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Author Topic: Askinadzi: The rocket version was a diversion created by the authorities  (Read 1820 times)

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August 22, 2018, 05:09:07 AM
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Teddy

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Natalya Varsegova and Vladimir Askindazi

This is the opinion of the participant in the searches of Dyatlov group Vladimir Askinadzi, who shared his memoirs with journalists Nikolay Varsegov and Natalya Varsegova.

Nowadays Vladimir Askinadzi lives in the city of Sevastopol. In 1959 he was fifth year student of UPI and an experienced trekker. He took part in the North Urals search of the missing tourists. That is what Vladimir Mihaylovich remembers about the events.

–  In the middle of April, they call me to the Party Committee of the UPI and instruct me to recruit a group of students to look for Dyatlov group. We had to change Blinov's group, which had been searching for a long time at the pass, but found no one. I hardly managed to pick up five students, because no one wanted to go - we had exams. I suggested that the authorities wait with the search till the snow melts. But they didn’t want to hear about it. We were promised an academic absence from the exams and keeping our scholarships in the event of our delay at the pass. And just before my departure, I was again summoned to the party committee and told bluntly: make sure the tourists didn’t abscond to America through the North Pole. And if you find any details that speak of them leaving to America, then do not talk to anyone about it. When I told the guys about the escape to America, they laughed for a long time. Nansen has been preparing for years to conquer the North Pole, and our supposedly on a whim decided to make it through the entire Arctic Ocean. In addition, without skis! After all, all their skis were found around the tent.

I'm sorry, Vladimir Mihaylovich, but did the wise men in the institute party committee thought like that, who could imagine such a foolishness?

– Exactly. It was only six years after Stalin's death. The country was still living in fear. The party was recruited in the party committees plain men who did not know how to think at all, but could obey and strictly follow instructions. And they are not saints strictly speaking. In addition, I am convinced that this marvel was not a product of our Party Committee, but the idea of ​​Dyatlov group making a run for America was a product of a higher party leadership.

Vladimir Mihaylovich, you personally found Lyudmila Dubininа. Tell us how it happened. We have difficulty imagining technically how using a probe you can differentiate that under the thick snow, there is not earth, but a body. After all, the bodies were frozen and hardened.

– We had professional emergency avalanche probes designed to search for bodies. There is a hook at the end. It is necessary to poke, turn and pull it back. Mostly we pulled moss with the hook. And then I took out the probe and saw a piece of meat on the hook .... We immediately began to dig in that place. This was how Lyuda Dubinina was found. She was kneeling in a creek. They began to dig more, and a half-meter from Lyuda appeared someone's head. Lyuda was in the way, and we dragged her aside. Put the face on the snow, covered with some rags. Dug a little more, and found the rest.



This is a photo of Vladimir Askinadzi made during his search in early May 1959. He is in the foreground, on his back is dangling a grouse that was shot an hour ago.

THE NOTEBOOK

When you dug them out, supposedly Semen Zolotaryov had a notebook in one hand, and in another pencil?

– Yes, the memory of the episode with a notebook made a big impression on me. Because Colonel Ortyukov, who directed the searches, somehow behaved inadequately. He jumped like a madman when he saw that there was a notebook in the hands of one of the bodies. We couldn’t say who that was. We didn’t know the guys, and they were practically unrecognizable. So, Ortyukov grabbed the notebook and began to turn the pages, and I stood beside him. She flipped back and forth, but it is empty. And Ortyukov cursed in his heart, I do not remember words exactly, but he said, approximately, something like: "Ah, slug, couldn’t write anything ...".

The book was submerged in the water. Maybe it blurred the records?

– May be.

And where is this notebook now?

– I don’t know. But there is a photo of Ortyukov holding this notebook in his right hand.


Colonel Ortyukov holding in his right hand the notebook allegedly found on Zolotaryov

So you found the bodies, what happened next?

– Next came the question: who will pull the bodies out? We drew straws, the soldiers got to do it. We watched them working. Radio operator Nevolin sent a telegram right away, and the next morning the leadership from Sverdlovsk flew in.

Was regional prosecutor Klinov among them?

