left is some nonsense in the other one...

quiet1 quiet1 quiet1 quiet1
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 18, 2019, 02:20:31 PM

Good paper from the :-U.S. Department of Energy
Office of Scientific and Technical Information
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768 (https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1107768)

It considers the Fitzgerald event of 1868. - http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm (http://www.kc4cop.bizland.com/first_installment_extreme_ball_lightning.htm)
Note the mass calculations.


Nice interesting Post.  It all helps the cause.  ''Extreme Ball Lightning: New Physics,
New Energy Source, or Just Great Fun.''   ''No radiation sickness indicates ball
lightning does not emit ionizing radiation''. 

''Curious Phenomenon In Venezuela
Cowgill, Warner; Scientific American, 55:389, December 18, 1886
During the night of the 24th of October last, which was rainy and tempestuous, a family of nine
persons, sleeping in a hut a few leagues from Maracaibo, were awakened by a loud humming noise and
a vivid, dazzling light, which brilliantly illuminated the interior of the house. The occupants, completely
terror stricken, and believing, as they relate, that the end of the world had come, threw themselves on
their knees and commenced to pray, but their devotions were almost immediately interrupted by violent
vomitings, and extensive swellings commenced to appear in the upper part of their bodies, this being
particularly noticeable about the face and lips. It is to be noted that the brilliant light was not accompanied
by a sensation of heat, although there was a smoky appearance and a peculiar smell.
The next morning the swellings had subsided, leaving upon the face and body large black blotches. No
special pain was felt until the ninth day, when the skin peeled off, and these blotches were transformed
into virulent raw sores. The hairs of the head fell off upon the side which happened to be underneath
when the phenomenon occurred, the same side of the body being, in all nine cases, the more seriously
injured.
The remarkable part of the occurrence is that the house was uninjured, all doors and windows being
closed at the time. No trace of lightning could afterward be observed in any part of the building, and all
the sufferers unite in saying that there was no detonation, but only the loud humming already mentioned.
Another curious attendant circumstance is that the trees around the house showed no signs of injury
until the ninth day, when they suddenly withered, almost simultaneously with the development of the
sores upon the bodies of the occupants of the house. This is perhaps a mere coincidence, but it is
remarkable that the same susceptibility to electrical effects, with the same lapse of time, should be
observed in both animal and vegetable organisms.
I have visited the sufferers, who are now in one of the hospitals of this city; and although their
appearance is truly horrible, yet it is hoped that in no case will the injuries prove fatal.<End of Sci. Amer.
article''

Certainly some aspects of this Paper that are worth looking at in more detail.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 19, 2019, 05:36:58 AM
That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 19, 2019, 12:26:06 PM
That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 19, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 (https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191) for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.
The drought wont be relevant. Perhaps the heat that caused it. More important will be the terrain i would expect it to be flat farmland.
Here's a stated victim of the face scratcher, see any resemblance to the DPI?
 (https://i.ibb.co/yB5Cw3p/muhnochwa-020902.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 20, 2019, 07:21:52 AM
The theory being that electrically we're no different to a hot dog  whacky1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Knz4aAjDlY
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 22, 2019, 12:24:03 PM
That all seems consistent with ball lightning phenomena, the smoke and smell probably being NO2/O3 but not sufficiently concentrated to cause respiratory problems. A couple of interesting facets wrt the DPI are the white hair and the facial sores, both of which some members of the group exhibited. It's been my view for some time that the facial "combat injuries" are probably from microwave radiation. (weaker than in this Venezuela case). Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show her sores after cleanup. In India they have the "munochwa" = "face scratcher" see - https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191 (https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1191) for a discussion. All electro magnetism of course.

