October 16, 2019, 06:05:18 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: According to Nigel Evans himself  (Read 3424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

May 19, 2018, 08:14:36 AM
Read 3424 times
Offline

CalzagheChick


I pulled this gem from the original boards just because it's hard to get to with that volume of comments. I thought it was worth resurrecting for argument's sake. There's gotta be somebody out there that likes this theory other than he who pretty much created it, right?:

Having read around this on the internet and including Svetalana Oss’s book “Don’t go there” it is clearly in my opinion ball lightning.
Ivanov believed that UFOs was the best explanation, but he stressed not aliens, just lethal unidentified flying objects/fireballs, the soviet authorities diluting his finding to “unknown compelling force”.

Ball lightning fits in with his view and explains :– mountain lights being observed from elsewhere and reported by the mansi, burns that are otherwise difficult to account for, burnt clothing, burnt tree tops, deaths due to extreme pressure (explosion). Because ball lightning isn’t yet understood by science it also allows the luxury of being stretched to explain skin colour, hair whitening, radiation. But in particular it works extremely well with what is perhaps the key question, why did they leave the tent that way? :-

The occupants are settling down in the tent it is dark outside.

A light (or lights) appear on the mountain bright enough to be noticed inside the tent. Fascinated the occupants start making slits along the top of tent at standing height (say three 30 cm slits, enough for up to nine people) to observe. Zolotaryov picks up his hidden KGB camera and keeps it around his neck for the duration.
Then one of the lights moves very near or even enters the tent at or near to the entrance. N.B. it’s common for ball lightning to pass through matter without leaving a trace.

Everyone very quickly exits the tent via cutting a slit at the back, there is no time to put on any footwear or extra clothes.
Now unable to return to the tent (more lights?) and at risk of exposure they decide to make for the cache of food and kit. But they get lost because (1) ball lightning (electro magnetic energy?) affects their compass?) or (2) the bl is moving down the slope towards the cache? A type of bl is classed as “rollers”. or (3) they’re just disorientated by the dark and the snow (one of the last photos show them to be in whiteout conditions). Anyway they take the wrong path a critical decision that costs them their lives and might have resulted in brawling later if there was a difference of opinion when they set off.

So they choose to camp next to a cedar that gives a good lookout to watch the lightshow back on the hill in order to make a return to the tent when it's safer as now they are not sure where the cache is located.
But the lights move down the hill towards them burning some of the tree tops....
Beyond this point no one knows the order of events but it seems that Doroshenko and Krivonischenko were the first to die. N.B. both had burns that are not easily explained from a small camp fire but perhaps more easily explained by electrical discharge.
E.g.

Historical records state that it is a feature of aggressive ball lightning that it can injure or kill (by burning) some members of a group leaving others unharmed or just with burnt clothing it all depends on the discharge.
For the remaining seven either some or all moved to the ravine and four died due to another ball lightning exploding overhead with tremendous force. The remaining three where lucky enough to be distant enough from the blast not to be killed (n.b. Slobodin had a head fracture). Whatever, they realised that they could not shelter from the lights, their only remaining chance was to get off the mountain by returning to the tent and finding their boots and skis. Sadly weakened by cold and possibly the explosion they never made it. May they rest in peace.

Other thoughts – I don’t like the “murder by others” theory because imo it doesn’t fit the facts, no obvious lethal force, several of the party clearly died of hypothermia and clearly in at least two separate events, probably three. All the other injuries sustained by the party seem to be explainable by - brawling, climbing, collecting firewood, falling out of a tree, previous falls on the skiing trip (one had a bandage), that is all but one injury, Dubinina’s tongue (it’s my assumption the missing eyes can be explained by decomposition in the stream but possibly not?).

Now here it starts getting rather interesting. If you google “cattle mutilations” you will find there is a well documented phenomenon (hundreds of cases?) that includes specific types of head trauma (disappearance of eyes, tongue and some mouth tissue) that are quite similar to Dubinina’s injuries. It’s not only cattle that are affected but other mammalian species as well, including it seems humans, google “human mutilation brazil”. Now if we discount the possibility that this is due to aliens or even humans performing brutal surgical processes we’re left with an unknown natural process as the cause, an energy that removes organ tissue selectively and exits the body via it’s orifices cauterising tissue bloodlessly in the process.

