October 16, 2019, 06:08:49 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Carbon 14 is a beta emitter and occurs naturally  (Read 3641 times)

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March 04, 2019, 02:12:33 PM
Reply #60
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Nigel Evans


I was thinking along the lines of some kind of ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE. There are many stories of Electrical Interference Interfering with Instruments on such vehicles as Airplanes and Ships, and Motor Cars, etc. And one area of the World in particular is known to be a source of strange events possibly caused by some kind of Electrical Interference, 'The Bermuda Triangle'. Also such Electrical Interference is said to have occurred many times when near to UFO sightings.
Excellent point, if a geiger counter is just registering voltage pulses across a sensor using a few hundred volts, then what if there was ambient electro magnetic energy at sufficient strength?

March 04, 2019, 03:30:06 PM
Reply #61
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Star man

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I was thinking along the lines of some kind of ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE. There are many stories of Electrical Interference Interfering with Instruments on such vehicles as Airplanes and Ships, and Motor Cars, etc. And one area of the World in particular is known to be a source of strange events possibly caused by some kind of Electrical Interference, 'The Bermuda Triangle'. Also such Electrical Interference is said to have occurred many times when near to UFO sightings.
Excellent point, if a geiger counter is just registering voltage pulses across a sensor using a few hundred volts, then what if there was ambient electro magnetic energy at sufficient strength?

It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation

March 04, 2019, 03:36:26 PM
Reply #62
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Star man

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Just a quickie on this Post. What if something else caused Ivanov's Geiger Counter to go crazy at the Tent Site  !  ?  I will put this question in the UFO section as well.

According to Ryan it would have to be a hard beta emitter which narrows down the "something elses" somewhat and pushes Carbon 14 off the list. But as Ryan says "go crazy" has little objective value.

Even if the Geiger counter did go a bit crazy it indicates radiation at the tent when there should be none above background.


As i've posted below, background is potentially highly variable. The tent could have been exposed to stream/river silt with high natural levels on their trip or previous ones. I don't think it's that simple.

Actually, it probably is that simple.  The conclusion of the tests in the investigation and from ryans's recent informed analysis is that the radiation levels were far from natural.

March 04, 2019, 04:15:44 PM
Reply #63
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sarapuk

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I was thinking along the lines of some kind of ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE. There are many stories of Electrical Interference Interfering with Instruments on such vehicles as Airplanes and Ships, and Motor Cars, etc. And one area of the World in particular is known to be a source of strange events possibly caused by some kind of Electrical Interference, 'The Bermuda Triangle'. Also such Electrical Interference is said to have occurred many times when near to UFO sightings.
Excellent point, if a geiger counter is just registering voltage pulses across a sensor using a few hundred volts, then what if there was ambient electro magnetic energy at sufficient strength?

It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation

Yes, but dont forget, thats exactly how Geiger Counters work. They work because of Electrical Interference i e the ELECTRONS in the GEIGER TUBE are interfering with the normal state of the Geiger Tube. Thats why I have said before that the type of TUBE is very important in our investigation. And its the Electrons that are responsible for the READOUT. Therefore its possible that an external Electrical source could cause false readouts or and the Instrument going CRAZY as per Lev Ivanov's statement.
DB

March 05, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
Reply #64
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Nigel Evans



Actually, it probably is that simple.  The conclusion of the tests in the investigation and from ryans's recent informed analysis is that the radiation levels were far from natural.
Or otherwise. That's my point. The radiation levels are probably unnatural but possibly just natural...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_radioactivity#Sea_and_river_silt
"In one kilogram of soil, the potassium-40 amounts to an average 370 Bq of radiation, with a typical range of 100–700 Bq; the others each contribute some 25 Bq, with typical ranges of 10–50 Bq (7–50 Bq for the 232Th).[1] Some soils may vary greatly from these norms.".

March 05, 2019, 01:29:39 AM
Reply #65
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Nigel Evans



It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation
Yes i know how a geiger counter works. The ball lightning theory asserts that the locality experiences very high electro magnetic energies and :-
  • We don't know what effect that could have on electronics operating on extremely modest amperages. We're talking about EMF that can make airplane instruments go haywire thousands of feet away.
  • A geiger counter counts ionisation cascades which in normal conditions can only be produced from ionising radiation but the BL theory asserts this locale is abnormal and demonstrates electrical phenomena that cannot be explained by our current science.

