Dyatlov Pass Forum

Theories Discussion => Yeti / Snowman => Topic started by: Star man on July 07, 2019, 11:46:40 PM

Title: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 07, 2019, 11:46:40 PM
The Yeti theory is definitely one that is controversial.  There are many skeptics out there (including myself) but there are also many people who are convinced that they are real.

It is true that there is currently no objective scientific evidence to support their existence.  But it is also common for well established scientific beliefs to be proven wrong also.  In the study and exploration of the solar system almost every heavenly body has revealed surprises that were unexpected or difficult to explain.  Sometimes it is those who are prepared to challenge common understanding that push the frontier of science and knowledge forward.

I want to use this topic to explore the yeti theory in an objective way.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 08, 2019, 08:10:06 AM
If we take objective view, my problem with yeti theory is that it requires a proof of its existence, let alone presence at the specific place and time, which multiplies the denominator of probability by a large margin and pushes it far from any 'realistic' theory.

To put it bluntly, compared do military or murder theory, there is one more level of proof needed. I don't need to prove the existence of Soviet soldiers or people with violent intent when we discuss the latter. Their presence remains to be proved or dismissed though.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 08, 2019, 03:44:33 PM
We can explore the YETI THEORY. It may take time though. We dont have much to go on regarding the Dyatlov Incident. We could use Incidents from the past to compare Events. Stories of strange creatures and legends and reports of witnesses sightings etc.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 08, 2019, 10:53:54 PM
If we take objective view, my problem with yeti theory is that it requires a proof of its existence, let alone presence at the specific place and time, which multiplies the denominator of probability by a large margin and pushes it far from any 'realistic' theory.

To put it bluntly, compared do military or murder theory, there is one more level of proof needed. I don't need to prove the existence of Soviet soldiers or people with violent intent when we discuss the latter. Their presence remains to be proved or dismissed though.

Hi Gypsy,

I understand the problem that you outline.  But the denominator might not be significantly greater than the other theories when comparing the motives.  Yes the military and or the potential for murderes "definitely exist".  But thie pass is an extremely remote area, and the weather was really bad.  Apart from the signs of the Mansi and a hunter the group did not see any other people on their trek, even in good weather and daylight.  What is the probability that the military or murderes new where they were AND that the probability that they would take the opportunity to attack them at night in severe weather?  Also, what is the probability that said killers would allow the group to wander off down the slope, (some with shoes and relatively warm clothing)?  What is the probability that the killers would allow some of the group to take knives and matches and flashlights with them?  What would the motive be for such an attack?

On the other hand how would a Yeti know they were there - smell, noise.
What would a Yeti be doing there - it's natural habitat
Why would a Yeti attack them - curiosity and territorial protection.
If they did cut their way through the side of the tent why would they do this to evade humans?  It would be pointless.

The group left the camp site in a hurry - Rustem left before he finished putting his boots on.
There appears to have been a significant and immediate threat to life that night.  Something scary enough to force them all away from their life boat the tent.

Yes - all of the above is subject to question too.  I am simply suggesting that the probabilities might not  be as far away as expected.

Regards

Star man



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 08, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
We can explore the YETI THEORY. It may take time though. We dont have much to go on regarding the Dyatlov Incident. We could use Incidents from the past to compare Events. Stories of strange creatures and legends and reports of witnesses sightings etc.

Hi Srarpuk,

Past eye witness accounts and stories would be useful.  Do you know of any?  Of course it will take time thrash this one out.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 08, 2019, 11:43:37 PM
It might be worth trying to put some context into this thread.

Scientific discovery can be a slow and sometimes embarrassing process. Especially for the scientific community who have their reputation to keep.

It was difficult for them to accept that the world wasn’t flat after all.  Maps had to be re-drawn and trade routes thought through again because our shipping was no longer going to fall off the edge.

Oh and by the way the earth isn’t the centre of the universe.  That was a bit embarrassing - sorry Galileo.

Wow women can actually learn to read.  That was a bit of a revelation for some.

Say what - you can actually travel faster than 30 mph without suffocating?  Thanks for that one Stevenson.

Oh pants - you can’t actually turn base metals into gold.  I’ll have to buy a lottery ticket now.

Ah - the universe is actually bigger than we thought and it is still getting bigger.  Thanks Edwin.  What would we have done without you.  I don’t need my cosmological constant after all - or do I?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 09, 2019, 04:47:13 AM
Hi.  Just a bit more context

There are now many examples of animals that were previously thought to be myth, legend or extinct that we have recently been discovered to be still around.

The Megamouth Shark thought to be extinct for millions of years turned up in 1976.  Only 100 have ever been seen since.

The Coelacanth thought to be extinct since the Cretaceous found alive in 1938.

What about the ancient mariners tales of giant sea serpents and squid.  Utter nonsense - at least until the 1860s when an actual specimen was found and it became a part of main stream science.

Also several tribes of human have been discovered during the 20th century some living a Stone Age existence. Tribes that have had no contact with modern civilisation for thousands of years.

What about Big Foot or Yetis - utter garbage right?  To think that a potentially very intelligent humanoid creature could evade the true awesomeness of mankinds powers of discovery.

Regards

Star man



Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 09, 2019, 04:00:59 PM
Possible Clues:

The Evening Otorten - satirical pamphlet with each entry humorously relaying real events of the trip.  So what about the Science entry and the "snow man"?  Did one of the group see something and relay this to the group only to be ridiculed and later prompt the entry in the pamphlet?  Why say anything about a snow man in the pamphlet?  The pamphlets certainly doesn't say anything about military personnel or KGB or any other humans.

Why camp where they did in an exposed place in potentially bad weather conditions away from the planned route?  Did they think it would give them a better vantage point to observe anything approaching the tent? 

Why did Semyon have his camera around his neck - had he seen something that he wanted to photograph?  Did he fear for his life and thought that taking a photo of his killer would at least inform the world about what had happened.  Did he have a piece of paper in hand when he was found and if so what was he trying to write?

What could scare 9 fit tourists so much that they would cut their way out of a tent and leave it's safety for sub zero temperatures without adequate clothing and shoes?  Cutting your way out of a tent is unlikely to be a realistic means of escape from humans.  It is more likely to be the panicked actions of people who are terrified of something in or at the entrance to the tent.

How do two of the tourists receive similar flail chest injuries on the same night?  While another receives a significant head injury?



Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 09, 2019, 11:44:22 PM
If there was a Yeti, why would it approach the group?  Probably just curiosity.  Maybe they were in its territory.

Of the many reported sightings of such creatures very few describe any sort of aggressive behaviour.  In most cases it would appear that both the creature and the human are taken by surprise with said creature making a swift and controlled retreat.  Other types of encounter describe the creature as curious- following the people but keeping their distance.  As if they are keeping a watchful eye on them to ensure they don’t present a threat to others in the creatures family.

Most description of aggression is in the form of growls and thrown objects such as stones and logs.  The creatures keeping a cautious distance.

So at the tent it is possible that the creature simply wanted them out of its territory in case they were a threat .

This is a simple motive is it not?

Regards

Star man


Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 10, 2019, 08:46:18 AM
Why did the group leave the tent?  Given the remote location, the time of day and the poor weather conditions it is extremely unlikely that there were any other people there.  If there was a rocket or some other military threat from the air then it left no obvious trace on the tent and if it left no obvious trace on the tent then it could not have been significant enough to cause them harm - unless a large amount of gas was involved that later blew away.  And is it realistic to think that one moment they bahaved completely irrationally and then completely rationally again in their attempt to survive?

Is it more likely that on the slope that night there was a very real and significant threat?  A threat that was relatively quite at home in that environment?  A threat that scared them so much that they left their only safe refuge with insufficient clothing and footwear knowing that their chances of survival were slim.  Why cut the tent if it is your life boat?  Surely you would only do this out of shear panic, where your flight or flight response over ruled your logical thinking.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 11, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Was looking at the photographs of the raised foot prints closely today and noticed something odd near the set of prints highlighted in green and numbered as 4.  I'm not going to say what it is though.  If anyone else sees something odd let me know.  Might be nothing, or something.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: NkZ on July 12, 2019, 10:27:10 AM
Régular and curved sweeping marks in the snow, like a zen garden? Or an erasement....
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 12, 2019, 10:59:05 AM
Régular and curved sweeping marks in the snow, like a zen garden? Or an erasement....

Yeah, there is definitely regularity there.  Even symmetry.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: NkZ on July 12, 2019, 11:46:03 AM
Someone with a metal detector «  combing » along the traces?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 12, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Below is a witness statement from slobtsov.  I find it interesting for several reasons:

He says we followed these prints from the tent in the direction of the spreading cedar.  Does that mean that the tourists could see the cedar on the landscape in the distance or is this just a coincidence?

If they could see it how? Wasn't it suppose to be night and bad weather?

If they decided to head for the cedar does that mean they were able to make their own decisions on where they went and what action they took.  In other words they were making their own decisions rather being frogged marched down the slope?

Why head for cedar?  What advantage did they see in this action if any?

Regards

Star man

Slobtsov

”There were footprints of bare feet, but in socks. Some were from valenki, and occasionally we could make out the tread of a ski boot. All of these prints were raised higher than the actual wind-scoured surface of the slope. We followed these prints from the tent in the direction of a spreading cedar, which was clearly prominent on the hill. First we lost, and then we found, the tracks again. They appeared again in the birch-tree undergrowth, and then they went down along the ravine which led to the Lozva River.”

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: NkZ on July 12, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
but... dear Star Man, are looking at the same picture?
i was considering the ripples on this one, that somehow look on second thought like damage on a film...
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-011.jpg
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 12, 2019, 04:09:37 PM
but... dear Star Man, are looking at the same picture?
i was considering the ripples on this one, that somehow look on second thought like damage on a film...
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-011.jpg

Ah right.  I was looking at this one.  Centre right and down a little.

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-015.jpg

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 14, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
Let's talk a little bit about the more significant injuries.

Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo.

I have done a fair bit of research into the flail chest injuries and from my investigation I have concluded that both Lyuda and Semyon's flail chests appear to have been caused by a single very large impact - applying a force in the region of 2.5 tonnes.  This is far beyond any force that a human being can deliver in a single impact.  A fall could explain such an injury -say from about 4 to 5 metres onto a flatish surface.  A vehicle impact could also explain it - but I doubt very much there were any vehicles there.  Thibo's head injury could also be explained by a fall, and hitting his head on a rock.  Problem solved right?  -  not quite.  In a previous theory I wrote on " Low yield nuke" I speculated that the injuries were caused by the three falling from the cedar, after suffering from hypoxia.  This was one way of explaining how they didn't sustain any coincident injuries to limbs.

In most fall injuries of a conscious person a large proportion of them also result in broken ankles and wrists, due to the conscious person attempting to break their fall.  But here we have three significant injuries occurring without any similar injuries to limbs?  Why?  If they all fell and they were conscious when it happened then at least one of them should have sustained a significant injury to arms or ankle.  It's also interesting that two of them sustain very similar rib injuries, each of which require a very similar amount of force.  Kind of like the source of of both injuries was the same.  Could it have been a shock waves from an explosion?  If this was the case why no shrapnel wounds and no shrapnel also?  No scorch marks or burns on the clothing?  Also a shock wave capable of causing those injuries would throw the person a fair distance resulting in additional significant secondary injuries.  But there aren't any.

So what is the likihood of three of the Rav 4 falling on the same night and receiving significant and similar injuries?  The case files suggest there were 8 or 9 sets of tracks leading away from the tent down the slope in the same direction?  But only three of the tourists have significant head and chest Injuries, and it just so happens that those three were all found in the same group in the ravine. 

The chest injuries could also have been caused by a large crushing force applied like a bear hug, or from being physically picked up and thrown.  It would take something very powerful to do this.  Something much more powerful than any human.  Thibo's head injury could also have been cause the same way, or possibly from a thrown rock.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 14, 2019, 03:59:03 PM
pasted-image.jpg

Not sure if this image post worked.  Anyway was lookingnatnthis image and noticed some regualr symmetrical discolouration of the snow/ice.  Have a look at the original to see if you can see it also.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 14, 2019, 04:00:18 PM
Ah it didn't work. -  no matter

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 15, 2019, 04:06:18 AM
Building on the investigation into the injuries. Another possible explanation for the broken ribs and head injuries is that they could have been caused by a large bolder being lifted and dropped onto them. This would result in similar injuries.  The size of the bolder required to cause such injuries I have estimated to be between 150kg to 300kg depending on the height it is dropped from 1 to 2 metres.  This could potentially have been the murder weapon.  If this was used and the bodies were not subsequently moved then such a weapon could still be there today. An examination of the damaged ribs might reveal further information on what caused the breaks.

Another question is could a normal human lift such a bolder?  Or possibly two people working together?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 15, 2019, 06:17:26 AM
Just some further thoughts on the above.  The bodies look like they have been moved.  Probably by Kolevatov.  If this is the case then it is unlikely that they would have been moved very far.  So if a bolder was used then it might not be in the immediate vicinity of where the bodies were found.  But it would probably be relatively near by.  Given the lack of tissue damage it is likely to have been a reasonabley smooth bolder.  It would also be likely that there are signs that the bolder had been moved and dropped- scratches, chunks missing etc.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 15, 2019, 01:34:37 PM
It might be worth trying to put some context into this thread.

Scientific discovery can be a slow and sometimes embarrassing process. Especially for the scientific community who have their reputation to keep.

It was difficult for them to accept that the world wasn’t flat after all.  Maps had to be re-drawn and trade routes thought through again because our shipping was no longer going to fall off the edge.

Oh and by the way the earth isn’t the centre of the universe.  That was a bit embarrassing - sorry Galileo.

Wow women can actually learn to read.  That was a bit of a revelation for some.

Say what - you can actually travel faster than 30 mph without suffocating?  Thanks for that one Stevenson.

Oh pants - you can’t actually turn base metals into gold.  I’ll have to buy a lottery ticket now.

Ah - the universe is actually bigger than we thought and it is still getting bigger.  Thanks Edwin.  What would we have done without you.  I don’t need my cosmological constant after all - or do I?

Regards

Star man

And lets not forget a biggy from Albert, nothing travels faster than the speed of light. Well actually something does.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 15, 2019, 01:49:28 PM
We can explore the YETI THEORY. It may take time though. We dont have much to go on regarding the Dyatlov Incident. We could use Incidents from the past to compare Events. Stories of strange creatures and legends and reports of witnesses sightings etc.

Hi Srarpuk,

Past eye witness accounts and stories would be useful.  Do you know of any?  Of course it will take time thrash this one out.

Regards

Star man

Well I have read many books and articles over the years and with the Internet getting better all the time more information is coming to light. I think a good idea would be to look at SIMILARITIES, obviously its unlikely we will come across an exact event. So similar instances where there have been reports of such creatures and any injuries to animals including Humans. Also any reports of UFO's in the vicinity of such sightings or events. Now I know about a famous story from ALASKA from the 1930's mostly, and here is an interesting link to get that particular ball rolling. https://www.alaskamagazine.com/articles/somethings-afoot-in-port-chatham-century-old-rumors-persist-of-a-terror-in-the-mountains/
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 15, 2019, 03:24:10 PM
We can explore the YETI THEORY. It may take time though. We dont have much to go on regarding the Dyatlov Incident. We could use Incidents from the past to compare Events. Stories of strange creatures and legends and reports of witnesses sightings etc.

Hi Srarpuk,

Past eye witness accounts and stories would be useful.  Do you know of any?  Of course it will take time thrash this one out.

Regards

Star man

Well I have read many books and articles over the years and with the Internet getting better all the time more information is coming to light. I think a good idea would be to look at SIMILARITIES, obviously its unlikely we will come across an exact event. So similar instances where there have been reports of such creatures and any injuries to animals including Humans. Also any reports of UFO's in the vicinity of such sightings or events. Now I know about a famous story from ALASKA from the 1930's mostly, and here is an interesting link to get that particular ball rolling. https://www.alaskamagazine.com/articles/somethings-afoot-in-port-chatham-century-old-rumors-persist-of-a-terror-in-the-mountains/

It is an interesting story.  So many disappearances and eye witness sightings.  I have read stories where the creature is very cautious, keeping its distance from humans.  And other stories where the creatures gain confidence slowly approaching and becoming progressively more aggressive.  Kind of like testing the water to understand if the humans are a threat. 

It's interesting that there are so many stories from a varied array of people and yet no evidence.   Have you seen the you tube video about Dr Mathew Johnsons encounter at the Oregon caves?  It's in two parts.  Whether he saw a big foot or now he certainly believes that he saw one.  Worth a watch.  He suffers post traumatic stress from his experience and re-lives the fear each time he tells the tale.  Difficult to fake those emotions.

Wrt to the Dyatlov case I am looking for objective evidence or at least clues as to where to look.  Could there still be evidence today?

Given modern forensic science I think the bodies of Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may hold significant clues to what happened.  Could do with some "cold case" investigators on the DPI.  The bones could reveal a lot of information:

Were the injuries caused by:

A fall (possible)

Applied slow pressure and crushing (unlikely) given the double fracture lines but not impossible

An impact from a melee attack ( again unlikely even from a yeti). I think even an 8 to 10 foot hominid would struggle to generate 2.5 tonnes of force from a hand

A large round smoothish 150 to 300 kg bolder dropped from about 1 to 2 metres - actually this one may be credible for the legendary Yeti.  Probably even 2 humans.  I'm not sure how much discussion there has been on heavy bolders falling onto them?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 16, 2019, 02:35:20 PM


It is an interesting story.  So many disappearances and eye witness sightings.  I have read stories where the creature is very cautious, keeping its distance from humans.  And other stories where the creatures gain confidence slowly approaching and becoming progressively more aggressive.  Kind of like testing the water to understand if the humans are a threat. 

It's interesting that there are so many stories from a varied array of people and yet no evidence.   Have you seen the you tube video about Dr Mathew Johnsons encounter at the Oregon caves?  It's in two parts.  Whether he saw a big foot or now he certainly believes that he saw one.  Worth a watch.  He suffers post traumatic stress from his experience and re-lives the fear each time he tells the tale.  Difficult to fake those emotions.

Wrt to the Dyatlov case I am looking for objective evidence or at least clues as to where to look.  Could there still be evidence today?

Given modern forensic science I think the bodies of Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may hold significant clues to what happened.  Could do with some "cold case" investigators on the DPI.  The bones could reveal a lot of information:

Were the injuries caused by:

A fall (possible)

Applied slow pressure and crushing (unlikely) given the double fracture lines but not impossible

An impact from a melee attack ( again unlikely even from a yeti). I think even an 8 to 10 foot hominid would struggle to generate 2.5 tonnes of force from a hand

A large round smoothish 150 to 300 kg bolder dropped from about 1 to 2 metres - actually this one may be credible for the legendary Yeti.  Probably even 2 humans.  I'm not sure how much discussion there has been on heavy bolders falling onto them?