Yes there do appear to be possible similarities with some of the Dyatlov group injuries. There must be many incidents from around the World over time that have never been reported or recorded. Maybe involving just one or two people. And maybe some of those people didnt survive to tell the story !  ?  Interesting story about the ''Face Scratcher''. But the mention of DROUGHT conditions playing a part needs to be considered carefully because similar incidents involving these mystery lights may have occurred where there was no drought , etc.
The drought wont be relevant. Perhaps the heat that caused it. More important will be the terrain i would expect it to be flat farmland.
Here's a stated victim of the face scratcher, see any resemblance to the DPI?
 (https://i.ibb.co/yB5Cw3p/muhnochwa-020902.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

I dont see any particular resemblance to any injuries on the bodies of the Dyatlov Group.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 22, 2019, 12:31:45 PM
The theory being that electrically we're no different to a hot dog  whacky1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Knz4aAjDlY

Well we all know what Electricity can do to the human body. Thats just one example you gave of many ways to FRY a piece of meat.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on March 27, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on March 27, 2019, 01:44:54 PM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html

The Internet is indeed full of this type of story. Lights in the Sky with Beams coming down to Earth etc. Any of us need only Google UFO Fire Orbs etc and see the stories come down the line.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 06, 2019, 10:54:40 AM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html)
The Internet is indeed full of this type of story. Lights in the Sky with Beams coming down to Earth etc. Any of us need only Google UFO Fire Orbs etc and see the stories come down the line.
Not many with heat rays that burn four inch holes in railway sleepers (for our international audience "sleepers" are the wooden beams that support the metal rails). The eye witness isn't describing electrical discharges that might look like lightning, but beams of light carrying intense heat.

Here's a nice youtube vid of two distinct types of the phenomena - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA
First some black plumes, imo these are a good candidate for Chivruay and possibly the DPI.
Then a nice display of fire orbs.


Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 06, 2019, 12:33:41 PM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html)
The Internet is indeed full of this type of story. Lights in the Sky with Beams coming down to Earth etc. Any of us need only Google UFO Fire Orbs etc and see the stories come down the line.
Not many with heat rays that burn four inch holes in railway sleepers (for our international audience "sleepers" are the wooden beams that support the metal rails). The eye witness isn't describing electrical discharges that might look like lightning, but beams of light carrying intense heat.

Here's a nice youtube vid of two distinct types of the phenomena - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA
First some black plumes, imo these are a good candidate for Chivruay and possibly the DPI.
Then a nice display of fire orbs.

The one video looks like an airplane at high altitude. The last video looks like someone is flying model aircraft.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 07, 2019, 05:56:12 AM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html)
The Internet is indeed full of this type of story. Lights in the Sky with Beams coming down to Earth etc. Any of us need only Google UFO Fire Orbs etc and see the stories come down the line.
Not many with heat rays that burn four inch holes in railway sleepers (for our international audience "sleepers" are the wooden beams that support the metal rails). The eye witness isn't describing electrical discharges that might look like lightning, but beams of light carrying intense heat.

Here's a nice youtube vid of two distinct types of the phenomena - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA)
First some black plumes, imo these are a good candidate for Chivruay and possibly the DPI.
Then a nice display of fire orbs.

The one video looks like an airplane at high altitude. The last video looks like someone is flying model aircraft.
The plume from 48 seconds is the interesting one because it is so low and the camera is upwind. No airplane at high altitude...
Model aircraft don't change colour and shape. CGI maybe, model aircraft no.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 08, 2019, 10:16:06 AM
I came across this today.
As long term posters on the forum will know, not everyone is onboard with me concerning Ivanov's fire orbs. So i use this thread to build the case that these things are real and in the era of smartphones and the internet the evidence is building. This report goes back to 1996 so is only a newspaper clipping but what is of interest is that it exactly describes Ivanov's fire orbs with heat rays.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039915/UFO-files-bright-yellow-light-fired-laser-beams-at-ground.html)
The Internet is indeed full of this type of story. Lights in the Sky with Beams coming down to Earth etc. Any of us need only Google UFO Fire Orbs etc and see the stories come down the line.
Not many with heat rays that burn four inch holes in railway sleepers (for our international audience "sleepers" are the wooden beams that support the metal rails). The eye witness isn't describing electrical discharges that might look like lightning, but beams of light carrying intense heat.

Here's a nice youtube vid of two distinct types of the phenomena - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6Oy9oE-NA)
First some black plumes, imo these are a good candidate for Chivruay and possibly the DPI.
Then a nice display of fire orbs.

The one video looks like an airplane at high altitude. The last video looks like someone is flying model aircraft.
The plume from 48 seconds is the interesting one because it is so low and the camera is upwind. No airplane at high altitude...
Model aircraft don't change colour and shape. CGI maybe, model aircraft no.