– There were a lot of people. And who is who - they did not introduce themselves. I only knew one person: investigator Ivanov. He behaved surprisingly detached. He didn’t even make enough photos of the crime scene. If I was an investigator, I would be all over the place, documenting everything. And he was indifferent, hands in his pockets. Apparently, everything was clear to him and that's why everything is already indifferent. In my opinion, he did not even approach the bodies. By the way, on the same day Ivanov flew away. We talked with him before the left, and he told me - I promise you as a reward photos from Dyatlov's films. But he didn’t give me anything.

What did you talk about?

– I told him how the searches were going. How we first found the den, and only after that the bodies. By the way, Mansi Kurikovs lead us to the den. I see them talking in their own language and point to small broken spruce twigs, no larger than the little finger, which were sticking from under the snow. These branches, as it were, indicated the path from the chopped fir-trees to the ravine. It turned out that the tourists cut off the branches and dragged them into the ravine, losing some debris of the branches along the way. Where the path ended, there we started digging. The snow was wet, caked. We cut down blocks and took them out. That’s how we found the den. With trembling hands - thinking that we will now find the guys - we scooped up the snow. When we saw an empty den, it became very painful. Where are they? And they were close to the den, literally at arms length. Although for some reason it is publicized that they were a few meters away. This is not true. I remember well that the bodies lay nearby.

Vladimir Mihaylovich, is it possible to have happened the following way. The guys dug a hole, laid the clothes on the bottom. And then they decided to dig a cave from the pit wall. In the cave would be warmer. They did not know that a stream was flowing under them. When they started digging they fell into the creek, and the snow fell on top of them. Hence the fractures of the ribs, and the head could be broken by a stone underneath...


If we assume that hikers trampled the den in the ravine under such a cornice, and then start digging a cave, they could be suppressed by snow falling down. Hence, fractures of the ribs, and trauma to the skull

– I do not think they could have dug a hole and a cave with their bare hands. They may have trampled a small pit for the den, and after that it snowed on top. The depth is about right. And why did they make a fire by the cedar? The head of Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle is broken, most likely, with a butt stroke. The size and shape of the wound is very indicative.

MYSTERIOUS TRACKS

There is an opinion that strong winds prevented the hikers from making a sufficiently big fire and maintain it long enough to keep them warm and that’s why they died. That they froze because of the wind. But when we were on the pass both in summer and in winter, we couldn’t but notice that on the slope of Kholat Syakhl, where the tent was, the wind blew  monstrously strong. And when you go down to the cedar, there's a complete calm, the light of a lighter will not flicker. When you were under the cedar, did you notice the winds?

– I remember the same thing. On the slope there were very strong winds, and under the cedar it was calm.

How, in your opinion, did the tragedy happen?

– I like the version with a poisonous cloud, which covered them, if you do not consider the causes of injuries. They began to choke, Dyatlov ordered everyone to cut the tent and run. But it is unclear how did the injuries happen. I think they were killed. But who and why - I don’t know. The whole epic from leaving the tent to their demise, it's as if encompass several unrelated events. Now I believe that there are criminals involved. I have a photo of the bodies under the cedar, hitherto unknown to anyone, where there are foreign traces next to the corpses. Now, I am giving you this photo, you study it. These tracks are already heavily powdered with snow, perhaps they are a month old.


So it could be traces of the hikers?

– No, they are too clear. These are not traces of wounded people. This may be the traces of their murderers.


First photo of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko under the cedar tree. Photo provided by participant in the 1959 search Vladimir Askinadzi

In his memoirs, investigator Ivanov says that he saw scorched tree branches on the pass. Some eyewitnesses say that they saw melted snow. Is this so?

– I didn’t see anything like this. None of my friends did. And anyway, if there was an explosion that broke their ribs, he probably would have stripped the cedar from all its branches with its blow.

How many soldiers worked there?

– At the time when our group was searching, the soldier were five men. And at first there were a lot of them. In the early days, there was hope that the hikers would be found sooner.

And what about the scandal with the helicopter pilots who refused to transport the bodies of the last hikers found? Allegedly, they feared that these bodies were radioactive.

– Yes there was such a situation. To transport bodies according to the instructions, we needed a special packing, but we did not have it. And here for the first time Colonel Ortyukov took out a pistol, threatening the pilots. I did not know that he had a gun. But the pilots still refused to board the corpses without the packaging. They were transported the next day, when special bags were provided.

