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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Baby Sasha  (Read 5371 times)

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May 26, 2018, 02:42:48 AM
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CalzagheChick


Okay well I've been working all week to verify something really REALLY huge that I came upon, but I'm pressed for time and haven't had a chance to visit the Russian sites which I will then have to translate through Google which is HORRIBLE at translating plus something is ALWAYS lost in translation which really bothers me with all of this as it's easier for me as a presumptive and interested American that only speaks/reads/writes in English to miss something or interpret something wrong.

I've come upon a few sources from Russian sites that state that Semyon Zolotaryov was in fact in a civil marriage (kind of like a "common law" marriage where it's not official but they live as husband and wife) to a woman (the only name that's coming up is that her name was Lyudmila which I find ironic and too convenient to be true) with whom he had a baby son named Sasha (his tattoo?)

His wife, possibly named Lyudmila and who possibly worked in a local department of state insurance, was, according to one source Viktor Pavlovich Krikunov, very beautiful, immediately surrendered baby Sasha to an orphanage upon Semyon Zolotaryov's death. When those who personally knew Semyon, wife and baby (Pavel Zinoviev & Vasily Drobotov) asked "Lyudmila" about the disappearance of the child, she claimed that she gave the child to Kuban relatives of Semyon. Meanwhile according to Alla Borovikovskaya (the niece in question) relatives of Semyon claim that when they found out Sasha was put into an orphanage they tried desperately to find him, but nothing could be done. He was lost to the system by then.

Have any of you ever heard any of this? Ever? This could change the way we all see our mysterious party. What if he was desperate to get his Level 3 and get home because he wanted to get home to see his little boy?

I have pictures by the way. Supposedly one photo the baby Sasha exists and it was provided by Alla.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 05:15:41 AM by Teddy »

May 26, 2018, 05:17:09 AM
Reply #1
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Teddy

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This is not news and there are lots of publications on the topic. I asked Galina some time ago and here is part of her mail.


Sasha. Born 10-Feb-1956.
For the first time he is mentioned (that Zolotaryov had a son and his fate is unknown), in Piskareva article in 2012. The mother was common law wife i.e. they were not officially married. At the time she met Semyon, she already had an elder daughter. So the son is the second child. His fate is unclear. There are versions:
- She gave him up to an orphanage (a version that Semyon's relatives adhere to)
- She gave it to Semyon himself and to care for him suddenly his mother moved to Semyon's, leaving her husband and daughters. Speculations are that this was the reason why Semyon was in a hurry to get back from the trek, so he can take care of his son.
- Now that the DNA test has not confirmed that there are Zolotaryov's remains in the grave, a new theory raged out  that he remained alive and generally took the son from his mother himself.
According to surviving documents Sasha did not carry Zolotaryov's family name, but had his mother's name. We do not know whether Semyon was officially entered on the birth certificate as a father. Most likely he was not.

There are more complications, Galina might decide to publish more on the topic.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 05:55:49 AM by Teddy »

May 26, 2018, 05:21:16 AM
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Teddy

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Quote
Zolotaryov's tattoos are very interesting, among them there were images of a five-pointed star, strange shape like beets-heart-fire (in the case files says beets), the name "Гена" (Guena), his year of birth "1921", ДАЕРММУАЗУАЯ (DAERMMUZAUAYA), "Г+С+П=Д", this was common among Soviet soldiers who served together for a long time. Russian letter "Д" stands for "дружба" (friendship). The three letters were first letters of the three soldiers. "С" stood for "Семен", Semyon in Russian. Others two names are unknown. Then we have "Г + С", as well as individual letters "C" next to the star and beets-heart-fire. Most of Zolotaryov's tattoos were hidden by clothing and the rest of the Dyatlov group members didn't know anything about them.

Also there is no "Sasha" among Semyon's tattoos.  nea1

May 26, 2018, 08:11:21 AM
Reply #3
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Loose}{Cannon

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Its news to me....  I never delve into each victims relatives etc. 

