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Author Topic: Art Bell's radio show  (Read 5302 times)

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October 29, 2018, 02:46:35 PM
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Teddy

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I have been invited to the Art Bell's radio show. The live broadcast is on Nov 16, Friday 9-11 pm PDT.
The opening line of today's phone conversation was - do you think this will be 1 hour or 2 hour show. After half an hour listening to me they said - this will be more than 3 hours, lets make 2 radio shows.
I chose the date to honor Kolevatov's date of birth and I plan to publish an article based on the information Galina shared with us.
Posting this here now to ask if you want me to discuss certain points or particular aspect of the case. What do you think I should talk about? They gave me pretty much the green light to talk about whatever my heart desires. It's a given that I will announce Dyatlov Pass Forum as the only place where people can discuss the case in English.
Your input will be appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 07:20:00 AM by Teddy »

October 29, 2018, 02:49:58 PM
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Teddy

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BTW when I asked how did they come up with the idea of Dyatlov Pass the answer was "Another guest mentioned it as one of the strangest mysteries..."

October 30, 2018, 04:30:27 PM
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sarapuk

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It might be a good idea to keep close to the facts of the case.  We know that there are many speculations and it would be easy to get in to a tangle with all those speculations.  What facts there are could easily take up an hour or 2 and just mentioning the principle speculations, if thats the correct way to put it.  For instance, THE TENT, go with all the facts relating to the search and finding and then the description of the interior and the cuts etc etc. And follow that with the main theories relating to the tent. And so on I guess.  Much like we seem to be doing with the FORUM.
DB

October 31, 2018, 02:26:52 PM
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Teddy

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Sticking to the facts the best I know them is a given. You know that I have never entertained a theory other than them being murdered. But I never state that this is a fact, this is my opinion. I am thinking of making a list of facts that are strange and inexplicable in this case. Since this is what keeps people hashing out on this tragedy. Help me with this. Keep in mind the majority of the audience will hear about this case first time on the show. l will start off the top of my head:

  • The tent had been cut open from within.
  • Nothing was stolen from the tent - money, food, alcohol, clothes, shoes, backpacks​, gear, all this would have been very useful and wasn't cheap and accessible at the time.
  • ​The two girls died virgin.
  • No alcohol was found in any of the deceased.
  • There were no indications of other people nearby on Kholat Syakhl apart from the nine hikers.
  • No traces of avalanche were apparent or reported in the area.
  • Footprints from the camp showed that all group members left the tent of their own accord, on foot, in an orderly way, nobody was running, limping, stumbling, dragged or falling on their way down the slope.
  • ​Forensic pathologist​ ​Dr Vozrozhdenny stated that the fatal injuries of three ​of the ​bodies could not have been caused by another human being, "because the force of the blows had been too strong and no soft tissue had been damaged".
  • ​Some clothes showed radioactive contamination that could not be attributed to an environmental exposure.
  • Hikers were wearing the clothes from other ​members of the group. This is normal if presume the latter were dead already, but i still can't comprehend why Zolotaryov was wearing Lyudmila's hat and coat - they were dying together seem like it, and with similar injuries.

Facts that are hugely blown out of proportion and context, things that are arguably facts or that can be explained:
  • Frame №17 from Tibo camera
  • Frame №34 from Krivo camera
  • Fire balls in the sky reported in February and March 1959
  • Where the tent was pitched (did they drift or get lost)
  • Lyuda's missing tongue
  • Missing eyes on Lyuda and Zolotaryov
  • Orange skin reported at the funerals in March 1959
  • More bodies reported at the Ivdel morgue
  • Bodies reported being seen from the search helicopters lying around the tent
  • Pilots of search helicopters being sabotaged and killed in the following years

To be continued





« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 02:35:24 PM by Teddy »

October 31, 2018, 03:23:28 PM
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sarapuk

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Thats great so far Teddy. Obviously the Cedar Tree and the so called Den area you will mention as well. Along with the Tent those 2 sites seem to be the basis for all that went on.
DB

October 31, 2018, 03:40:59 PM
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WAB


If you need my comments then write in more details what exactly it is required.
I can answer in forum or an e-mail.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:27:39 AM by Teddy »

October 31, 2018, 06:09:08 PM
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Marchesk


but i still can't comprehend why Zolotaryov was wearing Lyudmila's hat and coat - they were dying together seem like it, and with similar injuries.

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. Interesting.

