August 20, 2019, 08:06:04 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Low Yield Nuclear Test - Tragic Accident version 2  (Read 4577 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

January 27, 2019, 11:39:29 PM
Reply #60
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Thanks for the physics.

Another meta-info from me:

Kolmogorova, 28.Jan 1959

Sasha Kolevatov tested his device, then quit.



What, Woot, Which device? Who found that device. What is it.

Is this device reported in the inspection of things?

Is there any more information on it? 

Was this test made at the abandoned mining town?

It is an interesting line of investigation

Regards

Star man

January 28, 2019, 08:05:33 AM
Reply #61
Offline

Dominov


In the tent the search team found, quote:

"8. tins with wires etc." -> etc. This «etc.» indicates that the search team didn't have the slightest idea what these tins could be used for.

These could be passive radio receivers.The group had three students of radio engineering (Kolomogorova, Dyatlov, Doroschenko).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detektorempf%C3%A4nger#/media/File:Kristallradio_(2).JPG

I guess this is the object Kolmogorova referred to as Kolevatov's «device».

Did they try to receive a radio signal. And was that the reason they pitched the tent on the slope of the mountain and not in the valley? Reception of radio signals is better on a mountain...

Edit: You need quartz and pyrit for these devices.... That's what they were looking for in the abandoned mine.

What kind of message would they receive?

regards

Dominov
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 08:11:09 AM by Dominov »

January 28, 2019, 08:43:29 AM
Reply #62
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In the tent the search team found, quote:

"8. tins with wires etc." -> etc. This «etc.» indicates that the search team didn't have the slightest idea what these tins could be used for.

These could be passive radio receivers.The group had three students of radio engineering (Kolomogorova, Dyatlov, Doroschenko).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detektorempf%C3%A4nger#/media/File:Kristallradio_(2).JPG

I guess this is the object Kolmogorova referred to as Kolevatov's «device».

Did they try to receive a radio signal. And was that the reason they pitched the tent on the slope of the mountain and not in the valley? Reception of radio signals is better on a mountain...

Edit: You need quartz and pyrit for these devices.... That's what they were looking for in the abandoned mine.

What kind of message would they receive?

regards

Dominov

They obviously weren’t standard radio transmitters or receivers if they were not easily identified?  Possibly some university prototype instrument?

It’s interesting.  Could be something to do with communication. Could be an experiment in effects of EMP?  Could be something to do with detecting minerals?

Regards

Star man

January 28, 2019, 09:46:06 AM
Reply #63
Offline

Dominov


Another scenario:

These were indeed radio receivers. After having arrived on the mountain they received the location and the time of the test bomb. They realized that they were way too close.  They? I think some knew what was going to happen. They told the others. Some would not be pleased, or even angry. But they had to leave this place immediately. They had to get into safe distance from the bomb or rocket that would very soon explode behind the Dead Mountain. 1.5 Km is a safe distance considering the fact that the mountain shields a lot of the bombs devastating effects. The cedar was the ideal location to observe the incident behind the mountain. What happened after the bomb had exploded remains a subject of speculation and our discussion. The group could have started a fight, some could have fallen from the tree. Some could have been contaminated with radiation from the fallout.

The low yield nuke becomes more and more likely.

BTW. This was a bomb test far away from preying eyes. The Sowjetunion and the USA signed a nuclear moratorium in 1958. Tests were forbidden. The USA invented the neutron bomb in 1957. This was a real game changer. The Sowjetunion was in a hurry to catch up with  their enemy.

January 28, 2019, 11:33:37 AM
Reply #64
Offline

gypsy


Reading the theory that the group (or some members) were in possession of a radio transmitter/receiver, I think it would be interesting to think whether they actually went to the area with a certain task or just to test their presumable home-made equipment and overheard something they were not supposed to hear (supposedly military communication about the bomb or other military equipment test in the area) or their broadcast was intercepted by the military/secret services. If there was indeed some kind of covert operation or test in progress that night, there would most certainly be somebody to observe. The military would definitely be able to approach any place without leaving significant markings - using wide skis, helicopters etc. The testing of mititary equipment or explosives would be secret enough that the local authorities would not know about it and the personnel from Moscow could have been sent to oversee the investigation and make sure it is closed as soon as possible.

Above mentioned would explain:

1. pitching a tent on the slope for better reception of a signal (as mentioned before in this thread)
2. abandoning the place of camping to avoid exposure by the military and not returning anytime soon
3. climbing the tree to make sure it is safe to return (and fall)
4. no foreign traces on the ground
5. possible (this is just a speculation) conflict among the group when hypothermia kicked in - disagreement whether to stay in the woods safely or get back to get exposed, set or not to set up a fire etc...


