November 17, 2019, 05:31:36 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Ivanov Later Believed In Ball Lightning  (Read 2080 times)

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November 08, 2018, 01:15:31 AM
Reply #30
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Nigel Evans


Loose Cannon - 5 posts in row of complete nonsense.
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November 08, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
Reply #31
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Back to the BALL LIGHTNING, shall we just say that no one really knows exactly what it is and whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.  Because there are seemingly too many theories on BALL LIGHTNING and it would have to be any ones guess as to if any of those theories was the correct one. If the correct theory was found then it may be possible to apply that correct theory to the Dyatlov Mystery.  Guess its up to the Scientists to get cracking  !  ?
DB

November 09, 2018, 07:04:41 AM
Reply #32
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Nigel Evans


shall we just say that no one really knows whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.

No we can't ignore what Ivanov said. He was very clear that he believed it was fire orbs, possibly piloted, firing heat rays and he also said that the real evidence was covered up by an order from upon high (which you didn't disobey in the Soviet Union in 1959 -  "Beria was gone but his methods remained"). His superior independently confirmed the coverup. Remember who Ivanov was, a well regarded detective and lawyer who after his state career continued to practise as a barrister. Unless you discount all of that as "noise from idiots" then you have to accept that it's either :-
1. Military testing.
2. Ball lightning.
3. Aliens.
4, Angels and/or demons.

Imo 1 + 2 are plausible, 3 + 4 somewhat less so. The problem with 1 is that the authorities don't seem to have reacted with a coverup for about 3 months afterwards until the ravine 4 were found (and semyon's camera was processed?) and the 30 strong investigation team on site found no evidence at all in between or even evidence that anyone else had been there (this is proven by omission from Ivanov's interview).

Unless you think Ivanov was mad or at least highly delusional you have to explain the fire orbs. I choose ball lightning or more correctly naturally occurring electro magnetic phenomena that although rare is well documented and has attracted theories from highly regarded physicists.

November 09, 2018, 08:29:42 AM
Reply #33
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Getting to qoute myself....   priceless.


Quote
Ball Lightning is an atmospheric phenomenon seemingly with no explanation as to it's creation or existence.  A simple Google search will reveal there is no single explanation as to what its comprised of, how it forms, why it forms, or any other scientific proof as to whats going on inside of 'ball lightning'.  Modern science simply does not know what ball lightning is.

With that being said, here is the basic rundown of how this phenomenon is said to be the cause of death for the Dyatlov group in 1959.

#1.  Semyon Zolotaryov of 37 years old was attached to the group of students and recently graduated youngsters in the final moments before setting off on their trip. Given his military background, he is said to possibly be a KGB agent.  Not just any agent, but one that must embed himself into the group of boys/girls to do the impossible for the Kremlin... Go into the Ural mountains in disguise with a top-secret camera that nobody else must know about, and bring back pictures of Ball Lightning to study and possibly weaponize.  The Russian government has to do this covertly because (insert reason here).

#2. Upon securing himself on the trip Semyon managed to convince the group leader Igor Dyatlov to take a detour. To venture off the planned route submitted to the University for verification of level III status for a top secret Ball Lightning photoshoot.  Igor must be KGB also because he had to be in on it, or at least informed at some point.  Why else would he agree? 

#3.  It was decided the best vantage point to photograph BL would be on the ridge of a mountain, in the middle of the night, and in whiteout conditions with negative temperatures.  So the group followed SZs lead and dug in for a comfortable evening in the worst possible conditions imaginable. 

#4.  At some point during the night as if right on que and in the exact location among thousands of baron square kilometers, The BL showed up!  Not only did it show up, but it parked itself right next to the tent! 

#5.  This event sent the group into a mad frenzy slashing their way out of the tent in what must have been a horrific panic. After extracting themselves out of the tent and destroying it forever, the group calmly walked down the slope to get away from what was so terrifying.

#6. Once they made it to safety a full mile away at the treeline, they settled next to a tall cedar tree and started a fire.  The cedar tree was the ideal location for BL observation and its height offered a perfect view of the tent location in whiteout conditions as the BL hovered by the tent a mile away.