The plume is probably from an airplane. Those shapes look like the way model aircraft behave. They are lit up which explains the colours.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 08, 2019, 10:47:21 AM

The plume is probably from an airplane. Those shapes look like the way model aircraft behave. They are lit up which explains the colours.
For the 48secs sectiond, the "airplane" isn't moving? So either it's very far away and that is the biggest contrail ever in recorded history or it's a closer stationery object emitting a plume that is carried downwind.
Actually playing from 58secs you can see the plume "wiggle"? Contrails don't do that?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 08, 2019, 02:18:35 PM

The plume is probably from an airplane. Those shapes look like the way model aircraft behave. They are lit up which explains the colours.
For the 48secs sectiond, the "airplane" isn't moving? So either it's very far away and that is the biggest contrail ever in recorded history or it's a closer stationery object emitting a plume that is carried downwind.
Actually playing from 58secs you can see the plume "wiggle"? Contrails don't do that?

I have seen similar in the sky that does seem to behave in a similar way to what you have presented. Its just my take on this thats all.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 09, 2019, 02:14:20 PM
Check out this interesting site.

https://www.lightningmaps.org/?lang=en#m=oss;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=0.00;ts=0;tsc=1;z=2;y=62.4311;x=34.6289;d=9;dl=9;dc=1;
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 15, 2019, 02:11:17 PM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 15, 2019, 09:34:48 PM
First is a high altitude aircraft.  The second is a couple of DJI Mavic Pro drones....  I have one. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 16, 2019, 04:07:34 AM
First is a high altitude aircraft. 
Look for the waggle @ 58s.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 16, 2019, 06:07:57 AM
You mean when the camera moved and along with it the angle that light enters a spherical lens?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 16, 2019, 07:19:46 AM
You mean when the camera moved and along with it the angle that light enters a spherical lens?
Poor quality lens if you're right.
The camera moving doesn't help, but i see a plume moving independently to the camera.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 16, 2019, 11:36:47 AM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness


Also similar stories from the USA aka AREA 51 etc. The Soviets or the US Military or the Chinese Military did not and do not have the sort of weapons that may emanate from Alien Technology. If there are Aliens and they have such technology then its beyond our scientists comprehension. Our scientists struggled to put together a crude Nuke in the 1940's. The effort that went into that project was tremendous with no help from Aliens. And so it went on throughout the so called Cold War era.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 16, 2019, 12:55:02 PM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness (https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness)


Also similar stories from the USA aka AREA 51 etc. The Soviets or the US Military or the Chinese Military did not and do not have the sort of weapons that may emanate from Alien Technology. If there are Aliens and they have such technology then its beyond our scientists comprehension. Our scientists struggled to put together a crude Nuke in the 1940's. The effort that went into that project was tremendous with no help from Aliens. And so it went on throughout the so called Cold War era.
That one is interesting because we're back in Ivanov's "orbs directing heat rays" territory. It's worth pointing out that the story is solely the testimony of one man as no report was filed. But there seem to be many others.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 16, 2019, 02:42:38 PM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness


Also similar stories from the USA aka AREA 51 etc. The Soviets or the US Military or the Chinese Military did not and do not have the sort of weapons that may emanate from Alien Technology. If there are Aliens and they have such technology then its beyond our scientists comprehension. Our scientists struggled to put together a crude Nuke in the 1940's. The effort that went into that project was tremendous with no help from Aliens. And so it went on throughout the so called Cold War era.

Best of the best in 1945.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a0/e2/07/a0e207dfb90c5d4e99c1de8ae852bf9b.jpg)





Roswell incident mid-1947.............   15 short years later in 1962 and built from a new fancy metal called titanium..    shock1

Over 4,000 missiles were fired at this thing over its career, and not a single loss.   

(https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/default/files/images/WEB11653-2010h.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/c9/db/1dc9db7aef3de7cdee695dc9920970a0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 16, 2019, 03:13:27 PM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness (https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness)


Also similar stories from the USA aka AREA 51 etc. The Soviets or the US Military or the Chinese Military did not and do not have the sort of weapons that may emanate from Alien Technology. If there are Aliens and they have such technology then its beyond our scientists comprehension. Our scientists struggled to put together a crude Nuke in the 1940's. The effort that went into that project was tremendous with no help from Aliens. And so it went on throughout the so called Cold War era.