Can't wait to hear the show! Are you going to explain why your opinion is that they were murdered?

October 31, 2018, 07:56:22 PM
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Teddy

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If you need my comments then write in more details what exactly it is required.
I can answer in forum or an e-mail.

I would love to have your comments. Here or in an email, whatever is convenient for you.

October 31, 2018, 08:28:17 PM
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Teddy

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Thats great so far Teddy. Obviously the Cedar Tree and the so called Den area you will mention as well. Along with the Tent those 2 sites seem to be the basis for all that went on.

What about the cedar tree and the den should I mention outside the chronological timeline of discovery?
What about the cedar is important? What about the den is important?
I mean what aspects of this points make the case so controversial?

My exposé will be divided in two parts (at least).
  • What happened
  • Which points are hard to comprehend and explain
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:46:00 AM by Teddy »

November 01, 2018, 08:30:53 AM
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Teddy

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  • Cedar - remains of a fire under old cedar with branches broken up to 5 m high suggesting that hikers had climbed up to look for something or to hide from someone. The clearing is facing in the direction of the tent. This means the hikers made it to the grove and lit a fire. These speaks of sound mind to me.
     
  • Den - the den was well constructed for its purpose with branches at the bottom and clothes on top, but the bodies of the last four were NOT FOUND IN THE DEN but 20 m away. To me that is the strangest fact.
     
  • From the twilight zone of the investigation and why it was conducted so sloppy:
    15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
    “The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko. Bodies of Thibault-Brignoles and Zolotaryov were better dressed, Dubinina’s fur jacket and hat were found on Zolotaryov, her leg was wrapped in woolen trousers that belong to Krivonischenko. Krivonischenko’s knife was found close to the bodies, it was used to cut off branches of young fir trees."
    Here is a very strange fact – knife was never found in the area, only a knife sheath. Lead investigator Lev Ivanov could not have mistaken a sheath for a knife. The branches were cut with tool, that could not be misinterpreted, but the absence of this tool could not be explained without having somebody taken the knife from the crime scene, and that meant that the case could be closed as a “calamity or overwhelming force”.

I have to keep the narration suitable for novices in DP case. When I start talking over the phone about Zolotaryov and exhumation my interlocutor kept asking What??? And she knew what the topic is about. There are people that will tune their radios not even knowing what the show is going to be about.
BTW in Wikipedia still says "the DNA analysis did not reveal any similarity to the DNA of living relatives". No update on the second DNA analysis. If you read that this is not Zolotaryov in the grave - where do we start unraveling this case?

Here is another question that has been bugging me from the very begging - why do people try make this case more complicated thaн already is? I first thought that maybe they don't have the sources in English and this is how they compensate - by making up things, but the Russians are the same. If you listen to their TV and radio, read their forums, they go gaga same way as English speaking followers of the case. So what is it that makes people inflate mysteries and bring to the table anything that comes to mind? Some theories are obviously impossible. Why entertain them? There is some kind of void, a need that unsolved cases fill and respond to.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 12:12:17 PM by Teddy »

November 01, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
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Teddy

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Are you going to explain why your opinion is that they were murdered?

Wait, what? You guys don't think they have been murdered? Will the whole world be talking if they died in an accident?
I think they have been murdered because nothing else can explain:
  • leaving the tent
  • trashing the tent
  • climbing up the cedar
  • dying outside the den
  • the injuries of Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov

You guys have doubts about that? I am not saying anything new. Little can be safely deduced from the facts, but at least that somebody helped them die is out of question. Isn't it?

They were under attack in three separate instances - tent, cedar, den. The whole ordeal must have taken hours. Even if something scared them at the tent - fire ball, avalanche, Yeti, - that something had follow them to the cedar AFTER they had the time to make the fire (this takes time and they were under the impression that will make it through the night), they had the time to make the den, and then something really awful happened to whoever was left alive while they were not in the den. Kolevatov didn't sustain same fatal injuries as the other three. What do you make out of this? Isn't this a moving, following them escalating behavior of assailants? The longer they lived the worse their COD (cause of death).