Regards

Star man
[/quote]

Well so many things are coming to light since the fall of the The Soviet Union and also the beginning of The World Wide Web. I havnt seen that You Tube story that you mention but I have seen many many articles in the last few years that point to something unusual going on and has been going on for a very long time. Strange Creatures and UFO's and other unusual activity. Now an interesting one this, EVIDENCE. Evidence can take many forms. An eye witness account of something can be called EVIDENCE. How many Crimes have been solved with just an EYE WITNESS. Something to think about. Regarding those Dyatlov Bodies you mention, the AUTOPSY REPORTS did not seem very thorough to Me  !  ?  Like some things were omitted ! ? Not very detailed Autopsy Reports considering the IMPORTANCE of this EVENT.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 16, 2019, 03:30:40 PM


It is an interesting story.  So many disappearances and eye witness sightings.  I have read stories where the creature is very cautious, keeping its distance from humans.  And other stories where the creatures gain confidence slowly approaching and becoming progressively more aggressive.  Kind of like testing the water to understand if the humans are a threat. 

It's interesting that there are so many stories from a varied array of people and yet no evidence.   Have you seen the you tube video about Dr Mathew Johnsons encounter at the Oregon caves?  It's in two parts.  Whether he saw a big foot or now he certainly believes that he saw one.  Worth a watch.  He suffers post traumatic stress from his experience and re-lives the fear each time he tells the tale.  Difficult to fake those emotions.

Wrt to the Dyatlov case I am looking for objective evidence or at least clues as to where to look.  Could there still be evidence today?

Given modern forensic science I think the bodies of Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may hold significant clues to what happened.  Could do with some "cold case" investigators on the DPI.  The bones could reveal a lot of information:

Were the injuries caused by:

A fall (possible)

Applied slow pressure and crushing (unlikely) given the double fracture lines but not impossible

An impact from a melee attack ( again unlikely even from a yeti). I think even an 8 to 10 foot hominid would struggle to generate 2.5 tonnes of force from a hand

A large round smoothish 150 to 300 kg bolder dropped from about 1 to 2 metres - actually this one may be credible for the legendary Yeti.  Probably even 2 humans.  I'm not sure how much discussion there has been on heavy bolders falling onto them?

Regards

Star man

Well so many things are coming to light since the fall of the The Soviet Union and also the beginning of The World Wide Web. I havnt seen that You Tube story that you mention but I have seen many many articles in the last few years that point to something unusual going on and has been going on for a very long time. Strange Creatures and UFO's and other unusual activity. Now an interesting one this, EVIDENCE. Evidence can take many forms. An eye witness account of something can be called EVIDENCE. How many Crimes have been solved with just an EYE WITNESS. Something to think about. Regarding those Dyatlov Bodies you mention, the AUTOPSY REPORTS did not seem very thorough to Me  !  ?  Like some things were omitted ! ? Not very detailed Autopsy Reports considering the IMPORTANCE of this EVENT.
[/quote]

The autopsy reports don't seem to dig deep enough.  It's almost as if they had already decided what had happened to them before they started.

Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?  Semyon and Thibo were dressed with shoes on.  They were probably on duty that night.  If there wasmsomethingnoutside the tent then these two would have most likely been the first to hear it or become aware of it.  What would they do?  Grab a flashlight and go outside carefully checking to look for wild animals?  If they saw a Yeti what would they do?  Make a lot of noise I imagine using some colourful language.  Maybe they would run, the flight response triggered.  The commotion would certainly wake those in the tent if they were sleeping.  The people in the tent are less well dressed.  Rustem attempts to put his boots on but escapes the tent before he can grab his second boot.  They make their way down the slope.  Could they run given that they have no shoes, the slope is steep and slippery, it's dark and the snow is fairly deep?  Probably difficult to run.  This doesn't mean that they don't hurry as fast they can?

On the slope they drop the flashlight.  If it was important enough to take why wasn't it important enough to pick up?  Haste? Panic?

At the cedar is there evidence of haste.  The clothes removed from the two Yuris for instance.  Cut from their bodies, socks scattered around the camp fire, clothes left between the ravine and the cedar.  If they were in a hurry why?  Gloves in pockets, unused socks, coats not fully buttoned up.  I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 17, 2019, 08:51:55 AM
Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 19, 2019, 05:48:56 AM


Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?    I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man
[/quote]

The Evidence problem is a very difficult one. May be one day more Evidence will come to light. As for Evidence of HASTE, well it looks like they left the Tent in a fair hurry, because of the indications re clothing and all the stuff they left behind in the Tent. Well I suppose in those weather conditions if you leave a Tent you are exposing yourself to a greater danger. We dont know the EXACT weather conditions when they left the Tent. By all accounts the weather can change dramatically in those regions in a very short time.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 19, 2019, 05:53:48 AM
Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man

I think some of the injuries could easily have been caused by a BEAR. But Iam not saying that a BEAR caused those injuries. Also on the subject of strange creatures like the alleged YETI, then I would have thought such a creature could also have caused those injuries. And again Iam not saying that a YETI caused those injuries.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 19, 2019, 08:35:58 AM


Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?    I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man

The Evidence problem is a very difficult one. May be one day more Evidence will come to light. As for Evidence of HASTE, well it looks like they left the Tent in a fair hurry, because of the indications re clothing and all the stuff they left behind in the Tent. Well I suppose in those weather conditions if you leave a Tent you are exposing yourself to a greater danger. We dont know the EXACT weather conditions when they left the Tent. By all accounts the weather can change dramatically in those regions in a very short time.
[/quote]

True but could do with evidence that they left in haste .  The clothes is a good indicator but it doesn’t rule out that they could have been forced to leave without clothes?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 19, 2019, 08:42:57 AM
Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man

I think some of the injuries could easily have been caused by a BEAR. But Iam not saying that a BEAR caused those injuries. Also on the subject of strange creatures like the alleged YETI, then I would have thought such a creature could also have caused those injuries. And again Iam not saying that a YETI caused those injuries.

Agree that we should not assume that the alleged Yeti was involved.  This needs to be an objective analysis of the theory allowing the suspension of disbelief. 

I am just looking for better evidence either for or against.

I may suggest controversial claims for the sake of the argument though.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 19, 2019, 09:04:02 AM
Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 19, 2019, 04:23:30 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 20, 2019, 01:57:55 AM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 20, 2019, 05:04:52 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 21, 2019, 11:46:45 PM
Some further thoughts on Thibo’s head injury:

The shape of the injury is quite clear with a distinct rounded perimeter. Slightly elliptical in shape.  If the depression of the injury ranges from 1cm to 3cm then it would mean that the radius of curvature at the point where the injury occurred would be between 6cm and 13cm.  So what could have credibly caused the injury:

1. A fall onto a Rock - Yes
2. Hit with a rock - yes
3. Rock dropped onto head - yes
4. Hit with blunt object - yes
5. Hit with rounded weapon - yes
6. Skull crushed between hands - only by something immensely strong.

Unfortunately there is nothing that can be completely ruled out just looking at the head injury alone.

If you consider the comments from the autopsy the lack of soft tissue damage is interesting. This combined with the lack of injuries to hands, wrists might lower the possibility of a fall.  But Thibo had 2 thick hats on.  Another key point is that Thibo, Lyuda and Semyon all had serious injuries which would significantly increase the likelihood of a violent attack,

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 04:17:01 AM
Have made a minor amendment to the above post. I had written the diameter rather than the radius. Now corrected.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 04:48:17 AM
Thibo’s head injury taken in isolation doesn’t reveal anything astonishing.  However when considered holistically with the rav 4.  There are some interesting observations:

1. At least one of the rav four had a knife. This was used to remove clothing from their dead friends at the cedar.

2. The autopsy reports mentions nothing about rope marks on their ankles and wrists, indicating that they were not tied up or restrained.

3. Three of the group had significant injuries.  Any one of which could be explained by a significant fall.  But all three together and with no damage to wrists or ankles is very unlikely (unless they were all unconscious) which is even more unlikely.  This would point to an act of violence by someone or something.

4.  Although Thibo’s head injury could have been caused by another person using a blunt instrument, Semyon and Lyuda’s injuries would have taken a force beyond that which any human could muster.  I think is safe to exclude explosions too as there would be cuts from small pieces of debris and possibly scorch marks. There is no evidence of any explosion.

5. If they were not constrained and had a knife why would their attackers use primitive methods of attack?  The rav four were not stabbed, shot. Or cut by any blade.

It would seem to me that if they were attacked, then whatever/whoever attacked them was also the same thing that drove them from the tent.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 04:55:31 AM
Lets have another quick look at the cedar.  The two Yuris climbed the tree. Given the injuries to the hands and bruises and abrasions to their bodies and the fact that skin was found on the bark of the tree, does that sound like they were climbing to look for fire wood? Or to make a lookout? Or to find safety?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on July 22, 2019, 06:12:16 AM
No idea....   The skin may have been deposited on the way down leaving any number of reasons to have gone up.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 09:11:29 AM
No idea....   The skin may have been deposited on the way down leaving any number of reasons to have gone up.

True. It’s a good point.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on July 22, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 02:59:03 PM


Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?    I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man

The Evidence problem is a very difficult one. May be one day more Evidence will come to light. As for Evidence of HASTE, well it looks like they left the Tent in a fair hurry, because of the indications re clothing and all the stuff they left behind in the Tent. Well I suppose in those weather conditions if you leave a Tent you are exposing yourself to a greater danger. We dont know the EXACT weather conditions when they left the Tent. By all accounts the weather can change dramatically in those regions in a very short time.

True but could do with evidence that they left in haste .  The clothes is a good indicator but it doesn’t rule out that they could have been forced to leave without clothes?

Regards

Star man
[/quote]

Well HASTE means leaving in a hurry, getting a move on as opposed to going slowly.  We dont know why they left in a hurry. They could have been forced or they could have been scared. In that respect we have no evidence.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:10:23 PM
Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man

I think some of the injuries could easily have been caused by a BEAR. But Iam not saying that a BEAR caused those injuries. Also on the subject of strange creatures like the alleged YETI, then I would have thought such a creature could also have caused those injuries. And again Iam not saying that a YETI caused those injuries.

Agree that we should not assume that the alleged Yeti was involved.  This needs to be an objective analysis of the theory allowing the suspension of disbelief. 

I am just looking for better evidence either for or against.

I may suggest controversial claims for the sake of the argument though.

Regards

Star man

Well its going to be difficult regarding evidence for the Yeti Theory. All we have is sightings and experiences from other places and other times. We cant do DNA tests because we have no TENT or CLOTHES from any of the Dyatlov Group. And we have no other OBJECTS as far as I know  !  ? What happened to all the EQUIPMENT  !  ?  In any case of potential MURDER or unusual circumstances the Authorities of any Country would be likely to keep some OBJECTS for the future in case of progress in FORENSICS. But not it appears the Russian Authorities dealing with the Dyatlov Case.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:16:42 PM
Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man

That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:23:55 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:31:32 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man

Interesting. I think we need to look at other injuries on other Dyatlov Bodies to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in those injuries. I post this link again for food for thought.   https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:34:07 PM
Thibo’s head injury taken in isolation doesn’t reveal anything astonishing.  However when considered holistically with the rav 4.  There are some interesting observations:

1. At least one of the rav four had a knife. This was used to remove clothing from their dead friends at the cedar.

2. The autopsy reports mentions nothing about rope marks on their ankles and wrists, indicating that they were not tied up or restrained.

3. Three of the group had significant injuries.  Any one of which could be explained by a significant fall.  But all three together and with no damage to wrists or ankles is very unlikely (unless they were all unconscious) which is even more unlikely.  This would point to an act of violence by someone or something.

4.  Although Thibo’s head injury could have been caused by another person using a blunt instrument, Semyon and Lyuda’s injuries would have taken a force beyond that which any human could muster.  I think is safe to exclude explosions too as there would be cuts from small pieces of debris and possibly scorch marks. There is no evidence of any explosion.

5. If they were not constrained and had a knife why would their attackers use primitive methods of attack?  The rav four were not stabbed, shot. Or cut by any blade.

It would seem to me that if they were attacked, then whatever/whoever attacked them was also the same thing that drove them from the tent.

Regards
Star man

Yes we need to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in the whole Dyatlov Case.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:37:32 PM
Lets have another quick look at the cedar.  The two Yuris climbed the tree. Given the injuries to the hands and bruises and abrasions to their bodies and the fact that skin was found on the bark of the tree, does that sound like they were climbing to look for fire wood? Or to make a lookout? Or to find safety?

Regards
Star man

I would say it looks like they were trying to get away from something. A last desperate attempt to escape from some ENTITY.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 22, 2019, 03:56:28 PM
In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101.

But why choose that particular tree to climb when there were other SIBERIAN PINE TREES all around, and easier to get at as far as getting the branches suitable for burning   !  ?  Why choose a tall tree like that ! ?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 04:28:40 PM
In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101.

It is possible that they could have scrambled up the tree in desperation even to get fire wood.  If they were freezing to death and the only dry fire wood was on the cedar then the wood becomes a matter of life and death?

I think the cedar is worth considering in more detail to understand it objectively in the context of this particular theory.

Here is something to think about and worth discussing:

Would you agree that there is a fair amount of evidence that Yuris D climbed the cedar? - moss and pine needles in his hair, cuts, bruises and abrasions on his body and particularly around arm pits.  It's unlikely that he got those abrasions and bruises in those locations while descending the slope?

Now, we don't know exactly who was at the cedar and when.  Yuris D and Yuris K were there.  Some of the other group members may have been there earlier on, or not until later when the clothes were removed.

What we do know however, is that not everybody would "need" to climb the tree to collect the dry wood.  It would only take one person to climb, and break down the branches and throw them to the ground.

We also know from the autopsy reports that Yuris D had severe frost bite on his fingers and toes.  So much so that it is said that if he had survived he would have needed his toes and fingers amputated.

So the first question: did Yuris D sustain the severe frost bite before or after the fire was lit?

Probably before?  If the fire was lit before the frost bite then he shouldn't really have gotten the frost bite.

But if he had severe frost bite before the fire was lit then he probably wasn't the best choice of person to collect fire wood from the cedar.  So why would he climb the tree?

If he and Yuris K were the only ones at the cedar then Yuri K would be better placed to climb the tree and pull the dry wood down?  If there were other members of the group there then most of them would be more capable of climbing and collecting the wood.  But for some reason Yuri D still climbed the tree with frost bitten fingers and toes so severe that they would require amputation?

Or was there another reason for climbing the tree with severely frost bitten fingers and toes?

Are there any other explanations?

Regards

Star man



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on July 22, 2019, 07:00:40 PM
I think you lose feeling in your fingers long before you actually get the frostbite, so I wouldn't imagine him 'not' being able to climb the cedar just prior to frostbite. The fire seems very insufficient and likely unable to do much, especially with a fair wind.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 22, 2019, 11:27:57 PM
That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

That is a very bold statement with no factual basis. Rib fractures are often inflicted y manual resuscitation so I see no reason that even 8-9 ribs could have been broken by for example stomping on person's chest while lying down on the floor. The force equals attaker weight multiplied by acceleration. This is very basic medical knowledge.

https://www.primemedicaltraining.com/does-cpr-break-ribs/
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 22, 2019, 11:31:44 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Actually, quite the opposite. Static force vs. dynamic force. I provided the example that completely dismisses above claim about "no human hands could have crushed the skull". As it happened before even unintentionally, it is possible.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 22, 2019, 11:41:52 PM
I think you lose feeling in your fingers long before you actually get the frostbite, so I wouldn't imagine him 'not' being able to climb the cedar just prior to frostbite. The fire seems very insufficient and likely unable to do much, especially with a fair wind.

If he had lost the feeling (and strength) in his fingers.  It would be difficult for him to climb the cedar tree without help.  So if he was in the cedar it is possible he was hauled up it by his friends which would explain all the abrasions?  I think the two Yuris had already lost too much body heat before the fire was lit. Or maybe they were forced to wait in the cedar frightened to climb down?

Either way it is odd that Yuri D both had severe frost bite and climbed the tree.
Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on July 22, 2019, 11:56:47 PM
Part of the mystery...  But I like the way you think.    thumb1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 23, 2019, 04:07:11 AM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man

Interesting. I think we need to look at other injuries on other Dyatlov Bodies to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in those injuries. I post this link again for food for thought.   https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Yes I am kind of looking into the injuries to assess how they could have happened.

The link you provided seems to support my calculations on the skull crush injury.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 23, 2019, 04:17:33 AM
Part of the mystery...  But I like the way you think.    thumb1

There is some potential for irrational decision making given the circumstances on the pass. I suppose there might not be a logical explanation for everything but we can only dig and speculate.

I have a couple of other potentially  interesting and controversial thoughts in relation to this topic but I will keep hold of them for now and do a bit more research before discussing them.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 24, 2019, 08:51:22 AM
Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man

Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 24, 2019, 01:54:08 PM
That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

That is a very bold statement with no factual basis. Rib fractures are often inflicted y manual resuscitation so I see no reason that even 8-9 ribs could have been broken by for example stomping on person's chest while lying down on the floor. The force equals attaker weight multiplied by acceleration. This is very basic medical knowledge.

https://www.primemedicaltraining.com/does-cpr-break-ribs/

No suggestion of Human Involvement in those Injuries in the original Investigation and Autopsy  !  ? 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 24, 2019, 01:56:20 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Actually, quite the opposite. Static force vs. dynamic force. I provided the example that completely dismisses above claim about "no human hands could have crushed the skull". As it happened before even unintentionally, it is possible.

I think you will find plenty of evidence that suggests that NO HUMAN HANDS could crush another Humans Skull.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 24, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
Have been looking at Rustems head injury in a bit more detail:

In the autopsy report it explains that there are diffuse haemorrhages into "both" temporal muscles.  Now Rustem's fracture looks like it begins from the left temporal region, but he also has a very similar injury on the opposite side of his head.  Now Thibo's autopsy report clearly mentions the haemorrhage on the same side of the crush injury, but nothing about the other side of his head.  Is this because there is nothing to report, or is it because the report focuses more specifically on the obvious significant injury?  I would have thought that for an autopsy report that everything is important to catalogue?  But the reports for the Dyatlov group do seem to be lacking in some respects.