Were you tested for radiation?

– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results.

What were the first theories for the missing tourists?

– Then all Sverdlovsk said that somewhere on the pass a rocket exploded. Colonel Ortyukov filled us with the same information. It is possible that he had this assignment. It was  convenient for the authorities to let out a rumor about the missile version, because this version justified all the secrecy surrounding this case. It somehow calmed people and even relatives of the deceased. This version was taking the search away from the real truth. Well, if it is a rocket, it's all connected with state secrets. Therefore, we should not demand explanations from the authorities. But nobody believed the authorities then, everyone knew that officials are lying. And when we returned from the search in the institute, we were interrogated separately. My friend, also a student of UPI Moses Akselrod said, that most probably it was an avalanche. I asked him - would you be scared of an avalanche? He shook his head. So Dyatlov wouldn’t be scared as well.

Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions. Well, again, these inexplicable injuries. Don’t ask me, I don’t know who or why were they murdered. But this seems to me the only explanation of their death.

November 09, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
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Marchesk


Quote from: Teddy
My friend, also a student of UPI Moses Akselrod said, that most probably it was an avalanche. I asked him - would you be scared of an avalanche? He shook his head. So Dyatlov wouldn’t be scared as well.

But what does this mean? That a small avalanche/snow slide wouldn't have been enough to make Igor head for the forest because it wouldn't have been something that scared the hikers?

So for people involved in the original search or investigation, we have avalanche, military coverup, and murder. They disagreed just like we do.

November 09, 2018, 11:47:05 PM
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Loose}{Cannon

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Quote
I only knew one person: investigator Ivanov. He behaved surprisingly detached. He didn’t even make enough photos of the crime scene. If I was an investigator, I would be all over the place, documenting everything. And he was indifferent, hands in his pockets. Apparently, everything was clear to him and that's why everything is already indifferent. In my opinion, he did not even approach the bodies

Ivanov the incompetent fool. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

November 10, 2018, 02:11:03 PM
Reply #3
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sarapuk

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Or Ivanov the intelligence officer acting on orders from his superiors.
DB

March 06, 2019, 01:11:39 AM
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Nigel Evans


Or Ivanov was ordered by Moscow to stop investigating the case and invent a coverup or the next coffin could be for him.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 05:30:03 AM by Nigel Evans »

March 07, 2019, 03:30:47 PM
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Star man

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Reading between the lines

True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results.


Because they knew the area was contaminated.

investigator Ivanov. He behaved surprisingly detached. He didn’t even make enough photos of the crime scene. If I was an investigator, I would be all over the place, documenting everything. And he was indifferent, hands in his pockets. Apparently, everything was clear to him and that's why everything is already indifferent. In my opinion, he did not even approach the bodies. By the way, on the same day Ivanov flew away. We talked with him before the left, and he told me - I promise you as a reward photos from Dyatlov's films. But he didn’t give me anything.

Because he already knew what had happened.  This was no longer an investigation, it was about recovering the bodies and covering up the truth.

To transport bodies according to the instructions, we needed a special packing, but we did not have it. And here for the first time Colonel Ortyukov took out a pistol, threatening the pilots. I did not know that he had a gun. But the pilots still refused to board the corpses without the packaging. They were transported the next day, when special bags were provided.


Why special bags?  Because they already knew the bodies were likely to be contaminated with radiation.  Wasn't this before the clothing and biological samples were taken for radiological analysis? 

March 07, 2019, 05:07:20 PM
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sarapuk

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Reading between the lines

True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results.


Because they knew the area was contaminated.

investigator Ivanov. He behaved surprisingly detached. He didn’t even make enough photos of the crime scene. If I was an investigator, I would be all over the place, documenting everything. And he was indifferent, hands in his pockets. Apparently, everything was clear to him and that's why everything is already indifferent. In my opinion, he did not even approach the bodies. By the way, on the same day Ivanov flew away. We talked with him before the left, and he told me - I promise you as a reward photos from Dyatlov's films. But he didn’t give me anything.

Because he already knew what had happened.  This was no longer an investigation, it was about recovering the bodies and covering up the truth.