Don't give me this BS about all of them being injured at the tent and dragged down. Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov injuries would have incapacitated them completely at the spot. Their traumas happened where they died. This is one thing I am completely 100% sure of. I had half of Lyuda's ribs broken, flail chest and I was flat on the spot [if you fancy details]. Nothing could make me move, totally helpless. On top of that a piece of a broken rib pierced her heart. Tibo had his skull caved in. I draw the line at the claim they have been moved from the tent all the way to the den in this condition. Or from any other location as a matter of fact.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:34:01 AM by Teddy »

November 01, 2018, 01:04:32 PM
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WAB


---------------------------
If you need my comments then write in more details what exactly it is required.
I can answer in forum or an e-mail.
====================
I would love to have your comments. Here or in an email, whatever is convenient for you.

All information capture it is impossible also, and you know it . I would like get concrete questions within concrete sections of this theme.
Constantly be present at the Internet I cannot.
You will choose that place where I can answer ( forum or e-mail).
I will answer questions which will be today, and the rest I can answer only then.

November 01, 2018, 01:09:49 PM
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WAB



I would love to have your comments.

Wow! There is a lot of text! I am afraid that at me time at a forum (60 minutes) will be exceeded and it will be necessary to write all in several parts …

Let's begin, say one's prayer.  bigjoke

November 01, 2018, 01:23:14 PM
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Teddy

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November 01, 2018, 01:30:35 PM
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sarapuk

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Are you going to explain why your opinion is that they were murdered?

Wait, what? You guys don't think they have been murdered? Will the whole world be talking if they died in an accident?
I think they have been murdered because nothing else can explain:
  • leaving the tent
  • trashing the tent
  • climbing up the cedar
  • dying outside the den
  • the injuries of Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov

You guys have doubts about that? I am not saying anything new. Little can be safely deduced from the facts, but at least that somebody helped them die is out of question. Isn't it?

They were under attack in three separate instances - tent, cedar, den. The whole ordeal must have taken hours. Even if something scared them at the tent - fire ball, avalanche, Yeti, - that something had follow them to the cedar AFTER they had the time to make the fire (this takes time and they were under the impression that will make it through the night), they had the time to make the den, and then something really awful happened to whoever was left alive while they were not in the den. Kolevatov didn't sustain same fatal injuries as the other three. What do you make out of this? Isn't this a moving, following them escalating behavior of assailants? The longer they lived the worse their COD (cause of death).

Don't give me this BS about all of them being injured at the tent and dragged down. Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov injuries would have incapacitated them completely at the spot. Their traumas happened where they died. This is one thing I am completely 100% sure of. I had half of Lyuda's ribs broken, flail chest and I was flat on the spot [if you fancy details]. Nothing could make me move, totally helpless. On top of that a piece of a broken rib pierced her heart. Tibo had his skull caved in. I draw the line at the claim they have been moved from the tent all the way to the den in this condition. Or from any other location as a matter of fact.

I tend to agree with Teddy on this.  Everything points to it not being an accident. But everything could point to it being Murder, murder of an unusual kind. 
DB

November 01, 2018, 01:33:38 PM
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WAB



If these questions are intended for me, I can answer them is short.

part 1

  • Cedar - remains of a fire under old cedar with branches broken up to 5 m high suggesting that hikers had climbed up to look for something or to hide from someone. The clearing is facing in the direction of the tent. This means the hikers made it to the grove and lit a fire. These speaks of sound mind to me.
     

If begin with the end of this paragraph I can answer consistently so:
1.Healthy mind at them (that who was near a cedar) certainly was. At that time when they already were at a cedar. Though it is impossible to exclude the rests of a stressful condition. But they were not so essential. Volume of work done at a cedar not so big as people often speak about it not doing it in practice. There were enough 2 persons, what all it to do.
2.Cedar Clearing is made from this party because the tree trunk is inclined in the opposite side. There tree has a negative angle of slope. Look at photo of this cedar from the different parties. On a tree they climbed because other wood for a fire was not in that place where they could pass without application of skis.
3.Lifting on height of 5 m it is result of that they have got on 2,5 … 3 m + height of growth of the person + the lifted hands. Thus they could find a few wood for fire.
4.In the conditions of that night neither look (to any party) nor see they could of nothing. It because was dark (the moon should rise only after 4 o'clock AM) - on a slope it would be visible nothing. The direction on tent for them was not known. On a slope there was no illumination. Even if who that shone a small lantern, it would not be visible far. Under military tables light of a pocket lantern is visible at night about for 300 … 400 m, at good weather.
5.   A). Search and to hide it there was nothing it is not necessary. At them was nothing with itself and nothing was on a tree. B). for this purpose what to search and hide it would be necessary to have the reason (besides it was necessary to have possibility). There is no such reason for the sake of which it was necessary to do it.