Best of the best in 1945.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a0/e2/07/a0e207dfb90c5d4e99c1de8ae852bf9b.jpg)





Roswell incident mid-1947.............   15 short years later in 1962 and built from a new fancy metal called titanium..    shock1

Over 4,000 missiles were fired at this thing over its career, and not a single loss.   

(https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/default/files/images/WEB11653-2010h.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/c9/db/1dc9db7aef3de7cdee695dc9920970a0.jpg)
This was one of the best of the best in WW2 (with a spy plane role) and it was built of plywood and balsa...  kewl1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on April 16, 2019, 03:25:39 PM
Just read this :-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird
"Acquisition of titaniumTitanium was in short supply in the United States, so the Skunk Works team was forced to look elsewhere for the metal. Much of the needed material came from the Soviet Union. Colonel Rich Graham, SR-71 pilot, described the acquisition process: <blockquote>The airplane is 92% titanium inside and out. Back when they were building the airplane the United States didn't have the ore supplies – an ore called rutile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutile) ore. It's a very sandy soil and it's only found in very few parts of the world. The major supplier of the ore was the USSR. Working through Third World countries and bogus operations, they were able to get the rutile ore shipped to the United States to build the SR-71.[37]" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#cite_note-Dowling-40) </blockquote>

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 16, 2019, 03:28:06 PM
Yup.....    but the first blackbirds were the A-12 as shown in the lineup in my last post.   thumb1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12

Quote
14 September 1959: CIA awards antiradar study, aerodynamic structural tests, and engineering designs, selecting the A-12 over rival Convair's Kingfish. Project Oxcart established.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 16, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
And dont forget about the D-21 drone that was carried on its back. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_D-21

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/The_Lockheed_D-21.jpg)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 17, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Soviet technology!
https://www.history.com/news/korean-war-us-army-ufo-attack-illness


PRE USA STEALTH WARPLANES. The Germans beat the US to it. And its also PRE ROSWELL.

The Horten H.IX, RLM designation Ho 229 (or Gotha Go 229 for extensive re-design work done by Gotha to prepare the aircraft for mass production) was a German prototype fighter/bomber initially designed by Reimar and Walter Horten to be built by Gothaer Waggonfabrik late in World War II. It was the first flying wing to be powered by jet engines.[1]

The design was a response to Hermann Göring's call for light bomber designs capable of meeting the "3×1000" requirement; namely to carry 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb) of bombs a distance of 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) with a speed of 1,000 kilometres per hour (620 mph). Only jets could provide the speed, but these were extremely fuel-hungry, so considerable effort had to be made to meet the range requirement. Based on a flying wing, the Ho 229 lacked all extraneous control surfaces to lower drag. It was the only design to come even close to the 3×1000 requirements and received Göring's approval. Its ceiling was 15,000 metres (49,000 ft).[2]



(https://i.ibb.co/zJRr2y3/JET.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

6 sided dice simulator (https://freeonlinedice.com/)

(https://i.ibb.co/dLbxQfQ/jet1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

rental car reimbursement (https://carinsuranceguru.org/is-it-worth-it-to-get-rental-reimbursement-in-my-car-insurance)
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on April 17, 2019, 05:13:02 PM
Not stealth... its just a flying wing.   wink1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Quote
Claimed stealth technology
Radar absorbent material (RAM)

Cross-section of the Horten H.O.229 composite wood laminate
After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early-warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz, with a wavelength of 10 to 15m (top end of the HF band), known as Chain Home.[11]

A team of engineers from Northrop Grumman ran electromagnetic tests on the V3's multilayer wooden center-section nose cones. They tested over a frequency range of 12 to 117 THz,with wavelengths of the order of 10 microns. The cones are 19 mm (0.75 in) thick and made from thin sheets of veneer. The team concluded that there was some form of conducting element in the glue, as the radar signal attenuated considerably as it passed through the cone.[12] The Smithsonian Institution has performed a technical study of the materials used and determined that there is "no evidence of carbon black or charcoal in the Horten jet" thus invalidating the proposed mechanism for an essentially non-existent radar absorbent property as compared to the control sample of plywood used in the original testing. [13]
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on April 18, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
Not stealth... its just a flying wing.   wink1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Quote
Claimed stealth technology
Radar absorbent material (RAM)