Looks like a sticky....   great work!    thumb1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 26, 2018, 10:05:50 AM
Reply #4
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CalzagheChick


Note From Tristan (OP):
Okay This is what I've dug up to go with the original post. I just thought Galina might have more of a formed opinion or information on the matter as a walking enclyclopedia before I posted anything about it. I've been keeping tabs on it all in my notebook.

If this isn't new, and it's not important, then why does almost every source I've ever read continue to paint Semyon Zolotaryov as a mysteriously childless bachelor? There's this ongoing, one, common theme, and it always suggests that he was an odd ball for these times being unmarried and without a family to even show up to his funeral (another unverifiable detail; see below).

I would think that all of these people who have claimed royalties from book deals? They would at least get their research as accurate as possible before ANYTHING ever hit a publisher. If something is unverifiable, it's not dead in the water. It's just unverifiable, but that's not necessarily an automatic trash pit verdict. Something like this deserved to be known! We've been told of these criminal gold teeth and tattoos of a hardened mafioso it would seem (they guy had a tattoo of beets for crying out loud...like saying a tattoo of a grilled cheese sandwich as a mark of The Beast.  lol2) Anyway here's the evidence I've managed to outline in my notebook. I've left nothing out that I wrote down. It's a mess--would you expect anything less with this case?


Here is Alla Borovikovskaya, the niece whose DNA is questionable compared to the remains in Zolotaryov's grave. Most of these photos come from her. He official statement on the nature of Semyon's involvement in the DPI is as follows, "Semyon couldn't be a spy."



Pavel Zinoviev & Visily Drobotov claim to have personally known Semyon Zolotaryov and his "family" as they remember seeing Semyon, "Lyudmila," and the stroller in which baby Sasha would lay going on walks before the DPI. Another eyewitness account from one Viktor Pavlovich Krikonov claims that "Lyudmila" was very beautiful as he'd see her every single month at the local department of state insurance to pay his fees. He distinctly remembers her ring. He also claims that she his the child from her father (unverifiied information as of writing this thread), and when he inquired of Sasha's disappearance he was told that baby Sasha was given to Semyon's Kuban relatives. Kuban relatives say otherwise.



Semyon Zolotaryov, circa 1955. Unknown woman. On the back is written, "I always want to be your best friend." If this is "Lyudmila," I would say it's highly unlikely. Baby Sasha was probably in the vicinity of one year old at the time he was surrendered to an orphanage give or take a few months. Even adding an extra year for gestation would not quite bring us back to 1955.



Semyon standing with cousins Peter and Fedor. I'm always shocked at how many photos of Zolotaryov exist, and in all of them he appears to be made for the camera. I've thoroughly enjoyed going through all of his personal photographs that exist across the internet and seeing him pose with various family, women, and the +9 to +8 in his party before their untimely deaths.



The only known photo of baby Sasha.



More family ties: Semyon Zolotaryov and his sisters. No clue what that says.



This photograph tends to come up a lot related to the search for Baby Sasha. My guess is she is another possiblity for "Lyudmila." The back of this photograph was also made out to Semyon with hopes that he would remember a specific night related to politics.

Thoughts Across the Web:
CT: If Zolotaryov was doing secret operations as many believe, I imagine he would keep his wife secret especially if he got caught or killed. They could go after her.

PS: Perhaps she hid child after death of Semyon out of fear to protect Sasha from KGB/military/Kruschev/USSR 1959/etc.

PS: Alla says they don't know if any family was at Semyon's funeral in Sverdlovsk. Some sources say that Semyon's mother attended, but this is not true. She was not there. Nobody in the family knows how he was buried.