  • Den - the den was well constructed for its purpose with branches at the bottom and clothes on top, but the bodies of the last four were NOT FOUND IN THE DEN but 20 m away. To me that is the strangest fact.
     

Den is there is a temporary point of a stop for injury of wounded men from a place where it happens to fire. The design den is primitive and obviously specifies that it time. Bodies have been found overdone 4…6 m from den. (As they say in one of our jokes - learn plan equipment!  grin1) It is result of that Kolevatov has not had time to perform even the first part of work on transportation of bodies to a fire place. It forces have come to an end and it has fallen that muscles have ceased to work for weariness and a cold. It has fallen, when it transferred Simeon to den which it has made only recently before this moment.


  • From the twilight zone of the investigation and why it was conducted so sloppy:
The consequence has been spent as usual it becomes. It has been spent as preliminary investigation. For this purpose that could find out there to be available criminal aspect. As criminal actions have not found, business have closed strictly under the law in target dates. I had to see as similar investigations were made and I can tell that there have been made more errors and omissions. All the matter is that city inspectors are not adapted for carrying out of such investigations. All motes in this business search and inflate from a fly to elephant  grin1(there was such fable at writer I.Krylov) because nobody can precisely tell that there has occurred. Knowledge for this purpose does not suffice even now.


15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath.

Whence this information has appeared? The cover from a knife has been found in May on a tent installation site.

Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:

The case termination has been spent strictly under the law which then be in force. I about it wrote recently in this forum. I have written in detail about the reasons of it.

“The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko. Bodies of Thibault-Brignoles and Zolotaryov were better dressed, Dubinina’s fur jacket and hat were found on Zolotaryov, her leg was wrapped in woolen trousers that belong to Krivonischenko. Krivonischenko’s knife was found close to the bodies, it was used to cut off branches of young fir trees."
Here is a very strange fact – knife was never found in the area, only a knife sheath.

I have not understood sense of the underlined phrase.

Lead investigator Lev Ivanov could not have mistaken a sheath for a knife. The branches were cut with tool, that could not be misinterpreted, but the absence of this tool could not be explained without having somebody taken the knife from the crime scene, and that meant that the case could be closed as a “calamity or overwhelming force”.[/li][/list]

Anything surprising in that that the knife and a case for it, has been found in different places. A knife could bear in hands on all slope. It was after cut tent.


I have to keep the narration suitable for novices in DP case.

Certainly. Means it is necessary to have as more as possible accurate idea about that that happens. And not have logic and actual contradictions in the story. Anyway all actions of group about which tell should have accurate cause and effect. And as it is necessary to know that about which speak action was possible to make in those conditions which there were.


 When I start talking over the phone about Zolotaryov and exhumation my interlocutor kept asking What??? And she knew what the topic is about. There are people that will tune their radios not even knowing what the show is going to be about.
BTW in Wikipedia still says "the DNA analysis did not reveal any similarity to the DNA of living relatives". No update on the second DNA analysis. If you read that this is not Zolotaryov in the grave - where do we start unraveling this case?

In March or April of this year at my house were Galina Sazonova and Alexander Alekseenkov. I it then have told that all this game with examination and another is necessary only for attention deduction to that that write in the newspaper «Komsomolskya Pravda». Therefore under their scenario at first examination should answer in the negative, and then (at repeated examination) - positive. As a variant there can be defects in one of these cases. Then this theme can longer keep attention of readers « Komsomolskya Pravda » which do not understand nuances of this business, but want something «such hot». These are usual games of journalists.


Here is another question that has been bugging me from the very begging - why do people try make this case more complicated that is already is? I first thought that maybe they don't have the sources in English and this is how they compensate - by making up things, but the Russians are the same.

Тeddy, please, it is not necessary to be under a delusion. In Russia a parity of those who it discusses is approximately as 8 … 12 persons to infinity. For example, in one of forums on this theme it is registered more than 15000 participants. From them writes more than 1000…1500 from which (I precisely know it) only 20 … 25 can that that to tell with worthy knowledge of case in what that one section. But only 5 … 8 persons can confirm something with the practice, though and not in a full spectrum of problems which discuss. Those who well knows the invoice of a place and all that can be connected with practice of similar activity (travel and search) in general is only 2 persons. And You know who it is.  kewl1  grin1


If you listen to their TV and radio, read their forums, they go gaga same way as English speaking followers of the case.