Cross-section of the Horten H.O.229 composite wood laminate
After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early-warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz, with a wavelength of 10 to 15m (top end of the HF band), known as Chain Home.[11]

A team of engineers from Northrop Grumman ran electromagnetic tests on the V3's multilayer wooden center-section nose cones. They tested over a frequency range of 12 to 117 THz,with wavelengths of the order of 10 microns. The cones are 19 mm (0.75 in) thick and made from thin sheets of veneer. The team concluded that there was some form of conducting element in the glue, as the radar signal attenuated considerably as it passed through the cone.[12] The Smithsonian Institution has performed a technical study of the materials used and determined that there is "no evidence of carbon black or charcoal in the Horten jet" thus invalidating the proposed mechanism for an essentially non-existent radar absorbent property as compared to the control sample of plywood used in the original testing. [13]

Very strategic looking wing though. The shape of the aircraft years ahead of the USA. Stealthy by looks.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 02, 2019, 04:31:21 AM
We have more to learn than we will ever know. - https://www.sciencealert.com/introducing-steve-a-newly-discovered-light-in-the-sky
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 10, 2019, 10:18:34 AM
Copying this vid over from another thread, the theory being that the blue/violet glow is excited nitrogen and the Plane1/2 photos are of a similar object. No idea what the rest of it is, probably for the science of the future to answer.
https://youtu.be/d6aCxU52hXE (https://youtu.be/d6aCxU52hXE)

Here's a famous report from the US - https://www.history.com/news/ufo-chiles-whitted-soviet-spycraft-air-force-coverup (https://www.history.com/news/ufo-chiles-whitted-soviet-spycraft-air-force-coverup)"Underneath the ship there was a blue glow of light.”
I'd also add that reading about the Warminster Thing - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WARMINSTER-MYSTERY-Arthur-Shuttlewood/dp/0426169263

One eye witness account talks of an aerial object "just like a railway carriage". The Chiles-whitted object being a double decker version.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 10, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
Copying this vid over from another thread, the theory being that the blue/violet glow is excited nitrogen and the Plane1/2 photos are of a similar object. No idea what the rest of it is, probably for the science of the future to answer.
https://youtu.be/d6aCxU52hXE (https://youtu.be/d6aCxU52hXE)

Here's a famous report from the US - https://www.history.com/news/ufo-chiles-whitted-soviet-spycraft-air-force-coverup (https://www.history.com/news/ufo-chiles-whitted-soviet-spycraft-air-force-coverup)"Underneath the ship there was a blue glow of light.”
I'd also add that reading about the Warminster Thing - https://www.amazon.co.uk/WARMINSTER-MYSTERY-Arthur-Shuttlewood/dp/0426169263

One eye witness account talks of an aerial object "just like a railway carriage". The Chiles-whitted object being a double decker version.

Well I remember from about 35 years ago or so what a Farmer told Me after him and his family had a UFO experience. There had been a lot of sightings in this area of the Midlands, England, and so I decided to ask the Farmer exactly what they saw. One night they saw CYLINDRICAL OBJECTS in the sky that appeared fairly low in height over their Farm. They mentioned colours of the Cylinders and also bright lights coming down over their cattle in the yard. Obviously they were amazed at what they saw. No cattle were harmed and no lightning or other electrical events were reported. The stories of these various sightings did get into the newspapers at the time.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 10, 2019, 04:48:12 PM
Time-laps stills of a drone... classic. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 11, 2019, 03:43:07 AM


Well I remember from about 35 years ago or so what a Farmer told Me after him and his family had a UFO experience. There had been a lot of sightings in this area of the Midlands, England, and so I decided to ask the Farmer exactly what they saw. One night they saw CYLINDRICAL OBJECTS in the sky that appeared fairly low in height over their Farm. They mentioned colours of the Cylinders and also bright lights coming down over their cattle in the yard. Obviously they were amazed at what they saw. No cattle were harmed and no lightning or other electrical events were reported. The stories of these various sightings did get into the newspapers at the time.
Yes, cylinders and cigars are very common structures in UFO reports.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 11, 2019, 03:45:13 AM
Time-laps stills of a drone... classic.
and your explanation for the sighting in 1948 is?......
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 11, 2019, 08:13:03 AM
Time-laps stills of a drone... classic.
and your explanation for the sighting in 1948 is?......