Internet Source Links, all Russian:
https://www.dv.kp.ru/daily/26481.5/3351204/
https://www.dv.kp.ru/daily/26483.4/3352641/
http://zaberaj.ru/nepoznannoe/pereval-dyatlova-na-tele-semena-zolotareva-okazalis-tatuirovki-kotoryx-pri-zhizni-nikto-ne-videl.html

May 26, 2018, 11:28:49 AM
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Teddy

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Quote
If this isn't new, and it's not important, then why does almost every source I've ever read continue to paint Semyon Zolotaryov as a mysteriously childless bachelor? There's this ongoing, one, common theme, and it always suggests that he was an odd ball for these times being unmarried and without a family to even show up to his funeral...
By being so emotional you can't change the opinion of people that are not even present at this forum. I like Zolotaryov and I do not believe a single bit of him being in any way responsible for their deaths and still the fact remains that he didn't marry the mother of his child, and he was hitting on Zina while his 3 year old son was basically fatherless. But Zolotaryov is called worse things that womanizer. The fate of the child will not in any way change the course of the investigation. It doesn't exactly portray him as a family man, or his family as a loving grandparents or else the child will have remained in their custody. Why didn't they raise him?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 11:56:15 AM by Teddy »

May 26, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
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Armide


By being so emotional you can't change the opinion of people that are not even present at this forum.

Teddy, what exactly do you mean here? I don't think I understand your wording.

The fate of the child will not in any way change the course of the investigation.

I agree with you 100%, but if the child is still alive/had children of his own, they would be better candidates for DNA tests. If we find out who the mother of his child was, we might get a lead by finding people who knew Zolotaryov well.


It doesn't exactly portray him as a family man, or his family as a loving grandparents or else the child will have remained in their custody. Why didn't they raise him?

Is it possible that he didn't raise him out of shame or something like that? Since he didn't marry the mother of his child and was hitting on Zina like you said, could it have been an accident that he had a child out of wedlock and that his family wasn't too happy about it? Perhaps his family was more conservative and this child brought dishonour to them, since he came from a long line of Kuban Cossacks where family is everything to them. It's possible that Zolotaryov left, for whatever reason, and the mother of this child was too ashamed to raise the child on her own or ask Zolotaryov's parent for help. Perhaps his parent's didn't even know about this child.

I'm over here ranting but the problem here is that we're not even sure if this child really does exist. From what I saw on KP's website it seems all we have to work with are two witness testimonies and the rest is speculation. I assume if someone knows what was going on in Zolotaryov's life, they would contact KP first anyways.  dunno1

May 26, 2018, 02:18:08 PM
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Teddy

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Sources say bachelor, no source I have ever read says Semyon is childless. And he is an odd ball. This doesn't make him a mass murderer.
The child to be DNA source - this is going to be a quest to prove that yes, the man in the grave fathered this child that will be another saga to find, and proves nothing further.
The relatives want to bring humanity in the character whose remains the media seems to gnaw on... but I am resting my case here, because I don't know what this will lead to. If this re-opens the case - let them pick on. I don't have problem with Tristan's post, I just can't justify the emotional read on it, but that's me. I usually just lay down the information only without an emotional charge.

May 26, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
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CalzagheChick


I'm really unsure how I've gone from uncovering the possibility that Zolotaryov did in fact have a family to Zolotaryov is a mass murderer? I've never even suggested that. I don't even remotely think he had anything to do with this as I believe whole heartedly that he perished with the other 8 and that is in fact his body in that grave.

Furthermore, I am going to give the benefit of the doubt here and assume there is a communication barrier as far as the suggestion of me being emotional. I'm not at all emotional. I asked Galina about baby Sasha upon your suggestion that she's a walking encyclopedia. I woke to find a thread created under Semyon Zolotariov (Victims) so I figured since the thread was created I may as well just dump all of my notes into the thread instead of writing up a formal post as I had originally planned. That's where above you'll see the photos I saved and captioned.

