August 21, 2019, 05:51:10 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Documents of the first volume of the criminal case.  (Read 1273 times)

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September 16, 2018, 08:57:29 AM
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Игорь Б.



September 18, 2018, 01:13:58 PM
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sarapuk

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Thats an interesting link. Useful information.
DB

March 21, 2019, 03:19:04 PM
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NkZ


Chernyshov testimony mentions finding « empty backpacks ». When i go hiking i never empty my bag, on the contrary i tend to keep it as packed as possible to not loose/mix belongings and gain Time when setting off.

March 22, 2019, 01:36:14 PM
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sarapuk

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Chernyshov testimony mentions finding « empty backpacks ». When i go hiking i never empty my bag, on the contrary i tend to keep it as packed as possible to not loose/mix belongings and gain Time when setting off.

A lot of things were found in the Tent. Yes the empty backpacks, more proof that all the Dyatlov Group left in a hurry without time to pack things in order to survive. They clearly didnt have time to even grab the packpacks and any thing else that might be useful.
DB

March 24, 2019, 03:06:08 AM
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NkZ


Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

March 25, 2019, 04:06:23 PM
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sarapuk

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Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.
DB

March 25, 2019, 07:11:09 PM
Reply #6
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Nordlander


That is a good point about dating "The Evening Otorten." I believe papers like "Pravda" did the same as in the Western world, dating evening papers with the next day's date. So now we don't really know if it was written on Jan 31 or Feb. 1 though it is dated Feb. 1.

I remember making these satirical newspapers in high school and college--later we would find some way of duplicating them, whether through a mimeograph or (later) on a copier. That was probably the plan: to give a copy to each person on the trip as a memento.

March 26, 2019, 10:55:09 AM
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WAB


Chernyshov testimony mentions finding « empty backpacks ». When i go hiking i never empty my bag, on the contrary i tend to keep it as packed as possible to not loose/mix belongings and gain Time when setting off.

Probably all it is that at you and they have the different purposes and conditions concerning Dyatlov group. It have specially made backpacks empty and have taken out all things for this purpose what create from them lining isolating heat (cold). Because they did not have anything else. Therefore except backpacks they used many other things: warm jackets, part of any blankets, and the rest that it is possible put all under itself. The problem collect things at them was following on time. They should be engaged in it as the morning.

March 26, 2019, 10:56:51 AM
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WAB


Chernyshov testimony mentions finding « empty backpacks ». When i go hiking i never empty my bag, on the contrary i tend to keep it as packed as possible to not loose/mix belongings and gain Time when setting off.

A lot of things were found in the Tent. Yes the empty backpacks, more proof that all the Dyatlov Group left in a hurry without time to pack things in order to survive. They clearly didnt have time to even grab the packpacks and any thing else that might be useful.

These backpacks do not concern to fast escape. At them other appointment. The reason escape does not concern equipment. These are absolutely different essence and it is not necessary confuse them.

March 26, 2019, 10:59:26 AM
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WAB


Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?).

Evening newspapers in the USSR in the late fifties have just appeared. It concerns almost all cities, except Moscow and Leningrad. Therefore Dyatlov group used this new and "fashionable" name in the newspaper with humour. Then newspaper date was specified that day when it left.

So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

No. The unique place where they could draw it, it was morning and day on February, 01st. Before they have started rise to mountain slope for last spending the night. It newspaper draw above they could not any more. They did not have any possibility and time for this purpose. They conditions did not allow at any desires.

March 26, 2019, 11:01:09 AM
Reply #10
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WAB


Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.

The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.

March 26, 2019, 11:03:00 AM
Reply #11
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WAB


That is a good point about dating "The Evening Otorten." I believe papers like "Pravda" did the same as in the Western world, dating evening papers with the next day's date. So now we don't really know if it was written on Jan 31 or Feb. 1 though it is dated Feb. 1.

It could be written only in the afternoon on February, 01st. During other time they did not have possibility and time it to this make.
Day newspapers in the USSR became in previous day and at night. Therefore on them there was a following number day. Evening newspapers became in the afternoon and on them there was a date of the same number day.

I remember making these satirical newspapers in high school and college--later we would find some way of duplicating them, whether through a mimeograph or (later) on a copier. That was probably the plan: to give a copy to each person on the trip as a memento.

Yes, it was the same algorithm and idea what them to do. In the USSR from did not make multiple copies. Only it is also there difference.

March 26, 2019, 03:06:43 PM
Reply #12
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sarapuk

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Chernyshov testimony mentions finding « empty backpacks ». When i go hiking i never empty my bag, on the contrary i tend to keep it as packed as possible to not loose/mix belongings and gain Time when setting off.