It is possible that Rustem slowly succumbs to the cold and repeatedly falls hitting his head and resulting in the fracutre.  He has lots of minor abrasions on his face that would point to this.  It is also possible that he has sustained blows to both sides of his head.  What I find odd though is that both these injuries are almost directly opposite each other.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 25, 2019, 02:07:58 AM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Actually, quite the opposite. Static force vs. dynamic force. I provided the example that completely dismisses above claim about "no human hands could have crushed the skull". As it happened before even unintentionally, it is possible.

I think you will find plenty of evidence that suggests that NO HUMAN HANDS could crush another Humans Skull.

It is enough to find ONE piece of evidence that it is possible to prove that wrong. I provided an article along with X.ray scans of similar fracture caused by kicking with a knee.

Here we have some more, it is about time to retract your statement, use google to find even more examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/mma/bellator-158-evangelista-cyborg-santos-video-fractured-skull-michael-venom-page-flying-knee-knockout-a7142211.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2952091/Teenager-fractured-19-year-old-s-skull-single-punch-victim-asked-light-McDonald-s-SPARED-prison.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10831229_Punched_With_A_Fist_The_Etiology_of_a_Fatal_Depressed_Cranial_Fracture
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 25, 2019, 02:09:36 AM
That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

That is a very bold statement with no factual basis. Rib fractures are often inflicted y manual resuscitation so I see no reason that even 8-9 ribs could have been broken by for example stomping on person's chest while lying down on the floor. The force equals attaker weight multiplied by acceleration. This is very basic medical knowledge.

https://www.primemedicaltraining.com/does-cpr-break-ribs/

No suggestion of Human Involvement in those Injuries in the original Investigation and Autopsy  !  ?

Absolutely irrelevant. There is no cause mentioned at all which leaves all technically plausible options on the table.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 25, 2019, 04:47:39 AM
Further thoughts on Rustem skull fracture and a pattern that is becoming more clear with the injuries of the rav 4:

Rustem injury to his head could have been caused by him first being knocked to the floor and subsequently receiving a heavy blow to the right hand side of his head in the temporal region.  If his head was slightly raised then the blow would knock the right side of his head against the floor thus sustaining both the fracture on the left and diffuse bleeding in the right temporal muscle.  The scratches on his face are consistent with being dragged by his leg.

Now let’s look at Lyuda.  Significant soft tissue damage to face and eye lids, lips and tissue loss .  Again this is consistent with being dragged around violently by her leg.  The rib fractures could have been caused by two significant blows to the thorax.  Each fracture would have required 800kg of force and possibly even a bit more.  Saying that Lyuda May have suffered many more less powerful blows but probably not.

Semyon shows the same pattern of tissue loss around eye brows a significant laceration on his head and the heavy blow to the ribs causing a flail chest.

Thibo- as well as the ball of the thumb being the same shape as his crush injury- so is bottom of the side of hand (at base of little finger.

There appears to a pattern there.  It looks like they were first knocked to the ground. Worried or dragged- some more than others and beaten by someone or something very very powerful - using more force than any normal human being could generate.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 25, 2019, 04:59:37 AM
The puzzle at the tent:

Why did the tourists frantically leave the tent- not stopping to collect essential clothing shoes and equipment- and then calmly walk down the slope?  It doesn’t make sense.  Yet the foot prints suggest this is what happened?

So let me ask you a question:

The group are disturbed by something outside the tent.  Something very unusual and realise there is some kind of dangerous creature outside.  In fear they leave the tent and are confronted by this very dangerous creature.  Now here is the question.  Do you:

A - run away down the slope screaming as you go?
B - move away slowly and quietly away from the creature and down the slope?

No need to actually answer- just think about it.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 25, 2019, 05:49:59 AM

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.


Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man

I think it's highly plausible that the same 'weapon' inflicted the injuries to the people in the same area. However, it is hard to determine what that was from evidence we have. In case of Tibo, the cap probably prevented soft tissue damage and even on other bodies we cannot see the hemorrhage developed properly due to cold conditions.

Just from observation, I think it would be much easier to inflict that kind of damage by foot (especially the rib fractures) rather than hands. Seems too inefficient to do that with hands as long as easier way exists.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 25, 2019, 08:31:46 AM

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.


Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man

I think it's highly plausible that the same 'weapon' inflicted the injuries to the people in the same area. However, it is hard to determine what that was from evidence we have. In case of Tibo, the cap probably prevented soft tissue damage and even on other bodies we cannot see the hemorrhage developed properly due to cold conditions.

Just from observation, I think it would be much easier to inflict that kind of damage by foot (especially the rib fractures) rather than hands. Seems too inefficient to do that with hands as long as easier way exists.

Hi Gypsy,

Yes I the injuries could be caused by the same weapon too, but could it not have been a very large powerful hand?

Zina was only swiped.  The others were beaten to death?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 25, 2019, 08:36:48 AM
The camera and the knife:

The rav four must have had a knife? To cut the clothes off their dead friends and cut the branches for the den.  So what happened to the knife.  Did it just walk off by itself?

Semyon camera - found still hanging around his neck.  Why would human murders just leave it?  And where are the 9 missing frames?

Of course if the murderer was a Yeti I doubt it would be interested in a camera?

Regards
Star man



Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 25, 2019, 12:07:13 PM


Hi Gypsy,

Yes I the injuries could be caused by the same weapon too, but could it not have been a very large powerful hand?

Zina was only swiped.  The others were beaten to death?

Regards
Star man

I don't mean to be specific about the "weapon". It could be anything. It is just natural to assume that people who found their demise at the same place and time have a common cause of death.

I will ask a question. Do you thing that the injuries were intentional or accidential?
I'm not looking for a straight answer, I'd rather hear what speaks for or against one or another.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 25, 2019, 03:32:49 PM


Hi Gypsy,

Yes I the injuries could be caused by the same weapon too, but could it not have been a very large powerful hand?

Zina was only swiped.  The others were beaten to death?

Regards
Star man

I don't mean to be specific about the "weapon". It could be anything. It is just natural to assume that people who found their demise at the same place and time have a common cause of death.

I will ask a question. Do you thing that the injuries were intentional or accidential?
I'm not looking for a straight answer, I'd rather hear what speaks for or against one or another.

Hi Gypsy,

It depends on the context of the question.  I believ the whole thing was unintentional.  But the specific injuries were intentional, but not with intelligent malign.

I believe that I now know what happened on the pass.  And I will present my views in a new topic under general discussion called

"what really happened on the pass"

Regards

Star man
I now believe that the injuries were intentional.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 27, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
When I started this thread I didn't actually think that I would discover anything of interest, but I wanted to do this topic justice and approach it in an objective way.  I was a skeptic of the Yeti theory.  But I am no where near as skeptical now as when I started this thread.

I think there is clear evidence that the Dyatlov group were attacked by an ape(s) or an ape like creature.  The feedback I have received on whether a normal ape would be capable of overwhelming 9 fit healthy tourists is reasonable.  Given that there were axes, ice picks, knives and 9 physically fit and strong people why could they not have killed or at least driven a normal ape away?  Also why would a normal ape be on Kholat Syakhl in a storm in the middle of nowhere?  Yet the injuries sustained by at least some of the group are consistent with an attack from an ape,like creature.  A creature capable of inflicting immensely powerful blows.  A creature that had hands.

In previous posts ai have made some calculations around the hands of this creature.  Thibo's head injury shape is consistent with shape of the pads of the hand.  Either the ball of the thumb, or the pad on the side of the hand where the little finger is.  The radius of curvature of the injury on Thibo's head is consistent with the radius of curvature of the pad of the hand.  The force required to cause Thibo's head injury is beyon that which a human being can muster with their bare hands.

The pattern of injuries on Lyuda and Semyon is consistent with some kind of ape attack.  The blows required to inflict those injuries would need to be in excess of 800kg force.  The pattern of damage to the head and face and loss of soft tissue is consistent with being dragged around the ground violently.  And yes Luda's eyes, tongue and Semyon's eyes could well have been ripped out by this creature, either during the assault or later after they had died.

With regard to the Yeti - what could be a myth is the size of their feet, and whether they are entirely bipedal or partly quadrupeds.  If they are partly quadrupeds then their feet would not require to be that large as their weight would also be taken up by their hands as they moved about.  However, the shape of their feet may be very close to humans.

Rustems head injury is also consistent with the same type of attack but to a lesser severity.

It seems zina and Dyatlov avoided a fatal confrontation with this creature, but died of hypothermia.

Yuris D definitely climbed the cedar in desperation to find safety.  He probably clanged onto this tree for some time as his fingers and toes were so frost bitten by the time the fire was lit that hemwouldnhave had to have them amputated.

The witness statements say that when the group were descending the slope, some of the group members split off for a while and then came back to join the main group.  This is odd.  Why would they do that?  Unless those that split off were not group members, or even human.  Instead is it possible that they were ape like creatures, stalking the terrified group as they descended the slope, while periodically moving toward them and attacking them as descended? Initially, the group would have been strong and maybe capable of defending themselves, but as time went by the cold played its part, and slowly the group became weaker until they could not longer fend off any attacks?

When I examine a theory I like to find evidence to support it.  Some the evidence is presented in previous posts on this thread.  But there is something else that could be done:

1.  I would suggest that an expert Primatologist examines any available photographs of the foot prints.  Also, an expert Primatologist consider the pattern of injuries and the power required to inflict them.

For Lyuda's injury I have estimated a force in excess of 800kgs.  I don't even think a Chimpanzee can inflict such sever injury or generate such force.  A mountain Gorilla maybe, but even this would probably be at the limit of what it could do.  Also chimps and Gorillas are normally gentle creatures unless deliberately provoked.  So what was on the pass that night?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: NkZ on July 28, 2019, 05:17:53 AM
I've always been sentimental on the possibility of Yeti, even if demographic statistics are not in favor!
There is indeed a long history of sightings in the area : http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/Tracks_near_Ob_e.htm
http://www.stgr-primates.de/news.html
So many legends might have a little real ground?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 28, 2019, 10:02:26 AM
I've always been sentimental on the possibility of Yeti, even if demographic statistics are not in favor!
There is indeed a long history of sightings in the area : http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/Tracks_near_Ob_e.htm
http://www.stgr-primates.de/news.html
So many legends might have a little real ground?

I am a lot more receptive to it than I was.  I would like to know if a normal great ape could cause those injuries?

Thanks for the links.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 30, 2019, 05:57:14 AM
The Dyatlov pass incident is  a complicated mystery. For certain whatever happened that night was unusual.

Identifying the single common denominator that could help explain the events at the tent, the slope, the cedar, and the ravine along with the strange injuries may go some way to help solve the mystery.

I now believe that the single common denominator could well be the involvement of an ape or ape like creature.  I have presented my thoughts on this below:

The Tent
Whatever made the group leave the tent without adequate clothing or shoes the way they did must have been terrifying and a significant threat to their lives.  The tent appears to have been cut from inside (at least for three of the cuts). Page 303 of the case files provides good evidence of this.  I suspect that much of the damage though was done during the recovery of the tent.

So what happened at the tent?  Semyon grabs his camera.  If he had seen something strange like an ape on Kholat Syakhl that would be a reasonable reason to grab a camera and try to take a photo.  Maybe he or the others did not realise the danger at first. But then whatever it was became aggressive and attacked them.

I suspect that some of them ran back into the tent and were followed by this creature which now blocked their only means of escape. Kolevatov may have pulled his knife from its sheath outside and then retreated into the tent.  Those in the tent then attempted to cut the fabric to make a new exit while others tried to fend off the attacker.  There is evidence that the group engaged in some kind of fight with their hands.  Why the axes or ice pick were left at the entrance is difficult to explain but could simply be because of the level of panic.

After leaving the now damaged tent the group cautiously retreat down the slope.  Note that the foot prints of an ape are similar to that of a human but the big toe is more thumb like and would be shorter.

The slope

There is evidence that while they descended the slope they were attacked again.  The flash light 400m from the tent was dropped but not picked back up indicating confusion, haste, or fear of returning to where the flash light was dropped.  The group had items of equipment that other humans would unlikely allow them to take with them if their attackers had been human - knife, flashlight, camera, matches.  The whole scene indicates that they were under duress but not from any human foe.


Rustem probably didn’t make it to the cedar.  It appears that he was attacked and fought back.  His injuries are consistent with a fist fight and receiving a heavy blow to the head while he was on the ground. The diffuse bleeding in both temporal muscles is an indicator of this.

When the group get to the cedar there is clear evidence that they scrambled up the tree for safety.  The scrapes, minor lacerations around arm pits is an indicator of this plus the skin found on the bark.  But the main clue is Yuri D who’s fingers and toes were so badly frost bitten that he would have needed to have them amputated if he had survived.  This must have happened before the fire was lit indicating that Yuri D was clinging to the tree for a while along with Yuri K who had bit a piece of skin off the back of his hand.

The fire was probably lit to keep warm and also to keep something away.  But whenever it was lit it was too late for Yuri D and Yuri K.

The ravine

Thibo’s head injury is the same shape as the pad of a hand.  The force required to cause that injury would be in excess of 450kg.  No human could do that with their bare hands.  The lack of soft tissue damage is also supported by an impact From something soft  like the pad of a hand but with tremendous force.  Thibo’s head injury if happened in isolation could be explained by a fall, but combined with Lyuda and Semyon it indicates something more sinister and akin to them being attacked and beaten by something with super human strength.  Lyuda and Semyon injuries could also be explained by a fall.  The force required to cause Lyuda and Semyon’s injuries from a single impact would be 2500 kg, but the lack of injuries to limbs, ankles and wrists is unusual.  Together there is a clear pattern that they have been attacked, knocked to the ground dragged around violently and beaten severely again with super human force.

The signs of hand to hand combat combined with these injuries is clear evidence of confrontation with something very powerful.

Another key indicator of a confrontation with some kind of powerful animal is the fact that although the group had at least one knife the attacker has used primitive methods (ie beaten them to death). 

Regards
Star man



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 30, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Actually, quite the opposite. Static force vs. dynamic force. I provided the example that completely dismisses above claim about "no human hands could have crushed the skull". As it happened before even unintentionally, it is possible.

I think you will find plenty of evidence that suggests that NO HUMAN HANDS could crush another Humans Skull.

It is enough to find ONE piece of evidence that it is possible to prove that wrong. I provided an article along with X.ray scans of similar fracture caused by kicking with a knee.

Here we have some more, it is about time to retract your statement, use google to find even more examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/mma/bellator-158-evangelista-cyborg-santos-video-fractured-skull-michael-venom-page-flying-knee-knockout-a7142211.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2952091/Teenager-fractured-19-year-old-s-skull-single-punch-victim-asked-light-McDonald-s-SPARED-prison.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10831229_Punched_With_A_Fist_The_Etiology_of_a_Fatal_Depressed_Cranial_Fracture

One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ? 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 30, 2019, 12:54:48 PM
That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

That is a very bold statement with no factual basis. Rib fractures are often inflicted y manual resuscitation so I see no reason that even 8-9 ribs could have been broken by for example stomping on person's chest while lying down on the floor. The force equals attaker weight multiplied by acceleration. This is very basic medical knowledge.

https://www.primemedicaltraining.com/does-cpr-break-ribs/

No suggestion of Human Involvement in those Injuries in the original Investigation and Autopsy  !  ?

Absolutely irrelevant. There is no cause mentioned at all which leaves all technically plausible options on the table.

You contradict yourself then. All the possible causes must be relevant even if not proved.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 30, 2019, 12:57:32 PM

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.


Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man

I think it's highly plausible that the same 'weapon' inflicted the injuries to the people in the same area. However, it is hard to determine what that was from evidence we have. In case of Tibo, the cap probably prevented soft tissue damage and even on other bodies we cannot see the hemorrhage developed properly due to cold conditions.

Just from observation, I think it would be much easier to inflict that kind of damage by foot (especially the rib fractures) rather than hands. Seems too inefficient to do that with hands as long as easier way exists.

And yet the original Investigation suggests injuries likened to a CAR CRASH. Hardly the work of someones foot then.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on July 30, 2019, 01:16:05 PM
I've always been sentimental on the possibility of Yeti, even if demographic statistics are not in favor!
There is indeed a long history of sightings in the area : http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/Tracks_near_Ob_e.htm
http://www.stgr-primates.de/news.html
So many legends might have a little real ground?

Well done digging up this information.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 30, 2019, 11:41:44 PM
The Dyatlov pass incident is  a complicated mystery. For certain whatever happened that night was unusual.

Identifying the single common denominator that could help explain the events at the tent, the slope, the cedar, and the ravine along with the strange injuries may go some way to help solve the mystery.

I now believe that the single common denominator could well be the involvement of an ape or ape like creature.  I have presented my thoughts on this below:

The Tent
Whatever made the group leave the tent without adequate clothing or shoes the way they did must have been terrifying and a significant threat to their lives.  The tent appears to have been cut from inside (at least for three of the cuts). Page 303 of the case files provides good evidence of this.  I suspect that much of the damage though was done during the recovery of the tent.

So what happened at the tent?  Semyon grabs his camera.  If he had seen something strange like an ape on Kholat Syakhl that would be a reasonable reason to grab a camera and try to take a photo.  Maybe he or the others did not realise the danger at first. But then whatever it was became aggressive and attacked them.

I suspect that some of them ran back into the tent and were followed by this creature which now blocked their only means of escape. Kolevatov may have pulled his knife from its sheath outside and then retreated into the tent.  Those in the tent then attempted to cut the fabric to make a new exit while others tried to fend off the attacker.  There is evidence that the group engaged in some kind of fight with their hands.  Why the axes or ice pick were left at the entrance is difficult to explain but could simply be because of the level of panic.

After leaving the now damaged tent the group cautiously retreat down the slope.  Note that the foot prints of an ape are similar to that of a human but the big toe is more thumb like and would be shorter.

The slope

There is evidence that while they descended the slope they were attacked again.  The flash light 400m from the tent was dropped but not picked back up indicating confusion, haste, or fear of returning to where the flash light was dropped.  The group had items of equipment that other humans would unlikely allow them to take with them if their attackers had been human - knife, flashlight, camera, matches.  The whole scene indicates that they were under duress but not from any human foe.


Rustem probably didn’t make it to the cedar.  It appears that he was attacked and fought back.  His injuries are consistent with a fist fight and receiving a heavy blow to the head while he was on the ground. The diffuse bleeding in both temporal muscles is an indicator of this.