There are now a billion things going on here that I have zero to do with. I am not suggesting Zolotaryov is a murderer or responsible for the Dyatlov Pass Incident. I am not suggesting that Zolotaryov is what Americans love to call "a deadbeat dad." I'm not even sure I would call him that if he did in fact surrender his rights to raise his son. This was a man that was purposely put on the front lines of WW2 with the intention of killing him off under Stalin's grand plan of killing off the Kossacs. Ummmm war is horrifying in and of itself but the fact that he shouldn't have come back from that war by all accounts just tells me that this guy was a special kind of hardened.

Furthermore, I have absolutely NO idea where this suggestion that Zolotaryov was making passes as Zinaida on the trip is coming from, but it sounds like many of you have access to information that I don't. I can only write and question that which I can interpret and read from credible sources. I have NEVER seen the suggestion that Semyon was a man-whore nor do I know what pleasantries or unpleasantries passed between them on this trip from which they would not return. I find it very presumptive to even suggest that any of the members of the Dyatlov party were courting/dating/romantically interested in one another as there is NOTHING suggesting as much save for some words Zinaida wrote to a friend in a letter that she was jealous and presumably hurt seeing Yuri hold hands with a girl in the Blinov party. I can see that bothering her. She was a wounded young girl that was in love with a poor boy. I believe her heart was broken and she tried desperately to make the trip work without disclosing her wounded pride.

That is the ONLY evidence that exists regarding Zinaida. Where all of this other stuff is coming from, I have no idea.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 04:42:21 PM by CalzagheChick »

May 26, 2018, 08:12:33 PM
Reply #9
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All I see is relative pertaining information regarding an fascinating history of one of the victims that I myself had not done any research on, so I appreciate the OP and the work to research it and post it.

No reason to get into the weeds on this one.  I made it a sticky because its flat out good information for everyone to absorb.   No Sasha tattoo......   covered that too!   I guess the tattoo is like the gold teeth scenario......  more bogus wonk wonk created deep within Russia I'm sure. 

All relative information

All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 26, 2018, 08:36:38 PM
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Teddy

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I didn't say you did. I meant it the other way around, that by not publishing information for what a good dad Zolotrayyov is you think people are portraing him as a bad person.
At least this is the vibe I get from
If this isn't new, and it's not important, then why does almost every source I've ever read continue to paint Semyon Zolotaryov as a mysteriously childless bachelor? There's this ongoing, one, common theme, and it always suggests that he was an odd ball for these times being unmarried and without a family to even show up to his funeral (another unverifiable detail; see below).

I would think that all of these people who have claimed royalties from book deals? They would at least get their research as accurate as possible before ANYTHING ever hit a publisher. If something is unverifiable, it's not dead in the water. It's just unverifiable, but that's not necessarily an automatic trash pit verdict. Something like this deserved to be known! We've been told of these criminal gold teeth and tattoos of a hardened mafioso it would seem (they guy had a tattoo of beets for crying out loud...like saying a tattoo of a grilled cheese sandwich as a mark of The Beast.)

Maybe I don't read it right, no need to continue this direction really. Again, I meant it the other way around of what I think I said.
Don't mind me, it's all good.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:16:11 PM by Teddy »

May 26, 2018, 09:18:16 PM
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Vietnamka