Ivanov’s fireballs, ball lightning? Perhaps even an explanation for spontaneous combustion?
Also Dyatlov Pass is at a very similar latitude to Hessdalen where the “lights” phenomenon has been more closely observed so it would be my conjecture that the Dyatlov lights are created by the same forces. N.B. higher radiation levels have been found at Hessdalen in areas where sightings have occurred.

May 19, 2018, 08:46:36 AM
Reply #1
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Ah....  the ole Nigel Evans.

Passionate guy, but I'm of the opinion he may have a bad case of tunnel vision.  He actually had me partially convince until I realized all the inconsistencies that only make the theory much more fantastical when attempting to explain them.  For instance, the phenomenon would have had to single out the tourists and intelligently target them not once, not twice, but THREE times. 

I wrote a sarcastic piece on the subject here hoping he would join the debate.  I was wrong.
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=29.0
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 19, 2018, 08:58:47 AM
Reply #2
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Did you see the video I made?   

All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 19, 2018, 11:26:25 AM
Reply #3
Offline

CalzagheChick


I was quite taken by your satire of BL. It was a hilarious read... but in all honesty I don't think you were wrong. As much of a satire as it was, it put the whole theory into perspective.

May 19, 2018, 11:29:19 AM
Reply #4
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All theories are flawed.    shock1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 19, 2018, 11:49:41 AM
Reply #5
Offline

CalzagheChick


And I have no intention of marrying any of them because I wish to remain objective. I recognize that every theory is flawed. And in the interest of science I will say that the BL theory is as possible as all of the rest. It's just as good as murder in this forum!  thumb1

May 19, 2018, 11:52:32 AM
Reply #6
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Ball lightening 'murdered' them. 

Solved?      whacky1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 19, 2018, 12:09:49 PM
Reply #7
Offline

CalzagheChick


Holy Hot Ham & Cheese... whacky1

 bow7

May 20, 2018, 11:17:39 PM
Reply #8
Offline

Marchesk


Bah, you've all be fooled by Thor's new axe. He retrieved the time stone and accidentally went back to 1959, unleashing his lighting bolts upon the unwitting hikers thinking they were followers of Thanos or maybe just Loki clones, then struck several of them with the dull end of the axe for good measure.

June 01, 2018, 03:58:48 PM
Reply #9
Offline

CalzagheChick


Bah, you've all be fooled by Thor's new axe. He retrieved the time stone and accidentally went back to 1959, unleashing his lighting bolts upon the unwitting hikers thinking they were followers of Thanos or maybe just Loki clones, then struck several of them with the dull end of the axe for good measure.

I'm so sorry I missed this comment when you posted it but here is my response:

 lol1 lol2 lol1 lol2 lol1 lol2

 whacky1

Thor deserves a thread of his own if that's your story and you're sticking to it. We must leave no stone unturned. All theories are flawed after all. According to LC anyway....

June 01, 2018, 05:36:23 PM
Reply #10
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

June 01, 2018, 05:44:00 PM
Reply #11
Offline

CalzagheChick


If you want to trust somebody whose clearly been foiled by the CIA operatives that are everywhere. Just look at his photos of ball lightning. He thinks he's fooling us all, but I clearly see the alien race holding a flashlight. They came to harvest him.

Proceed with caution. No information from him can be trusted anymore.   neg1

June 01, 2018, 05:58:59 PM
Reply #12
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Geez....   I thought the board could use a little comic relief. 

 I was WRONG!
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

June 02, 2018, 05:54:35 PM
Reply #13
Offline

CalzagheChick


Okay if you of all people can't see that everything I wrote that's nonsensical like alien abductions and CIA operatives? I don't quite know where to go from here.

June 02, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
Reply #14
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Relax.    I see your kidding!
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 27, 2018, 08:22:45 AM
Reply #15
Online

Nigel Evans


Hey i get my own personalised thread!

Ball lightning is a good theory as Ivanov might say.

Even better combined with the NO2 theory.

Now you're cooking on gas...