When the group get to the cedar there is clear evidence that they scrambled up the tree for safety.  The scrapes, minor lacerations around arm pits is an indicator of this plus the skin found on the bark.  But the main clue is Yuri D who’s fingers and toes were so badly frost bitten that he would have needed to have them amputated if he had survived.  This must have happened before the fire was lit indicating that Yuri D was clinging to the tree for a while along with Yuri K who had bit a piece of skin off the back of his hand.

The fire was probably lit to keep warm and also to keep something away.  But whenever it was lit it was too late for Yuri D and Yuri K.

The ravine

Thibo’s head injury is the same shape as the pad of a hand.  The force required to cause that injury would be in excess of 450kg.  No human could do that with their bare hands.  The lack of soft tissue damage is also supported by an impact From something soft  like the pad of a hand but with tremendous force.  Thibo’s head injury if happened in isolation could be explained by a fall, but combined with Lyuda and Semyon it indicates something more sinister and akin to them being attacked and beaten by something with super human strength.  Lyuda and Semyon injuries could also be explained by a fall.  The force required to cause Lyuda and Semyon’s injuries from a single impact would be 2500 kg, but the lack of injuries to limbs, ankles and wrists is unusual.  Together there is a clear pattern that they have been attacked, knocked to the ground dragged around violently and beaten severely again with super human force.

The signs of hand to hand combat combined with these injuries is clear evidence of confrontation with something very powerful.

Another key indicator of a confrontation with some kind of powerful animal is the fact that although the group had at least one knife the attacker has used primitive methods (ie beaten them to death). 

Regards
Star man

There is something missing from the above picture.  When apes attack quite often they bite.  Chimpanzees in particular like to bite off the fingers of their foe (charming).  Gorillas also bite.  Yet there is no evidence of any bite injuries on any of the Dyatlov group.  Or at least none reported.  Chimpanzees also have a fondness of mutilating the face of their victims. 

The other issue is the level of aggression.  Chimpanzees form so called war parties in the wild and go on the rampage attacking other chimp groups or hunting monkeys.

However the level of aggression on the pass if normal apes were involved is somewhat odd.

Could the attacker have been more intelligent than a normal ape?  More research is required on this I think.

Regards
Star man



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on July 31, 2019, 03:30:25 AM

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.


Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man

I think it's highly plausible that the same 'weapon' inflicted the injuries to the people in the same area. However, it is hard to determine what that was from evidence we have. In case of Tibo, the cap probably prevented soft tissue damage and even on other bodies we cannot see the hemorrhage developed properly due to cold conditions.

Just from observation, I think it would be much easier to inflict that kind of damage by foot (especially the rib fractures) rather than hands. Seems too inefficient to do that with hands as long as easier way exists.

And yet the original Investigation suggests injuries likened to a CAR CRASH. Hardly the work of someones foot then.

That is an example, not a conclusion. Not to mention there is no data such as speed, mechanism of impact or anything.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on July 31, 2019, 11:46:41 PM
In the case files it talks about a blanket being placed over the two Yuris?  Any idea how this blanket got there?  Or why it was placed on the Yuris given it would have been useful resource for keeping warm?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on August 01, 2019, 01:47:24 AM


One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ?

In other words it is possible under specific circumstances. "Bare hands" narrative is irrelevant as there are simple ways to do it otherwise /knee, elbow, tactical gloves, blunt object etc. which means a (powerful enough) human can cause a skull fracture and no entities of questionable existence are needed to explain the injuries at all.

PS. Fist=bare hands, no difference there
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 01, 2019, 04:24:11 PM


One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ?

In other words it is possible under specific circumstances. "Bare hands" narrative is irrelevant as there are simple ways to do it otherwise /knee, elbow, tactical gloves, blunt object etc. which means a (powerful enough) human can cause a skull fracture and no entities of questionable existence are needed to explain the injuries at all.

PS. Fist=bare hands, no difference there

Hi Gypsy,

I think it is possible to fracture the skull with a fist/punch but from what I have read it is right at the limit of what is possible for a professional heavy weight boxer.  A boxer can generate up to 500kg of force with a punch.  I have calculated the force to cause Thibo's skull fracture which was at least 450kg +\- variance.  This is backed up by other data on the net.  I am less sure about such an injury being caused by a knee.  I haven't done exhaustive research on this.

What is interesting to me though is the distinctive shape of Thibo's skull fracture and the lack of soft tissue damage.  Thibo's skull crush injury is kind of rain drop shaped.  I don't think that this would correspond very well with being hit with a first and irregular knuckles.  But I might be wrong.  Also not sure about the shape a knee would make.  However, what I do know is:

The shape of Thibo's fracture is pretty much "identical" to the shape of the pad of the ball of a thumb.

I made some measurements myself by making a thumb print with the ball of my own thumb and measuring the dimensions.  Now the shape my thumb print made was the same.  The shape is more or less an ellipse.  I measured the major and minor axis of my own print and took the ratio of major/minor axis ratio ( I.e length over width) and got the following results:

My thumb print = 1.25
Thibo's injury = 1.28

Try it yourself.  Will be interested in your result.

The difference is the size of the imprint/injury on Thibo's skull is much bigger.  I scaled it up based on my own hand and got a hand 30cm long and 15ish wide.  Obviously if Thibo's injury was caused by the application of static pressure by squeezing then that would also explain the lack of soft riddle damage.  A high speed impact, especially with a hard blunt object you might expect some soft tissue damage.

I also measured the pad of my own hand at the side under the little finger to see if that was the same shape.  The shape looked very similar but was more elongated, with major/minor axis ratio of 1.75. So not the same shape.

Thibo's head injury - if it happened in isolation might draw one to conclude that it could have been a fall.  And this is true.  But, the other injuries of Lyuda and Semyon are equally as astonishing in terms of the pattern and force.  A hand 30cm long impacting the ribs with a force in excess of 800kg could have caused those injuries.  It takes between 270 and 330 kg of force to break a single rib.  But to create a clean fracture line rough multiple ribs requires a single blow of very high force - beyond that which a human could deliver.  Note a human could break ribs, but the breaks would be irregular.  Have a look at them and think about it.

What is odd is the lack of any bite marks.  If the attack was animalistic in nature then there should be bite marks too - but nothing obvious.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: gypsy on August 02, 2019, 12:22:22 PM


One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ?

In other words it is possible under specific circumstances. "Bare hands" narrative is irrelevant as there are simple ways to do it otherwise /knee, elbow, tactical gloves, blunt object etc. which means a (powerful enough) human can cause a skull fracture and no entities of questionable existence are needed to explain the injuries at all.

PS. Fist=bare hands, no difference there

Hi Gypsy,

I think it is possible to fracture the skull with a fist/punch but from what I have read it is right at the limit of what is possible for a professional heavy weight boxer.  A boxer can generate up to 500kg of force with a punch.  I have calculated the force to cause Thibo's skull fracture which was at least 450kg +\- variance.  This is backed up by other data on the net.  I am less sure about such an injury being caused by a knee.  I haven't done exhaustive research on this.

What is interesting to me though is the distinctive shape of Thibo's skull fracture and the lack of soft tissue damage.  Thibo's skull crush injury is kind of rain drop shaped.  I don't think that this would correspond very well with being hit with a first and irregular knuckles.  But I might be wrong.  Also not sure about the shape a knee would make.  However, what I do know is:

The shape of Thibo's fracture is pretty much "identical" to the shape of the pad of the ball of a thumb.

I made some measurements myself by making a thumb print with the ball of my own thumb and measuring the dimensions.  Now the shape my thumb print made was the same.  The shape is more or less an ellipse.  I measured the major and minor axis of my own print and took the ratio of major/minor axis ratio ( I.e length over width) and got the following results:

My thumb print = 1.25
Thibo's injury = 1.28

Try it yourself.  Will be interested in your result.

The difference is the size of the imprint/injury on Thibo's skull is much bigger.  I scaled it up based on my own hand and got a hand 30cm long and 15ish wide.  Obviously if Thibo's injury was caused by the application of static pressure by squeezing then that would also explain the lack of soft riddle damage.  A high speed impact, especially with a hard blunt object you might expect some soft tissue damage.

I also measured the pad of my own hand at the side under the little finger to see if that was the same shape.  The shape looked very similar but was more elongated, with major/minor axis ratio of 1.75. So not the same shape.

Thibo's head injury - if it happened in isolation might draw one to conclude that it could have been a fall.  And this is true.  But, the other injuries of Lyuda and Semyon are equally as astonishing in terms of the pattern and force.  A hand 30cm long impacting the ribs with a force in excess of 800kg could have caused those injuries.  It takes between 270 and 330 kg of force to break a single rib.  But to create a clean fracture line rough multiple ribs requires a single blow of very high force - beyond that which a human could deliver.  Note a human could break ribs, but the breaks would be irregular.  Have a look at them and think about it.

What is odd is the lack of any bite marks.  If the attack was animalistic in nature then there should be bite marks too - but nothing obvious.

Regards

Star man

Are these measurements for static o dynamic force? In case of the latter, the force should be divided by acceleration which gives us more "human" results.

I agree that the most common cause of the flail chest or multiple rib fracture is a sudden deceleration or impact (such as car crash) or a fall. However, it is possible it is possible to "achieve" the same result with CPR / cardio-pulmonary resuscitation by applying repetitive pressure so the bone "wears out" until it breaks. Most of the cases include older patients of people with thinner bones like females or children or with lower mineral content of the bone tissue. We do not have enough forensic data from the victims so cannot calculate the exact force needed to break specific bones, I can only provide the examples of the documented cases and none of them include other than human involvement or one of the most common causes already mentioned.

As for the shape of the injuries, yes it fits the shape of a rather enlarged areas of the hand you described and I see nothing wrong at all to explore that option (among others). But do you think if there was a fight, no matter if between humans and/or apes, that would be the kind of area that does the most damage upon impact? I mean there are better ways to do do it such as punching, hitting with a knee or elbow, the ape would probably bite. I am not an expert on that, I would be happy to hear an opinion of somebody who knows how the chimpanzees or related species fight.

Am I wrong or Tibo was wearing two hats at the time of death? That would prevent the bruises for some time and spread the force a little so the area of impact would appear larger than it really was. Also the cold would suppress the creation of a bruise. There can be hardly any bruise in case a smooth-surface weapon, such as baseball bat, is used on the area of head covered by winter hat.

https://dergipark.org.tr/download/article-file/733978

Fractures of ribs 3, 4, 5, 6 caused only by CPR which is hardly 800kg of force, doctors and nurses do it every day and they are no bodybuilders or Anthony Joshuas: http://jtd.amegroups.com/article/viewFile/26057/pdf



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 03, 2019, 02:10:31 AM


One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ?

In other words it is possible under specific circumstances. "Bare hands" narrative is irrelevant as there are simple ways to do it otherwise /knee, elbow, tactical gloves, blunt object etc. which means a (powerful enough) human can cause a skull fracture and no entities of questionable existence are needed to explain the injuries at all.

PS. Fist=bare hands, no difference there

Hi Gypsy,

I think it is possible to fracture the skull with a fist/punch but from what I have read it is right at the limit of what is possible for a professional heavy weight boxer.  A boxer can generate up to 500kg of force with a punch.  I have calculated the force to cause Thibo's skull fracture which was at least 450kg +\- variance.  This is backed up by other data on the net.  I am less sure about such an injury being caused by a knee.  I haven't done exhaustive research on this.

What is interesting to me though is the distinctive shape of Thibo's skull fracture and the lack of soft tissue damage.  Thibo's skull crush injury is kind of rain drop shaped.  I don't think that this would correspond very well with being hit with a first and irregular knuckles.  But I might be wrong.  Also not sure about the shape a knee would make.  However, what I do know is:

The shape of Thibo's fracture is pretty much "identical" to the shape of the pad of the ball of a thumb.

I made some measurements myself by making a thumb print with the ball of my own thumb and measuring the dimensions.  Now the shape my thumb print made was the same.  The shape is more or less an ellipse.  I measured the major and minor axis of my own print and took the ratio of major/minor axis ratio ( I.e length over width) and got the following results:

My thumb print = 1.25
Thibo's injury = 1.28

Try it yourself.  Will be interested in your result.

The difference is the size of the imprint/injury on Thibo's skull is much bigger.  I scaled it up based on my own hand and got a hand 30cm long and 15ish wide.  Obviously if Thibo's injury was caused by the application of static pressure by squeezing then that would also explain the lack of soft riddle damage.  A high speed impact, especially with a hard blunt object you might expect some soft tissue damage.

I also measured the pad of my own hand at the side under the little finger to see if that was the same shape.  The shape looked very similar but was more elongated, with major/minor axis ratio of 1.75. So not the same shape.

Thibo's head injury - if it happened in isolation might draw one to conclude that it could have been a fall.  And this is true.  But, the other injuries of Lyuda and Semyon are equally as astonishing in terms of the pattern and force.  A hand 30cm long impacting the ribs with a force in excess of 800kg could have caused those injuries.  It takes between 270 and 330 kg of force to break a single rib.  But to create a clean fracture line rough multiple ribs requires a single blow of very high force - beyond that which a human could deliver.  Note a human could break ribs, but the breaks would be irregular.  Have a look at them and think about it.

What is odd is the lack of any bite marks.  If the attack was animalistic in nature then there should be bite marks too - but nothing obvious.

Regards

Star man

Are these measurements for static o dynamic force? In case of the latter, the force should be divided by acceleration which gives us more "human" results.

I agree that the most common cause of the flail chest or multiple rib fracture is a sudden deceleration or impact (such as car crash) or a fall. However, it is possible it is possible to "achieve" the same result with CPR / cardio-pulmonary resuscitation by applying repetitive pressure so the bone "wears out" until it breaks. Most of the cases include older patients of people with thinner bones like females or children or with lower mineral content of the bone tissue. We do not have enough forensic data from the victims so cannot calculate the exact force needed to break specific bones, I can only provide the examples of the documented cases and none of them include other than human involvement or one of the most common causes already mentioned.

As for the shape of the injuries, yes it fits the shape of a rather enlarged areas of the hand you described and I see nothing wrong at all to explore that option (among others). But do you think if there was a fight, no matter if between humans and/or apes, that would be the kind of area that does the most damage upon impact? I mean there are better ways to do do it such as punching, hitting with a knee or elbow, the ape would probably bite. I am not an expert on that, I would be happy to hear an opinion of somebody who knows how the chimpanzees or related species fight.

Am I wrong or Tibo was wearing two hats at the time of death? That would prevent the bruises for some time and spread the force a little so the area of impact would appear larger than it really was. Also the cold would suppress the creation of a bruise. There can be hardly any bruise in case a smooth-surface weapon, such as baseball bat, is used on the area of head covered by winter hat.

https://dergipark.org.tr/download/article-file/733978

Fractures of ribs 3, 4, 5, 6 caused only by CPR which is hardly 800kg of force, doctors and nurses do it every day and they are no bodybuilders or Anthony Joshuas: http://jtd.amegroups.com/article/viewFile/26057/pdf

The forces are just those required to cause the fractures.  They could be generated by either static or dynamic processes.  High static force is more difficult to generate than high dynamic force. So for instance the 500 kg force produced by a boxers punch is dynamic force.  I doubt a boxer could generate 500 kg of static force.  Hope that makes sense? 

For the flail chest injuries I am not familiar with CPR examples.  Lyuda and Semyon were young and fit though so are there examples of the same injuries for young fit people?  The other question I have on this is can CPR or repative application of force create the double fracture lines?  I'm not an expert on the medical side.

The shape of Thibo's skull fracture is interesting though.  I suppose it could just be a coincidence but there aren't many data points to compare things with.

I think the key question in terms of this discussion is whether what happened was a result of humans or some kind of ape or ape like creature - dare I say the legendary Yeti?  I think the overall context of the events is just as important as the specific clues.

What are the indicators that they were attacked by humans vs some other odd creature in terms of:

The tent
The slope
The cedar
The ravine


Regards

Star man
Regards

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 03, 2019, 10:40:18 AM

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.


Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man

I think it's highly plausible that the same 'weapon' inflicted the injuries to the people in the same area. However, it is hard to determine what that was from evidence we have. In case of Tibo, the cap probably prevented soft tissue damage and even on other bodies we cannot see the hemorrhage developed properly due to cold conditions.

Just from observation, I think it would be much easier to inflict that kind of damage by foot (especially the rib fractures) rather than hands. Seems too inefficient to do that with hands as long as easier way exists.

And yet the original Investigation suggests injuries likened to a CAR CRASH. Hardly the work of someones foot then.

That is an example, not a conclusion. Not to mention there is no data such as speed, mechanism of impact or anything.

Well exactly. Its not a conclusion because the Authorities intimate that the Dyatlov Group were overcome by an unknown force. So it that respect its any ones  guess.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 03, 2019, 10:44:37 AM


One injury was due to a KNEE. The other was due to an old injury made worse by the blow to the head with a FIST. Nothing about Heads being crushed by Human HANDS  !  ?

In other words it is possible under specific circumstances. "Bare hands" narrative is irrelevant as there are simple ways to do it otherwise /knee, elbow, tactical gloves, blunt object etc. which means a (powerful enough) human can cause a skull fracture and no entities of questionable existence are needed to explain the injuries at all.

PS. Fist=bare hands, no difference there

The injuries to Dubinina's Chest Ribs are highly unlikely to have been caused by another Human. And its highly unlikely that other injuries were caused by another Human.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 03, 2019, 10:51:23 AM
Re Starman ; I think the key question in terms of this discussion is whether what happened was a result of humans or some kind of ape or ape like creature - dare I say the legendary Yeti?  I think the overall context of the events is just as important as the specific clues.

What are the indicators that they were attacked by humans vs some other odd creature in terms of:

The tent
The slope
The cedar
The ravine


Regards

Star man
Regards

Yes exactly. We have to take all the separate PARTS that make up the one big EVENT. The big EVENT being that the Dyatlov Group died under very mysterious circumstances     by an overwhelming and unknown force.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 05, 2019, 05:14:11 PM
Have recently been reading the  Potyazhenko interview.  Was interested in one of the described radiograms which said that particular attention should be given to the foot prints on the pass.  So where is all the evidence?  There are photographs in the case files but for something that was specifically requetsed to be "particularly important" I would expect more photographs?  Close up shots of the prints? There are witness testimonies too but these are not really of great forensic value.  Where are the measurements of foot sizes so that they can be compared with "known" foot sizes of the Dyatlov group?  The witness statements describe the prints crossing patches of deep snow and then disappearing over rocky stretches thn reappearing again.  Are there any more photographs of the foot prints?

As a side note I have made a few checks on the hands of gorillas.  The reference I found measured the tip of the middle finger to the base of the palm of the hand as 30cm.  They do have very big hands.  This means that Gorillas meet the criteria for the injuries in terms of power and hand size.  Obviously it doesn't rule out the legendary Yeti.  Just means that the Yeti has some competition.