#7.  While watching the BL from the height of this cedar, the group would know two things.  When it was safe to risk their lives and go a mile back uphill to a destroyed tent when the BL has departed, and to watch their comrades progress in dying in an attempt to do so as Igor, Zina, and Rustem did not survive the trip. Its important to note, an attempt of returning to the tent was now possible because the BL had at some point left the vicinity of the tent as clearly seen in whiteout conditions from the top of the cedar.

#8.  To add insult to injury, the BL returns only to swoop down the side of the mountain and explode close to the cedar which tossed Yuri and Yuri out of it giving them burns and aortas three times the normal size for their age.  The BL has been selective in its pinpoint destruction as no signs of an explosion or burning (except Yuris leg) were recorded by anyone during the investigation. 

#9.  Leaving the remaining 4 members of the group alive and unharmed, they decide to salvage clothing and go further into the woods to build an improvised shelter (den) by digging several cubic yards of hard pack snow by bare hand into the side of a ravine snow bank.

#10.  Some time later, the remaining 4 sitting comfortably in their den, butts in all four corners sitting on clothing articles that would later be found above and behind where the den and bodies were found, were viciously attacked once again by the BL.  This time it selectively targeted them in the ravine and exploded causing their den to collapse crushing them. One injury in particular (smashed in skull) was made by snow falling... Not by being slammed against the boulder filled ravine/creek floor.   Once again BL leaving no other physical evidence as to its presence. 

Special notes:  Even though nobody knows exactly what BL is or what its comprised of, it is said to spicifically target your hands, and face in a fashion in which may appear to be hand/hand combat wounds. It can even make it look as if your side was whacked with a 'baton' and your ankles were tied up. All the bleeding of the noses and mouths are an obvious sign of ship rats feeding on frozen tissue.   Blunt force trauma is what BL does

Piloted.....
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:35:04 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 09, 2018, 09:52:45 AM
Reply #34
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Nigel Evans


Ball Lightning is an atmospheric phenomenon seemingly with no explanation as to it's creation or existence. Not so, the problem isn't a lack of explanations but no proofs.


A simple Google search will reveal there is no single explanation as to what its comprised of, how it forms, why it forms, or any other scientific proof as to whats going on inside of 'ball lightning'.  Modern science simply does not know what ball lightning is. But a lot of theories are based on microwaves producing plasmas, possibly spinning at relativistic speeds.

With that being said, here is the basic rundown of how this phenomenon is said to be the cause of death for the Dyatlov group in 1959.

#1.  Semyon Zolotaryov of 37 years old was attached to the group of students and recently graduated youngsters in the final moments before setting off on their trip. Given his military background, he is said to possibly be a KGB agent.  Not just any agent, but one that must embed himself into the group of boys/girls to do the impossible for the Kremlin... Go into the Ural mountains in disguise with a top-secret camera that nobody else must know about, and bring back pictures of Ball Lightning to study and possibly weaponize.  The Russian government has to do this covertly because (insert reason herethere's a Cold War going on).

#2. Upon securing himself on the trip Semyon managed to convince the group leader Igor Dyatlov to take a detour. To venture off the planned route submitted to the University for verification of level III status for a top secret Ball Lightning photoshoot.  Igor must be KGB also because he had to be in on it, or at least informed at some point.  Why else would he agreeIt doesn't follow that he had to be KGB, he was keen as mustard to qualify as a master alpinist, he just has to be given a hint that SZ has some authority. Anyway they wouldn't detour without discussing it with the rest imo.

