October 21, 2018, 05:47:34 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Map animation by Simon Skeptic  (Read 216 times)

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October 08, 2018, 01:53:28 AM
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Teddy

Administrator

New 3D rendering of the scene on Kholat Syakhl by Simon Skeptic.​ As Simon says his new animated map is not defending any theory but a visual aid for illustration. My comments on this latest video:
  • the bodies are not introduced in the order of when the hikers died, which is pretty much the same the order in which their bodies were found;
  • as Loose}{Cannon pointed there is zero factual evidence Dyatlov was ever 'turned over' post mortem;
    maybe the author is referring to the livor mortis spots on Doroshenko, Kolmogorova and Slobodin found on the top surface of their bodies, which allows speculations that the bodies were moved (turned over) after their death. This finding is controversial.
  • the icy bead under Slobodin's body was witnessed by Akselrod who was among the searchers that found him. Akselrod hasn't seen the bodies of the rest of the hikers, so if he is the only one that registered this details, the rest might have also had icy bed, but it was not documented. So it is correct to say that Slobodin was found on an icy bed, but not that only he had thawed snow underneath;
  • the most dramatic part of the dying places of Dyatlov group is not portrait with details in this video - the ravine. A good addition to Simon's animated map would be the 3D model of the ravine by Vasilii Zyadik.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 12:24:43 AM by Teddy »

October 08, 2018, 05:05:25 PM
Reply #1
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sarapuk


Nevertheless its excellent work. Its what we need. There is a need to keep plugging away so that one day if new EVIDENCE comes to light we are all in a position to fit the pieces together, well thats the theory. It may still need a Sherlock Holmes.
DB

October 08, 2018, 09:34:35 PM
Reply #2
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Loose}{Cannon

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Loose}{Cannon approves this message.   thumb1

I would only add that there is zero factual evidence Dyatlov was ever 'turned over' post mortem. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

October 09, 2018, 12:02:45 AM
Reply #3
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Teddy

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Loose}{Cannon approves this message.   thumb1

I would only add that there is zero factual evidence Dyatlov was ever 'turned over' post mortem.

That too

October 09, 2018, 03:55:06 AM
Reply #4
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DH106


I do like Simon Skeptic's other video linked on the front page that proposes the 'Deadly Cold Theory'. I think this is the best, most 'natural' theory yet.
How come Simon himself doesn't believe it any more? Is he on this forum?

October 09, 2018, 04:44:19 AM
Reply #5
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Teddy

Administrator
I do like Simon Skeptic's other video linked on the front page that proposes the 'Deadly Cold Theory'. I think this is the best, most 'natural' theory yet.
How come Simon himself doesn't believe it any more? Is he on this forum?

I don't believe so but I will invite him, lets see what he says.

October 10, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
Reply #6
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Teddy

Administrator
Skeptic X - he joined today.

October 10, 2018, 01:00:57 AM
Reply #7
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Skeptic X


Hi everybody! Thank you for inviting me to this discussion.
And thank you for commenting on our animation  thanky1

October 10, 2018, 03:24:30 AM
Reply #8
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Skeptic X


Let me reply on your comments.

1. The bodies in the animation are not sorted by any order, since the time of their death is mostly based on  (good) assumptions. We wanted to leave the question open for this animation

2. The assumption that Slobodin died where he lay does - of course - not exclude all the other hikers. I simply wanted to stress that there is good proof for Slobodin dying there

3. Unfortunately I was not able to show the position of the bodies in the ravine. This is due to the flat, map-like layout of the geometry

4. Yes, youre right about my comment on Igors position. It is merely an assumption of mine  (and other authors) that he was turned over, due to his unnatural arm Pose

5. Yes, I dont believe in a natural cause of the deaths any more, but rather a criminalistic. That is why I dont promote the deadly cold theory any more. But this is a very different topic, which I would like to discuss with you

October 10, 2018, 04:51:42 AM
Reply #9
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Teddy

Administrator
Simon, first of all welcome to the forum. I have to warn you that this is a place where you have to stand your ground and not get emotional about critic because the members in this forum had withstood quite a bit of turmoil and we know each other very well. We are not nice to each other but put each opinion/material to the test. Second, congratulations on your skills for 3D modeling using Google earth. Third, back to my comments:
  • Quote
    1. The bodies in the animation are not sorted by any order, since the time of their death is mostly based on (good) assumptions. We wanted to leave the question open for this animation
    I am a designer and I can tell you that you introduce the bodies right to left. You could at least start from the tent - the undisputed origin of the flee. Also nobody argues with the fact that the last four in the ravine died after the rest. You start with them. Still doesn't feel right.
  • The icy bed, it is not comment directed to you, but while I was checking who reported the icy bed, I checked with the Russians, and translated humanly Akselrod's testimony and I think you all may find it interesting.  BTW Akselrod is my favorite search member even before I studied his testimony in details.
  • Quote
    3. Unfortunately I was not able to show the position of the bodies in the ravine. This is due to the flat, map-like layout of the geometry
    Now hold your horses here. Nobody knows where the ravine is. It is all speculations. So how do you know it is flat? Your map can not be so detailed as to show the stream bed even if you knew where it is, or presumed for the sake of the production, as the other 3D artists did. Your argument can only be - Google earth can not go in such details, so you can only show the last four as list. But on the other hand you did show Doroshenko and Krivonischenko as two different 3D figures, so Vasilii Zyadik's 4 from the ravine are perfect completion of your work.
  • Quote
    4. Yes, youre right about my comment on Igors position. It is merely an assumption of mine  (and other authors) that he was turned over, due to his unnatural arm pose
    You find Dyatlov unnatural, but no comment on the last 4? You find them natural? Lyudmila?
  • Quote
    5. Yes, I dont believe in a natural cause of the deaths any more, but rather a criminalistic. That is why I dont promote the deadly cold theory any more. But this is a very different topic, which I would like to discuss with you
    There you go, brand spanking new Deadly Cold Theory board for this purpose.
Again, no hard feelings. Getting noticed and commented is a great compliment on its own. I hardly get involved, but your work "moved me".  okey1
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 05:00:36 AM by Teddy »

October 10, 2018, 01:55:23 PM
Reply #10
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Skeptic X


Hi Teddy,

Thanks for welcoming me, your reply, and also the words of caution  grin1
I know very well how emotional discussions can get over the Dyatlov case.
I started reading everything about it in 2014 and it wont let me go ever since.