Another side note:  walked past someone on the street today - "human". Although he would have passed for a Yeti.  He was approaching 8 foot tall and had hands the size of shovels.  His foot prints would certainly be mistaken for "big foot".

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 09, 2019, 05:15:18 PM
Just a thought on whether the injuries of the rav 4 could have been inflicted by other humans.  I agree with the autopsy reports that the forces required to inflict those injuries are beyond any human, but even so was thinking about the way the bodies were layer out close together with Kolevatov embracing Semyon.  At face value, it would appear that Kolevatov being the least injured arranged his friends in this way.  If he was the last one of them to die as indicated by his embrace why would any human attackers not finish him off in the same way?  Maybe he was hiding?  Just seems unlikely any human attackers would have missed him and not killed him. 

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 10, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
Have recently been reading the  Potyazhenko interview.  Was interested in one of the described radiograms which said that particular attention should be given to the foot prints on the pass.  So where is all the evidence?  There are photographs in the case files but for something that was specifically requetsed to be "particularly important" I would expect more photographs?  Close up shots of the prints? There are witness testimonies too but these are not really of great forensic value.  Where are the measurements of foot sizes so that they can be compared with "known" foot sizes of the Dyatlov group?  The witness statements describe the prints crossing patches of deep snow and then disappearing over rocky stretches thn reappearing again.  Are there any more photographs of the foot prints?

As a side note I have made a few checks on the hands of gorillas.  The reference I found measured the tip of the middle finger to the base of the palm of the hand as 30cm.  They do have very big hands.  This means that Gorillas meet the criteria for the injuries in terms of power and hand size.  Obviously it doesn't rule out the legendary Yeti.  Just means that the Yeti has some competition.

Another side note:  walked past someone on the street today - "human". Although he would have passed for a Yeti.  He was approaching 8 foot tall and had hands the size of shovels.  His foot prints would certainly be mistaken for "big foot".

Regards

Star man

Good points about FOOTPRINTS. Why no more photos of such vital evidence  !  ?  Unless of course there are more photos, but not for public consumption. After all what if someone had taken photos of extremely large un Human FOOTPRINTS.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 10, 2019, 11:53:13 AM
Just a thought on whether the injuries of the rav 4 could have been inflicted by other humans.  I agree with the autopsy reports that the forces required to inflict those injuries are beyond any human, but even so was thinking about the way the bodies were layer out close together with Kolevatov embracing Semyon.  At face value, it would appear that Kolevatov being the least injured arranged his friends in this way.  If he was the last one of them to die as indicated by his embrace why would any human attackers not finish him off in the same way?  Maybe he was hiding?  Just seems unlikely any human attackers would have missed him and not killed him. 

Regards

Star man

I also agree that Non Human Force was used. Question is what was the Force from  !  ?  Yeti ? Bear ? Alien ? Some other unknown physical Force ?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 10, 2019, 12:01:17 PM
Have recently been reading the  Potyazhenko interview.  Was interested in one of the described radiograms which said that particular attention should be given to the foot prints on the pass.  So where is all the evidence?  There are photographs in the case files but for something that was specifically requetsed to be "particularly important" I would expect more photographs?  Close up shots of the prints? There are witness testimonies too but these are not really of great forensic value.  Where are the measurements of foot sizes so that they can be compared with "known" foot sizes of the Dyatlov group?  The witness statements describe the prints crossing patches of deep snow and then disappearing over rocky stretches thn reappearing again.  Are there any more photographs of the foot prints?

As a side note I have made a few checks on the hands of gorillas.  The reference I found measured the tip of the middle finger to the base of the palm of the hand as 30cm.  They do have very big hands.  This means that Gorillas meet the criteria for the injuries in terms of power and hand size.  Obviously it doesn't rule out the legendary Yeti.  Just means that the Yeti has some competition.

Another side note:  walked past someone on the street today - "human". Although he would have passed for a Yeti.  He was approaching 8 foot tall and had hands the size of shovels.  His foot prints would certainly be mistaken for "big foot".

Regards

Star man

Good points about FOOTPRINTS. Why no more photos of such vital evidence  !  ?  Unless of course there are more photos, but not for public consumption. After all what if someone had taken photos of extremely large un Human FOOTPRINTS.

It doesn't make sense that given specific instructions to focus on the prints that there is so little in the case files?  Why would anyone exclude the details of the prints?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 10, 2019, 12:02:52 PM
Just a thought on whether the injuries of the rav 4 could have been inflicted by other humans.  I agree with the autopsy reports that the forces required to inflict those injuries are beyond any human, but even so was thinking about the way the bodies were layer out close together with Kolevatov embracing Semyon.  At face value, it would appear that Kolevatov being the least injured arranged his friends in this way.  If he was the last one of them to die as indicated by his embrace why would any human attackers not finish him off in the same way?  Maybe he was hiding?  Just seems unlikely any human attackers would have missed him and not killed him. 

Regards

Star man



I also agree that Non Human Force was used. Question is what was the Force from  !  ?  Yeti ? Bear ? Alien ? Some other unknown physical Force ?

Extremely unlikely to have been a bear given no bite marks or claw marks on victims. The others are still an option.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 10, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
As strange as it may seem (even to myself) there appears to be a Pattern of events supported by some of the finer details that suggests that the group may have been attacked by a large powerful ape like creature.  The only known species of ape powerful enough to inflict the injuries (as far as I can tell) is a Gorilla.  But if it was a Gorilla then what was it doing on Kholat Syakhl in the middle of the winter?  The other possibility is some unknown creature.

The tent

I think there is clear evidence of panic at the tent.  The scene is chaotic, disorganised.  Students flee without proper outdoor clothing and most without footwear.  There are cuts in the tent made from inside with a knife?  There is a jacket and sneakers left several meters from the tent as if someone grabbed them during their escape only to drop them again shortly afterwards.  There is Kolevatov's knife sheath outside the tent, while his knife is found inside the tent.  Semyon wears a camera around his neck when he leaves the tent, as if something has caught his interest and that something is worthy of a photograph.  Let's not forget the "evening "otorton". Was it planted or does it reflect that one or more of the group had seen something that may have been a Yeti?

The pattern of events at the tent does not lend itself to human involvement.  The students leave in a disorganised way.  Some have boots, some do not, some carry knives which they later use, as well as a flashlight and matches.  Some are better dressed than others.  Nothing is taken from the tent, not even money.  There are no obvious foot prints of any other humans there.  If they had been forced from the tent and sent to their deaths it is unlikely that they would be allowed to leave with knives, flash lights, matches, cameras etc.  it is far more likely that there was something that terrified the students and presented an immediate threat to their lives.  Hence the level of chaos and disarray at the scene.

The slope

The foot prints by all accounts show an orderly decent of the slope.  But why would a group of students leave a tent in a state of panic and then calmly walk down the slop?  Well, if you presented with the threat of a dangerous creature be it a large ape or a Yeti running away is not a sensible thing to do as this would trigger a response in the creature to attack.  Far better to calmly walk away watching your back keeping your head low and trying not to make direct eye contact.  And by the way apes have similar bare foot prints to humans, but also tent to knuckle walk unless it was a bipedal Yeti?  On the slope there is evidence that they were attacked - the dropped flashlight which was important enough to take with them but not important enough to pick up again after it was dropped?  As far as I am aware the flash light was found to be working later during the investigation.  I suspect that during these attacks the students fought off their attacker(s), hence the evidence of brawling, punching and kicking maybe to keep their attacker at distance.  It is possible that they also split up before they got to the cedar, maybe scattered by the attacker or a deliberate act to prevent the attacker being able to follow all of them together.  There is not a lot of evidence either way on this though I think.  Rustem may have been severely beaten by the attacker on the slop.  His head injury coupled with the fact that he had diffuse bleeding in both temporal muscles suggest that he took a powerful blow to the head while he was on the ground.  The blow knocked his head to the ground thus he received injuries on opposite sides of the temporal bone, but more severely on the left I believe.  He obviously fought off the attacker as best he could.

The cedar

The two Yuris climbed the cedar, possibly there were others but Yuris D climbed the cedar even though his fingers and toes were frost bitten.  I believe he did this to evade the attacker(s).  If the tree was climbed simply to collect fire wood then others better dressed and with no frost bite (even Yuris K)  could have climbed the tree to collect fire wood.  The skin embedded in the bark of the tree suggests that they did not just climb the tree they scrambled up the tree for safety.  The case files suggest that branches were cleared to make a look out and these branches were not used for the fire.  By the time the fire was lit the two Yuris who were poorly dressed had probably already lost too much body heat and died of hypothermia.  if any of the skin was collected from the tree bark then it may be possible even today to undertake DNA analysis of this to determine who was on the tree.  The removal of the clothing from the Yuris is evidence of a logical and normal will to survive, but the use of the clothing ( not all for insulating their bodies) and the unzipped jackets etc suggests that the cold was not the only major threat or concern. 

The ravine

The main consideration at the ravine are the injuries of the rav 4 and in particular Thibo, Lyuda and Semyon.  Kolevatov who was less seriously injured (apart from his deformed neck?) appears to have been the last one alive, judging by his embrace of Kolevatov.  He probably arranged the injured students lying them beside each other before he himself died of hypothermia.  It strange that if humans had been involved they would leave Kolevatov to live after killing the others?  There violent deaths on the face of it don't seem to be logical. They appear more like random violent attacks which is more consistent with some wild creature that is not looking to particularly kill everyone.  The attacks are more akin to a large ape affirming its dominance and territory.

The injuries themselves are the most interesting.

Thibo's skull injury just happens to be the exact same shape of the pad of the ball of thumb - a very large thumb on a hand that is 30 cm long.  The same size as a large Gorilla or ape hand.  The force required to crush a skull between the hands is over 450kg.  Very very humans are capable of that.  A crush injury using the hands would also explain the lack of any soft tissue damage.  The impact of the head from a fall or a blunt instrument would likely result in some soft tissue damage, but Thibo was wearing two hats.  Thibo had no other major injuries on his body that you might also expect from a fall.   Thibo's injury combined with both Lyuda and Semyon's are very suspicious indeed.  Lyuda flail just, with clean straight fracture lines suggest an impact of tremendous force.  Probably greater tha 800kg and most likely even in excess of that.  But also the damage to facial tissues suggest that Kyuda was dragged violently around on the ground.  The same is true for Senyon but to a slightly lesser extent.  It is extremely unlikely that Thibo, Lyuda and Semyon all fell at the same time sustaining their injuries with no other injuries to handls, wrists, ankles or limbs as these are common injuries when people fall and attempt to break their fall with hands and legs as they hit the ground.  What are the odds of them all falling together and none of them sustaining any injuries to limbs?  Also, if humans had been involved how did they deliver such massive blows which are clearly beyond human capability.  And if therer were humans there why would they use primitive methods to kill them.  No stab wounds, no gun shots etc?

An ape or ape like creature on the hand has a clear pattern to their aggression.  When they attack they knock their foes to the ground, drag them around violently and beat them with powerful blows to the body.  This is exactly what we see with these injuries.  The only thing that is missing however are ape type bite marks.  Apes do bite, but not always.

Rustems head injury and scratches to the forehead are also consistent with this type of attack, but again not as severe.  Maybe he was able to fend off the attack to some extent.

I he thus kind of summarises my thoughts on this theory so far.

Regards

Star man


Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 11, 2019, 06:24:00 AM
There is ample argument against the idea they cut the tent in a panic to begin with. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 12, 2019, 09:13:12 AM
There is ample argument against the idea they cut the tent in a panic to begin with.

I think there are other arguments but again the question is around context and whether those other arguments can provide the single common denominator that links all the other events together in a logical and convincing way?  The potential presence of a large ape or ape like creature I believe does this.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 12, 2019, 10:18:20 AM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 12, 2019, 11:46:43 AM
Maybe this?    whacky1

https://youtu.be/G03bNA-gpXE
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 12, 2019, 12:01:45 PM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously.

We dont know if the HIGGS BOSON exists. All we have is TRACE EVIDENCE of a PARTICLE that comes into existence and leaves existence all within a fraction of a second. And there have been many SIGHTINGS of YETI like creatures over Time.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 12, 2019, 12:02:05 PM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously.

I agree that proving it was a Yeti would be a difficult challenge indeed.  At the moment I am concentrating on the idea of large ape or ape like creature.  Saying that I will keep looking to see if there could be any objective evidence.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 12, 2019, 12:09:57 PM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously.

We dont know if the HIGGS BOSON exists. All we have is TRACE EVIDENCE of a PARTICLE that comes into existence and leaves existence all within a fraction of a second. And there have been many SIGHTINGS of YETI like creatures over Time.

Very true.  And science is full of examples where people have fluffed it up.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 12, 2019, 12:30:01 PM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously.

We dont know if the HIGGS BOSON exists. All we have is TRACE EVIDENCE of a PARTICLE that comes into existence and leaves existence all within a fraction of a second. And there have been many SIGHTINGS of YETI like creatures over Time.

No...  That's comparing apples to oranges and the orange is simply a 'wag' on what they 'think' is happening. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 12, 2019, 11:44:28 PM
The Evening Otorten - an important clue . Why make reference to a Yeti?  It’s actually very suspicious given the events that followed?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 13, 2019, 04:23:26 AM
How could Thibo have sustained his skull fracture with no other significant injuries and no damage to the soft tissue around the temporal region?

Fall- unlikely
Blunt instrument-unlikely
Explosion- unlikely

Skull crushed Either between two large powerful hands or between one large powerful hand and the ground-  this is what the injuries more closely resembles.

Regards
Star man

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 13, 2019, 04:27:12 AM
Another question about Thibo - why was he wearing two watches? 

Was the time important to him for some reason?

Did he have two watches to ensure they were both synchronised?  So that he did not get the time wrong for some important event?

Did he just like watches?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 13, 2019, 02:48:36 PM
I think in order to blame the incident on Yeti, you first have to prove Yeti exists.   

Otherwise it doesn't hold any more water then the tooth fairy theory.   If someone were to drag a dead Yeti out of the Brake, I would consider the possibility much more seriously.

We dont know if the HIGGS BOSON exists. All we have is TRACE EVIDENCE of a PARTICLE that comes into existence and leaves existence all within a fraction of a second. And there have been many SIGHTINGS of YETI like creatures over Time.

No...  That's comparing apples to oranges and the orange is simply a 'wag' on what they 'think' is happening.

Not really. After all everything is made up of MATTER. The question then becomes; What is Matter  ?  What makes an Apple different from an Orange ? Therefore when Scientists claim to see Evidence for the existence of an Higgs Boson they can be no more certain than when people see Evidence for the existence of a Yeti like Creature, by a SIGHTING.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 13, 2019, 02:51:51 PM
The Evening Otorten - an important clue . Why make reference to a Yeti?  It’s actually very suspicious given the events that followed?

Regards
Star man

And now with the revelation that a WITNESS saw the Newspaper fixed in a PROMINENT position in the Tent and appearing to have been HASTILY written, it becomes even more suspicious.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 13, 2019, 05:37:36 PM
That's what's wrong with scientists.....  They make crap up to explain what they don't understand.   tongue2
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 13, 2019, 11:45:10 PM
The Evening Otorten is also described in Maslennikov’s note book with descriptions of the entries.  Given that their injuries are consistent with some kind of large ape like creature can it just be a coincidence?  Is it possible that some of the entries were written in humour and the snow man written in haste to leave a record if they didn’t make it?  Maybe.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 14, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
The Evening Otorten is also described in Maslennikov’s note book with descriptions of the entries.  Given that their injuries are consistent with some kind of large ape like creature can it just be a coincidence?  Is it possible that some of the entries were written in humour and the snow man written in haste to leave a record if they didn’t make it?  Maybe.

Regards
Star man

Well unless we have the original paperwork we can not know. Or unless we have other Evidence, maybe another Witness or a Photo of the original paperwork.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 14, 2019, 11:39:53 AM
That's what's wrong with scientists.....  They make crap up to explain what they don't understand.   tongue2

Hardly applies to all Scientists. Some Scientists certainly have Galactic EGO's, which can affect their work. But most Scientists are merely doing their jobs best they can under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 14, 2019, 04:00:33 PM
The Evening Otorten is also described in Maslennikov’s note book with descriptions of the entries.  Given that their injuries are consistent with some kind of large ape like creature can it just be a coincidence?  Is it possible that some of the entries were written in humour and the snow man written in haste to leave a record if they didn’t make it?  Maybe.

Regards
Star man

Well unless we have the original paperwork we can not know. Or unless we have other Evidence, maybe another Witness or a Photo of the original paperwork.

I very much doubt we will ever see the original document.  Although saying that.  The Evening Otorten is an important piece of evidence irrespective of whether it was actually in the tent or later planted.  Why - because if it was in the tent then The Yeti entry is odd and probably important considering the events that followed AND if it was planted then someone who may believe that the evidence points in a particular direction is trying to plant a suggestion to try and alter that direction.  My personal view is that the document was in the tent with those comments written on it.

Another option is that the investigators after reviewing all the evidence may have thought it did point towards an attack by a large Yeti type animal, but rather than risk their reputations and become. a laughing stock, concluded their investigation with compelling unknown force and planted the Otorten in an attempt to relay their true thoughts about what happened.  It's probably unlikely though.

Regards

Star man

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 15, 2019, 01:19:35 PM
The Evening Otorten is also described in Maslennikov’s note book with descriptions of the entries.  Given that their injuries are consistent with some kind of large ape like creature can it just be a coincidence?  Is it possible that some of the entries were written in humour and the snow man written in haste to leave a record if they didn’t make it?  Maybe.

Regards
Star man

Well unless we have the original paperwork we can not know. Or unless we have other Evidence, maybe another Witness or a Photo of the original paperwork.

I very much doubt we will ever see the original document.  Although saying that.  The Evening Otorten is an important piece of evidence irrespective of whether it was actually in the tent or later planted.  Why - because if it was in the tent then The Yeti entry is odd and probably important considering the events that followed AND if it was planted then someone who may believe that the evidence points in a particular direction is trying to plant a suggestion to try and alter that direction.  My personal view is that the document was in the tent with those comments written on it.

Another option is that the investigators after reviewing all the evidence may have thought it did point towards an attack by a large Yeti type animal, but rather than risk their reputations and become. a laughing stock, concluded their investigation with compelling unknown force and planted the Otorten in an attempt to relay their true thoughts about what happened.  It's probably unlikely though.