Exactly. I speak about it here.


 So what is it that makes people inflate mysteries and bring to the table anything that comes to mind? Some theories are obviously impossible. Why entertain them? There is some kind of void, a need that unsolved cases fill and respond to.

The answer to this question as it seems to me, is obvious: everyone wants to feel that it not worse Sherlock Holmes understands any difficult and confused business. And for this purpose it is not obligatory to have education and practice. There is enough only of what to think up something on puzzling.

The end path N1.

November 01, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
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WAB


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November 01, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Also, because we now live in the higher technology era with DNA and all the other modern wonders it may be that at some time in the near future a case could be made to have the closed case reopened as a criminal investigation.  And that would also mean getting people in positions of influence interested, i e, Government people. And if there was nothing to hide they would surely agree  !  ?
DB

November 01, 2018, 02:11:11 PM
Reply #18
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WAB


------------------------
Are you going to explain why your opinion is that they were murdered?
===================
Wait, what? You guys don't think they have been murdered? Will the whole world be talking if they died in an accident?

Will be. It is necessary to have only not clear history and to publicize or promote (PR!) this case. Also it is not necessary to understand business very much deep into. Otherwise it will very soon leave in discussion of the serious scientific phenomena in which many to understand have no desire, and often and have no sufficient preparation. Simply instead of a detective story the boring science which is interesting to nobody turns out.
Here a typical example: the antiscience-fiction novel of Rakhitin (its present surname Rjabuhin) about spies. At it there so much different mistakes (amateurish errors) that further read 3 pages it is already impossible. I tell it about those who understands that, about what he writes.
When he (in 2010) has appeared on one of thematic forums (http://pereval1959.forum24.ru  - now this forum has moved on other platform almost lost-free information - https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/ ) under nick as «Yellow wolf», I to it still then specified in many fantastic errors (aircraft, application Skyhook - I developed analogue of this device, traficability on area of events, searches of tent and navigation, and the most important thing - logic and the expediency of events), in the answer I was received by some sessions of barefaced rudeness and all. All mistakes remained in all subsequent editions and are recently translated into German. Reliability of the information presented there to aspire to zero though probably readers like novels about spies only.

I think they have been murdered because nothing else can explain:

“We" are there is who? Give I will try to make it from my positions? wink1

  • leaving the tent

External influence to mentality from external (the natural!) factor.

  • trashing the tent

It is too most, but as a result of accumulation of dose of influence to brain above a critical limit of shipping.

  • climbing up the cedar

This unique place where they could find wood for fire, within area of actions where they could pass without presence of skis.

  • dying outside the den

I already explained it earlier. The person has an expense of forces (especially in extreme conditions) which is not equal to infinity. The cold and loading influence a tone of muscles very strongly, therefore through certain time of a muscle cease to work. And it is all the same when it has occurred, on distance of 1…5 metrs from a point where it is necessary to come, or some kilometrs

  • the injuries of Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov

Read article https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ey2F7ROB6ZXNJkp49tKPJE24iPP0nKRG/view?usp=sharing  - I there all in detail and has carefully explained from the point of view of biomechanics and district, a climate and a survival in extreme conditions of low temperatures. (!) Article is written in Russian. (!)

You guys have doubts about that? I am not saying anything new. Little can be safely deduced from the facts, but at least that somebody helped them die is out of question. Isn't it?

It is not present not so. It is attempt by misunderstanding of an essence of the matter (the essence of the matter here is very difficult and confused) to explain that that the first has come to mind, without knowing weight of additional conditions and the facts (let small, but they are important).
If all it to do on a place in the winter (providing for itself the necessary safety of actions!!!) that it is possible to be convinced easily of that that I speak.

They were under attack in three separate instances - tent, cedar, den.

Aha. 3 different meteorites have fallen to them in different places and is absolutely exact there where it was necessary …  grin1 It is Joke. There all the matter is that having left tent they had no chances to survive in such conditions and at such clothes as there was it at them.

The whole ordeal must have taken hours.

So it and … Only it was necessary to understand that time of active movement and time when they have already frozen (have died), these are different intervals of time. Approximately 1 to 5. Some people had complications with reception of wounds, but also the clothes at them were different and they had a different intensity of work at movement. From here it is and difference of survival time.