January 28, 2019, 11:41:34 AM
Reply #65
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Another scenario:

These were indeed radio receivers. After having arrived on the mountain they received the location and the time of the test bomb. They realized that they were way too close.  They? I think some knew what was going to happen. They told the others. Some would not be pleased, or even angry. But they had to leave this place immediately. They had to get into safe distance from the bomb or rocket that would very soon explode behind the Dead Mountain. 1.5 Km is a safe distance considering the fact that the mountain shields a lot of the bombs devastating effects. The cedar was the ideal location to observe the incident behind the mountain. What happened after the bomb had exploded remains a subject of speculation and our discussion. The group could have started a fight, some could have fallen from the tree. Some could have been contaminated with radiation from the fallout.

The low yield nuke becomes more and more likely.

BTW. This was a bomb test far away from preying eyes. The Sowjetunion and the USA signed a nuclear moratorium in 1958. Tests were forbidden. The USA invented the neutron bomb in 1957. This was a real game changer. The Sowjetunion was in a hurry to catch up with  their enemy.


An highly unlikely scenario.  The Soviet Union had strict guidelines regarding the Testing of Nuclear Weapons etc.  They had OBSERVERS in all the right places. They didnt just fire off missiles with nukes attached, and they had very specific areas where these Tests took place and the area where the Dyatlov Group were was not one of those areas. And there is ABSOULUTELY no evidence whatsoever that suggests any Nuclear Weapons exploded in the area.
DB

January 28, 2019, 01:52:57 PM
Reply #66
Offline

Dominov


@Gipsy
Quote
If there was indeed some kind of covert operation or test in progress that night, there would most certainly be somebody to observe.

Some of the group members were the observers. No obvious military involved. The group was the covert op, or at least some of them.

@Sarapuk
Quote
An highly unlikely scenario.
On the contrary. Tests were forbidden because of the nuke moratorium. They couldn't test bombs where the USA and the Western World would suspect them to break the treaty.

Quote
And there is ABSOULUTELY no evidence whatsoever that suggests any Nuclear Weapons exploded in the area.

Oh there is. Go download Google Earth. In the valley behind the Dead Mountain (South West) you'll find some very big rocks which don't belong there. The valley is perfectly eroded. These rocks are very different from the weather-worn rocks on the ridges of the Dead mountain. They just don't belong there unless «a compelling force» would have moved them or created them there.

Just have a look. And yes, we don't have to discuss the meaning of the word «secret», do we?

regards

Dominov

January 28, 2019, 02:36:25 PM
Reply #67
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Dominov - Your train of thought is starting to look pretty awesome IMO.  grin1

It would explain why they deviated off course and set up camp there.  I also suspect some of them mighty have known and had been observers.  Semyon's last minute appearance on the team?  The radio transmitter ( do you have confirmation that it was a radio)?

I Have not checked minimum safe distance for 1 to 3 KT device.  I know they are deadly up to 1.2 km from radiation pulse, but the summit would have provided ideal shielding as you have said.  So maybe 1.5 km is enough. 

What I think they may not have anticipated is that it was so cold, that the mushroom cloud would cool so rapidly that it could precipitate a fine ground hugging toxic fog of nitrogen dioxide.  In other words a toxic fog of fallout.

When this hit them they had no choice but to try and escape it.  The panic would be amplified by the fact that they knew it was radioactive fallout as well as being toxic and resulting in acute exposure to NO2.

I say the above because they didn't have time to put on their shoes.  Whatever went wrong they didn't expect it. The Cedar was a place to climb out of the ground hugging toxic gas cloud.  Some of these people did not die of hypothermia and I'm not just talking about those with chest and head injuries.

If the group were there to observe then something went wrong.

Good points about the timing and monatorium.  This type of device being developed in US must have been high on the agenda in other countries.

January 28, 2019, 02:38:15 PM
Reply #68
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Dominos what research do you have on the south west side of the mountain?  Am interested.

Regards

Star man

January 28, 2019, 09:05:29 PM
Reply #69
Online

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

January 28, 2019, 11:45:56 PM
Reply #70
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious.

Yes it would be visible for some distance. Sound would depend on wind speed and direction but would be weakly audible from distance.

However it would not last long.  Bright flash would last several seconds.  Fire ball 500 metres would last 10 to 20 seconds at a guess .

These devices are not like the massively devastating images usually portrayed on our tv screens.  They are tactical. Designed to be used to stop advancing armies by Capet bombing them.  Designed to take people out via radiation blast rather than infrastructure.

500 metre fire ball would be visible from 70km as an orange orb slightly smaller than the moon would look and last probably a maximum of 30 seconds at a rough guess.

January 29, 2019, 03:38:27 AM
Reply #71
Offline

Dominov


The low yield nuke theory in combination with a covert op (Some group members) can explain a lot of things.