Regards

Star man

Regards

Star man

It may be that eventually more Evidence comes to light regarding the Evening Otorten Paperwork. Meanwhile we can continue Investigating possibilities regarding the YETI Theory.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 15, 2019, 03:55:53 PM
The Evening Otorten is also described in Maslennikov’s note book with descriptions of the entries.  Given that their injuries are consistent with some kind of large ape like creature can it just be a coincidence?  Is it possible that some of the entries were written in humour and the snow man written in haste to leave a record if they didn’t make it?  Maybe.

Regards
Star man

Well unless we have the original paperwork we can not know. Or unless we have other Evidence, maybe another Witness or a Photo of the original paperwork.

I very much doubt we will ever see the original document.  Although saying that.  The Evening Otorten is an important piece of evidence irrespective of whether it was actually in the tent or later planted.  Why - because if it was in the tent then The Yeti entry is odd and probably important considering the events that followed AND if it was planted then someone who may believe that the evidence points in a particular direction is trying to plant a suggestion to try and alter that direction.  My personal view is that the document was in the tent with those comments written on it.

Another option is that the investigators after reviewing all the evidence may have thought it did point towards an attack by a large Yeti type animal, but rather than risk their reputations and become. a laughing stock, concluded their investigation with compelling unknown force and planted the Otorten in an attempt to relay their true thoughts about what happened.  It's probably unlikely though.

Regards

Star man

Regards

Star man

It may be that eventually more Evidence comes to light regarding the Evening Otorten Paperwork. Meanwhile we can continue Investigating possibilities regarding the YETI Theory.

Yeah we need to continue with the research.  It will take time though.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 15, 2019, 10:53:19 PM
Thought that this was interesting in the context of this thread.  It might have absolutely no bearing, but it might be an eye brow raiser for those who think they have their feet firmly planted on the ground.

In the early 20th century Russian scientist were experimenting with trying to hybridise apes and humans.  Breeding apes and humans to create a hybrid.  The work was authorised and funded by the government.  As far as we know it never worked.  But is there something we don't know?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 16, 2019, 04:53:06 AM
Just another observation on Thibo’s skull fracture:

If you orient the ball of the thumb to line up with Thibo’s depressed fracture then the Index finger lines up with the elongated fracture that runs around to the frontal bone and the base of the hand corresponds to the fracture that runs underneath through the saddle.  Try it. 

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 08:39:45 AM
Well....... could be a rock/boulder.    thanky1      Even Big rocks have sharper edges and rounded points etc.


Then again, this is the butt plate of a Mosin Nagant rifle.  The Mosin Nagant was developed in the late 1800s and was about the only rifle around through to the 1970s.  There isn't a big civilian market for firearms, because unlike the US it requires special circumstances to permit one.  The semi auto SKS was developed in the 1950s, but civilians wouldnt have them. In 1959 there would have really only been TWO rifle types walking around.  The Mosin Nagant, and if military..... the SKS. 

Here is the Butt Plate of a Mosin Nagant.  I own plenty of both and can tell you the radius resemblance is striking... pun intended. 

(http://www.ltwerner.com/wwii/images/mosin-butt.gif)



Here is the Butt Plate of an SKS.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7300/10615476053_9408d6fdef_b.jpg)




Then of course you have the grip butt of a Nagant pistol....  Like the rifle, it was about the only thing around for a crazy long time. 

(https://www.ai4fr.com/main/img_1209917334_16935_1393278344.jpg)

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 16, 2019, 08:42:39 AM
This a quote from the main site in relation to Thibo’s skull injury:

Vozrozhdenny, who undertook the autopsy, excluded accidental fall on the rock as a possible cause for such a massive and unusual fracture

Thibo’ fracture is decribed as “massive and unusual “. Interesting.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 16, 2019, 08:53:32 AM
Well....... could be a rock/boulder.    thanky1      Even Big rocks have sharper edges and rounded points etc.


Then again, this is the butt plate of a Mosin Nagant rifle.  The Mosin Nagant was developed in the late 1800s and was about the only rifle around through to the 1970s.  There isn't a big civilian market for firearms, because unlike the US it requires special circumstances to permit one.  The semi auto SKS was developed in the 1950s, but civilians wouldnt have them. In 1959 there would have really only been TWO rifle types walking around.  The Mosin Nagant, and if military..... the SKS. 

Here is the Butt Plate of a Mosin Nagant.  I own plenty of both and can tell you the radius resemblance is striking... pun intended. 

(http://www.ltwerner.com/wwii/images/mosin-butt.gif)



Here is the Butt Plate of an SKS.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7300/10615476053_9408d6fdef_b.jpg)




Then of course you have the grip butt of a Nagant pistol....  Like the rifle, it was about the only thing around for a crazy long time. 

(https://www.ai4fr.com/main/img_1209917334_16935_1393278344.jpg)

I thought about the rifle butt as a possible explanation.  It’s not the same shape though.  If it hit his head at an angle the bottom of the injury should be flatter and one part of the injury would be much deeper than the other. 

Out of interest measure the width of the butt and then divide 9cm by the width to see what result you get and let me know.  That might be interesting.

One other thing- the fracture that runs from the depression is near the top.  If a gun butt was used then the maximum force applied would be at the bottom of Thibo’s injury and the shape should be flatter.

Good idea though.  Let us know the length/width ratio.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 08:55:13 AM
Case closed?

How much are you willing to rely on one persons opinion that quite possibly had little to no experience with this type of injury.   nea1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 09:01:02 AM
Quote
I thought about the rifle butt as a possible explanation.  It’s not the same shape though.  If it hit his head at an angle the bottom of the injury should be flatter and one part of the injury would be much deeper than the other. 

Out of interest measure the width of the butt and then divide 9cm by the width to see what result you get and let me know.  That might be interesting.

One other thing- the fracture that runs from the depression is near the top.  If a gun butt was used then the maximum force applied would be at the bottom of Thibo’s injury and the shape should be flatter.

Good idea though.  Let us know the length/width ratio.

Regards

Star man


Quote
measure the width of the butt and then divide 9cm by the width

Do what?  the butts taper to a radius.


Which gun?  I have several of all three.   wink1

Also, I would imagine alot would depend on the angle in which the strike happened.  Also, I would imagine there to be some 'give' to the skill when hit, and then some spring back from swelling etc.  I doubt the injury would resemble the object perfectly, especially if he had on a hat and or hood.   Lots of variables here.....
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 09:34:04 AM
Not sure abut the exact measurement scale, but knowing the length of these buttplates... pretty close Im sure. 


(https://i.ibb.co/d4wRSdc/ccfxgjydxj.png) (https://ibb.co/0yRxkgX)


Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 09:39:10 AM
Actually a bit big....  lemme measure and try again
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 09:47:48 AM
Ok... this should be closer to scale.  I put a line across the Plate showing where I measured from.... at that location its 38mm across.  Thats about half the main impact area.  Once centered you can see the radius has a striking resemblance to the injury. 

This is the SKS.  Civilians wouldn't have these in 1959. 


(https://i.ibb.co/XVz2dMh/ccfxgjydxj.png) (https://ibb.co/rvZ7LNC)



(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-wpb0dq6yc5/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12315/19396/jY7w3xe6SI2WTvpQIjn5_sks__04894.1543432606.jpg?c=2)
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 10:14:30 AM
Ah.... the Marine Corps days.    wink1

"well over 550 pounds of force" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg0CsUlisBE

 
Shatter a cheekbone.   whacky1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhz3P86d-Ko&list=PLFCC3A771CF7E0073&index=28
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 10:15:21 AM
Impact = 450 pounds.   shock1

"break ribs and damage internal organs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB-afURlP9w&list=PLFCC3A771CF7E0073&index=6
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 01:43:49 PM
Thought that this was interesting in the context of this thread.  It might have absolutely no bearing, but it might be an eye brow raiser for those who think they have their feet firmly planted on the ground.

In the early 20th century Russian scientist were experimenting with trying to hybridise apes and humans.  Breeding apes and humans to create a hybrid.  The work was authorised and funded by the government.  As far as we know it never worked.  But is there something we don't know?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov

Regards

Star man

Interesting. The name IVANOV obviously a coincidence. I think there are many cases of such experimentation. The NAZIS did such work as well. No Evidence that any of it succeded though.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 01:52:36 PM
Just another observation on Thibo’s skull fracture:

If you orient the ball of the thumb to line up with Thibo’s depressed fracture then the Index finger lines up with the elongated fracture that runs around to the frontal bone and the base of the hand corresponds to the fracture that runs underneath through the saddle.  Try it. 

Regards

Star man

Interesting. Obviously it wouldnt have been a Human Hand because a Human Hand would not have been powerful enough.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 01:55:35 PM
This a quote from the main site in relation to Thibo’s skull injury:

Vozrozhdenny, who undertook the autopsy, excluded accidental fall on the rock as a possible cause for such a massive and unusual fracture

Thibo’ fracture is decribed as “massive and unusual “. Interesting.

Regards

Star man

Very interesting, yet there are still those who suggest a fall was responsible. I have never believed that a fall caused those injuries.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 02:04:00 PM
Well....... could be a rock/boulder.    thanky1      Even Big rocks have sharper edges and rounded points etc.


Then again, this is the butt plate of a Mosin Nagant rifle.  The Mosin Nagant was developed in the late 1800s and was about the only rifle around through to the 1970s.  There isn't a big civilian market for firearms, because unlike the US it requires special circumstances to permit one.  The semi auto SKS was developed in the 1950s, but civilians wouldnt have them. In 1959 there would have really only been TWO rifle types walking around.  The Mosin Nagant, and if military..... the SKS. 

Here is the Butt Plate of a Mosin Nagant.  I own plenty of both and can tell you the radius resemblance is striking... pun intended. 

(http://www.ltwerner.com/wwii/images/mosin-butt.gif)



Here is the Butt Plate of an SKS.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7300/10615476053_9408d6fdef_b.jpg)




Then of course you have the grip butt of a Nagant pistol....  Like the rifle, it was about the only thing around for a crazy long time. 

(https://www.ai4fr.com/main/img_1209917334_16935_1393278344.jpg)

But the Evidence suggests that the injuries were not caused by a fall on rocks or of a rock or similar hard object hitting the Skull.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 02:05:16 PM
Case closed?

How much are you willing to rely on one persons opinion that quite possibly had little to no experience with this type of injury.   nea1

One persons opinion  !  ?  Evidence says otherwise.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 02:09:35 PM
Ok... this should be closer to scale.  I put a line across the Plate showing where I measured from.... at that location its 38mm across.  Thats about half the main impact area.  Once centered you can see the radius has a striking resemblance to the injury. 

This is the SKS.  Civilians wouldn't have these in 1959. 


(https://i.ibb.co/XVz2dMh/ccfxgjydxj.png) (https://ibb.co/rvZ7LNC)

Being hit by one of those things would be a bit like being hit by a Rock. And therefore we would expect to see more Evidence of that on the Skull. But there was no such Evidence of that type of hit.



(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-wpb0dq6yc5/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12315/19396/jY7w3xe6SI2WTvpQIjn5_sks__04894.1543432606.jpg?c=2)
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 16, 2019, 02:12:55 PM
Impact = 450 pounds.   shock1

"break ribs and damage internal organs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB-afURlP9w&list=PLFCC3A771CF7E0073&index=6

The injuries to Dubinina do not appear to have been the result of someone kicking her.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 03:08:35 PM
Quote
But the Evidence suggests that the injuries were not caused by a fall on rocks or of a rock or similar hard object hitting the Skull.

Says who?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 16, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Ok.  This is getting interesting.  Given Thibo's two hats it is impossible that the impact injury may be slightly different from whatever made it.  If it was an impact that it.

However, it seems obvious when you put the two Diagrams together above that Thibo's injury is clearly a different shape.  It's much wider, it has a rounded bottom and rounded top which is slightly more pointed, just like the top of the ball of the thumb where it joined the thumb itself.  If the gun butt hit Thibo's head at an angle then the bottom of the fracture would only see the flat part of the butt.  I can't see how it would be so rounded. 

A more likely shape would be the handle of a pistol, but the size of the injury would mean the handle would be very large 9cm x 7cm.  I don't know if there were any pistol handles that matched those proportions?  One other thing if it was a pistol handle then it would need to deliver about 450kg of force.

Also, could it just be a coincidence that  the injury identically resembles the proportions of the ball of a thumb?

I know it's weird but there it is.

Lyuda chest injuries were created by massive blows.  A single blow that cleanly fractured all the ribs on one side in a straight line.  Over 800kg of force, at least.  Individual ribs could be broken with much less force, but then there wouldn't be a straight fracture line running through all the ribs.  The ribs would be broken randomly.

Same for Semyon's ribs - the same level of force and one massive blow.  If they fell then given differences in weight you would probably expect a slightly different pattern. 

Let's consider a fall just for interest:

Thibo falls and hits his head "only" on a rock resulting in a massive injury that exactly resembles the proportions of the ball,of the thumb.

Lyuda also falls and lands on her chest "only" on a rock that causes massive damage fracturing both sides.  Only sustains minor injuries elsewhere.

Semyon also falls on his chest "only" on a rock that causes massive damage fracturing one side of his chest.  Only sustains minor injuries elsewhere.

Now let's look at a human cause:

Someone hits Thibo with a rock to his head that just happens to create a fracture with the exact proportions of a ball of the thumb.

Then they pick up 150kg to 300 kg rock and drop it on Lyuda and Semyon, but they leave Kolevatov alive.

Regards

Star man



Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 16, 2019, 06:59:45 PM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: jarrfan on August 16, 2019, 08:32:17 PM
I don't find the Yeti theory plausible. Even if they were attacked by a Yeti what accounts for the missing eyeballs of the three in the  ravine? Was this caused by animals or fish? A blow to the chest enough to cause broken ribs would not cause someone's eyes to leave their eye sockets. So is it considered that the eyes were not affected by the damaging blows and by animals?

If there were a force, such as a ball lightening, electric force that broke their ribs, their eye sockets would have been damaged all around the eye area i.e., burns, acid, etc.

If the conclusion is that the eyes were lost during the months long period they lay in the river is the plausible theory.

If a Yeti or even a bear attack, there should be amounts of flesh ripped and it would  be visible on most bodies. The three exposed and found first don't speak to an attack by an animal.


The possibility of elk or reindeer stampede is still possible and would incapacitate the hikers and make them leave the tent in order to assess their wounds and make plans to try and survive.

I do have a question, why in March was a Mansi member at the site? Especially knowing there would be bodies there and not all of the hikers had been found? Was he just passing by, or was he investigating on his own? I cannot think of any reason that he should  have been there knowing it was a devastating event. I wonder about this. If the Mansi are telling hikers not to go there, what was he doing there?

The foot prints don't give too much detail and the site was not secured.

If the Dyatlov Pass investigation team were to monitor the site during the winter with cameras like the hunters use might give up the details. Some type of sonic monitoring for electrical activity and sound wave monitoring should give info about the site being a place of supernatural events. Geiger counter monitoring for a few months.

I have to go back to the 1993 incident where the hikers died in August and during the day, the first one became ill, bled from his nose and died. Then another hiker began banging her head on rocks. Even though it did not happen in the same spot, it was definitely some kind of supernatural event either electric, sound, breathing poison gases, etc., that caused that melee. it was described quite well by the person who survived. So this tells me no Yeti, no bear, no elk, no military, no poison eaten, perehaps poison gases exposure.

Keep up the fight. Jarrfan


Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 02:15:36 AM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1

So the point of talking about the injuries in terms of them not being made by a yeti is show/demonstrate the unlikely conditions that would be required for the injuries to have been caused by either an accident or human intervention.

I don't know about the likelihood of the injuries tapering wrt impacts on a skull.  I suppose it must be possible for some tapering, but the outline of the injury as shown in the diagram is very distinct.

Naturally I wouldn't expect anyone to be totally convinced by the information presented that it was a Yeti instead of an accident or human attack.

The point that should be more clear is that there is something very odd about these injuries when considering them all together.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 02:25:00 AM
I don't find the Yeti theory plausible. Even if they were attacked by a Yeti what accounts for the missing eyeballs of the three in the  ravine? Was this caused by animals or fish? A blow to the chest enough to cause broken ribs would not cause someone's eyes to leave their eye sockets. So is it considered that the eyes were not affected by the damaging blows and by animals?

If there were a force, such as a ball lightening, electric force that broke their ribs, their eye sockets would have been damaged all around the eye area i.e., burns, acid, etc.

If the conclusion is that the eyes were lost during the months long period they lay in the river is the plausible theory.

If a Yeti or even a bear attack, there should be amounts of flesh ripped and it would  be visible on most bodies. The three exposed and found first don't speak to an attack by an animal.


The possibility of elk or reindeer stampede is still possible and would incapacitate the hikers and make them leave the tent in order to assess their wounds and make plans to try and survive.

I do have a question, why in March was a Mansi member at the site? Especially knowing there would be bodies there and not all of the hikers had been found? Was he just passing by, or was he investigating on his own? I cannot think of any reason that he should  have been there knowing it was a devastating event. I wonder about this. If the Mansi are telling hikers not to go there, what was he doing there?

The foot prints don't give too much detail and the site was not secured.

If the Dyatlov Pass investigation team were to monitor the site during the winter with cameras like the hunters use might give up the details. Some type of sonic monitoring for electrical activity and sound wave monitoring should give info about the site being a place of supernatural events. Geiger counter monitoring for a few months.

I have to go back to the 1993 incident where the hikers died in August and during the day, the first one became ill, bled from his nose and died. Then another hiker began banging her head on rocks. Even though it did not happen in the same spot, it was definitely some kind of supernatural event either electric, sound, breathing poison gases, etc., that caused that melee. it was described quite well by the person who survived. So this tells me no Yeti, no bear, no elk, no military, no poison eaten, perehaps poison gases exposure.

Keep up the fight. Jarrfan

You make an interesting point about the eyes and facial injuries.  Let's add some further info to these:

When apes attack they often attack the body and the face.  Mutilating the face is actually quite common in normal ape attacks.  Who knows what a Yeti would do?

But ask yourself this - the two people who have the worst facial injuries and missing eyes are also the two who have the worst chest injuries, consistent with them having being mauled to the worst extent.  It is actually a shame that they were Ian stream bed because if they were not then it would me more clear that there is something odd about the facial injuries.  Lyuda's face is the worst - missing tissue around lips, skull, smashed nose cartilage, missing eyes and tongue.  En there is Semyon missing eyes, tissue missing around eye brows large laceration around the back of the head.  In known ape attacks it is quite common for the ape to drag the victim around.