  • Semyon's wife name is Tamara, not Lyudmila. Her identity is known, but it is not published because her children still live in a small town and do not want attention from neighbors and gossip about their mother.
  • Tamara is not on any of the photographs shown here. There are pictures of her, but they are not published yet. She is really very beautiful! The type of of woman that men fall head over heels.
  • Tamara has 4 daughters. The eldest was born before Sasha, and three after. Sasha would be the fifth child. All the daughters were born out of wedlock and had the mother's surname. With that, she had a second civil husband after Semyon and they lived happily with him all his life and all her children are very fond of him.
  • Tamara was very worried about Sasha her whole life. She always began to cry from mentioning his name. It was Her tragedy. Daughters always knew that there was a brother, this was not hidden form them, but the topic was not discussed in the family because there was a very painful reaction from her.
  • You can't start to imagine how intelligent, educated, tactful, and successful her daughters are. They speak of their mother with a lot of love and compassion, admitting the fact that Sasha was given away and not understanding how this could happen. This is not an antisocial family and this is not the woman who is just so ready to give up her child. She did everything she could to raise beautiful daughters.
  • Tamara and her second husband were looking for Sasha.
  • The eldest daughter remembers the moment when all in tears, Tamara carried Sasha. He was about a year old. She put him on the porch of a house, and hid the girl in bushes so that she would be on the look out Sasha not to fall from the porch or crawl away. The door opened, Sasha was taken. It was a private house. The daughter is sure that it was Semyon's house and that the door was opened by Semyon's mother.
  • Before this happened, Tamara and Semyon quarreled and he left.
  • The daughter didn't like Semyon, although she remembers him well. She doesn't remember any tattoos. He was strict with her, but at the same time she doesn't mentioned any violence towards her (raising a hand or verbal abuse). But she remembers very well how he forced her to eat all her food. This was very typical after the war. I (Galina speaking) couldn't stand my grandma, because my sister and I were could not leave the table until we finished it all, including crumbs of bread, which fell on the table. My grandmother survived the siege of Leningrad from the first to the last day. Only later did I understand why she did what she did. Semyon, aged 11, survived the Holodomor and the famine of 1945-46.
  • Tamara loved Semyon very much. And then hated him her whole life.
  • Tamara also fought during the war.

This is what is known from Tamara's daughters. It is clear that all memories can be smoothed, especially childhood memories. And it is clear that the daughters will protect their mother, even more because they are loving daughters.

Now looking at it objectively hear is what I do not understand.
Everything happened in a very small village Lermontovo, also closed to outsiders, since uranium was extracted on its territory. All those who came to work in this city, were investigated. The village was recently founded and everyone lived in barracks. Those in one long house have many rooms and one family (no matter how many people) lives in one room. All have a shared toilet, a corridor, a kitchen. There are many neighbors.
I don't understand how is it possible to explain to the neighbors where did the child go. Neighbors could not help but notice. The same goes for the Semyon's family, how could the child disappear without anybody noticing, they lived in barracks too.

At that time in the Soviet Union the children were looked ta very fondly (they were a great asset), especially in the territories that were occupied by the Germans. Maybe you do not know, but in the same village Udobnoy, where Semyon is from, there was a German hospital for which children were selected, their blood was pumped out of them and their bodies were thrown into a pit behind the hospital. In the same pit, after liberation, they found bodies and women, with bullet holes, embracing their children.
A child at that time was considered sacred.

You (and people at the Russian forum) are wondering why is Semyon in the photos surrounded by women. Because there were no men (muzhiks). 25 million men of childbearing age perished. There was a very strong demographic bias. Women did not hope to get married, they wanted to have children at least.
Therefore, at that time, there was a government decree, on the support of single mothers financially. Perhaps this is the reason why none of Tamara's daughters had an official father and why Semyon was not put on the birth certificate. Tamara received money for this under a program that stimulates fertility. And they all lived very poorly. It is now difficult for us to imagine how poor and how difficult it was.
What am I getting at.
  • The rejection of the child threatened Tamara to be condemned by the society. And very strong condemnation that is that could end up with dismissal from work. That didn't happen. She had to have a "storefront" story for neighbors and colleagues.
  • The legal moment. Not only that she gave up the child, but she had to make out a number of legal documents - to write him out from the room, from the kindergarten, from the children's polyclinic, and so on. And everywhere give some reason why she does it. It was all controlled very strictly at the time.
  • If she gave him up to an orphanage and relinquish her rights of a parent - the (condemning) information had to be sent to her place of work and there she had to be reproved at meetings of the work collective and, as a rule, became immediately known to the whole community. And there was always a woman nearby who couldn't have a child or husband.
    But then the child could be quickly adopted.
  • If she did not relinquish her rights of a parent, but simply abandoned the child somewhere, then this child was transferred to an orphanage, but was listed as "lost". There was a search for parents and it could last a lifetime, until the child grew up. Such children were kept in the orphanage, they could not be given up for adoption because orphanhood was not confirmed and there was no relinquishment of the rights from the parents.