To transport bodies according to the instructions, we needed a special packing, but we did not have it. And here for the first time Colonel Ortyukov took out a pistol, threatening the pilots. I did not know that he had a gun. But the pilots still refused to board the corpses without the packaging. They were transported the next day, when special bags were provided.




Why special bags?  Because they already knew the bodies were likely to be contaminated with radiation.  Wasn't this before the clothing and biological samples were taken for radiological analysis?

Or the Instruments went crazy like Ivanov's Geiger counter.
They would need special bags to protect the bodies from contamination before the Autopsies. It was still a potential crime scene. May be some people at the site were concerned about the use of Geiger Counters and thought that Radiation was a danger.
DB

March 07, 2019, 11:35:57 PM
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Star man

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Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?

March 08, 2019, 12:44:47 PM
Reply #8
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sarapuk

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Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.
DB

March 08, 2019, 04:16:19 PM
Reply #9
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.

March 09, 2019, 03:41:24 AM
Reply #10
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.
DB

March 09, 2019, 04:00:21 PM
Reply #11
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gbas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.



Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gbas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickl


Not quite.  Let me explain.  A nuclear mushroom cloud is toxic.  It is radio toxic due to the fission products, but it is also chemically toxic due to the formation of nitrogen dioxide.  A 1kt - 3kt low yield device would produce between 5 an 15 metric tonnes of NO2 within a 500 m diameter fire ball.  Evenly dispersed this would give a concentration between 37 and 111 parts per million within the mushroom cloud, both concentrations are above the toxic threshold.  this cloud if settled over the landscape could form a 6 metre thick blanket over 10 square kilometres.  It's a lot.

Under normal circumstances the fire ball and gases would rise and disperse becoming more diluted.  The dusts generated can cause seeding and can eventually result in precipitation of water forming a black radioactive rain.

But the conditions on Kholat Syakhl were far from normal.  The temperatures were well below zero.  Nitrogen dioxide is a liquid at temperatures around 20 Celsius and a white solid at temperatures below -11 Celsius.  The mushroom cloud on Kholat Syakhl that night would rapidly cool first precipitating and then freezing the nitrogen dioxide into tiny frozen droplets/particles that being much heavier than air would fall toward the ground, touching down within a kilometre or so.  It would probably behave more like frozen water vapour than a gas.  In precipitating and freezing it is also more concentrated within the tiny particles.  These particles would be whipped up and transported along the ground by the wind, flowing over the mountain   Inhalation of this vapour would result in immediate distress and panic.  The tiny particles of NO2 when they come into contact with the warm lungs and airways would vaporise again into much larger volumes of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide although toxic can take hours to kill you and can have a delayed effects, as the nitrogen dioxide slowly turns into nitric acid in the lungs eventually resulting in inflammation of the lung tissues and Odema followed by death.

So contrary to how a normal gas would behave and become diluted and be blown away, the circumstances meant that the nitrogen dioxide could actually become more concentrated as it precipitates.

Regards

Star man



March 09, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
Reply #12
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
People are gasses out in open alright... just watch a few Critical Past ww1 videos.

All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

March 09, 2019, 10:01:31 PM
Reply #13
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

March 10, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
Reply #14
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Chlorine gas attack is a good example of how a heavy gas hugs the ground.  This is similar to how nitrogen dioxide would behave on Kholat Syakhl.

Regards

Star man

March 11, 2019, 01:12:38 AM
Reply #15
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Monika


Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

March 11, 2019, 05:28:19 AM
Reply #16
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

March 11, 2019, 07:16:01 AM
Reply #17
Offline

Monika


Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

I responded to Reply no.10.  wink1

March 11, 2019, 11:51:54 AM
Reply #18
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gbas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.



Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gbas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickl


Not quite.  Let me explain.  A nuclear mushroom cloud is toxic.  It is radio toxic due to the fission products, but it is also chemically toxic due to the formation of nitrogen dioxide.  A 1kt - 3kt low yield device would produce between 5 an 15 metric tonnes of NO2 within a 500 m diameter fire ball.  Evenly dispersed this would give a concentration between 37 and 111 parts per million within the mushroom cloud, both concentrations are above the toxic threshold.  this cloud if settled over the landscape could form a 6 metre thick blanket over 10 square kilometres.  It's a lot.