October 27, 2018, 04:11:10 PM
Reply #16
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I doubt Ball Lightning would be scary enough to send the Group down the mountain side not dressed properly, etc. Better to stay at the Tent rather than go even more exposed on a mountain side for a mile or so. And how can Ball Lightning cause those very serious injuries to some of the Group  !  ?
DB

October 27, 2018, 04:28:56 PM
Reply #17
Online

Nigel Evans


Remember that Ivanov saw all the evidence before the order came to invent an "official report" and he stated that he believed that the lights were connected with the deaths.

"And how can Ball Lightning cause those very serious injuries to some of the Group  !  ?"
By exploding?

October 27, 2018, 04:47:00 PM
Reply #18
Online

Nigel Evans



October 28, 2018, 05:46:43 PM
Reply #19
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yes he said or meant LIGHTS IN THE SKY but I dont recall he meant it was ball lightning in the sky.  And as for injuries to humans by ball lightning, can you let us know of similar injuries caused to humans that were suffered by some of the Dyatlov Group, that can be attributed to ball lightning  !  ? 
DB

October 29, 2018, 05:11:58 AM
Reply #20
Online

Nigel Evans


Ivanov used the term fire orbs -

I believe the case study to be totally convincing today, and back then I held to an opinion that tourists’ death had been caused by some action of an Unidentified Flying Object. On the basis of the evidence before me the role of a UFO appears quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov who interviewed me wrote in his publication that “criminal prosecutor Ivanov had a clear understanding of students’ death being caused by an unidentified object, although in his final document he chose to resort to a ‘casual result’ formula”. My response to a question by the correspondent whether my view of the cause of tourists’ death had changed in the past thirty years was that yes it had, but only in respect to technicality of the action. Where earlier I believed that the orb had exploded emitting some unknown but radioactive energy, in my opinion today the action of energy from the orb might have been of selective nature and directed to three persons of the group only. When I reported about my discoveries, the fire orbs and radioactivity, to A.F. Yeshtokin, he was very categorical in his orders: absolutely everything related to the must be made secret, classified, sealed, sent to special archives and forgotten. Am I to explain that orders had to be and were executed right off?

McCloskey, Keith. Journey to Dyatlov Pass: An Explanation of the Mystery (p. 144). Keith McCloskey. Kindle Edition.


The problem with showing a consistent pattern of injury across BL events is that they are rare and violent events are rarer still and modern pathology is well modern and historical BL violence not recorded in any detail. But the Black Dog of Bungay comes to mind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Shuck#Bungay_and_Blythburgh
Here you're seeing snapped neck injuries ala Kolevatov.

Also with the roller link i posted earlier Yuri K had a serious burn on his leg.

But chest/skull fractures due to BL are harder to find due to pathology being a modern science. But i think it follows that if this phenomena has the mechanical energy to snap necks and smash stone tables and walls then it could create these other injuries.

October 29, 2018, 07:12:31 AM
Reply #21
Offline

Marchesk


Quote
When I reported about my discoveries, the fire orbs and radioactivity, to A.F. Yeshtokin, he was very categorical in his orders: absolutely everything related to the must be made secret, classified, sealed, sent to special archives and forgotten. Am I to explain that orders had to be and were executed right off?

But why would there be a coverup for a natural phenomenon like ball lightening? Even if it wasn't understood then, the higher ups would be able to find out whether there was any military testing in the area that night that could have been responsible. If not, then why would it matter? Let the investigation continue as is since there's nothing secret to uncover.

If you want to create the appearance of a conspiracy, this is the perfect way to go about it.

October 29, 2018, 09:13:49 AM
Reply #22
Online

Nigel Evans


It's a good question.

My answer would be that the authorities didn't know what had happened. This is indicated by the cost of the investigation which was enormous - say a 30 strong team supplied by helicopters for months. The motive for this expense was that some of the party had worked in sensitive areas and the state wanted to know if they had an issue with defection. If they were confident that military testing was responsible then they could have just waited for the summer and found the bodies say a four to six weeks later than they actually did with no expense at all. Also there was no effort to cover it up before May when they found the rav4, public funerals in open coffins with orange brown faces, if the state wanted a coverup they wouldn't have released the first five bodies whose condition fueled accusations of state involvement.
The coverup happened when they found the rav4 and imo it's because of Semyon's camera. it seems that there are missing frames from that roll and the frames we do have can be interpreted as aerial self illuminating objects at 30x magnification (or water damage et al of course). Remember that Ivanov saw all the evidence before the coverup and he steadfastly maintained his view throughout his life that it was the fire orbs. So why coverup a natural phenomena? Well this is the Cold War era and if a natural phenomena can accidentally kill 9 people then perhaps it can have military applications, perhaps they wanted to study it. When Ivanov requested returning to the area in the summer to hunt for more evidence without snow cover it was simply refused and access to the area was shutdown for several years afterwards.
So i think the two best theories for the DPI are natural electro magnetic phenomena or military testing. For me a big clue is the last entry by Igor in the diary where the night before they died he questions the wisdom of going up to the ridge in those conditions. The theory would be that Semyon was KGB and had been seconded to the group with a camera for this purpose, so Igor couldn't overrule the decision even though he didn't like it.