#3.  It was decided the best vantage point to photograph BL would be on the ridge of a mountain, in the middle of the night, and in whiteout conditions with negative temperatures. the whiteout would be diminished at the top of the hill, worse lower down So the group followed SZs lead and dug in for a comfortable evening in the worst possible conditions imaginable.  It's only what they were going to do later on Mt Ortorten

#4.  At some point during the night as if right on que and in the exact location among thousands of baron square kilometers, Maybe they had seen some lights on approaching the pass in previous evenings Igor's last diary entry can be interpreted as reconsidering this plan.The BL showed up!  Not only did it show up, but it parked itself right next to the tent! No my favourite theory is rollers (fair to say they got more than they bargained for)

#5.  This event sent the group into a mad frenzy slashing their way out of the tent in what must have been a horrific panic. After extracting themselves out of the tent and destroying it forever, the group calmly walked down the slope to get away from what was so terrifying. if a roller broke the ski pole they would have felt the same force as a strong punch?... I'd get out pretty damn quick. The mysterious photos make sense as trying to catch rollers moving quickly down the mountain

#6. Once they made it to safety a full mile away at the treeline, they settled next to a tall cedar tree and started a fire.  The cedar tree was the ideal location for BL observation and its height offered a perfect view of the tent location in whiteout conditions as the BL hovered by the tent a mile away. The cedar branches offered the best firewood. Yuri D was probably in a bad way by then. You don't know what the snow conditions were at that point.

#7.  While watching the BL from the height of this cedar, the group would know two things.  When it was safe to risk their lives and go a mile back uphill to a destroyed tent when the BL has departed, and to watch their comrades progress in dying in an attempt to do so as Igor, Zina, and Rustem did not survive the trip. Its important to note, an attempt of returning to the tent was now possible because the BL had at some point left the vicinity of the tent as clearly seen in whiteout conditions from the top of the cedar. just speculation

#8.  To add insult to injury, the BL returns only to swoop down the side of the mountain and explode close to the cedar which tossed Yuri and Yuri out of it giving them burns and aortas three times the normal size for their age. the aortas probably due to NO2 poisoning which seems to have affected YuriD the worst The BL has been selective in its pinpoint destruction as no signs of an explosion or burning (except Yuris leg) were recorded by anyone during the investigation.  Not so, Ivanov talked of branches showing burn marks, presumably leading him to talk about "directed heat rays"

#9.  Leaving the remaining 4 members of the group alive and unharmed, they decide to salvage clothing and go further into the woods to build an improvised shelter (den) by digging several cubic yards of hard pack snow by bare hand into the side of a ravine snow bank. My timeline is different, first the 2 Yuris then the ravine 4 then the others.

#10.  Some time later, the remaining 4 sitting comfortably in their den, butts in all four corners sitting on clothing articles that would later be found above and behind where the den and bodies were found, were viciously attacked once again by the BL.  This time it selectively targeted them in the ravine there could have been a lot of them.and exploded causing their den to collapse crushing them. One injury in particular (smashed in skull) was made by snow falling... Not by being slammed against the boulder filled ravine/creek floor.   Once again BL leaving no other physical evidence as to its presence. I think i'd favour mechanical force (like impact from an automobile over an explosion but both possible. If it left any other presence it could have been found by a summer search that sadly didn't take place.

Special notes:  Even though nobody knows exactly what BL is or what its comprised of, it is said to spicifically target your hands, and face in a fashion in which may appear to be hand/hand combat wounds. It can even make it look as if your side was whacked with a 'baton' and your ankles were tied up. All the bleeding of the noses and mouths are an obvious sign of ship rats feeding on frozen tissue.   Blunt force trauma is what BL does[/quote]baton bruise and ankles can easily be explained by hauling the sled and bad ski boots in tough conditions, most of these "combat injuries" were described as "abrasions" by the pathologist. In my theory the remaining to survive dig out the ravine 4 with their bare hands and quickly else they would suffocate, no time to protect your hands. Nitric acid on the face might explain Zina's face


« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 10:00:05 AM by Nigel Evans »

November 09, 2018, 11:09:44 AM
Reply #35
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
shall we just say that no one really knows whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.

No we can't ignore what Ivanov said. He was very clear that he believed it was fire orbs, possibly piloted, firing heat rays and he also said that the real evidence was covered up by an order from upon high (which you didn't disobey in the Soviet Union in 1959 -  "Beria was gone but his methods remained"). His superior independently confirmed the coverup. Remember who Ivanov was, a well regarded detective and lawyer who after his state career continued to practise as a barrister. Unless you discount all of that as "noise from idiots" then you have to accept that it's either :-
1. Military testing.
2. Ball lightning.
3. Aliens.
4, Angels and/or demons.