The most realistic option to bypass all legal and social difficulties, was to give the child to be brought up in the village to some relatives. It was allowed, because life was really hard.
But the thing is that if she gave Sasha to Semyon's mom or Semyon himself - it was impossible to live in one small village and not meet with her son. So Sasha was clearly taken from Lermontovo. And Tamara did not know where, if she was looking for him.
Now there was information from Semyon's niece that when they were looking for him, they were told "you can't find him, he is in Germany".
I'm not very sure that there was cross-border adoption at that time, so most likely they are talking of Soviet citizens who worked or served in Germany at that time. Those who had the right to live there as families were few. There is a hope that this can be reflected in some archives in Germany - lists of diplomatic workers or military specialists.
The problem is that if Sasha was adopted at the age of one year, he could completely change his name and even his date of birth. And he may not even know about the fact that he is adopted. Although at that time it was not accepted to hide this. Too many children were adopted and this was normal.
By the way, Alla Borovikovskaya, whose photo you posted here, is also a foster child in Zolotaryov's family.

Off topic. Next day after the exhumation I was alone in the cemetery. The sun was shining, although it was cold. I went to church, put a candle for Semyon, and, waiting for the car, just walked along the paths. I heard a bell ringing. Maybe I went crazy (not every day digging up graves), but suddenly I realized that I had to find Semyon's son and make him come to the grave of his father. Semyon needs this, he is asking for it. It was like a bright explosion in the brain.
I will finish this and leave the topic.
There are many theories about Semyon. It so happened that no one knows about him as much as I do. He was a complicated man with a very uneasy fate, but at the same time I have a strong feeling that he was an extremely decent and good person. I can talk indefinitely about Semyon, perhaps enough is enough.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 12:02:04 PM by Teddy »

May 26, 2018, 10:41:14 PM
Reply #12
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Teddy

Administrator
Wow. You keep writing I'll keep translating.
... and @ CalzagheChick I am retracting my words about the emotional charge  wink1
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 03:37:03 AM by Teddy »

May 27, 2018, 07:53:12 AM
Reply #13
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CalzagheChick


Please don't stop talking about Semyon.

But I must ask, how do you know all of this? How did you uncover all of this?

I obviously never could have being an American with limited access.

But also... this whole thing just kind of opened up a ton of other things.

It's kind of crappy when you think of it that this man survived every plague thrown at the Soviet people including by his own government and yet he dies mysteriously on a mountain slope skiing, doing something with which he was pretty much an expert.

May 27, 2018, 07:54:27 AM
Reply #14
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CalzagheChick


By the way...

You just said Alla is adopted. She knows she is adopted.

So all along they've known this DNA testing is moot?

May 27, 2018, 07:59:24 AM
Reply #15
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Teddy

Administrator
By the way...

You just said Alla is adopted. She knows she is adopted.

So all along they've known this DNA testing is moot?

Channel 1 took the material for testing from Tatyana Skulbeda who is a birth daughter of one of Zolotaryov's sisters.
He has many nieces and nephews, I guess they all know who is adopted.

May 27, 2018, 08:03:57 AM
Reply #16
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Teddy

Administrator
Niece Tatyana Skulbeda (left) and gradniece Julia Orehova (right).

May 27, 2018, 08:12:45 AM
Reply #17
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Teddy

Administrator
Komsomolskaya Pravda aslo took material from nephew Pavel Leshchenko, but this test was not successful.


You can read more information about the test here.

