November 20, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Carbon 14 is a beta emitter and occurs naturally  (Read 4108 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

November 07, 2018, 03:29:42 AM
Read 4108 times
Online

Nigel Evans


Regarding radioactivity the full text is bertter :-
But if the indigenous people killed everyone, then why were some of the clothes of the victims contaminated with radioactivity? A possible explanation can be found in the diaries. Lyuda wrote: ‘After breakfast, some of the lads, headed by Yuri Yudin, our well-known geologist, went to look for local minerals. They didn’t find anything except pyrite and quartz veins in the rock.’ Pyrite is a mineral regularly found in the Urals. But it isn’t only pyrite, gold and silver that are found in these mountains. There is also uranium ore, which gives off radioactivity, and which most likely fouled the hikers’ trousers and sweaters with radioactive dust.  In the notebooks of journalist Grygoriev, who took part in the rescue operation, there is the following entry: All the backpacks have bits and pieces of rocks … Vishnevsky told me that they were for striking fire in case their matches got damp. I disagreed because I saw that they were rocks taken from the 2nd Severny camp.

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 206-207). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

November 07, 2018, 06:11:06 AM
Reply #1
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
 The articles of clothing that were contaminated belonged to individuals that worked with and handled radioactive substances for a living.   Mystery solved.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 07:45:34 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 07, 2018, 06:17:30 AM
Reply #2
Offline

Jacques-Emile


So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity
Quote
When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.
Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

November 07, 2018, 06:38:06 AM
Reply #3
Online

Nigel Evans


Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14
Interesting that high energy radiation (cosmic rays) and lightning can produce it.  Hmmm

November 07, 2018, 06:41:34 AM
Reply #4
Online

Nigel Evans


The radiation on the clothing was determined to be beta.

and carbon 14 occurs naturally by exposing nitrogen (most common element in air) to high energy radiation (cosmic rays) and electricity (lightning bolts).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

November 07, 2018, 06:44:05 AM
Reply #5
Online

Nigel Evans


Of course it is quite possible that the contamination came from some of the members occupations.

November 07, 2018, 06:49:03 AM
Reply #6
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
We have no idea what substances these two individuals were working with, and I would presume it wouldn't be limited to uranium alone. 

If I recall, the levels detected were BARELY above normal environment levels.  No?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 07, 2018, 07:17:10 AM
Reply #7
Online

Nigel Evans


We have no idea what substances these two individuals were working with, and I would presume it wouldn't be limited to uranium alone. 

If I recall, the levels detected were BARELY above normal environment levels.  No?
The individuals would have probably encountered strontium - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_beta_emitters
The issue with the radiation is the water test that could be interpreted as showing that the initial levels (before being in immersed in flowing meltwater for some time) were very high.

November 07, 2018, 08:44:04 AM
Reply #8
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Physics asks how much as well as what is.
Quote
Carbon-14 may also be produced by lightning bolts but in the amounts negligible compared to cosmic rays.
Humans have 4,000 Bq beta decay from body potassium, and 3,700 from 14C. The amounts of radiation on clothing was less than 10,000 Bq, less than twice what each person's body created.
Potassium-rich meltwater running over minerals could explain all.
Strontium-90 is product nuclear reactor's or weapons. Why there in Urals?

November 07, 2018, 09:31:30 AM
Reply #9
Online

Nigel Evans


Carbon-14 may also be produced by lightning bolts but in the amounts negligible compared to cosmic rays.
Yes but what if some unusual high energy electro magnetic phenomena is occurring at ground level?
 
Potassium-rich meltwater running over minerals could explain all.
Agreed :-
The materials examined contained radioactive traces within normal limits of the natural content for the potassium 40 isotope.
Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (p. 104). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

Strontium-90 is product nuclear reactor's or weapons. Why there in Urals?
Because some of the group worked at nuclear sites or had done recently.


November 07, 2018, 11:16:56 AM
Reply #10
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Sorry, no chance. Magical thinking.

November 07, 2018, 11:21:45 AM
Reply #11
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Well it would help if we had some of those mineral samples to test, but unfortunately along with so many other things, they are missing. How can we know if those samples were in any way radioactive  !  ? 
DB

November 07, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
Reply #12
Online

Nigel Evans



November 07, 2018, 12:47:37 PM
Reply #13
Online

Nigel Evans



November 07, 2018, 05:39:16 PM
Reply #14
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Magical thinking. A thousand trillion magical new atoms of Carbon 14 is the same as background radiation.
Imagine it was the Black knight of the Vaviarga.. Better magic

November 08, 2018, 01:31:22 AM
Reply #15
Online

Nigel Evans



Google's magic doesn't extend to explaining the Black knight of the Vaviarga, but it told me about carbon14 synthesis... kewl1

Good point wrt sloppy thinking.


November 08, 2018, 05:40:23 PM
Reply #16
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Magical thinking. Your "paper" is in an UN-reviewed scientific latrine of a journal auth no citations, no references to it - and no available text!!  Explain what this nonsense claims, ok?