March 05, 2019, 08:41:53 AM
Reply #66
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation
Yes i know how a geiger counter works. The ball lightning theory asserts that the locality experiences very high electro magnetic energies and :-
  • We don't know what effect that could have on electronics operating on extremely modest amperages. We're talking about EMF that can make airplane instruments go haywire thousands of feet away.
  • A geiger counter counts ionisation cascades which in normal conditions can only be produced from ionising radiation but the BL theory asserts this locale is abnormal and demonstrates electrical phenomena that cannot be explained by our current science.

If the electromagnetic phenomenon was there during the investigation then it should have affected all types of electronic equipment especially things like radios but there were no other obvious issues.

March 05, 2019, 10:59:32 AM
Reply #67
Online

Nigel Evans



It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation
Yes i know how a geiger counter works. The ball lightning theory asserts that the locality experiences very high electro magnetic energies and :-
  • We don't know what effect that could have on electronics operating on extremely modest amperages. We're talking about EMF that can make airplane instruments go haywire thousands of feet away.
  • A geiger counter counts ionisation cascades which in normal conditions can only be produced from ionising radiation but the BL theory asserts this locale is abnormal and demonstrates electrical phenomena that cannot be explained by our current science.

If the electromagnetic phenomenon was there during the investigation then it should have affected all types of electronic equipment especially things like radios but there were no other obvious issues.
No i'd have to disagree, it would all depend, the radio was at the rescue camp 400m from the labaz and behind a hill relative to the tent. We don't how it would have worked at the tent. I think it's a reasonable point that the delicate electronics of a hand held geiger counter could possibly have been affected at the top of the mountain and not lower.

March 05, 2019, 11:15:03 AM
Reply #68
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

It's very unlikely that any readings on a geiger counter would be because of electrical interference.  These instruments measure ionisation of a gas in a tube.  Only something very energetic like radioactive particles or gamma rays are likely to cause that ionisation.  The instruments are designed to measure radiation.  So there are only two reasons why it would react:

1. There is ionising radiation present
2.  The instrument is faulty, but this would not be selective around the tent only.

Also, there is very real and definite radiation on the clothes samples, so if a Geiger counter also responded around the camp site why would you need to look for a different explanation other than radiation?  It doesn't make sense.  A more obvious question is where did the radiation come from and I think Ryan has offered another possible explanation
Yes i know how a geiger counter works. The ball lightning theory asserts that the locality experiences very high electro magnetic energies and :-
  • We don't know what effect that could have on electronics operating on extremely modest amperages. We're talking about EMF that can make airplane instruments go haywire thousands of feet away.
  • A geiger counter counts ionisation cascades which in normal conditions can only be produced from ionising radiation but the BL theory asserts this locale is abnormal and demonstrates electrical phenomena that cannot be explained by our current science.

If the electromagnetic phenomenon was there during the investigation then it should have affected all types of electronic equipment especially things like radios but there were no other obvious issues.

It doesnt have to be ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENON. I use the word ELECTRICAL. Any way we dont  know if any other Instruments or electrical equipment were affected. As you know the original Investigation left a lot to be desired.
DB

March 06, 2019, 01:07:05 AM
Reply #69
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Nigel Evans


Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

March 06, 2019, 08:21:50 AM
Reply #70
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Star man

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Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

But what was a trained radiologist doing there?  It is even more mysterious than no results were made available.

And don’t forget the contaminated clothes.

It doesn’t seem like something that should be ignored or written off as unimportant especially given what Ryan has said about the tests.

March 06, 2019, 01:21:15 PM
Reply #71
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sarapuk

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Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

Nice one.  I forgot about that. So much to remember and take in.  Vladimir Askinadzi seems a reliable witness. It kind of reinforces the belief that The Authorities were not trying to cover any thing up in the first place. Its only after the finding of the 4 bodies at the Ravine when things CHANGE QUICKLY. Why ! ? Because if the Authorities were trying to cover things up to begin with then they would not have asked Vladimir Askinadzi to recruit a Group of Students to look for the Dyatlov Group. The Authorities would simply have closed off the area much earlier, bringing in their own people. As for the READOUTS from any Geiger Counters / Dosimeters, lets remember that there was no DIGITAL equipment in those days. So we are talking ANALOGUE Instruments. So they would not have the luxury that we have today where such equipment automatically LOGS the Readings, which can later be downloaded to a Computer. So if all those Analogue Instruments were going crazy then there wouldnt be much to record. That may explain why there as never been any talk of such READOUTS.
DB

March 06, 2019, 01:24:30 PM
Reply #72
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

But what was a trained radiologist doing there?  It is even more mysterious than no results were made available.