Do I need to 'explain' every UFO sighting in history? 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 11, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
Time-laps stills of a drone... classic.
and your explanation for the sighting in 1948 is?......

Do I need to 'explain' every UFO sighting in history?


You could try your drone theory...

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 11, 2019, 12:09:20 PM
Low ISO and a long shutter speed.......   waste of time mate. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 11, 2019, 03:32:42 PM
Low ISO and a long shutter speed.......   waste of time mate.
What is?
Do we have a negative of the plane frames?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 22, 2019, 08:22:39 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 22, 2019, 02:38:01 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan

But this doesnt prove anything  !  ?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 22, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan)

But this doesnt prove anything  !  ?
No and your point is?

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 22, 2019, 07:58:42 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan


Its NOT climbing and its NOT ball lightning...   If it were coming straight at you, would you say it was going straight up?    No, its was the angle in which it was traveling in relationship to the the camera.   Its a meteor, and they glow dif colors depending on what elements they are comprised of.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 23, 2019, 04:00:00 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan)


Its NOT climbing and its NOT ball lightning...   If it were coming straight at you, would you say it was going straight up?    No, its was the angle in which it was traveling in relationship to the the camera.   Its a meteor, and they glow dif colors depending on what elements they are comprised of.

Meteors commonly leave a trail or have a tail. No sign of that here.


Just a strange green light.... Like a green fire orb....

Read this and weep - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs
"Meteor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor) expert Dr. Lincoln LaPaz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_LaPaz) headed much of the investigation into the fireballs on behalf of the military. LaPaz's conclusion was that the objects displayed too many anomalous characteristics to be a type of meteor"
Some early reports came from late November 1948,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs#cite_note-Ruppelt_Edward_1956-1) but were at first dismissed as military green flares (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flare). Then on the night of December 5, 1948, two separate plane crews, one military (Air Force C-47 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_C-47_Skytrain), Captain Goede, 9:27 p.m., 10 miles (16 km) east of Albuquerque (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albuquerque,_New_Mexico)) and one civilian (DC-3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3), Pioneer Flight 63, 9:35 p.m., east of Las Vegas, New Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas,_New_Mexico)), each asserted that they had seen a "green ball of fire"; the C-47 crew had seen an identical object 22 minutes before near Las Vegas.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs#cite_note-ReferenceA-11)  The military crew described the light as like a huge green meteor except it arched upwards and then flat instead of downwards[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs#cite_note-ReferenceA-11) The civilian crew described the light as having a trajectory too low and flat for a meteor, at first abreast and ahead of them but then appearing to come straight at them on a collision course, forcing the pilot to swerve the plane at which time the object appeared full moon size.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs#cite_note-12)



 lol2
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 23, 2019, 07:17:10 AM
And you call yourself a physicist.   

Ever pitched a mean curveball, or do they not have baseball in the UK?

Im guessing your NOT able to tell us what direction the object was spinning when it entered the atmosphere, or how fast of a rate the spin was.   

And no....  they don't always leave a trail. 


https://youtu.be/2OSrvzNW9FE
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 23, 2019, 07:49:16 AM
And you call yourself a physicist.   

Ever pitched a mean curveball, or do they not have baseball in the UK?

Im guessing your NOT able to tell us what direction the object was spinning when it entered the atmosphere, or how fast of a rate the spin was.   

And no....  they don't always leave a trail. 


https://youtu.be/2OSrvzNW9FE (https://youtu.be/2OSrvzNW9FE)

Great video but i don't see any green fireballs?  dance1

More seriously a (big) problem for the meteor theory is the frequency of sightings in a relatively small part of the globe. That's not how meteors operate...
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 23, 2019, 08:26:31 AM
You mean frequency in which they are reported by people that don't understand them vs people that know better and simply don't make a big deal out of it. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 23, 2019, 08:55:05 AM
You mean frequency in which they are reported by people that don't understand them vs people that know better and simply don't make a big deal out of it.
Read the link before you make wild stabs in the dark.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 23, 2019, 10:15:10 AM
What is this 'read' thing you speak of?