May 27, 2018, 08:39:41 AM
Reply #18
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CalzagheChick


So the fact that I brought it up makes it irrelevant to the case because I don't have the means to go into as much detail as Galina who obviously travels to the area and has access to more sources than I could ever hope for. But Galina takes up this story and you're cool as a cucumber about it being in the forum?

I came upon this glitch in Semyon's history through a facebook post in a group to which you belong and contribute findings to occassionally. I followed it up as much as I possibly could from there. You all see what I have in the above post where my notes were dumped.

I am so grateful to Galina for sharing all of that information about this story. It was a very emotional read that challenges all of us to dive further into Soviet history to see just what these people went through at the hands of their own and also foreign governments. It's not right!!! It's no wonder Russian people tend to be suspicious of any and all outsiders or anything that doesn't jive with life as they know it. It's insidious and I hope those responsible have a special place in Hell cut out for them (that's a very big no-no for a devout Catholic to condemn any person to no matter how evil they were in life as we are supposed to pray for the likes of Hitler and Stalin--but I find that's asking a bit much of my human nature.) I only hope she contributes much more.

I am not about these lives having their only legacy be the manner in which they died. Their lives were equally as precious as the sensation of their deaths.

However, I see no reason to keep this forum active and buzzing with ideas, suspicions, theories, and questions if I'm only going to be shot down as irrelevant to the case. Perhaps you need to be more specific on what you're looking to see in your forum because I'm not getting that it's an open discussion. And perhaps I'm simply best served on the sidelines reading that which others have to contribute.

May 27, 2018, 08:55:24 AM
Reply #19
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Vietnamka


Quote
.Komsomolskaya Pravda aslo took material from nephew Pavel Leshchenko, but this test was not successful. 
That's not true. It's something about relationships between KP an tv only. The second  test will be done between Semen and Pavel.

May 27, 2018, 08:58:24 AM
Reply #20
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Teddy

Administrator
@ CalzagheChick
No no no, please don't. If you hadn't brought it up Galina would not have shared with us this story. I can't weave between the site, FB and the forum in the right set of mind. I didn't mean to put you down, I myself was not right and I didn't bring the information I had into the open, because I am tired and exhausted and I need a vacation, and I was jealous that somebody else brought it up. There. I need ya all.

May 27, 2018, 09:01:16 AM
Reply #21
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Teddy

Administrator
The second  test will be done between Semen and Pavel.
Can't wait.

May 27, 2018, 09:22:56 AM
Reply #22
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Per Inge Oestmoen



I am not about these lives having their only legacy be the manner in which they died. Their lives were equally as precious as the sensation of their deaths.

However, I see no reason to keep this forum active and buzzing with ideas, suspicions, theories, and questions if I'm only going to be shot down as irrelevant to the case. Perhaps you need to be more specific on what you're looking to see in your forum because I'm not getting that it's an open discussion. And perhaps I'm simply best served on the sidelines reading that which others have to contribute.


Please stay. No one wants you to leave, and we want you to continue to give words to your thoughts.

May 27, 2018, 09:33:51 AM
Reply #23
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Vietnamka


Guys, so sorry for my English again even I fought I can read fluent. I have problems with writing as Teddy has in rissian. I never study English because was born in the Soviet Union.
I can not understand this talking about "I see no reason to keep this forum active and buzzing with ideas, suspicions, theories, ". Should I stop posting? Just because my post change your vision of the tragedy?
9 people died. If you trust it was avalanche - no need to read about baby Sasha.
If you think it was another reason of the death - you can not understand situation clearly without historical knowledge. I'm here because of 1) I know a bit about this story 2) I glad to spread historical information about the Russia and Russians. About my country I love a lot, even all male members of my family were killed in 1937 and just my 18 years old grandfather spent 5 years in Gulag. And survived. 3) finally doesn't matter who are we - Russians, Americans, from Burkina Faso end etc.  We are human. And you can find answer for some questions as well as russians. If you a looking for answers.
I don't take care about FB, forum or site, it's not my business. If Teddy decides  to transfer some information from one internet form to another- she can do it.
If you don't want to get some information - no problems.
I'm pretty sure you have some hidden relationships I don't want to be involved in. But some times I can not understand is it reasonable to spend my time here ? Any way Teddy can ask any questions in the privet massage and get the answer.
I was writing here for last days because of some misunderstanding about the letter. I saw how Teddy was sad. I just decide to support Teddy into her very difficult job. No war.  Neither cold or hot.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 11:47:06 PM by Teddy »