November 08, 2018, 06:20:23 PM
Reply #17
Offline

Jacques-Emile


Also patent is sheer lunacy by crock who does not understand the slightest bit of quantum physics. Microwave? Nonsense. No wonder nobody can solve anything in case. The nuts barge in and muss up everything.

November 08, 2018, 06:52:28 PM
Reply #18
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Nigel, Don't you have a degree in physics?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 09, 2018, 02:35:27 AM
Reply #19
Online

Nigel Evans


Yes. But 40 years ago. I've been a software developer ever since.
So i have more understanding than authority :)
 dance1 dance1 dance1
 whacky1 whacky1 whacky1
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 04:13:40 AM by Nigel Evans »

November 09, 2018, 04:26:01 AM
Reply #20
Offline

Jacques-Emile


So 14N transmutation to 14C and the opposite take place by specific events. What are those called?
If you become entranced by falsehood, and that makes you believe in your own falsehoods, why is anyone else expected to take you seriously?

November 09, 2018, 05:05:43 AM
Reply #21
Online

Nigel Evans


So 14N transmutation to 14C and the opposite take place by specific events. What are those called?
If you become entranced by falsehood, and that makes you believe in your own falsehoods, why is anyone else expected to take you seriously?

I've applied for the above paper which hasn't arrived yet and you may well be correct in your (low) opinion of it.

It's my opinion that it is probable that a full understanding of these phenomena belongs to the science of the future and that the "journey to full understanding" will leave a lot of falsehoods in it's wake. But i like the microwave soliton theory and Wu's relativistic electrons particularly wrt rollers which would seem to explain the strong mechanical energy. Rollers are my favourite guess at the cause of the DPI. If one came close enough to break a ski pole they would exit very rapidly and that's what the mysterious photos are of.

So to answer your question, i don't know (and if i did i might be a candidate for a Nobel prize? :).
But i do know that a small percentage of cosmic rays are high energy photons and it is now understood that lightning bolts produce positrons that annihilate with X rays, so there would seem to be a plausible path there to carbon14 production in some quantity. As to explaining the required scale well maybe that belongs to the science of the future (or not).

As we don't know the isotope(s) involved in the DPI and as you say potassium would offer an explanation anyway then this discussion isn't very important wrt understanding the DPI. But it's an interesting spin off.

November 09, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Reply #22
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Shall we just say that there were RADIATION levels found at the Dyatlov Pass area that were considered relevant to the investigation, but no more came of it.  And no more came of it because the investigation was abruptly brought to an end.
DB

November 09, 2018, 10:58:18 AM
Reply #23
Online

Nigel Evans


Shall we just say that there were RADIATION levels found at the Dyatlov Pass area that were considered relevant to the investigation, but no more came of it.  And no more came of it because the investigation was abruptly brought to an end.
The radiation levels on the clothing can be explained as being of natural origin. Any attempt to look beyond this is of academic interest only.

February 25, 2019, 04:01:13 PM
Reply #24
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity
Quote
When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.
Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

Hmm are you sure that no gamma radiation was detected along with the beta?  Because Strontium 90 , by-product of fission reactions is a specific beta emitter only and decays with little to no gamma radiation.  Did they analyses for any isotopes?

February 25, 2019, 04:07:04 PM
Reply #25
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Sounds very much like strontium 90 to me.  Ifmonly we could analyse those tree rings for it.

February 25, 2019, 05:16:15 PM
Reply #26
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
So sorry, but sloppy. See thread here on radioactivity
Quote
When determining the type of radiation, it is established that the activity takes place due to beta particles . Alpha particles and gamma quanta were not detected.
Uranium is alpha emitter. Uranium not present.

Hmm are you sure that no gamma radiation was detected along with the beta?  Because Strontium 90 , by-product of fission reactions is a specific beta emitter only and decays with little to no gamma radiation.  Did they analyses for any isotopes?

Thats a good point. I guess only the Authorities can answer that type of question though. And they havnt done so far as far as I know.
DB

February 26, 2019, 12:01:31 AM
Reply #27
Offline

Monika


The whole issue with radioactive contamination is strange.
- If it was the result of workplace contamination of two members of Dyatlovs, I would expect it to be on other parts of their clothing, also on their hair and body. And not just on their trousers.
- And I doubt that when working with radioactive material (even at a low concentration), they would wear a pair of hiking pants and jacket at the workplace. If they worked with even a weak radioactive material, they had to change into work clothes.
- Also, the contaminations in the air directly at the place of the Dyatlov pass incident I would expect whole body to be contaminated.
- And as has been said, the radiation level was low, but after several months in water flow in ravine it was washed way. This indicates that the original concentration had to be very high. But why just on the trousers???

February 26, 2019, 12:47:04 AM
Reply #28
Online

Nigel Evans


- And as has been said, the radiation level was low, but after several months in water flow in ravine it was washed way. This indicates that the original concentration had to be very high.
Or it was just always low....

February 26, 2019, 03:07:07 PM
Reply #29
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I suppose there is only one way that we will ever find out and that is if someone analyses tree ring samples and soil core samples for strontium 90.