Please let me answer your comments:

1.You're right. The order of introducing the bodies may be confusing, especially for newcomers to the mystery. I could have done it differently, but I just went straight ravine to tent. I really didnt want to make any comment on who died when. I put Zina as last, because I wanted to show how far she was still from the tent

3. You misunderstood me. I didnt say the ravine was flat. Actually I meant what you said ^^ the map from Google was flat, so I couldnt properly show the rocks and hence the correct body positions in the ravine. Thats why I left them out. A bit lazy, I admit...

4. Actually I find the position of all the hikers - except maybe Zina - unnatural. But Dyatlovs body is a smoking gun for me, since this is such an unnatural death pose. Thats why I pointed out him.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Only through critique are we improving  wink1

P.s. I will add a 360 degree video rendering of the Mountain soon. Well, if it works ^^
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 02:03:27 PM by Skeptic X »

October 10, 2018, 02:23:30 PM
Reply #11
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Teddy

Administrator
That would be great. Lets roll some stones on this mountain.

October 10, 2018, 03:15:43 PM
Reply #12
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sarapuk


I find the animation very useful, its progressive, and thats what we need. Perfection comes over time. And it will soon be 60 years since the event.
DB

October 13, 2018, 06:51:08 AM
Reply #13
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Skeptic X


Hi everyone!

You might also find the new 360 degree video interesting:



You can pause at any time and look around you. Especially cool if you use VR headset.
Hope you enjoy!

October 13, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
Reply #14
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sarapuk


Very good. 360 degree video. Gives me food for thought.  Things like this can lead to a whole new way of looking at events.
DB

October 18, 2018, 06:44:25 PM
Reply #15
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SimplyMadness


Welcome to the forum Skeptic, your mapping is an invaluable tool to those who want to better understand the layout of the land. Very well done and honestly thank you for your work. It's unforuntate that you have taken down older vidoes regarding theories you no longer subscribe to. I and others I'm sure would still love to hear them out. In particular a "snow sled theory" you allude to in the comment section of the 360 view video. Would love to hear more about that.

October 18, 2018, 07:00:43 PM
Reply #16
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SimplyMadness


Simon, first of all welcome to the forum. I have to warn you that this is a place where you have to stand your ground and not get emotional about critic because the members in this forum had withstood quite a bit of turmoil and we know each other very well. We are not nice to each other but put each opinion/material to the test. Second, congratulations on your skills for 3D modeling using Google earth. Third, back to my comments:
  • Quote
    1. The bodies in the animation are not sorted by any order, since the time of their death is mostly based on (good) assumptions. We wanted to leave the question open for this animation
    I am a designer and I can tell you that you introduce the bodies right to left. You could at least start from the tent - the undisputed origin of the flee. Also nobody argues with the fact that the last four in the ravine died after the rest. You start with them. Still doesn't feel right.
  • The icy bed, it is not comment directed to you, but while I was checking who reported the icy bed, I checked with the Russians, and translated humanly Akselrod's testimony and I think you all may find it interesting.  BTW Akselrod is my favorite search member even before I studied his testimony in details.
  • Quote
    3. Unfortunately I was not able to show the position of the bodies in the ravine. This is due to the flat, map-like layout of the geometry
    Now hold your horses here. Nobody knows where the ravine is. It is all speculations. So how do you know it is flat? Your map can not be so detailed as to show the stream bed even if you knew where it is, or presumed for the sake of the production, as the other 3D artists did. Your argument can only be - Google earth can not go in such details, so you can only show the last four as list. But on the other hand you did show Doroshenko and Krivonischenko as two different 3D figures, so Vasilii Zyadik's 4 from the ravine are perfect completion of your work.
  • Quote
    4. Yes, youre right about my comment on Igors position. It is merely an assumption of mine  (and other authors) that he was turned over, due to his unnatural arm pose
    You find Dyatlov unnatural, but no comment on the last 4? You find them natural? Lyudmila?
  • Quote
    5. Yes, I dont believe in a natural cause of the deaths any more, but rather a criminalistic. That is why I dont promote the deadly cold theory any more. But this is a very different topic, which I would like to discuss with you
    There you go, brand spanking new Deadly Cold Theory board for this purpose.
Again, no hard feelings. Getting noticed and commented is a great compliment on its own. I hardly get involved, but your work "moved me".  okey1

Don't we have overlaid pictures of the bodies draped over the same large rocks that are still in the ravine today? Wait, we have no idea where the ravine even is??

October 19, 2018, 12:46:41 PM
Reply #17
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sarapuk


Welcome to the forum Skeptic, your mapping is an invaluable tool to those who want to better understand the layout of the land. Very well done and honestly thank you for your work. It's unforuntate that you have taken down older vidoes regarding theories you no longer subscribe to. I and others I'm sure would still love to hear them out. In particular a "snow sled theory" you allude to in the comment section of the 360 view video. Would love to hear more about that.

Yes every ones opinions can change, its just part of the evolution of any theory, so no harm in seeing whats gone before.
DB