But all we can do is wonder until the real evidence hidden in a secret archive is made public.

October 29, 2018, 11:08:18 AM
Reply #23
Offline

HadrianSharr


It is hard to imagine such a comfort somewhere on the ridge, with a piercing wind, hundreds kilometers away from human settlements.
Dyatlov (last record in the diary)
It's quite sad, the way he's written it.

 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:19:20 AM by HadrianSharr »

October 29, 2018, 02:40:10 PM
Reply #24
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I dont see any real evidence of ball lightning causing similar injuries to those that occurred to some of the Dyatlov Group. Irrespective of ancient reports and legends there are plenty of instances of ball lightning that have occurred and still occur fairly regularly, but no injuries to humans. Or are we to believe that we are dealing with intelligent ball lightning that inflicted such extraordinary injuries on some of the Dyatlov Group, I dont think so.  There may have been ball lightning in the area at the time of the incident but it doesnt mean it was responsible for the demise of the Dyatlov Group. There was snow and sub zero temperatures and wind but that doesnt mean they succumbed just to those conditions. Something happened apart from those things.
DB

October 29, 2018, 04:44:04 PM
Reply #25
Online

Nigel Evans


Rollers seem to be more lethal. At least one of the books I've read on the dpi states that a member of the investigation team attended the funerals and confided to a relative that they had seen a lot of rollers one night and he believed they had only survived because they stayed at their tents. Rollers would be enough to explain why they abandoned their tent so rapidly.

Also from memory there is a log of radio messages between the investigation team and their HQ. One of them is seeking an understanding of repeated explosions that they are hearing "like cannon fire" and asking if there are any military exercises nearby that they should know about. The operator admits that they are quite concerned (and these are fairly tough guys, police and kgb). A good explanation for this cannon fire is that it is out of sight cloud to cloud lightning. If something similar happened at the ravine then you have an explanation for the injuries.

Remember I'm not saying it's all about ball lightning I'm saying is natural electro magnetic phenomena which could include ball lightning (e.g. rollers).

October 30, 2018, 01:29:01 AM
Reply #26
Offline

Marchesk


But all we can do is wonder until the real evidence hidden in a secret archive is made public.

That was a good response. Do you believe the real evidence exists in a secret archive somewhere?

October 30, 2018, 03:24:15 AM
Reply #27
Online

Nigel Evans


Hi, yes as posted in reply #20 above that's what Ivanov said :-

When I reported about my discoveries, the fire orbs and radioactivity, to A.F. Yeshtokin, he was very categorical in his orders: absolutely everything related to the must be made secret, classified, sealed, sent to special archives and forgotten. Am I to explain that orders had to be and were executed right off?


Ivanov's boss Evgeny Okishev confirmed the same in an interview much later aged 94. He even named the officer involved - Colonel Artyukov, It's all in McCloskey's book Journey to Dyatlov Pass.




October 30, 2018, 04:19:08 AM
Reply #28
Online

Nigel Evans


Interesting report in 1619 linking a lightning bolt with a BL roller resulting in one death. = https://www.hist-geo-space-sci.net/9/79/2018/hgss-9-79-2018.pdf

October 30, 2018, 03:12:25 PM
Reply #29
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Interesting report in 1619 linking a lightning bolt with a BL roller resulting in one death. = https://www.hist-geo-space-sci.net/9/79/2018/hgss-9-79-2018.pdf


The death wasnt caused by the ball lightning, there was no physical contact but probably as described ;  [[  The most plausible cause of his death is myocardial infarction
triggered by the “extreme” experience of seeing the
BL. ]]
DB