Under normal circumstances the fire ball and gases would rise and disperse becoming more diluted.  The dusts generated can cause seeding and can eventually result in precipitation of water forming a black radioactive rain.

But the conditions on Kholat Syakhl were far from normal.  The temperatures were well below zero.  Nitrogen dioxide is a liquid at temperatures around 20 Celsius and a white solid at temperatures below -11 Celsius.  The mushroom cloud on Kholat Syakhl that night would rapidly cool first precipitating and then freezing the nitrogen dioxide into tiny frozen droplets/particles that being much heavier than air would fall toward the ground, touching down within a kilometre or so.  It would probably behave more like frozen water vapour than a gas.  In precipitating and freezing it is also more concentrated within the tiny particles.  These particles would be whipped up and transported along the ground by the wind, flowing over the mountain   Inhalation of this vapour would result in immediate distress and panic.  The tiny particles of NO2 when they come into contact with the warm lungs and airways would vaporise again into much larger volumes of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide although toxic can take hours to kill you and can have a delayed effects, as the nitrogen dioxide slowly turns into nitric acid in the lungs eventually resulting in inflammation of the lung tissues and Odema followed by death.

So contrary to how a normal gas would behave and become diluted and be blown away, the circumstances meant that the nitrogen dioxide could actually become more concentrated as it precipitates.

Regards

Star man

You have given a lot of technical information that frankly is not really needed  !  ?  And then you do not answer the question of,  ''If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly.''  Do you see the point that Iam getting at  ! ? The amount of GAS that you suggest would mean that they would be unlikely to walk a mile and do the other things they are supposed to have done.
DB

March 11, 2019, 11:59:50 AM
Reply #19
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Chlorine gas attack is a good example of how a heavy gas hugs the ground.  This is similar to how nitrogen dioxide would behave on Kholat Syakhl.

Regards

Star man

How do you know that Nitrogen Dioxide on Kholat Syakhl would behave like a Chlorine Gas Attack  !  ?  You would need to know the amount of Nitrogen Dioxide involved.
DB

March 11, 2019, 12:01:56 PM
Reply #20
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.
DB

March 11, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
Reply #21
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

March 13, 2019, 02:02:11 PM
Reply #22
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

Yes but you do not know if those figures you give are relative to what happened at the Site of the Dyatlov Incident. Thats what I mean by guessing.
DB

March 13, 2019, 04:02:07 PM
Reply #23
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

Yes but you do not know if those figures you give are relative to what happened at the Site of the Dyatlov Incident. Thats what I mean by guessing.

All I am really saying is that a low yield device could credibly result in a significant toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide at the camp and it could be enough to cause them to panic amd flee without collecting their shoes and warm clothes. 

Regards
Star man

March 14, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
Reply #24
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

Yes but you do not know if those figures you give are relative to what happened at the Site of the Dyatlov Incident. Thats what I mean by guessing.

All I am really saying is that a low yield device could credibly result in a significant toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide at the camp and it could be enough to cause them to panic amd flee without collecting their shoes and warm clothes. 

Regards
Star man

I cant find any information regarding such toxic levels from the type of device you are suggesting  ! ? I would have thought that after so long that there would be many Scientists able to give such information if it was correct.
DB

March 14, 2019, 04:22:33 PM
Reply #25
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

Yes but you do not know if those figures you give are relative to what happened at the Site of the Dyatlov Incident. Thats what I mean by guessing.

All I am really saying is that a low yield device could credibly result in a significant toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide at the camp and it could be enough to cause them to panic amd flee without collecting their shoes and warm clothes. 

Regards
Star man

I cant find any information regarding such toxic levels from the type of device you are suggesting  ! ? I would have thought that after so long that there would be many Scientists able to give such information if it was correct.

It's because normally the tests are not carried out in such frigid conditions and when they are there isn't normally anyone that is exposed to the direct fallout.  The chemical toxicity of the cloud is not really what they are interested in as it's only minor compared to the full impact.

March 15, 2019, 01:17:24 PM
Reply #26
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Why did you decide that on there was a murder on the pass?

– I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions


The above is the opinion of an experienced hiker. He can’t see how they could have frozen to death!

He also likes the theory of the toxic cloud driving them from the tent.