So, I don't think that the eyes would pop out due to the blows.  The attack on the face would be specific.

One other thing if an ape like creature was attacking one of the group, then I doubt the others would just stand by and watch, they attack it too, punching kicking etc.  they did have a knife which was never found.  An attack with a knife would interrupt the ape attack, and make it less severe.  Also it might eventually drive it away.  So if Koleveatov had the knife, he might have stabbed it several times and eventually drove it away.  The knife may have been le in the beast.  Hence it was never found.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 17, 2019, 05:17:36 AM
Welp...  All you have to do is produce a Yeti.  A big animal with a thumb like that would consume a late of food, and it has to reproduce.  Should be easy.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: cennetkusu on August 17, 2019, 09:03:04 AM
Yeti can exist in the world. This is possible. But as far as I know, he has never had any attacks on people. And there's no reason to attack. Yeti could not have attacked young people, even if they were close to them. I mean, I think he was somewhere close by. And it seemed as if he had predicted what was going to happen in the photo. So if Yeti has no extraordinary power, Yeti cannot be responsible for these deaths
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: jarrfan on August 17, 2019, 09:28:09 AM
This is the sad story of Charlotte Nash whose face was destroyed, eyes ripped out, so even though this was a chimp and not an ape, they are in the same line. He bit off both of her  hands.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/victim-chimp-attack-shows-destroyed-face-oprah/story?id=9053544

I cannot say if this proves or disproves a Yeti was involved.

Regards. Jarrfan
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 17, 2019, 10:48:00 AM
The only one that was bitten was Yuri, and he did it to himself.   wink1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 17, 2019, 12:08:19 PM
Quote
But the Evidence suggests that the injuries were not caused by a fall on rocks or of a rock or similar hard object hitting the Skull.

Says who?

Well there is stuff in The Dyatlov Pass Website. We have the Autopsy stuff.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 17, 2019, 12:15:53 PM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1

So the point of talking about the injuries in terms of them not being made by a yeti is show/demonstrate the unlikely conditions that would be required for the injuries to have been caused by either an accident or human intervention.

I don't know about the likelihood of the injuries tapering wrt impacts on a skull.  I suppose it must be possible for some tapering, but the outline of the injury as shown in the diagram is very distinct.

Naturally I wouldn't expect anyone to be totally convinced by the information presented that it was a Yeti instead of an accident or human attack.

The point that should be more clear is that there is something very odd about these injuries when considering them all together.

Regards

Star man

Well said and well said about your analysis re the Head injury. You have basically laid a fairly clear path towards it not being the result of another Human or even Rock Fall or Hit by a Rock. Along with the Autopsy Findings etc we may be looking at some kind of completely Unknown Quantity. So that brings the YETI THEORY nicely into the Equation, or Equations.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 17, 2019, 12:22:59 PM
Welp...  All you have to do is produce a Yeti.  A big animal with a thumb like that would consume a late of food, and it has to reproduce.  Should be easy.

Well thats assuming that the hypothetical YETI is an animal that eats and breeds like Apes or Humans.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 12:24:50 PM
Welp...  All you have to do is produce a Yeti.  A big animal with a thumb like that would consume a late of food, and it has to reproduce.  Should be easy.

Yeaaaaaeeehh!!!!!  Will have to work on that one but you're right.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
This is the sad story of Charlotte Nash whose face was destroyed, eyes ripped out, so even though this was a chimp and not an ape, they are in the same line. He bit off both of her  hands.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/victim-chimp-attack-shows-destroyed-face-oprah/story?id=9053544

I cannot say if this proves or disproves a Yeti was involved.

Regards. Jarrfan

Yes this was a very severe attack.  I think the chimp was not stopped for some time so the injuries are even more severe.  But you can see the type and pattern of an ape attack. 

There are not many example of ape human attacks documented.  Apes are normally peaceful creatures, especially gorillas.  But interesting none the less.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 12:32:01 PM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1

So the point of talking about the injuries in terms of them not being made by a yeti is show/demonstrate the unlikely conditions that would be required for the injuries to have been caused by either an accident or human intervention.

I don't know about the likelihood of the injuries tapering wrt impacts on a skull.  I suppose it must be possible for some tapering, but the outline of the injury as shown in the diagram is very distinct.

Naturally I wouldn't expect anyone to be totally convinced by the information presented that it was a Yeti instead of an accident or human attack.

The point that should be more clear is that there is something very odd about these injuries when considering them all together.

Regards

Star man

Well said and well said about your analysis re the Head injury. You have basically laid a fairly clear path towards it not being the result of another Human or even Rock Fall or Hit by a Rock. Along with the Autopsy Findings etc we may be looking at some kind of completely Unknown Quantity. So that brings the YETI THEORY nicely into the Equation, or Equations.

Yeah I think the pattern of events points to some kind of large ape involvement.  But what sort of ape and why would it be there on Kholat Syakhl in the middle of winter.  A Yeti in its natural habitat or something else?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 17, 2019, 12:35:06 PM
The only one that was bitten was Yuri, and he did it to himself.   wink1

Why aren't there any bite marks.  Good question

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 17, 2019, 03:53:44 PM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1

So the point of talking about the injuries in terms of them not being made by a yeti is show/demonstrate the unlikely conditions that would be required for the injuries to have been caused by either an accident or human intervention.

I don't know about the likelihood of the injuries tapering wrt impacts on a skull.  I suppose it must be possible for some tapering, but the outline of the injury as shown in the diagram is very distinct.

Naturally I wouldn't expect anyone to be totally convinced by the information presented that it was a Yeti instead of an accident or human attack.

The point that should be more clear is that there is something very odd about these injuries when considering them all together.

Regards

Star man

Well said and well said about your analysis re the Head injury. You have basically laid a fairly clear path towards it not being the result of another Human or even Rock Fall or Hit by a Rock. Along with the Autopsy Findings etc we may be looking at some kind of completely Unknown Quantity. So that brings the YETI THEORY nicely into the Equation, or Equations.

Yeti thumb shaped injury brings Bigfoot to the forefront of all theories as THE undisputable explanation of the DP incident.     

What a headline, and what a claim.   bang1

Definitive claims based on bias and total disregard for common sense, reality, and facts is running a muck something fierce.   
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: cennetkusu on August 18, 2019, 02:05:19 AM
Just another observation on Thibo’s skull fracture:

If you orient the ball of the thumb to line up with Thibo’s depressed fracture then the Index finger lines up with the elongated fracture that runs around to the frontal bone and the base of the hand corresponds to the fracture that runs underneath through the saddle.  Try it. 

Regards

Star man

Interesting. Obviously it wouldnt have been a Human Hand because a Human Hand would not have been powerful enough.
Why not? There are many powerful martial artists in the world. It is strong enough to break the skull with a stroke. But you can make this kick with one hand which is powerful and skillful. That's what happened to Tibo. A man of extraordinary power did not want to deal with Tibo much, took pity on him and killed him with a single shot. The others were very angry and broke his eyes and ribs in anger.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 18, 2019, 06:23:34 AM
Because it 'had' to be from the THUMB of a Yeti.    He one handedly popped his head like a grape.    whacky1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 18, 2019, 10:56:06 PM
It might be worth summarising the evidence in favour of a large ape type creature again at this point:

1. Something scary enough to drive them away from the tent without adequate clothing or equipment
2. A careful decent of the slope which would be consistent with calmly walking away from a dangerous animal
3. Dropping the flash light and not stopping to retrieve it
4. The group heads for a tall cedar and climb the tree clearing branches to look back up the slope.
5. Yuri D receives scratches bruises climbing the tree his fingers and toes are severely frost bitten.  It does  not appear that he climbed the tree to collect firewood.
6. Fragments of skin found in the tree bark
7. Yuri D and Yuris K die of hypothermia.  The fire is lit too late to save their lives.

The injuries are by far the more interesting though

Rustems head injury is inconsistent with falling and hitting your head.  His fractured skull is in the temporal region with diffuse feeding into the temporal muscle.  Falling is more likely to result in injuries to the front and back of the skull.  Rustem also had diffuse bleeding in the other temporal muscle which makes it appear that he received a blow to the head while probably lying on the ground.

Many of the group had injuries to their hands and legs consistent with punching and kicking.  It is unlikely they fighting each other but it does appear that they were attacking something.  Maybe fighting off the creature as it attacked their friends.

Thibo's head injury is identical to the shape of a thumb, but this thumb scaled up would be part of a hand that is about 30cm long and capable of delivering over 450kg of force.   The same length as the bruise on Zina's side.  Thibo has no other significant injuries.

Lyuda and Semyon have chest injuries that would require massive blows beyond that which any human could deliver.  They also have facial injuries similar to that found in ape attacks.

Kolevatov is left alive.

Dyatlov, zina die of hypothermia.  Rustem also eventually dies of hypothermia but complicated by his head injury.

One other piece of evidence which I think may also be important given the above - The Eveneing Otorten which has an entry about a Yeti.  Had one of the group seen something before the attack?

What's missing:

1.  Obviously an ape creature or Yeti
2. Foot prints
3.  Bite marks on the victims
4. The knife of the rav 4

Post edit:  oh yes the radiation- what is that all about?

Regards

Star man






Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 18, 2019, 11:34:36 PM
Just another observation on Thibo’s skull fracture:

If you orient the ball of the thumb to line up with Thibo’s depressed fracture then the Index finger lines up with the elongated fracture that runs around to the frontal bone and the base of the hand corresponds to the fracture that runs underneath through the saddle.  Try it. 

Regards

Star man

Interesting. Obviously it wouldnt have been a Human Hand because a Human Hand would not have been powerful enough.
Why not? There are many powerful martial artists in the world. It is strong enough to break the skull with a stroke. But you can make this kick with one hand which is powerful and skillful. That's what happened to Tibo. A man of extraordinary power did not want to deal with Tibo much, took pity on him and killed him with a single shot. The others were very angry and broke his eyes and ribs in anger.

Not a bad thought.  I have already considered this.  My conclusion is that the only martial artist capable of inflicting all of the injuries is the type that has very bad dubbing and can jump 50 foot up into the sky. 

But who knows when comparing the probability of a 50 foot jumping ninja with a Yeti.

Still- there was nothing in the Evening Otorten about 50 foot jumping super ninjas.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 19, 2019, 06:06:56 AM
Quote
1. Something scary enough to drive them away from the tent without adequate clothing or equipment
2. A careful decent of the slope which would be consistent with calmly walking away from a dangerous animal
3. Dropping the flash light and not stopping to retrieve it
4. The group heads for a tall cedar and climb the tree clearing branches to look back up the slope.
5. Yuri D receives scratches bruises climbing the tree his fingers and toes are severely frost bitten.  It does  not appear that he climbed the tree to collect firewood.
6. Fragments of skin found in the tree bark
7. Yuri D and Yuris K die of hypothermia.  The fire is lit too late to save their lives.


Hmmmm....   I like your enthusiasm and theories Star-Man,  but I think you may be reaching really far now.  Literally everything you list is most definitely not 'evidence' contributed to Yeti or a "large primate" dropped on the pass for some super secret experiment. 

Evidence in favor of what you propose would look more like.....

Yeti hairs
Yeti DNA
Yeti footprints
Yeti den
Yeti fingerprints
Yeti sleeping in their tent. <<. Roflmao

I think you get the idea.  Everything you list and the injuries you allocate can be contributed to.....  Anything.  It can all be an indication of goblins, trolls, mothman, and unicorn farts if you really wanna go down that road. 

Just sayin

Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 19, 2019, 06:16:27 AM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.   
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 19, 2019, 08:47:26 AM
Of course.  Many of the individual pieces of evidence I have presented can be put down to a number of possible explanations.  What I have tried to do is present a picture that can be consistently pieced together and supported with some key claims that is believable or at least should raise the suspicion that some kind of large ape like creature could have been involved.

There is of course no concrete evidence yet.

I agree that what is required to complete this scenario would be exactly the sort of things you have listed LC.  The evidence currently available is unlikely to supply that. 

To progress this theory further would require new evidence.  Maybe some semi fossilised Yeti poo?  You never know there still might be some left on the pass today.

I’ll keep thinking.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 19, 2019, 09:30:21 AM
I think a Yeti theory would go a lot further it someone popped one and drug it into town. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 19, 2019, 12:06:24 PM
Welp, this is the Yeti thread so debating the injuries are not from a Yeti is futile. 

Leaving thought.   Why would the skull wound not taper out into an overall larger area?  When a rock hits a windshield, does it only affect the contact point?   This is common sense stuff thats not worth arguing about.   nea1

So the point of talking about the injuries in terms of them not being made by a yeti is show/demonstrate the unlikely conditions that would be required for the injuries to have been caused by either an accident or human intervention.

I don't know about the likelihood of the injuries tapering wrt impacts on a skull.  I suppose it must be possible for some tapering, but the outline of the injury as shown in the diagram is very distinct.

Naturally I wouldn't expect anyone to be totally convinced by the information presented that it was a Yeti instead of an accident or human attack.

The point that should be more clear is that there is something very odd about these injuries when considering them all together.

Regards

Star man

Well said and well said about your analysis re the Head injury. You have basically laid a fairly clear path towards it not being the result of another Human or even Rock Fall or Hit by a Rock. Along with the Autopsy Findings etc we may be looking at some kind of completely Unknown Quantity. So that brings the YETI THEORY nicely into the Equation, or Equations.

Yeti thumb shaped injury brings Bigfoot to the forefront of all theories as THE undisputable explanation of the DP incident.     

What a headline, and what a claim.   bang1

Definitive claims based on bias and total disregard for common sense, reality, and facts is running a muck something fierce.

I wouldnt say DEFINITIVE CLAIMS. I would say just another THEORY albeit an unusual one. But nevertheless worth looking at. All OPTIONS must be open.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 19, 2019, 12:11:45 PM
Just another observation on Thibo’s skull fracture:

If you orient the ball of the thumb to line up with Thibo’s depressed fracture then the Index finger lines up with the elongated fracture that runs around to the frontal bone and the base of the hand corresponds to the fracture that runs underneath through the saddle.  Try it. 

Regards

Star man

Interesting. Obviously it wouldnt have been a Human Hand because a Human Hand would not have been powerful enough.
Why not? There are many powerful martial artists in the world. It is strong enough to break the skull with a stroke. But you can make this kick with one hand which is powerful and skillful. That's what happened to Tibo. A man of extraordinary power did not want to deal with Tibo much, took pity on him and killed him with a single shot. The others were very angry and broke his eyes and ribs in anger.

I think we may be looking at injuries that were caused by some kind of CRUSHING as opposed to hitting. And as far as I know there is no Evidence of any Human being being able to CRUSH someones SKULL with their hand or to CRUSH someones CHEST with their hand or hands in the way that DUBININA was apparently CRUSHED.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 19, 2019, 12:17:05 PM
Quote
1. Something scary enough to drive them away from the tent without adequate clothing or equipment
2. A careful decent of the slope which would be consistent with calmly walking away from a dangerous animal
3. Dropping the flash light and not stopping to retrieve it
4. The group heads for a tall cedar and climb the tree clearing branches to look back up the slope.
5. Yuri D receives scratches bruises climbing the tree his fingers and toes are severely frost bitten.  It does  not appear that he climbed the tree to collect firewood.
6. Fragments of skin found in the tree bark
7. Yuri D and Yuris K die of hypothermia.  The fire is lit too late to save their lives.


Hmmmm....   I like your enthusiasm and theories Star-Man,  but I think you may be reaching really far now.  Literally everything you list is most definitely not 'evidence' contributed to Yeti or a "large primate" dropped on the pass for some super secret experiment. 

Evidence in favor of what you propose would look more like.....

Yeti hairs
Yeti DNA
Yeti footprints
Yeti den
Yeti fingerprints
Yeti sleeping in their tent. <<. Roflmao

I think you get the idea.  Everything you list and the injuries you allocate can be contributed to.....  Anything.  It can all be an indication of goblins, trolls, mothman, and unicorn farts if you really wanna go down that road. 

Just sayin

The same could be said of most of the THEORIES, ie, where is the real Evidence. The YETI Theory is worth looking at. Plenty of Sightings and experiences by people over the decades.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 19, 2019, 12:19:26 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 19, 2019, 12:19:43 PM
I guess you missed this.

https://youtu.be/RB-afURlP9w
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 19, 2019, 12:21:25 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 19, 2019, 11:03:37 PM
I think it's fair to say that the theory presented fits the sequence of events but like all the other theories here it is not definitive as DB states.  Again as with all other theories the thing that is missing is irrefutable forensic evidence.  For a large ape like creature or Yeti DNA would probably be required.  The remains of such an animal if ever discovered may provide this and would probably be a scientific sensation.

For the DPI it might be difficult to tease out any further evidence.

However, there are some possibilities. For instance if Kolevatov stabbed the beast and drove it away it's possible that the knife went with it.  The knife may still be there somewhere and it might even still be with the remains of the beast.  For instance the beast may have crawled off itself and died some distance from the ravine.  Finding the knife might mean finding the remains of the beast.  Or the knife may have tissue on it skin, or hair that has survIved and may be used for DNA analysis.  It's a long shot, but it's an example of how further information could come to light.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 19, 2019, 11:39:05 PM
Just another thought on evidence and where it could be found.  When the DPI happened Francis Crick had not discovered DNA so it’s unlikely that the bodies were examined for DNA evidence.  Quite often skin and hair of an attacker can be found under the finger nails. 

I would not advocate exhuming the bodies to look for such evidence though as I think they should be left to rest in peace.

If there was some kind of large ape being used in a military test that somehow managed to attack the group (note that apes were used across the world for such tests years ago) then there may be records of the movement and sales of such apes still in existence that could be traced.  Who knows.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 20, 2019, 01:17:30 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 20, 2019, 01:20:17 PM
Just another thought on evidence and where it could be found.  When the DPI happened Francis Crick had not discovered DNA so it’s unlikely that the bodies were examined for DNA evidence.  Quite often skin and hair of an attacker can be found under the finger nails. 

I would not advocate exhuming the bodies to look for such evidence though as I think they should be left to rest in peace.

If there was some kind of large ape being used in a military test that somehow managed to attack the group (note that apes were used across the world for such tests years ago) then there may be records of the movement and sales of such apes still in existence that could be traced.  Who knows.