And don’t forget the contaminated clothes.

It doesn’t seem like something that should be ignored or written off as unimportant especially given what Ryan has said about the tests.

Maybe because Ivanovs Geiger Counter was going crazy so they brought in the experts with other equipment.
DB

March 06, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
Reply #73
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

Nice one.  I forgot about that. So much to remember and take in.  Vladimir Askinadzi seems a reliable witness. It kind of reinforces the belief that The Authorities were not trying to cover any thing up in the first place. Its only after the finding of the 4 bodies at the Ravine when things CHANGE QUICKLY. Why ! ? Because if the Authorities were trying to cover things up to begin with then they would not have asked Vladimir Askinadzi to recruit a Group of Students to look for the Dyatlov Group. The Authorities would simply have closed off the area much earlier, bringing in their own people. As for the READOUTS from any Geiger Counters / Dosimeters, lets remember that there was no DIGITAL equipment in those days. So we are talking ANALOGUE Instruments. So they would not have the luxury that we have today where such equipment automatically LOGS the Readings, which can later be downloaded to a Computer. So if all those Analogue Instruments were going crazy then there wouldnt be much to record. That may explain why there as never been any talk of such READOUTS.

So we know radiation checks were carried out earlier on but with no results included in the files.  Ivanov describes the Geiger counter going crazy near the tent.  So it’s important information!  Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!

Combining the above information with the findings of widespread contamination of the clothes makes it even more compelling.

Yes instrument may have not been as good as modern equipment but ivanov would not have said it went crazy around the tent unless there was something significant.

March 07, 2019, 02:40:06 AM
Reply #74
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Nigel Evans


Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!
Not so! (imo).  kewl1
Ivanov mentions the radiation in his interview but it's dominated by fire orbs and the radiation does have explanations - occupational and natural. Although the authorities investigated radiation levels they don't seem to have subjected the rescuers to radiation checks which surely would have been performed if dangerous levels were found. It's a great pity they didn't identify the isotope. If potassium then the whole discussion is null and void. If say strontium then the water test is very relevant and the original levels were much higher. But even then occupational is an explanation.


March 07, 2019, 08:48:57 AM
Reply #75
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Star man

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Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!
Not so! (imo).  kewl1
Ivanov mentions the radiation in his interview but it's dominated by fire orbs and the radiation does have explanations - occupational and natural. Although the authorities investigated radiation levels they don't seem to have subjected the rescuers to radiation checks which surely would have been performed if dangerous levels were found. It's a great pity they didn't identify the isotope. If potassium then the whole discussion is null and void. If say strontium then the water test is very relevant and the original levels were much higher. But even then occupational is an explanation.

Unlikely to be occasional if you look at Ryan’s posts.

March 07, 2019, 09:02:51 AM
Reply #76
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Nigel Evans


Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!
Not so! (imo).  kewl1
Ivanov mentions the radiation in his interview but it's dominated by fire orbs and the radiation does have explanations - occupational and natural. Although the authorities investigated radiation levels they don't seem to have subjected the rescuers to radiation checks which surely would have been performed if dangerous levels were found. It's a great pity they didn't identify the isotope. If potassium then the whole discussion is null and void. If say strontium then the water test is very relevant and the original levels were much higher. But even then occupational is an explanation.

Unlikely to be occasional if you look at Ryan’s posts.

Ivanov then starts to expand on his UFO theory beginning with the radiation aspect;

Only the sky was left, with all its contents and an unfathomable energy that had turned out to be beyond human strength. With the assistance of scientists from the Urals Branch of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR I undertook extensive tests of clothes and some organs of the deceased for presence of “radiation”.

With red lights and warning signals all around this case, Ivanov would not have undertaken radiation tests on his own initiative as he implies here. The truth is that he was instructed to do so, as we will see. After the discussion of the tests for radioactivity, Ivanov makes the following statement which firmly takes the subject away from the military and into the realm of UFOs;
I discarded the version of nuclear weapon tests in that area. It was then that I came to deal directly with Fire Orbs.