Even if something scared them at the tent - fire ball, avalanche, Yeti, - that something had follow them to the cedar AFTER they had the time to make the fire (this takes time and they were under the impression that will make it through the night),

What for to represent all it so it is difficult? Enough that deficiency of heat at settlement weather and their clothes makes approximately 350 … 400 J, and metabolic heat in rest only 50 … 70 J. And that a demanded thermal protection of clothes was nearby 4,5…5 CLO, and at many it made of them only 1. 1,5 CLO upon. Thus the question of survival was simply a matter of time when they are in such condition.
Fire could give the chance to survive it but only if it was much more больший on intensity. If they have guessed to set fire to a cedar entirely who that of them (it is hardly for all) could have a chance to wait mornings and to find tent. But it too not the fact because it was not present.

they had the time to make the den, and then something really awful happened to whoever was left alive while they were not in the den.

They had that was earlier. There was available a cold without sufficient protection against it.

Kolevatov didn't sustain same fatal injuries as the other three.

Alexander Kolevatova did not have any serious traumas. The biggest that was is a posthumous trauma from a tip of an avalanche probe by search.
Still he had signs of decomposition of tissue at defrosting of a dead body.
And what was still? If I something have forgotten, prompt, please.


What do you make out of this? Isn't this a moving, following them escalating behavior of assailants?

And where though what that signs of "attacking"? They were guided by what intentions? What for all it was necessary for them?

*******************************
End path 2.
Break. Our time is 00.10 AM
If I can return quickly, I will continue.

November 01, 2018, 05:45:41 PM
Reply #19
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Marchesk


Wait, what? You guys don't think they have been murdered? Will the whole world be talking if they died in an accident?

Well, there are a bunch of theories, some of them involve avalanche, stove, ball lightning, infrasound, poison. Not everyone thinks it had to be murder.

My biggest problem with the murder theories is that there is no evidence anyone else was on the mountain that night, and there's no evidence for motive. And I hate going down the rabbit hole of speculation. People can spin the wildest conspiracy theories. I'm also referring to other unsolved or controversial cases.


I think they have been murdered because nothing else can explain:
leaving the tent
trashing the tent
climbing up the cedar
dying outside the den
the injuries of Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov


If it's really the case that nothing else can explain the above, you have a point. I don't know why they left the tent. There doesn't seem to be any definitive evidence one way or another. It is interesting that it appears they walked in single file down the mountain, poorly dressed, after apparently cutting their way out of the tent. That is odd.

I don't know about the trashed tent. Was it supposed to be neatly arranged? Could a minor avalanche have been the cause? Maybe they were just tired and said to hell with it that night? Maybe they were rebelling against Igor's demands.

The cedar tree can be explained. I don't know about the den or the ravine injuries, but they could have triggered an avalanche in the ravine.

You could be right, but I'm not sure the evidence rules out accidental death.

November 01, 2018, 06:28:50 PM
Reply #20
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Teddy

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You could be right, but I'm not sure the evidence rules out accidental death.

What would that accident be? Give me precise COD (cause of death) to argue with.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 06:41:52 PM by Teddy »

November 01, 2018, 08:43:43 PM
Reply #21
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
The tent had been cut open from within.

Oh boy, do I have have issues with this one.   shock1

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=205.0
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:58:46 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 01, 2018, 09:07:19 PM
Reply #22
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Teddy

Administrator
Quote
The tent had been cut open from within.

Oh boy, do I have have issues with this one.   shock1

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=205.0

How would you resume the whole board in one paragraph for the broadcast, no drawings?

November 01, 2018, 09:09:27 PM
Reply #23
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 01, 2018, 09:13:17 PM
Reply #24
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Teddy

Administrator
Say what?

This conversation is what I can say on the radio. What do you want me to say?  One paragraph.

November 01, 2018, 09:17:33 PM
Reply #25
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Teddy

Administrator
For example: the official investigation concludes that the tent is cut form within but that contradicts with...
I can use it in the "shady investigation" part.

November 01, 2018, 09:19:53 PM
Reply #26
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Teddy

Administrator
I have a lot on my mind right now, so if you want to give me the essence of the board I would appreciated. The audience hears about the tent for first time and they have no visuals in front of them. They have no idea what the tent looks like when was found.

November 02, 2018, 05:15:38 AM
Reply #27
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WAB


While I have time size a pair of clocks, I will lay to write that that was earlier. I do`t know how many now will be in time …

Path 3


The longer they lived the worse their COD (cause of death).