Maybe toxic nitrogen dioxide cloud forces them from camp and affects their breathing to the point where they are confused and function properly which results in the injuries.

He already knows that the rocket theory is a cover up. So what are they covering up and why?


Vladimir Askindazi seems like a convincing and reliable witness. But its only his supposition at play here . Maybe the freezing was a contributory factor to some of the deaths. Toxic Cloud, I would have thought unlikely to have driven them a mile without adequate clothing to survive. And then what about the other strange events, i e the climbing of the Tree, The making of the so called Den, the extraordinary injuries of some at the Ravine. How do they fit in with a Toxic Cloud  !  ?  Especially abandoning a safe place to go to certain DEATH.

Although he likes the toxic cloud idea.  I don't think he really understands how a toxic cloud could have been there.  He doesn't say anything about it.  On the other hand I can see how a toxic cloud could have descended on the camp.  Several square kilometres of it.  Enough to drive them from the camp and lead to the events at the cedar, the den and the injuries.  A low yield nuke could do it. 

In a way I would prefer if a low yield nuke was not a likely option.  I think I would prefer that it was just some freak natural accident.  Even the Yeti would sit better with me.  But after reviewing the files it scores highly.  The radiation, the deaths, the injuries, the secrecy and cover up, the moratorium and implications of the truth.

Something happened that night.  Something really bad.  Even without the tent and the shoes they should have survived. 

I think some of them did actually freeze.  Dyatlov probably froze to death, and the cold would certainly have the effect of speeding up their demise.  But there was something else.  Some other hazard or threat that meant that even with their skill and experience there was little hope.


Toxic Cloud as in Gas Cloud  !  ?  In confined spaces like a small or even large room I would say yes a Gas of some kind could cause people to flee that room in panic. But thats about it. They would then gather their senses, unless the Gas was of a nature that DISABLED them. The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas. You suggest several kilometres of Gas. If it was poisonous then that amount of Gas would surely kill them all very quickly. So I keep finding holes in the Gas Theory.

I totally agree with your opinion:
"The Dyatlov Tent was in a fairly windy location. Any wind would surely blow away any Gas, or maybe the right word is DISSIPATE the Gas."

It is important to realize that the whole event has taken place in an open space.

And if they were hit by the toxic gas at the tent, how could they then behave reasonably and logically in the forest and at the den?

The answers to the question you raise are all in the above posts?

Regards

Star man

They are not answers, they are guesses.

It's all based on calculation. 

The mass of nitrogen dioxide generated is given by m=5000x where x is yield in mega tonnes and m is in tonnes?  This from the literature.

For 1E-3 mega tonnes or 1kt gives m = 5 tonnes = 5E6 grammes

Number of moles = 5E6/46. 46 being relative molecular mass of nitrogen dioxide

Number of moles = 108.69 kmoles

Volume of 1 mole of gas is about 21 litres at -20 Celsius or 0.021 cubic metres, calculated using ideal gas equation

Therefore total volume of nitrogen dioxide produced on Kholat Syakhl from 1kt is 2282.6 cubic metres

Volume of 500 metre diameter fire ball = 65.45E6 cubic metres

Concentration of NO2= 2282.6/65.45E6 = 3.5E-5 = 35 ppm

It comes out at 35ppm rather than 37 as I have slightly adjusted for temperatures.

For every 1kt of yield the concentration increases by 35 ppm

65.45E6 cubic metres of gas  if stretched out as a 6 metres slab equates to 10.9E6 square metres.  1 square km is 1E6 square metres which gives 10.9 square kilometres of toxic gas.

Nitrogen dioxide even as a gas is heavier than air.  It has a relative atomic mass of 46 whereas air has an average relative atomic mass of 29 so it sinks.  It's slightly heavier than carbon dioxide gas.

Irrespective of its weight, below 21 Celsius it is a volatile liquid and will precipitate into droplets at nucleation sites such as small dust particles.  At -11 Celsius the droplets will freeze into a fine foggy mist. The small solid particles will fall out of the air and be blown along.

It is well known that nitrogen dioxide does not kill you immediately if exposed.  It can take many hours before its effects can eventually result in death.

There isn't any guessing in it.

Regards

Star man

Yes but you do not know if those figures you give are relative to what happened at the Site of the Dyatlov Incident. Thats what I mean by guessing.