See my last post. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 23, 2019, 10:36:29 AM
What is this 'read' thing you speak of?

See my last post.

read - verb - look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed.
Read this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 23, 2019, 11:57:18 AM
Very interesting that the New Mexico sightings attracted an electrostatic explanation. Which fits with some theories for the DP orbs.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 24, 2019, 11:55:56 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan)

But this doesnt prove anything  !  ?
No and your point is?

That is My point. It does not prove anything and that also means it doesnt prove anything for the Dyatlov Mystery as well.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 24, 2019, 02:24:55 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-37843273/strange-green-light-spotted-over-japan)

But this doesnt prove anything  !  ?
No and your point is?

That is My point. It does not prove anything and that also means it doesnt prove anything for the Dyatlov Mystery as well.




You're back on this "proving" thing again. We can't prove what happened that night.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 25, 2019, 01:02:40 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Not a very convincing theory. And the black smoke is most likely to be due to some type of photographic error, be it film or camera etc.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on May 25, 2019, 01:19:14 PM
You would think the people in the photo would at least be looking at it, and the camera operator would have made it the subject rather then the people.  I call bs
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 25, 2019, 03:01:31 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide)
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Not a very convincing theory. And the black smoke is most likely to be due to some type of photographic error, be it film or camera etc.
All the people in that photo would be dead in say the next six hours. Five of them just lying down using a tent as a ground sheet and never getting up. All fit youngsters.

Something did it.


Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 28, 2019, 12:30:43 PM
Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide)
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-
(https://c.radikal.ru/c27/1806/b9/b285ea8c7f56.jpg)
There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Not a very convincing theory. And the black smoke is most likely to be due to some type of photographic error, be it film or camera etc.
All the people in that photo would be dead in say the next six hours. Five of them just lying down using a tent as a ground sheet and never getting up. All fit youngsters.

Something did it.

You say that all the people in that photo would be dead in say the next 6 hours  !  ? Any proof of that, i e, exact time please  !  ? 
And you also say that  5 of them just lying down and never getting up ! ? Can you be certain of this precise detail you give us ! ?
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on May 28, 2019, 12:47:55 PM

You say that all the people in that photo would be dead in say the next 6 hours  !  ? Any proof of that, i e, exact time please  !  ? 

And you also say that  5 of them just lying down and never getting up ! ? Can you be certain of this precise detail you give us ! ?
All in my opinion.




Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: sarapuk on May 29, 2019, 10:56:57 AM

You say that all the people in that photo would be dead in say the next 6 hours  !  ? Any proof of that, i e, exact time please  !  ? 

And you also say that  5 of them just lying down and never getting up ! ? Can you be certain of this precise detail you give us ! ?
All in my opinion.

Fair enough.  Its just that sometimes you make STATEMENTS as if those STATEMENTS were the FACTS and also TRUE, when all they are are your OPINIONS.
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on July 05, 2019, 12:13:21 PM
"The places where the Kompolen roams are called “spellbound”."https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/parallel-universe-portal-mirror-world-science-stranger-things-oak-ridge-a8987681.html
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: soeintyphalt on July 20, 2019, 02:44:12 PM
I personally was always interested to the witnesses that reported lights on the mountains.

This fact is more or less very well known and some people take this reports to assume some military rocket testing or even
intercontinental rocket fly by.

On youtube i found this movie about hessdalen in norway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USIbnWZhy2g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USIbnWZhy2g)

The hessdalen lights could be an explanation for the reason why the dyatlov group was scared and cut the tent from the inside.
Maybe the damaged photos shows lights indeed.

Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on July 21, 2019, 07:44:33 PM
The "cut from inside of tent in a panic" narrative is highly suspect at best. 
Title: Re: The Real Ball Lightning theory
Post by: Nigel Evans on July 28, 2019, 05:52:40 AM
The "cut from inside of tent in a panic" narrative is highly suspect at best.
I don't understand?