November 19, 2019, 07:26:49 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: It’s possible...  (Read 2728 times)

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October 04, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
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Lyndasez


While it’s certainly possible for these hikers to be poisoned by many things, Russia religously kept contamination close to the vest. Certainly a canteen fill up at the wrong stream could make them head for the hills, however I don’t see how they would deliberately be poisoned, can’t figure why...

October 04, 2017, 04:37:29 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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You don't think poisoning could have taken place by accident?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 04, 2017, 07:12:18 PM
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Lyndasez


Oh of course they could’ve been accidentally poisoned a dozen ways, no doubt. I just don’t have a motive yet for someone to cause their being poisoned!  Like loggers, mansi, villain in the group..... drool1

October 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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No, me either.  But Rye Bread being ergot tainted in backwoods 1950s russian is a reality.  They had 3 to 4 bags of 'biscuts', AND they were scattered all over the tent making me think they had a metric crap-ton of 'biscuts'. They are also photographs of them eating them when leaving the loggers.  These loggers Don't see outsiders very much and are very self sustaining. They would stretch out their supplies and likely risk a little ergot from damp storage.....  I almost guarantee you all that bread was given to them (with good intentions?) by the loggers, and that it was indeed rye bread. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 04, 2017, 08:04:49 PM
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Lyndasez


Hmm, I confess it’s a possibility, tainted food, the sour stomach smell and so forth....

However, If the hikers told them something that seemed of a suspicious nature to them I think they’d have turned them into authorities, rather then attack them themselves...like knowingly feeding poisoned bread.

October 04, 2017, 08:19:38 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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No..  I think they received rye bread from the loggers likely with no ill intentions.  It would be an unintentional​ accident.
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 14, 2017, 01:24:31 PM
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mk


Who were the loggers, again?  At what point would the hikers have received the contaminated rye? 

For some reason, I was thinking it was while Yudin was still there.  If so, it's curious that every single one of them would be poisoned to the point of psychosis, but no sign of poisoning with Yudin.

I may be wrong about ergot poisoning, but I got the impression that the serious mental symptoms were not immediate, and that the poison could affect different people differently.  It would be exceedingly unusual, I think, for ergot poison to cause them all to begin hallucinating at the same time.

That's really the main place, I think, where the infrasound theory falls apart, too: they would all have to be affected in the same way at the same time to nearly the same extent. 

If it were just a couple of campers, I could be more easily swayed.

October 15, 2017, 05:47:42 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Ill have to double check when they were at the loggers camp and if Yuri was there. Regardless, who is to say he didn't eat the bread, OR he just happened to not get a tainted portion?

I wouldn't expect them to all have the same reaction if dosing variations existed, body mass variables, and its very possible not 'all' the bread was tainted.  All it takes is for one or two nuts in the group to set off a very bad chain reaction of events.   
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 29, 2018, 07:55:47 PM
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CalzagheChick


Ergot when ground produces a reddish powder which, if we are dealing with dark rye, could very easily be missed. The thing is... ergotism can produce two different results: convulsive or gangrenous.

Signs/Symptoms of convulsive ergotism: nausea, vomiting, hallucinations, mania, psychosis, itching, diarrhea, painful spasms, seizures

Signs/Symptoms of gangrenous ergotism: swelling (edema), sloughing of layers of skin (desquamation), loss of sensation in the extremities as the distal pulses halt, necrosis (tissue death)

Wasn't there evidence that Igor was vomiting blood on the slope? I believe though that's also a sign of hypothermia (hemorrhagic emesis)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 07:23:04 PM by CalzagheChick »

August 22, 2018, 06:22:43 PM
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sarapuk

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Surely poisoning is one of the least feasible explanations.
DB

August 28, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
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CalzagheChick


Surely poisoning is one of the least feasible explanations.

Why?

August 28, 2018, 04:21:32 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Surly an accidental ingestion of tainted back-woods 1950s Russian rye bread is least likely in comparison to Yeti.

No?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 30, 2018, 03:56:28 AM
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Morski


I find poisoning as a relevant theory, especially with regard to ergotism. As far as I remember, while experimenting with ergot back in the 1940s, Alfred Hoffman detects the psychoactive properties of the LSD alkaloid. So it is quite possible that the Dyatlov group might have poisoned themselfs if they ate contaminaited bread/biscuits, etc.
Of course, no way to know what amount and how contaminated food would be sufficient to couse hallucinatoins or any kind of mental dellusions to each of the hikers. I think that it is not mandatory to have all the group members affected in the same extent. Even if only 1-2 were more severely affected, it could be enough to couse panic among the others in the middle of the night inside the tent. Even though I am a bit sceptic about the "fact" that the tent was cut from the inside (as well as the "fact", that the hikers did it in the first place), the possibility of sudden panic attack due to severe hallucinations among the students could explain some of the events that night.
When someone has a panic attack, that person feels a sudden, intense fear that cant be controlled. Also, panic attacks usually start suddenly. They can happen at any time and even without apparent reason. The symptoms usually feel most severe after about 10 to 20 minutes and then go away within an hour, but could take longer time. During the panic attack, people feel as if they are going to surely die. Afterwards they may feel extremely tired or overwhelmed by emotions. There is no universal pattern. Just sayin.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 04:04:14 AM by Морски »