Regards
Star man

Many Bodies are exhumed if there is a good reason. I have no problem with that and maybe some of the relatives would be ok with that if it helped to resolve this mystery.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 20, 2019, 04:24:26 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 20, 2019, 10:52:31 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Even if the families were supportive of exhumation for further forensic examination, I think there would need to be more compelling reason that just the possibility of DNA samples under the nails.  One thing that may be interesting though is the radiation.  If the bodies clothing was removed and they were washed then any external radiation would have been at least mostly removed.  But if they had been exposed to some radiation on the pass itself then it is likely that they breathed in some of this.  So unless all of their lungs had been removed during autopsy then there will still be evidence of the radiation in the lungs, or at least the remains of the lungs.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 20, 2019, 11:38:05 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/dB9WQbR/2-DD37014-2-BDB-44-DB-A669-08-F1-CB660-C72.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

In terms of forensic evidence I think that the foot prints may be important.  Although there is a suprising lack of detail in the case files. 

I found the above photo interesting.  Although it may be nothing towards the middle right of the photo there are two large symmetrical Foot shaped dark patches in the snow.  I haven’t been able to highlight them but see if you can see them.

There is also another foot print reported as two overlapping prints that looks similar in shape to the foot of an ape.  Again it could be nothing but who knows.

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 21, 2019, 08:44:22 AM
This is an ape foot for comparison with the above post.  Note the rounded shape and the big toe slightly displaced across and slightly lower than the other toes.


(https://i.ibb.co/BVYp6rP/A8376-CC1-41-D0-49-C3-97-FF-50-F2-B1-DE6-C07.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 21, 2019, 09:45:57 AM
I would imagine someone part of the search and investigation would notice drastically different footprints then a humans.   I don't see anything in that pic except human packed prints that the surrounding unpacked snow has blown away from. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 21, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Morski on August 21, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 21, 2019, 10:51:07 PM
I would imagine someone part of the search and investigation would notice drastically different footprints then a humans.   I don't see anything in that pic except human packed prints that the surrounding unpacked snow has blown away from.

Yeah, there is definitely a lack of detail on the foot prints in the file. 

Now the Discovery channel documentary - which I Would agree is sensationalised trash for the most part does include an interview with two of the original search party.  In the interview, according to the programme they do state that they noticed strange large foot prints that were not mentioned in the case files.  Is this also sensationalised trash?  I don't know.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 21, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/HXF7YZW/DF9-AD782-DBD9-42-A7-BA21-98-C9-F3-ECA8-FA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)



The above photo is quite interesting.  If you look carefully there appears to be a bare foot print on top of what seems to be a boot print. 

What is interesting though is the rounded shape of the bare foot print and the big toe is behind the other toes.  Normally a human big toe is the furthest forward but not for an ape. 

Would be interested to know what people think?

Regards
Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 21, 2019, 11:51:27 PM
It's a velenki print, and I don't see an ape print. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 22, 2019, 03:08:03 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
NO. The Autopsies were carried out by people who were aware of the unusual circumstances of this Case. IE A potential CRIME. Therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have mentioned any likely hood of animal or bacterial involvement. YES.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 22, 2019, 03:14:50 PM
I would imagine someone part of the search and investigation would notice drastically different footprints then a humans.   I don't see anything in that pic except human packed prints that the surrounding unpacked snow has blown away from.

Yeah, there is definitely a lack of detail on the foot prints in the file. 

Now the Discovery channel documentary - which I Would agree is sensationalised trash for the most part does include an interview with two of the original search party.  In the interview, according to the programme they do state that they noticed strange large foot prints that were not mentioned in the case files.  Is this also sensationalised trash?  I don't know.

Regards

Star man

Yes its a shame that that programme got a bit carried away with some parts and it certainly did become a bit sensational. I think that the interview with those 2 original searchers and what they said needs to be considered as TRUE. Why would they want to lie ?  They must have had respect and still have respect for the Dyatlov Group that met its demise in such an unusual way.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 22, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
Maybe we can write to the authorities in Russia and demand they enter it as fact in the original case files. 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 22, 2019, 11:05:06 PM
I would imagine someone part of the search and investigation would notice drastically different footprints then a humans.   I don't see anything in that pic except human packed prints that the surrounding unpacked snow has blown away from.

Yeah, there is definitely a lack of detail on the foot prints in the file. 

Now the Discovery channel documentary - which I Would agree is sensationalised trash for the most part does include an interview with two of the original search party.  In the interview, according to the programme they do state that they noticed strange large foot prints that were not mentioned in the case files.  Is this also sensationalised trash?  I don't know.

Regards

Star man

Yes its a shame that that programme got a bit carried away with some parts and it certainly did become a bit sensational. I think that the interview with those 2 original searchers and what they said needs to be considered as TRUE. Why would they want to lie ?  They must have had respect and still have respect for the Dyatlov Group that met its demise in such an unusual way.

Maybe they were telling the truth but I think they would need to come forward independently as the discovery channel programme can't be considered credible?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 22, 2019, 11:11:59 PM
Maybe we can write to the authorities in Russia and demand they enter it as fact in the original case files.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

The case files are lacking in a number of areas and the foot prints are one of these areas.

In a criminal investigation surely it would be expected that the bare feet and boot prints are matched to the hikers?  There are 8 to 9 sets of tracks reported and 9 hikers.  If they found a set of tracks with a foot size that didn't match anyone in the group, or say two people with size 10 shoes and there is only 1 hiker with this foot size its a massive clue.   You get what I mean.  But there's nothing like that.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 22, 2019, 11:32:50 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/fxm95vV/1-FC1-D4-A5-8-BC7-4-E1-E-8026-3-C15-D143-B2-FD.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

The above photo should be marked up with the areas I found interesting.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Morski on August 23, 2019, 04:07:18 AM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
NO. The Autopsies were carried out by people who were aware of the unusual circumstances of this Case. IE A potential CRIME. Therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have mentioned any likely hood of animal or bacterial involvement. YES.

Logical to assume? So they should have mentioned any form of deliberate injury or "mutilation"... And we have none of that.
 
Instead, eyes and tongue are simply "missing", not ripped, nor cut. Or someone/something made them dissapear?
 
How about natural decay and animal activity which exist, instead of cryptochupacabras for who we have only legends and not even one material evidence?
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 23, 2019, 11:26:38 AM
Maybe we can write to the authorities in Russia and demand they enter it as fact in the original case files.

I wouldn't hold my great on that one.

The case files are lacking in a number of areas and the foot prints are one of these areas.

In a criminal investigation surely it would be expected that the bare feet and boot prints are matched to the hikers?  There are 8 to 9 sets of tracks reported and 9 hikers.  If they found a set of tracks with a foot size that didn't match anyone in the group, or say two people with size 10 shoes and there is only 1 hiker with this foot size its a massive clue.   You get what I mean.  But there's nothing like that.

Regards

Star man

Just one of the many questions in this Dyatlov Case. Scarcity of Information and Evidence. There must surely have been the opportunity to take many photos of all the Footprints in the area. We do not appear to have that many photos  !  ?  Also there is not much written about the Footprints. Once again, surely in a potential Criminal Investigation that is just the sort of Evidence you would be looking for.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 23, 2019, 11:30:51 AM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
NO. The Autopsies were carried out by people who were aware of the unusual circumstances of this Case. IE A potential CRIME. Therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have mentioned any likely hood of animal or bacterial involvement. YES.

Logical to assume? So they should have mentioned any form of deliberate injury or "mutilation"... And we have none of that.
 
Instead, eyes and tongue are simply "missing", not ripped, nor cut. Or someone/something made them dissapear?
 
How about natural decay and animal activity which exist, instead of cryptochupacabras for who we have only legends and not even one material evidence?

Well it was a potential Criminal Investigation. We are talking about the possible Murder of 9 people. When the Authorities started searching in earnest in the area of concern they were searching with the knowledge that a Crime may have been committed.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Morski on August 23, 2019, 02:15:54 PM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
NO. The Autopsies were carried out by people who were aware of the unusual circumstances of this Case. IE A potential CRIME. Therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have mentioned any likely hood of animal or bacterial involvement. YES.

Logical to assume? So they should have mentioned any form of deliberate injury or "mutilation"... And we have none of that.
 
Instead, eyes and tongue are simply "missing", not ripped, nor cut. Or someone/something made them dissapear?
 
How about natural decay and animal activity which exist, instead of cryptochupacabras for who we have only legends and not even one material evidence?

Well it was a potential Criminal Investigation. We are talking about the possible Murder of 9 people. When the Authorities started searching in earnest in the area of concern they were searching with the knowledge that a Crime may have been committed.

The potential is there pretty much every time you have a dead body, not to mention nine, I agree.

But what does this have to do with the autopsy report not mentioning animals and bacteria? if the group died in a hotel room - fine, no rodents or predators. But the circumstances are different. In the wilderness you have animals, and whatever the environment, you have bacteria. And, I don`t think coroners should explain the very process of decomposition of the human body, especially in the specific conditions of the Pass. it is common sense. You don`t explain why you get wet during a rain storm.

They just state facts - broken bones, missing body parts, and eventually the cause of death. Relation between assumptions and facts is highly problematic. Think about Thibo`s skull. Rifle butt, fall onto a rock, or Yeti`s hand grab? I see no need to go chase the wild, while you can have the tame.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 23, 2019, 02:45:09 PM
Quote
I don`t think coroners should explain the very process of decomposition of the human body, especially in the specific conditions of the Pass. it is common sense. You don`t explain why you get wet during a rain storm.

Bingo.   okey1
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 23, 2019, 04:52:44 PM
Maybe we can write to the authorities in Russia and demand they enter it as fact in the original case files.

I wouldn't hold my great on that one.

The case files are lacking in a number of areas and the foot prints are one of these areas.

In a criminal investigation surely it would be expected that the bare feet and boot prints are matched to the hikers?  There are 8 to 9 sets of tracks reported and 9 hikers.  If they found a set of tracks with a foot size that didn't match anyone in the group, or say two people with size 10 shoes and there is only 1 hiker with this foot size its a massive clue.   You get what I mean.  But there's nothing like that.

Regards

Star man

Just one of the many questions in this Dyatlov Case. Scarcity of Information and Evidence. There must surely have been the opportunity to take many photos of all the Footprints in the area. We do not appear to have that many photos  !  ?  Also there is not much written about the Footprints. Once again, surely in a potential Criminal Investigation that is just the sort of Evidence you would be looking for.

Exactly.  Very odd particularly considering the search party was asked to pay particular attention to the foot prints.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: sarapuk on August 24, 2019, 11:53:09 AM
And who said anything about a ninja that can jump 50 feet in the air? 

I have been witness on TWO occasions where someone was punched with a bare fist resulting in a crushed eye socket that was worse then Tibs injury. The eye socket is the most robust part of the human skull, and one guy lost an eyeball..... for good.  Anyone that thinks humans cannot inflict these types of injuries especially when utilizing weapons is flat out not in touch with reality.  Same goes for falling out of a tree, into a deep boulder filled ravine etc.

Did they remove the persons TONGUE as well  !  ?  And did they leave TRACES of RADIATION on the person  !  ?

Decomposition is a real thing you know.  Seriously.....  Google it.   grin1

Radiation levels were low, and apparently brought to the site on the cloths of Yuri K.   wink1

And neither is evidence to the prior.

No Evidence of any animals or Organisms that could have caused Decomposition were presented. Radiation or something caused Ivanov great concern. And no Evidence that Radiation was brought to the site on any clothing.

Sure there is....  They were found FOUR MONTHS LATER half submerged in a creek.  It does not take a rocket scientist to establish common sense.  The autopsy reports clearly state 'missing', no mention of torn flesh, cut flesh..... Nothing.  It's called decomposition..... Period.  No need for some fantastical cryptozoology or unrealistic conspiracies.   

Radiation....  Sure there is.  It was only found on very specific articles of clothing which just happen to belong to members of the group that were involved in a RADIATION CLEANUP just prior to the DP trip, and the other worked in refining it.  Again.....  Common sense no brainier.

There is no Evidence of ordinary ANIMALS having had a part in the demise and decomposition of the Dyatlov group. No SIGNS of animal activity at or near the Dead Bodies. No SIGNS of BACTERIA, etc, were reported in the Autopsy. And the Radiation reports leave much to be desired. And this radiation question crops up elsewhere in the Forum.

So, just because Vozrojdenniy did not specifically mentioned wild animals and bacteria - the most obvious natural explanation when dealing with dead bodies rotting for months in the wilderness, we can literally cross them out of the story? Well, I guess that really leaves us with only the Yeti to blame. Or the fireballs, piloted by extraterrestrial astronauts, yes?
NO. The Autopsies were carried out by people who were aware of the unusual circumstances of this Case. IE A potential CRIME. Therefore it would be logical to assume that they would have mentioned any likely hood of animal or bacterial involvement. YES.

Logical to assume? So they should have mentioned any form of deliberate injury or "mutilation"... And we have none of that.
 
Instead, eyes and tongue are simply "missing", not ripped, nor cut. Or someone/something made them dissapear?
 
How about natural decay and animal activity which exist, instead of cryptochupacabras for who we have only legends and not even one material evidence?

Well it was a potential Criminal Investigation. We are talking about the possible Murder of 9 people. When the Authorities started searching in earnest in the area of concern they were searching with the knowledge that a Crime may have been committed.

The potential is there pretty much every time you have a dead body, not to mention nine, I agree.

But what does this have to do with the autopsy report not mentioning animals and bacteria? if the group died in a hotel room - fine, no rodents or predators. But the circumstances are different. In the wilderness you have animals, and whatever the environment, you have bacteria. And, I don`t think coroners should explain the very process of decomposition of the human body, especially in the specific conditions of the Pass. it is common sense. You don`t explain why you get wet during a rain storm.

They just state facts - broken bones, missing body parts, and eventually the cause of death. Relation between assumptions and facts is highly problematic. Think about Thibo`s skull. Rifle butt, fall onto a rock, or Yeti`s hand grab? I see no need to go chase the wild, while you can have the tame.

You seem to miss the point. And also rodents can be found in Hotels. And then you seem to contradict yourself by saying that whatever the environment you have bacteria. And then you say you dont think coroners should explain the very process of decomposition of the human body. But thats precisely what is needed in a potential Criminal Investigation, an EXPLANATION if at all possible.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 24, 2019, 12:21:53 PM
You have bacteria living in your gut, skin etc.... even in a perfectly sterile environment, they take over in death.  Fact

Wonder whats swimming around in creeks.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Morski on August 24, 2019, 02:02:27 PM
Why am I missing the point?

You say, that because Vozrojdeniy did not specifically mentioned animals and/or bacteria, there is no evidence of them being present, hence we need other explanation for the missing body parts of the decomposing for months in the wilderness bodies... Nice, what is your guess then?

I see no contradiction in my words. Ok, you may have rodents in your hotel room, but you can have bacteria everywhere. So it is absurd to eliminate their role in demaging and decomposition of the body, especially in the specific environment of the Pass.

Now, the process of decomposition and the cause of death are two separate things. Obviously, no specific relation was stated. They died because of their traumas, and they decay, because that is what happens when we die. That is probably way too obvious for a coroner, so no need to explain how and why they rot.

Dont get me wrong, but I think you are missing the point, while trying to exclude all reasonable facts, and looking for a sensational cause.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 24, 2019, 05:02:16 PM
Extract from the www:

Hyoid bone, U-shaped bone situated at the root of the tongue in the front of the neck and between the lower jaw and the largest cartilage of the larynx, or voice box. The primary function of the hyoid bone is to serve as an anchoring structure for the tongue.


In Lyuda's autopsy report the "unusual movement of the hyoid bone is mentioned".

Bacterial or rodent damage?

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 24, 2019, 06:20:01 PM
Extract from the www:

Hyoid bone, U-shaped bone situated at the root of the tongue in the front of the neck and between the lower jaw and the largest cartilage of the larynx, or voice box. The primary function of the hyoid bone is to serve as an anchoring structure for the tongue.


In Lyuda's autopsy report the "unusual movement of the hyoid bone is mentioned".

Bacterial or rodent damage?

Regards

Star man

If the entire area is decomposed, is it a wonder it has movement? 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 25, 2019, 01:39:03 AM
Extract from the www:

Hyoid bone, U-shaped bone situated at the root of the tongue in the front of the neck and between the lower jaw and the largest cartilage of the larynx, or voice box. The primary function of the hyoid bone is to serve as an anchoring structure for the tongue.


In Lyuda's autopsy report the "unusual movement of the hyoid bone is mentioned".

Bacterial or rodent damage?

Regards

Star man

If the entire area is decomposed, is it a wonder it has movement?

I don't know.  But it could be an important piece of evidence about the tongue.  I can certainly understand it could be damaged if it was forcefully ripped out, but I don't know enough to say if it could be loosened by decomposition.

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 25, 2019, 04:23:21 AM
Just another quick thought on the hyoid bone.  The autopsy report mentions "unusual" movement of the bone.  If it is normal for the bone to loosen due to decomposition why would the autopsy describe it as "usual"

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2019, 04:31:46 AM
Just another quick thought on the hyoid bone.  The autopsy report mentions "unusual" movement of the bone.  If it is normal for the bone to loosen due to decomposition why would the autopsy describe it as "usual"

Regards

Star man

I dunno but analyzing every word from a google chosen translation......  meh
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Morski on August 25, 2019, 05:52:57 AM
Just another quick thought on the hyoid bone.  The autopsy report mentions "unusual" movement of the bone.  If it is normal for the bone to loosen due to decomposition why would the autopsy describe it as "usual"

Regards

Star man

Probably the "usual" movement is when the whole thing is still there, while "unusual" is when the muscles and tissue holding it, are not there anymore.
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2019, 06:51:22 AM
Is it easier to pull a bone out of a living fish, or a 4 month dead rotten fish? 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2019, 07:11:14 AM
Does it take cryptozoology or aliens to do this slippage?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OFJrow7yaec/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on August 25, 2019, 07:28:00 AM
How about those eyes....  did Yeti suck out those eyeballs? 
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 25, 2019, 04:32:03 PM
Just another quick thought on the hyoid bone.  The autopsy report mentions "unusual" movement of the bone.  If it is normal for the bone to loosen due to decomposition why would the autopsy describe it as "usual"

Regards

Star man

I dunno but analyzing every word from a google chosen translation......  meh

That's just it.  I don't know either.  I'm just relaying what I read. 

Regards

Star man
Title: Re: Exploring The Yeti Theory
Post by: Star man on August 25, 2019, 04:39:57 PM
I have no idea what happened to that person.  I doubt that we will conclude anything from considering what was meant in the reports by specific terms.  My interpretation is that skin slippage or tissue slippage is different from epidermis is absent.  But it depends on how specific the wording of the report was meant to be.  Terms can often be thrown around that sometimes need clarification.

Again I have no idea what happened to the above persons eyes?

Regards

Star man