August 25, 2019, 03:51:20 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Murder Indead  (Read 7131 times)

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March 19, 2019, 03:00:31 AM
Reply #90
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varuna


This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .
le luxe c'est l'eau chaude ( former swiss colonel)
( luxury is hot water)

April 24, 2019, 12:59:25 PM
Reply #91
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.
DB

April 25, 2019, 12:31:48 AM
Reply #92
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.

April 25, 2019, 12:34:26 AM
Reply #93
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.

This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.

I am beginning to think that one of the group themselves may be responsible for the events that night.  I have been firing ideas out on “simplest credible explanation” thread.

I think Dyatlov himself could have triggered the events. 

The scenario goes like this in basic terms:

Dyatlov’s behaviour is unusual on this trip as reported in Zina’s diary.  Maybe he had a thing for Zina and others are flirting with her.?  He is jealou? He is also a bit of a control freak.

Dyatlov starts a fight at the tent that escalates into something more serious.  The group rally on Dyatlov and he pulles a knife and charges at the group.  The group flee running away from Dyatlov down the slope with Dyatlov in persuit.  The group split up scattering in the darkness.  Dyatlov follows the Yuris to the cedar.  The Yuris climb the tree to escape Dyatlov.  Dyatlov waits underneath. He maybe lights the fire and uses burning branches to try and reach the Yuris and force them down from the tree.  He later gives up and heads back up the slope.

Travel 4 meet with a terrible accident on the dark slope falling off a ridge not far from the ravine.

Zina wanders on the slope in dark and eventually gives up and dies from the cold.

Rustem who has been injured in the fight at the tent wanders in the dark alone until he collapses and dies from the cold.

Why this scenario?

If Dyatlov had a thing for Zina then it is unlikely that he would leave her to die on the slope.  Unless Zina was running from him?

There is no evidence of any other people there that night.  And if there were other people lightning a fire under the cedar would give your position away - unless the person lightning the fire is the attacker?

The two Yuris have severe frost bite are poorly dressed and yet their injuries indicate they climb the tree.  If there were others there better dressed you would think that they would climb the cedar.?  And if a fire was lit why did the Yuris have severe frost bite?  It they had frost bite before they lit a fire then how would they be able to strike the matches?  If they lit the fire before they got frost bite then they should not have got frost bite?  Also if they were all working together as a team they should have been able to survive.  Why not keep the fire going?  Why build a separate den.  It points towards a divided group.  Dyatlov’s hands are grimy in the morgue.  Some suggest frost bite but could be because he lit the fire under the cedar and was trying to get the Yuris. 

Regards
Star man






April 25, 2019, 05:02:24 PM
Reply #94
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.

This might not be true of the 1950's and 60's era Soviet Union, but when i was a teenager in the 80's we had a speaker come to our school who lived in the USSR for awhile.  He said something that took me by surprise at the time.  He said that in pure criminal cases such as rape, murder, theft, that sort of thing, the Soviet legal system was not as corrupt and biased against the defendant as in the pure political cases. 

In the case of a dissident complaining about the government, they would manufacture evidence, force people to make false statements, find witnesses who would lie during the trial, that sort of thing.  In criminal cases they didn't do that so much.  If it wasn't a crime against the state, they didn't really care enough to put in the special effort. 

If there was a coverup, it had something to do with a matter greater than just simple murder.  There was a reason for the state to feel threatened in some way.   

Yes that kind of makes sense when you suggest a cover up because of something greater than just simple murder.  And it would follow from that that the Higher Authorities would feel threatened in some way or certainly be very concerned.  Thats assuming there was a cover up, of course.

As my opinion is in favor of the murder " solution " , it is not easy to find a real organised reason for a trained group ( whatever it may be) to make all this mess, looking like a bunch of misfits trying to cover their tracks ( they did not make it anyway ! )  bang1
What I mean here is : it would have been quite easy to make all these people disappear for good and to build a plausible story for this killing . GPU was the best organisation for it .

If it was a Murder by other Humans then it was a botch up, whichever way you look at it.  But the findings do not lead us to a Murder scenario. Not a Murder by other Humans at least.

I am beginning to think that one of the group themselves may be responsible for the events that night.  I have been firing ideas out on “simplest credible explanation” thread.

I think Dyatlov himself could have triggered the events. 

The scenario goes like this in basic terms:

Dyatlov’s behaviour is unusual on this trip as reported in Zina’s diary.  Maybe he had a thing for Zina and others are flirting with her.?  He is jealou? He is also a bit of a control freak.

Dyatlov starts a fight at the tent that escalates into something more serious.  The group rally on Dyatlov and he pulles a knife and charges at the group.  The group flee running away from Dyatlov down the slope with Dyatlov in persuit.  The group split up scattering in the darkness.  Dyatlov follows the Yuris to the cedar.  The Yuris climb the tree to escape Dyatlov.  Dyatlov waits underneath. He maybe lights the fire and uses burning branches to try and reach the Yuris and force them down from the tree.  He later gives up and heads back up the slope.

Travel 4 meet with a terrible accident on the dark slope falling off a ridge not far from the ravine.

Zina wanders on the slope in dark and eventually gives up and dies from the cold.

Rustem who has been injured in the fight at the tent wanders in the dark alone until he collapses and dies from the cold.

Why this scenario?

If Dyatlov had a thing for Zina then it is unlikely that he would leave her to die on the slope.  Unless Zina was running from him?

There is no evidence of any other people there that night.  And if there were other people lightning a fire under the cedar would give your position away - unless the person lightning the fire is the attacker?

The two Yuris have severe frost bite are poorly dressed and yet their injuries indicate they climb the tree.  If there were others there better dressed you would think that they would climb the cedar.?  And if a fire was lit why did the Yuris have severe frost bite?  It they had frost bite before they lit a fire then how would they be able to strike the matches?  If they lit the fire before they got frost bite then they should not have got frost bite?  Also if they were all working together as a team they should have been able to survive.  Why not keep the fire going?  Why build a separate den.  It points towards a divided group.  Dyatlov’s hands are grimy in the morgue.  Some suggest frost bite but could be because he lit the fire under the cedar and was trying to get the Yuris. 

Regards
Star man

But could one man really have be responsible for all that happened to that Group  !  ?  What about the Radioactivity question. And the very serious and unusual injuries at the so called Ravine  !  ? 
DB

April 25, 2019, 11:37:41 PM
Reply #95
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I think one man could be responsible.  The radiation as discussed in other threads could be circumstantial.  Contamination from some nuclear accident.

Regards
Star man

May 09, 2019, 06:58:55 PM
Reply #96
Offline

cennetkusu


A person with a knife can have no chance against 6 men and 2 women. Most of the other youngsters also had knives. None of the teenagers have a knife injury. It is not possible for these professional young people to find a tent in only 1.5 km. Whatever the weather conditions.Already there is an almost straight line from the tent to the cedar tree. I mean, even a normal person can find the tent at night. But it can be a little difficult. It is much simpler for these young people to be professional.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 07:06:33 PM by cennetkusu »
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