Imo 1 + 2 are plausible, 3 + 4 somewhat less so. The problem with 1 is that the authorities don't seem to have reacted with a coverup for about 3 months afterwards until the ravine 4 were found (and semyon's camera was processed?) and the 30 strong investigation team on site found no evidence at all in between or even evidence that anyone else had been there (this is proven by omission from Ivanov's interview).

Unless you think Ivanov was mad or at least highly delusional you have to explain the fire orbs. I choose ball lightning or more correctly naturally occurring electro magnetic phenomena that although rare is well documented and has attracted theories from highly regarded physicists.


Thats true, we can not ignore what Ivanov said, but we still havnt got enough to go on to prove that the ball lightning or orbs had anything to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group. It might be a coincidence that the phenomena happened at the same time as the tragedy  !  ?  However, Ivanov does need to be taken seriously, even if some think he wasnt serious.  So, ORB's = UFO's.
DB

November 10, 2018, 04:02:18 AM
Reply #36
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Nigel Evans


Thats true, we can not ignore what Ivanov said, but we still havnt got enough to go on to prove that the ball lightning or orbs had anything to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group.
We only have Ivanov's interview and his conviction that they were involved. If proof exists it's hidden in an archive somewhere.

February 16, 2019, 01:37:34 PM
Reply #37
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
shall we just say that no one really knows whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.

No we can't ignore what Ivanov said. He was very clear that he believed it was fire orbs, possibly piloted, firing heat rays and he also said that the real evidence was covered up by an order from upon high (which you didn't disobey in the Soviet Union in 1959 -  "Beria was gone but his methods remained"). His superior independently confirmed the coverup. Remember who Ivanov was, a well regarded detective and lawyer who after his state career continued to practise as a barrister. Unless you discount all of that as "noise from idiots" then you have to accept that it's either :-
1. Military testing.
2. Ball lightning.
3. Aliens.
4, Angels and/or demons.

Imo 1 + 2 are plausible, 3 + 4 somewhat less so. The problem with 1 is that the authorities don't seem to have reacted with a coverup for about 3 months afterwards until the ravine 4 were found (and semyon's camera was processed?) and the 30 strong investigation team on site found no evidence at all in between or even evidence that anyone else had been there (this is proven by omission from Ivanov's interview).

Unless you think Ivanov was mad or at least highly delusional you have to explain the fire orbs. I choose ball lightning or more correctly naturally occurring electro magnetic phenomena that although rare is well documented and has attracted theories from highly regarded physicists.

This is one of your more interesting Posts. You have touched upon something regarding PLAUSIBILITY that needs to be a reminder to everyone occasionally. There could not have been a cover up early on because as you suggest the Authorities did not react or act until the finding of the bodies at the Ravine.  The bodies with the most MYSTERIOUS INJURIES. After those bodies were found then it is possible there may have been a cover up. And if so what were the Authorities covering up  !  ?  I think it was something more than just lights in the sky, and also maybe IVANOV was on the right track  !  ?
DB

February 16, 2019, 02:48:46 PM
Reply #38
Offline

Nigel Evans


shall we just say that no one really knows whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.

No we can't ignore what Ivanov said. He was very clear that he believed it was fire orbs, possibly piloted, firing heat rays and he also said that the real evidence was covered up by an order from upon high (which you didn't disobey in the Soviet Union in 1959 -  "Beria was gone but his methods remained"). His superior independently confirmed the coverup. Remember who Ivanov was, a well regarded detective and lawyer who after his state career continued to practise as a barrister. Unless you discount all of that as "noise from idiots" then you have to accept that it's either :-
1. Military testing.
2. Ball lightning.
3. Aliens.
4, Angels and/or demons.