A lot of things were found in the Tent. Yes the empty backpacks, more proof that all the Dyatlov Group left in a hurry without time to pack things in order to survive. They clearly didnt have time to even grab the packpacks and any thing else that might be useful.

These backpacks do not concern to fast escape. At them other appointment. The reason escape does not concern equipment. These are absolutely different essence and it is not necessary confuse them.

Not sure what you mean  ! ?  Any thing found in the Tent must be considered.
DB

March 26, 2019, 03:09:25 PM
Reply #13
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sarapuk

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Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.

The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.

The original Document is important in Court Cases in My Country. Judges prefer to see ORIGINALS. To make sure that there have not be any mistakes or deliberate alterations, etc.
DB

March 26, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
Reply #14
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Nordlander


That is interesting to know that evening papers were new in the USSR and that they were dated to the same day and not the next morning as they are in the West. One reason I had it in my head that the event had happened on the night of Jan 31/Feb. 1 (which I now realize is wrong) is because that date is a winter-spring festival in a lot of cold weather cultures. It is celebrated among some Native American tribes or First Nations in Canada. The Celts celebrated Imbolc on Feb. 1-2, so I wondered if maybe this holiday had been preserved among other traditional Northern cultures like the Mansi, Khanty, and Komi.

March 26, 2019, 11:19:37 PM
Reply #15
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WAB


Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.

The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.

The original Document is important in Court Cases in My Country. Judges prefer to see ORIGINALS. To make sure that there have not be any mistakes or deliberate alterations, etc.

In it you are absolutely right. However, tell to me please: What could give this "document" in case of litigation?

March 26, 2019, 11:22:00 PM
Reply #16
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WAB


That is interesting to know that evening papers were new in the USSR and that they were dated to the same day and not the next morning as they are in the West. One reason I had it in my head that the event had happened on the night of Jan 31/Feb. 1 (which I now realize is wrong) is because that date is a winter-spring festival in a lot of cold weather cultures. It is celebrated among some Native American tribes or First Nations in Canada. The Celts celebrated Imbolc on Feb. 1-2, so I wondered if maybe this holiday had been preserved among other traditional Northern cultures like the Mansi, Khanty, and Komi.

You have paid attention to interesting aspect. On February, 2nd - is Groundhog Day.
(And Simeon Zolotaryov's birthday)  grin1
It is interesting (Groundhog Day) to the western countries, but in the USSR then about it did not know. More precisely about it knew very limited number of people which were engaged in culture of the western countries, as scientists. Dyatlov group precisely knew nothing about it and at all did not suspect. Yury Yudin necessarily would inform me (and all too) on it, when we much spoke about all under pass in 2008 and 2009 during summer expeditions. Among the people of Finno-Ugric ethnic group of such holiday is not present. We contacted approximately this time to local Mansi much, but such they did not tell anything. For accuracy, it will be better, if experts look in scientific works on ethnography of these people.

March 27, 2019, 02:59:59 PM
Reply #17
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?

This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.

The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.

The original Document is important in Court Cases in My Country. Judges prefer to see ORIGINALS. To make sure that there have not be any mistakes or deliberate alterations, etc.

In it you are absolutely right. However, tell to me please: What could give this "document" in case of litigation?

A Criminal Court Case in Britain.  The best evidence will always be the original items. For instance in the question of the Dyatlov Incident : The actual physical Tent will be better evidence than the photographs of the Tent or a written description of the Tent. The actual physical Newspaper will be better evidence than a written description of the Newspaper.  ETC ETC.
DB

March 28, 2019, 11:07:22 AM
Reply #18
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Nordlander


Thanks, WAB, for the information about the Mansi being asked about holidays.

I assumed that the Dyatlov group wasn't aware of any particular holiday. I know the Soviet attitude about folk religion all too well: "superstition." (Btw, German immigrants brought groundhog day to the US and Canada). The day is also the Christian feast day of Candlemas, but of course that doesn't exist in the Russian Orthodox church. I found out that the Khanty holidays, the reindeer feast and the bear feast are in March: spring comes later there, so it makes sense. So my suspicions about that day turned out to be Eurocentric.

I've dropped the "time" issue and think that the event is more about "place." And I don't think the Mansi were involved since they had a better rapport with the Soviets, even being used as bounty hunters for gulag escapees in some cases. I think it's pretty clear from some of the Mansis' testimony, though, that they already knew what had happened. If I were to suspect any locals, it would be the Khanty or Ostyuks, especially the five "wild" members of the tribe that one of the Mansis identified as living near the pass: they are the ones who revolted against the Soviets in the early 30s, leading to so much blood shed on both sides that I don't think the death toll will ever fully be known.