October 22, 2019, 01:50:45 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: There could’ve been..  (Read 3251 times)

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October 04, 2017, 02:31:28 PM
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Lyndasez


There could’ve been a stove incident, however I don’t think it would send them marching down the hill. They’d have stayed an dealt, as I assume happened with Rustems padded jacket burnt to memory.

October 04, 2017, 06:45:35 PM
Reply #1
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I think Rustems jacket was burned on the camp fire if memory serves me correctly from the diaries.    Of course, if Igors little heater invention was actually a radioisotope heater.... Ya got yourself a reason to panic.    Just an idea given some of the victims field or work/study.  Would lend reason to cover up an embarrassing situation for the Kremlin aswell.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 08:20:15 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 04, 2017, 07:40:53 PM
Reply #2
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Lyndasez


Omg, radioisotope?! How would they use that? Would have to be encased in some lead container which I doubt they’d lug around. Oh no I don’t believe they’d be allowed to use or eat from something radioactive. Plus, it contained a chimney and they state it was fueled with logs...they’d all be glowing in the dark otherwise.... shock1

October 04, 2017, 08:21:37 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Lol...  I dunno!

But I do know nasa etc likely got them down to acceptable sizes and weights. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 20, 2017, 06:44:57 PM
Reply #4
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TDGS7147


I don't think so, the
Eichar's novel states
'The stove is in the center of the tent, not yet assembled, and an open flask of cocoa sits frozen nearby as if waiting to be reheated. There is also a cloth napkin bearing neat slices of ham.

and group journal
Feb. 1, 1959
'While some of the hikers continue to snack on cold food, Zina and Doroshenko set the camping
stove in the center of the tent. Made of folding cast-iron panels and outfitted with a collapsible
chimney that must be twisted into proper shape, the stove is extremely tricky to put together,
particularly with cold hands. According to their mock sports page in The Evening Otorten, the
champion stove assemblers’ record is one hour, two minutes and 27.4 seconds. But on that night, the
stove just sits there in pieces.'

So, the stove wasn't assembled that night and they were low on fire wood, thus  there could not have been a fire.

November 22, 2017, 08:03:10 PM
Reply #5
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
What if.....  there was a second heater.  One that was removed before anyone can see it in all its radioisotope glory?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 01, 2018, 07:25:05 PM
Reply #6

SteveCalley

Guest
Tent stoves need 3,000-5,000 BTU = 800-1,000W.  1 hour, it's a kWh or 3.6 MJ.
Wood burns at 10 MJ/kg. Burning wood at 360 g/hr gives 3.6 MJ per hour; that will heat a tent. A kilo's 2.5 hours. Why bring another fuel source but for play?
#2).  Why camp 1km from the wood fuel?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:49:09 PM by SteveCalley »

April 03, 2018, 08:24:22 PM
Reply #7
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Loose}{Cannon

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Because it works well?   Especially when not having to carry wood up the side of a mountain where there is no wood?   Sounds like a perfect time/place to test out one of Igors little inventions. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 06, 2018, 06:47:25 PM
Reply #8

SteveCalley

Guest
Yes it is right, you are thats hot! ! only four see http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/rps/types.cfm = one kilo watt. Do try.  Always 600°C so pack it properly or it burns things!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 07:04:41 PM by SteveCalley »

May 03, 2018, 05:06:39 AM
Reply #9
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Marchesk


There could’ve been a stove incident, however I don’t think it would send them marching down the hill. They’d have stayed an dealt, as I assume happened with Rustems padded jacket burnt to memory.

I didn't think so either. But if their efforts to vent the tent failed, and while they were waiting for the stove to stop smoking, the worst dressed of them became worried that they would freeze to death exposed on the slope like that. So they decide to go somewhere they can make a fire while they wait on the stove.

May 03, 2018, 05:11:37 AM
Reply #10
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Marchesk


Eichar's novel states
'The stove is in the center of the tent, not yet assembled, and an open flask of cocoa sits frozen nearby as if waiting to be reheated.'

However, the cocoa would have refrozen over the days prior to the tent being found.

There is also a cloth napkin bearing neat slices of ham.

And is that evidence the ham had been cooked, or was going to be cooked?

'According to their mock sports page in The Evening Otorten, the champion stove assemblers’ record is one hour, two minutes and 27.4 seconds. But on that night, the stove just sits there in pieces.'

Right, but that was written after pitching the tent that evening, so it could have been assembled that night to briefly cook food and warm up the tent, then disassembled because their location was causing a draft in the tent while venting the stove.

And the wood would have been used up on the stove. Why not leave the stove at the cache if you're not going to bring wood to heat it?