All I am really saying is that a low yield device could credibly result in a significant toxic cloud of nitrogen dioxide at the camp and it could be enough to cause them to panic amd flee without collecting their shoes and warm clothes. 

Regards
Star man

I cant find any information regarding such toxic levels from the type of device you are suggesting  ! ? I would have thought that after so long that there would be many Scientists able to give such information if it was correct.

It's because normally the tests are not carried out in such frigid conditions and when they are there isn't normally anyone that is exposed to the direct fallout.  The chemical toxicity of the cloud is not really what they are interested in as it's only minor compared to the full impact.

On the contrary, from what I understand, all Nuclear Weapons Tests are strictly controlled and monitored for all sorts of FALLOUT and BLAST  etc etc. Thats the reason they have the Tests, apart from whether or not the thing is going to explode,  they want to know exactly what the effects are.
DB

March 19, 2019, 06:30:51 AM
Reply #27
Offline

User45



Natalya Varsegova and Vladimir Askindazi

When you dug them out, supposedly Semen Zolotaryov had a notebook in one hand, and in another pencil?

– Yes, the memory of the episode with a notebook made a big impression on me. Because Colonel Ortyukov, who directed the searches, somehow behaved inadequately. He jumped like a madman when he saw that there was a notebook in the hands of one of the bodies. We couldn’t say who that was. We didn’t know the guys, and they were practically unrecognizable. So, Ortyukov grabbed the notebook and began to turn the pages, and I stood beside him. She flipped back and forth, but it is empty. And Ortyukov cursed in his heart, I do not remember words exactly, but he said, approximately, something like: "Ah, slug, couldn’t write anything ...".



"Ah, slug, couldn’t write anything ...".  It almost feels to me like Colonel Ortyukov felt dissapointed in Zolotaryov for not documenting something he was supposed to. It feels to me like the Colonel was frustrated that (metaphor) his soldier did not succesfully complete his task which was appointed to him.

Rushing towards the notebook is understandable for two reasons;

The notebook may have held the last thoughts of Zolotaryov and possibly the other members of the group, and possibly crucial, lead information about the incident.

The notebook may have been the vital part of documentation on the instructed ''mission''.

And let's not forget the camera carried with Zolotaryov.

What do you think? I find it very odd that most of the officials behaved like they knew what had happened and are just making sure that the aftermath is being dealt with.

And where is this notebook? I suppose it is the same answer as it is with the tent...

« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 06:42:57 AM by User45 »

March 19, 2019, 12:49:06 PM
Reply #28
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Natalya Varsegova and Vladimir Askindazi

When you dug them out, supposedly Semen Zolotaryov had a notebook in one hand, and in another pencil?

– Yes, the memory of the episode with a notebook made a big impression on me. Because Colonel Ortyukov, who directed the searches, somehow behaved inadequately. He jumped like a madman when he saw that there was a notebook in the hands of one of the bodies. We couldn’t say who that was. We didn’t know the guys, and they were practically unrecognizable. So, Ortyukov grabbed the notebook and began to turn the pages, and I stood beside him. She flipped back and forth, but it is empty. And Ortyukov cursed in his heart, I do not remember words exactly, but he said, approximately, something like: "Ah, slug, couldn’t write anything ...".



"Ah, slug, couldn’t write anything ...".  It almost feels to me like Colonel Ortyukov felt dissapointed in Zolotaryov for not documenting something he was supposed to. It feels to me like the Colonel was frustrated that (metaphor) his soldier did not succesfully complete his task which was appointed to him.

Rushing towards the notebook is understandable for two reasons;

The notebook may have held the last thoughts of Zolotaryov and possibly the other members of the group, and possibly crucial, lead information about the incident.

The notebook may have been the vital part of documentation on the instructed ''mission''.

And let's not forget the camera carried with Zolotaryov.

What do you think? I find it very odd that most of the officials behaved like they knew what had happened and are just making sure that the aftermath is being dealt with.

And where is this notebook? I suppose it is the same answer as it is with the tent...

There is no real evidence to suggest that any of the officials behaved like they knew what had happened. Sure one or two may have appeared to act indifferently but they were confronted with unusual circumstances.
DB