Imo 1 + 2 are plausible, 3 + 4 somewhat less so. The problem with 1 is that the authorities don't seem to have reacted with a coverup for about 3 months afterwards until the ravine 4 were found (and semyon's camera was processed?) and the 30 strong investigation team on site found no evidence at all in between or even evidence that anyone else had been there (this is proven by omission from Ivanov's interview).

Unless you think Ivanov was mad or at least highly delusional you have to explain the fire orbs. I choose ball lightning or more correctly naturally occurring electro magnetic phenomena that although rare is well documented and has attracted theories from highly regarded physicists.
This is one of your more interesting Posts. You have touched upon something regarding PLAUSIBILITY that needs to be a reminder to everyone occasionally. There could not have been a cover up early on because as you suggest the Authorities did not react or act until the finding of the bodies at the Ravine.  The bodies with the most MYSTERIOUS INJURIES. After those bodies were found then it is possible there may have been a cover up. And if so what were the Authorities covering up  !  ?  I think it was something more than just lights in the sky, and also maybe IVANOV was on the right track  !  ?

Ah but i've subsequently read that Ivanov was summoned to Moscow in mid March. So if true state involvement is more plausible.

February 17, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
Reply #39
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
shall we just say that no one really knows whether or not it played any part in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.

No we can't ignore what Ivanov said. He was very clear that he believed it was fire orbs, possibly piloted, firing heat rays and he also said that the real evidence was covered up by an order from upon high (which you didn't disobey in the Soviet Union in 1959 -  "Beria was gone but his methods remained"). His superior independently confirmed the coverup. Remember who Ivanov was, a well regarded detective and lawyer who after his state career continued to practise as a barrister. Unless you discount all of that as "noise from idiots" then you have to accept that it's either :-
1. Military testing.
2. Ball lightning.
3. Aliens.
4, Angels and/or demons.

Imo 1 + 2 are plausible, 3 + 4 somewhat less so. The problem with 1 is that the authorities don't seem to have reacted with a coverup for about 3 months afterwards until the ravine 4 were found (and semyon's camera was processed?) and the 30 strong investigation team on site found no evidence at all in between or even evidence that anyone else had been there (this is proven by omission from Ivanov's interview).

Unless you think Ivanov was mad or at least highly delusional you have to explain the fire orbs. I choose ball lightning or more correctly naturally occurring electro magnetic phenomena that although rare is well documented and has attracted theories from highly regarded physicists.
This is one of your more interesting Posts. You have touched upon something regarding PLAUSIBILITY that needs to be a reminder to everyone occasionally. There could not have been a cover up early on because as you suggest the Authorities did not react or act until the finding of the bodies at the Ravine.  The bodies with the most MYSTERIOUS INJURIES. After those bodies were found then it is possible there may have been a cover up. And if so what were the Authorities covering up  !  ?  I think it was something more than just lights in the sky, and also maybe IVANOV was on the right track  !  ?

Ah but i've subsequently read that Ivanov was summoned to Moscow in mid March. So if true state involvement is more plausible.

Well Ivanov was an important person regarding the search and rescue and investigation, so maybe the Authorities just wanted to be kept abreast of any developments.
DB

July 07, 2019, 09:25:40 AM
Reply #40
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kikoorion



good to all, I would like to ask if someone could pass me or tell me where to locate the interview they did to Lev Ivanov, from November 22 to 24, 1990 about his theory called "the enigma of the fireballs", thank you very much and magnifies web for a disturbing amateur in this case, a greeting

July 07, 2019, 10:09:38 AM
Reply #41
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Nigel Evans



good to all, I would like to ask if someone could pass me or tell me where to locate the interview they did to Lev Ivanov, from November 22 to 24, 1990 about his theory called "the enigma of the fireballs", thank you very much and magnifies web for a disturbing amateur in this case, a greeting
http://www.keithmccloskey.com/journey-to-dyatlov-pass/
The interview is translated in full into English in Chapter 10 as is Okishev's interview in Chapter 11.
It's a good book.

July 08, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Reply #42
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kikoorion


thank you very much Nigel Evans, I am very grateful, greetings