Don't give me this BS about all of them being injured at the tent and dragged down.

About whom there is a conversation? Who is BS?

Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov injuries would have incapacitated them completely at the spot. Their traumas happened where they died.

As spoke in one our film: «No. It not is at all the fact. It is more than the fact, it was actually present! [Нет. Это не факт. Это больше чем факт. Так оно и было на самом деле!- in Russian]» (c).  grin1
In article which has specified, is places in which they could be traumatised at the highest probability of it are designated.
You can read in Russian a little, look, please, at least even only at pictures. grin1

This is one thing I am completely 100% sure of. I had half of Lyuda's ribs broken, flail chest and I was flat on the spot [if you fancy details]. Nothing could make me move, totally helpless. On top of that a piece of a broken rib pierced her heart.

You are right 100 %. Here even the doubt cannot arise that at such wounds it could even lie motionlessly without causing to herself a pain. Even only that she should breathe. Splinter penetrated in heart it already practically death.
It is necessary to notice only that those who was a number not could precisely the nobility its condition of an organism. They considered that it is without consciousness presence. The x-ray device at them was not, therefore they could not know how many and where at it that at it an organism grave condition, it was obvious is broken edges, but.


Tibo had his skull caved in.

It is possible to explain this case most easily. There all is obvious from the point of view of biomechanics of a head injury. In article are in detail written parametres of mechanics of this wound and resulted.
By the way, he has assimilated this trauma not there where it have found, and above on a slope. On the scheme of the chief searches Maslennikov the small lamp 3 stone ridges found in area is drawn. This most probable place where it has occurred. There are many "necessary" stones for such wound and a small lamp so is simple (in their position) do not lose and do not throw.

I draw the line at the claim they have been moved from the tent all the way to the den in this condition. Or from any other location as a matter of fact.

If analyze their possibilities of transportation of wounded men and character of traumas it turns out that everything, except one could be wounded only there where them have found.
One person three or more man number of people could transport on distance no more than 1 km for 1 or 1,5 hours. Even if they did not have any special relocators, including a stretcher. In those conditions which can be reconstructed for February, 01st or 02 1959.
Figures of distance and time I take from own practice, and as from practice work of rescue services of Kola peninsula, Polar Ural Mountains and Sayan mountains.

November 02, 2018, 05:23:46 AM
Reply #28
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WAB


--------------------------
You could be right, but I'm not sure the evidence rules out accidental death.
====================
What would that accident be? Give me precise COD (cause of death) to argue with.

What means "Give me precise COD (cause of death)" (c)? How you will define "accuracy"?
I will not ask as it is possible to broadcast this "result of definition" for radio-listeners.
To prove not probably anything and to anybody in this history. Especially if the opponent clings to any trifles.
I already spoke: even if in ХХХХ to year will occur (God forbid, certainly!!) the similar history when there will be a group of 9 persons, on a calendar will be on February, 01st or 02, all will occur on that place and etc. That always will be who the one who will tell that it is not correct. For example, a surname of the head of group not Woodpeckers …. Or group is not from UPI, and from UrFU, though it is same, only different names.
And you speak about accuracy ….
For advancement of the thoughts it is necessary operate not with words about accuracy, and ideas and algorithms.

November 02, 2018, 05:29:07 AM
Reply #29
Offline

WAB


Quote
The tent had been cut open from within.

Oh boy, do I have have issues with this one.   shock1

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=205.0

How much I have understood it is a question about here this picture?

https://image.ibb.co/jyvsdJ/0_a5932_37268c21_XL3.jpg

But you above have also here such picture:

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-tent-02.jpg 

In such kind the tent has been transferred to examination.
The question has been asked to the expert: "Whence the tent - outside or from within has been cut?"
The answer has been given in the conclusion from examination. About the rest the question has not been set, therefore on it and has not been told anything
I do not know whence that picture which is placed on http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=205.0  has been received. But in criminal case it has here such appearance:.
 


And from this it is necessary to understand that cuts № 2 and № 3, it is one cut which passes through an absent piece of a roof of tent. The length of this cut (in that case) turns out nearby 1,5 … 1,8 metr (5…6 ft). Through such cut it was possible to get out even together simultaneously.
As the participant of searches Michael Sharavin has told, they could pull out these pieces of a roof of tent when raked snow by the use of ice axe.
What questions remained about cuts on a tent roof?