September 13, 2018, 12:52:00 PM
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sarapuk

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But the poisoning theory just doesnt add up. If they were so badly poisoned as to loose it in some way then how come they all managed to  walk a mile in those harsh conditions etc etc.
DB

June 10, 2019, 08:30:42 AM
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Tybee1974


First, let me apologize for posting to a thread which had lulled, but I wanted to share an anecdote, re:
But the poisoning theory just doesnt add up. If they were so badly poisoned as to loose it in some way then how come they all managed to  walk a mile in those harsh conditions etc etc.

In my youth, I was prescribed an ergot-related medication which didn't clear from my system as it should, causing hallucinations, anxiety, and the like. I can confidently state that if I, at the time a pre-teen, could perform my daily tasks (school, extracurricular activities, etc.) all while dealing with the side-effects of the medication, I'm sure that a group of adults could "walk a mile in those harsh conditions".

June 10, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
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sarapuk

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First, let me apologize for posting to a thread which had lulled, but I wanted to share an anecdote, re:
But the poisoning theory just doesnt add up. If they were so badly poisoned as to loose it in some way then how come they all managed to  walk a mile in those harsh conditions etc etc.

In my youth, I was prescribed an ergot-related medication which didn't clear from my system as it should, causing hallucinations, anxiety, and the like. I can confidently state that if I, at the time a pre-teen, could perform my daily tasks (school, extracurricular activities, etc.) all while dealing with the side-effects of the medication, I'm sure that a group of adults could "walk a mile in those harsh conditions".

Exactly. Someone poisoned could think properly enough not to put their life at risk. The Dyatlov Group would have had to have been badly poisoned and completely out of it to leave the safety of their Tent. But their actions do not suggest that they were badly poisoned.  They didnt just walk a mile together but they also appeared to have tried to survive by the Tree line. This is not the actions of people who have been badly poisoned.
DB

June 10, 2019, 07:58:44 PM
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Tybee1974


Actually, what I was trying to say was that they could be greatly affected but still make the trek that they did. I think that's a difference between 1) an actual poison and  2)  something with hallucinogenic properties.

Poison can and likely will incapacitate. The hallucinogenic would be more similar to seeing an oasis in the desert.. They could have thought there was a danger to outrun, or thought there was safety where there was none.

If they were hallucinating, for example, and thought they saw another tent, or a fire, or even a hunter's cabin (I know I'm reaching, there), they could have tried to reach it, bringing themselves into worse conditions.

June 11, 2019, 02:15:00 AM
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Aspen


Hi Tybee, that is a very interesting angle.  But how could 9 individuals have exactly the same hallucination.

June 11, 2019, 06:15:34 AM
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Tybee1974


Hi Tybee, that is a very interesting angle.  But how could 9 individuals have exactly the same hallucination.

Thanks, I'm just trying to think a little bit outside the box, as they say.

As for how could 9 individuals have the same hallucination, it's just as likely that they didn't... However, under that sort of circumstance, the power of suggestion could lead them to fully believe in what one or two say. "I swear to you, I see (a fire/tent/help) over in that direction!"

June 11, 2019, 12:04:46 PM
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sarapuk

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Actually, what I was trying to say was that they could be greatly affected but still make the trek that they did. I think that's a difference between 1) an actual poison and  2)  something with hallucinogenic properties.

Poison can and likely will incapacitate. The hallucinogenic would be more similar to seeing an oasis in the desert.. They could have thought there was a danger to outrun, or thought there was safety where there was none.

If they were hallucinating, for example, and thought they saw another tent, or a fire, or even a hunter's cabin (I know I'm reaching, there), they could have tried to reach it, bringing themselves into worse conditions.

Yes thats a possibility. A problem we all find  is fitting all the separate little events together to make the whole make sense. The injuries to many of the Dyatlov Group certainly need some explanation because they are not normal injuries.
DB

June 11, 2019, 12:38:50 PM
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Tybee1974


I agree with that, certainly. None of us will ever truly know what happened. Nothing quite seems to fit, especially the injuries sustained.

August 28, 2019, 12:03:36 PM
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NkZ


France is reclaiming poisoned (by datura plants) sarrasin wheat: https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/avis-rappel-farine-sarrasin-bio-500g-marque-ma-vie-sans-gluten
 symptoms: hallucinations, incoherent speech , spatio-temporal disorientation, confusion, agitation, view troubled, tachycardy, dry mouth...