May 27, 2018, 09:38:27 AM
Reply #24
Offline

Vietnamka


The second  test will be done between Semen and Pavel.
Can't wait.
No way)) 2 weeks.

May 27, 2018, 09:53:06 AM
Reply #25
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Per Inge Oestmoen


It's kind of crappy when you think of it that this man survived every plague thrown at the Soviet people including by his own government and yet he dies mysteriously on a mountain slope skiing, doing something with which he was pretty much an expert.


When we think about it, it is not so strange that the man who was an expert in survival died.

A likely sequence of events is that after the Dyatlov group members were forced out from their tent by unknown attackers, Zolotaryev suggested that they try to build a shelter and to hide there in the hope that the attackers would leave. That was the only thing to do, even though he probably understood that the attackers would not leave. When the attacking group realized that the temperature was not sufficiently low to take the lives of the nine as fast as planned, they hunted the Dyatlov group down and made sure that all the students perished.

Since Zolotaryev and the others who died last were better dressed than the others, they might have survived for days if they had been left alone. Zolotaryev, Kolevatov, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Dubinina therefore had to be killed fast and powerfully, for the murderous mission to be accomplished. Zolotaryev could probably fight, but against these assailants he and the others had no chance.

There is of course no reason to believe that Semyon Zolotaryev was responsible for the tragic outcome in any way.

May 27, 2018, 09:55:36 AM
Reply #26
Offline

Per Inge Oestmoen


The second  test will be done between Semen and Pavel.
Can't wait.
No way)) 2 weeks.


We have time to wait. These things take time.

Thank you very much for being here.

May 27, 2018, 10:02:39 AM
Reply #27
Offline

Armide


Galina, what exactly do you mean? I think that the information you continue to give on this forum is extremely valuable, and any misunderstandings that have arisen have been cleared up. Please stick around, I promise you that your contributions are appreciated. We really don't have any sort of secret relationships between each other, we send PM's around, sure, but I can promise no one's plotting to overtake the forum or something, it's just not everything needs to be posted on the forum to avoid repetition & questions that might have already been answered. Please don't worry about your English either, it's perfectly understandable if you make mistakes, I don't think any of us care too much for other people's English mistakes :)

May 27, 2018, 11:43:23 AM
Reply #28
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Teddy

Administrator
However, I see no reason to keep this forum active and buzzing with ideas, suspicions, theories, and questions if I'm only going to be shot down as irrelevant to the case.

Galina, this is addressed to me because I said that the information about baby Sasha is not new.
I already explained myself, I am grateful that it was brought up by CalzagheChick in the forum because I would say anything about here or on the site and now we have wonderful information from you. My response was

@ CalzagheChick
No no no, please don't. If you hadn't brought it up Galina would not have shared with us this story. I can't weave between the site, FB and the forum in the right set of mind. I didn't mean to put you down, I myself was not right and I didn't bring the information I had into the open, because I am tired and exhausted and I need a vacation, and I was jealous that somebody else brought it up. There. I need ya all.

Galina, don't mind our little squabbles. There are no undercurrents. Lets talk about the case. Doesn't everybody love the insights?
Please feel free to write in Russian. I am more than happy to translate. You guys tip me in PM if I don't see a posting in Russian in time.

May 27, 2018, 11:51:36 AM
Reply #29
Offline

Teddy

Administrator
Galina, to you CalzagheChick says
Please don't stop talking about Semyon.