He describes various witness sightings of orbs/ lights in the skies in the northern Urals, along with his interviews of the witnesses. Significantly he mentions the sighting of one of the orbs on the night the Dyatlov group died (1/ 2 February 1959) by the students of the Geography faculty of the Pedagogical Institute in Sverdlovsk and mentions witness Georgy Atamanaki seeing the orb. Atamanaki was to take part in the search.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 01:04:12 PM by Teddy »

March 07, 2019, 12:46:09 PM
Reply #77
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just seen this from the Askinadzi interview http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
"Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results."


So it's official. Measurements were taken by trained personnel but the only knowledge we have of them is that Ivanov made a comment about a geiger counter going crazy at the tent.

Nice one.  I forgot about that. So much to remember and take in.  Vladimir Askinadzi seems a reliable witness. It kind of reinforces the belief that The Authorities were not trying to cover any thing up in the first place. Its only after the finding of the 4 bodies at the Ravine when things CHANGE QUICKLY. Why ! ? Because if the Authorities were trying to cover things up to begin with then they would not have asked Vladimir Askinadzi to recruit a Group of Students to look for the Dyatlov Group. The Authorities would simply have closed off the area much earlier, bringing in their own people. As for the READOUTS from any Geiger Counters / Dosimeters, lets remember that there was no DIGITAL equipment in those days. So we are talking ANALOGUE Instruments. So they would not have the luxury that we have today where such equipment automatically LOGS the Readings, which can later be downloaded to a Computer. So if all those Analogue Instruments were going crazy then there wouldnt be much to record. That may explain why there as never been any talk of such READOUTS.

So we know radiation checks were carried out earlier on but with no results included in the files.  Ivanov describes the Geiger counter going crazy near the tent.  So it’s important information!  Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!

Combining the above information with the findings of widespread contamination of the clothes makes it even more compelling.

Yes instrument may have not been as good as modern equipment but ivanov would not have said it went crazy around the tent unless there was something significant.


Yes and that significant something could have been because the Geiger Counter went off the scale, literally. Meaning it wasnt possible to take READOUTS. And that may have been the case with the other Instruments brought in to the Investigation in the field. And that may help to explain the sudden ending of the Case ! ?
DB

March 07, 2019, 12:49:24 PM
Reply #78
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!
Not so! (imo).  kewl1
Ivanov mentions the radiation in his interview but it's dominated by fire orbs and the radiation does have explanations - occupational and natural. Although the authorities investigated radiation levels they don't seem to have subjected the rescuers to radiation checks which surely would have been performed if dangerous levels were found. It's a great pity they didn't identify the isotope. If potassium then the whole discussion is null and void. If say strontium then the water test is very relevant and the original levels were much higher. But even then occupational is an explanation.

Well I hardly think natural or occupational Radiation would cause the Geiger Counters to go CRAZY. If it was indeed as a result of Radiation. It may still have been some other ELECTRICAL phenomenon.
DB

March 07, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Reply #79
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just as important as what he said about fire orbs!
Not so! (imo).  kewl1
Ivanov mentions the radiation in his interview but it's dominated by fire orbs and the radiation does have explanations - occupational and natural. Although the authorities investigated radiation levels they don't seem to have subjected the rescuers to radiation checks which surely would have been performed if dangerous levels were found. It's a great pity they didn't identify the isotope. If potassium then the whole discussion is null and void. If say strontium then the water test is very relevant and the original levels were much higher. But even then occupational is an explanation.

Unlikely to be occasional if you look at Ryan’s posts.

Ivanov then starts to expand on his UFO theory beginning with the radiation aspect;

Only the sky was left, with all its contents and an unfathomable energy that had turned out to be beyond human strength. With the assistance of scientists from the Urals Branch of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR I undertook extensive tests of clothes and some organs of the deceased for presence of “radiation”.

With red lights and warning signals all around this case, Ivanov would not have undertaken radiation tests on his own initiative as he implies here. The truth is that he was instructed to do so, as we will see. After the discussion of the tests for radioactivity, Ivanov makes the following statement which firmly takes the subject away from the military and into the realm of UFOs;
I discarded the version of nuclear weapon tests in that area. It was then that I came to deal directly with Fire Orbs.