August 22, 2018, 05:30:26 PM
Reply #11
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I wouldnt have thought a stove incident would have caused all the subsequent actions. And it must have been a very extraordinary event to cause the group to abandon their refuge.
DB

October 26, 2018, 02:55:41 PM
Reply #12
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Marchesk


I wouldnt have thought a stove incident would have caused all the subsequent actions.

Clark Wilkins in his book, "A Compelling Unknown Force", weaves a convincing narrative of how the stove could have been responsible. Basically, the stove starts smoking from embers left in it when someone goes out to use the bathroom, creating a draft that tokes the embers. They had used the stove that night, then partially disassembled it because there was too much wind leave the stove exhaust pipe sticking out.

There are a couple attempts to move the stove outside, but that results in burnt hands, so then Igor at first cuts the tent to air it out, and then when that fails, makes larger cuts to exit. Now they're all standing around outside waiting on the tent to air out, but it's taking too long and they're freezing exposed on the mountain side, so they head for the tree line to wait it out. It's possible Igor had them go the wrong way down the mountain, if they had been trying to get to the supplies they left at the base before hiking up to pitch the tent.

October 26, 2018, 04:47:11 PM
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sarapuk

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I understand though that no stove was prepared on that fatal night  !  ? 
DB

October 26, 2018, 06:40:00 PM
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Marchesk


I understand though that no stove was prepared on that fatal night  !  ?

There were some conflicting accounts about whether there was evidence of the stove being used that night. The stove theory depends on it being partly taken apart after using it, possibly because having a pipe sticking out through the tent would have caused too much of a draft in the wind on the side of the mountain.

I wish it were possible to have certainty about some of the evidence such as the tent tears/cuts, the flashlights being on/off, the nature of the footsteps (orderly/fleeing), etc.

October 27, 2018, 03:32:04 PM
Reply #15
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yes there is conflicting evidence of witnesses who saw the abandoned Tent and its contents. But surely if the Stove had have been lit and used there would have been traces of such and also if the Stove was at fault surely the Group would have dealt with it without abandoning their shelter.  A catastrophic event caused the Group to abandon their shelter the way they did.
DB

June 09, 2019, 12:12:47 PM
Reply #16
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BottledBrunette


I don't understand, if they are walking away from a smoking tent, why would they walk away so far to get away from it?  I'm not a good judge of distances, but, just from the pictures, they seemed to be about a mile away from the tent.  Why would they walk THAT far away just to wait out a smoking tent and on top of that, dressed in practically nothing to keep them warm?  I'm not buying it, but, I'm not totally dismissive. Its plausible in a small increment.

June 16, 2019, 09:23:30 AM
Reply #17
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Well......   I duuno, but they were actually dressed pretty good! 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

July 23, 2019, 09:38:16 PM
Reply #18
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BottledBrunette


For the tent, maybe, but, some weren't dressed for being outside in arctic weather conditions, and even those dressed more warmly than the others, it wasn't enough to protect them from the weather outside of the tent for long periods of time.  Unless I'm missing something............. excuseme

July 24, 2019, 08:28:21 AM
Reply #19
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Marchesk


For the tent, maybe, but, some weren't dressed for being outside in arctic weather conditions, and even those dressed more warmly than the others, it wasn't enough to protect them from the weather outside of the tent for long periods of time.

Depends on the weather that night. Let's say it was only -20°C (-4°F) with mild winds. The question is whether the hikers would have succumbed to hypothermia a few hours later given the clothing they did have on them outside the tent, and given that they were accustomed to being outside in that weather.

July 24, 2019, 01:49:33 PM
Reply #20
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
For the tent, maybe, but, some weren't dressed for being outside in arctic weather conditions, and even those dressed more warmly than the others, it wasn't enough to protect them from the weather outside of the tent for long periods of time.

Depends on the weather that night. Let's say it was only -20°C (-4°F) with mild winds. The question is whether the hikers would have succumbed to hypothermia a few hours later given the clothing they did have on them outside the tent, and given that they were accustomed to being outside in that weather.

Even -10 would be life threatening in that region without proper clothing or shelter.
DB

July 25, 2019, 03:07:33 AM
Reply #21
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Aspen


For the tent, maybe, but, some weren't dressed for being outside in arctic weather conditions, and even those dressed more warmly than the others, it wasn't enough to protect them from the weather outside of the tent for long periods of time.

Depends on the weather that night. Let's say it was only -20°C (-4°F) with mild winds. The question is whether the hikers would have succumbed to hypothermia a few hours later given the clothing they did have on them outside the tent, and given that they were accustomed to being outside in that weather.
 

Even -10 would be life threatening in that region without proper clothing or shelter.

Sarapuk, you are correct on this point.  Folks from warm climates or without experience of spending nights outdoors in the winter do not realize how quickly hypothermia can set in if not dressed or sheltered properly.