He describes various witness sightings of orbs/ lights in the skies in the northern Urals, along with his interviews of the witnesses. Significantly he mentions the sighting of one of the orbs on the night the Dyatlov group died (1/ 2 February 1959) by the students of the Geography faculty of the Pedagogical Institute in Sverdlovsk and mentions witness Georgy Atamanaki seeing the orb. Atamanaki was to take part in the search.


Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 01:03:55 PM by Teddy »

March 07, 2019, 02:42:59 PM
Reply #80
Online

Nigel Evans



Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

March 07, 2019, 03:42:53 PM
Reply #81
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Star man

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Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

I don't know.  Why cover up after all this time.  It's a good question.

March 07, 2019, 05:00:25 PM
Reply #82
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

I don't know.  Why cover up after all this time.  It's a good question.

Then we are back to the question ; What is he covering up  !  ?  What is it if it wasnt a Military accident of some kind that would need covering up  !  ? I dont think there is really enough to even suggest a Military cover up so, it must have been something else that was so UNUSUAL and DANGEROUS that the Investigation was brought to a sudden end and the area was SEALED OFF for several years.
DB

March 08, 2019, 01:08:00 AM
Reply #83
Online

Nigel Evans



Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

I don't know.  Why cover up after all this time.  It's a good question.

Then we are back to the question ; What is he covering up  !  ?  What is it if it wasnt a Military accident of some kind that would need covering up  !  ? I dont think there is really enough to even suggest a Military cover up so, it must have been something else that was so UNUSUAL and DANGEROUS that the Investigation was brought to a sudden end and the area was SEALED OFF for several years.


No, we're back to the question - "is he covering up or is he genuine about fire orbs?".


I vote for genuine.

March 08, 2019, 04:14:29 AM
Reply #84
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

I don't know.  Why cover up after all this time.  It's a good question.

Then we are back to the question ; What is he covering up  !  ?  What is it if it wasnt a Military accident of some kind that would need covering up  !  ? I dont think there is really enough to even suggest a Military cover up so, it must have been something else that was so UNUSUAL and DANGEROUS that the Investigation was brought to a sudden end and the area was SEALED OFF for several years.


No, we're back to the question - "is he covering up or is he genuine about fire orbs?".


I vote for genuine.

I think he was still covering up.  He did not want to damage his own reputation and admit he was lying?

March 08, 2019, 05:48:54 AM
Reply #85
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Loose}{Cannon

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All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

March 08, 2019, 06:35:04 AM
Reply #86
Online

Nigel Evans



Do you wonder whether the UFO implication by Ivanov is just a diversion to throw people off the truth?  It's kind of a classic technique that was use by the USA a lot when testing new hardware that they didn't want to become public knowledge.  When the authorities or people strongly linked to the authorities start talking about UFOs it usually means diversion?
Understood but he made this interview in 1990, 31 years later, after perestroika had eased things. He apologises for the coverup but makes it clear that he had no choice - "Beria was gone but his methods remained". So why cover up 31 years later?

I don't know.  Why cover up after all this time.  It's a good question.

Then we are back to the question ; What is he covering up  !  ?  What is it if it wasnt a Military accident of some kind that would need covering up  !  ? I dont think there is really enough to even suggest a Military cover up so, it must have been something else that was so UNUSUAL and DANGEROUS that the Investigation was brought to a sudden end and the area was SEALED OFF for several years.


No, we're back to the question - "is he covering up or is he genuine about fire orbs?".


I vote for genuine.

I think he was still covering up.  He did not want to damage his own reputation and admit he was lying?


He stated that he had been ordered to lie?

March 08, 2019, 06:44:26 AM
Reply #87
Online

Nigel Evans


Or, he is simply incompetent.


Or he was competent but the evidence of this has been confiscated....


All we have is his interview and a huge pile of ambiguities. He had all the evidence.

March 08, 2019, 08:49:16 AM
Reply #88
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

March 08, 2019, 12:09:19 PM
Reply #89
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
LEV IVANOV. Competent or incompetent. Genuine or false. Cover up or no cover up. And this is just Lev Ivanov's part in this MYSTERY. Like I have said, he needs his own section in this Forum.
DB