  • The report of lights in the sky, e.g. the reflections of a plane heading toward the Dead Mountain or the explosion itself causing strange strobostobic lights and orbs through a snow storm and causing strange reflections on the clouds hovering over the Dead Mountain
  • The deviation from the planned route and the location of the tent (receive radio signals)
  • The existence of so many cameras. They were expensive and not available for the common ppl.
  • Tins with wires etc.-> Kolevatov's device in combination with pyrit from the abandoned mine.
  • The detection of nuclear contamination on some of the clothes (maybe the bomb was not very perfect. More like a dirty neutron bomb)
  • NO2 as a byproduct of nuclear explosions causing edemas (Doroschenko)
  • Possible conflicts or fights among the group members
  • Even the possibility of small snow slabs (No super avalances)
  • The fact that some of the members didn't seem to behave like freezing ppl. The air around the explosion could have been heated for some time.
  • The fact that 4 group members didn't try to get back to the tent because of the radiation. They were waiting. They were better dressed and had shoes but didn't try to get back to the tent.
  • The interpretation that they built a lookout post on the cedar
  • The possibility of the presence of Mansi People. They would have wanted to know what happened... Who would they blame?
  • The absence of at least two diaries (Kolevatov's and Thibeaux's). There are suggestions that the military was on site before the search party.
  • The picture «Three heads»
  • Restricted access to the area for THREE years although the Dyatlov group died of hypothermia and a compelling force...

Still unexplained:

  • Missing shoes
  • The sock business
  • Cuts in the tent
  • Missing eyeballs
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:49:11 AM by Dominov »

January 29, 2019, 04:27:48 AM
Reply #72
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
What’s the issue with the shoes?  Wasn’t aware that shoes were unaccounted for?

The socks in combination with the gloves in pockets and unbuttoned or unzipped jackets doesn’t give impression the cold was their major hazard.

I think LC has already presented a convincing explanation for the cuts in the tent in a different thread in terms of poor handling of tent during its recovery.

The eyes- could simply be small animals scavengers like birds taking them before bodies covered by snow.


January 29, 2019, 04:42:58 AM
Reply #73
Offline

Dominov


What’s the issue with the shoes?  Wasn’t aware that shoes were unaccounted for?

The socks in combination with the gloves in pockets and unbuttoned or unzipped jackets doesn’t give impression the cold was their major hazard.

[....]

I mean: missing shoes on their feet....

Crows are a candidates which are known for picking out eyes, sheep eyes, or the eyes of dead people. But do they live in the Ural?

Btw. the position of the bodies in the ravine does not tell us much about what happened. Water and melting snow slowly moved and rolled them away from the location of their death.

As you may have noticed I start taking the NO2-presence seriously. It makes sense.

regards

Dominov

January 29, 2019, 08:45:36 AM
Reply #74
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I think that Semyon and Thino were outside tent with shoes etc. I think some of the others were also outside but did not have shoes on. Then with little warning the cloud of NO2 hits them and they have no time to get any other clothing.

There could be other scavengers too. Rats etc.

I think the only reason they built a den in the ravine was because Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo were already injured and could not attempt to walk back to the tent. 

Their injuries are consistent with falling 5 metres onto the ground.  The tree is the most likely place.  Why did they all fall. It wasn’t because they were clumsy or weak. It was because they were suffering from hypoxia which can cause you to black out.

That’s what I currently think happened.

Regards
Star man

January 29, 2019, 09:24:59 AM
Reply #75
Offline

Dominov


Ok. So they walked down the slope in a clould of stinking and poisonous NO2. How long did it take them to reach the cedar? My guess is this descent would take about 45 minutes walking in an uneventful and orderly fashion. They would have been exposed to NO2 for almost an hour. Wouldn't that have killed them all much earlier?

regards

Dominov

January 29, 2019, 09:53:48 AM
Reply #76
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Ok. So they walked down the slope in a clould of stinking and poisonous NO2. How long did it take them to reach the cedar? My guess is this descent would take about 45 minutes walking in an uneventful and orderly fashion. They would have been exposed to NO2 for almost an hour. Wouldn't that have killed them all much earlier?

regards

Dominov

It would have been very unpleasant and may have caused difficulty breathing, but toxic effect and Odema can be delayed by 24 hours.

January 29, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Reply #77
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Below is an extract from Wikipedia on nitrogen dioxide toxicity:

exposure is only likely to arise in occupational settings. Direct exposure to the skin can cause irritations and burns. Only very high concentrations of the gaseous form cause immediate distress: 10–20 ppm can cause mild irritation of the nose and throat, 25–50 ppm can cause edema leading to bronchitis or pneumonia, and levels above 100 ppm can cause death due to asphyxiation from fluid in the lungs. There are often no symptoms at the time of exposure other than transient cough, fatigue or nausea, but over hours inflammation in the lungs causes edema.[24][25]

January 29, 2019, 03:26:44 PM
Reply #78
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not sure how substantiated this is, but was listening to a radio interview with Keith McCloskey on spaced out radio and he said that the night of the DPI two long range nuclear bombers flew over the area on some kind of test run.

He said the theory was that they may have been testing parachute mines.


January 30, 2019, 01:26:48 PM
Reply #79
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
@Gipsy
Quote
If there was indeed some kind of covert operation or test in progress that night, there would most certainly be somebody to observe.

Some of the group members were the observers. No obvious military involved. The group was the covert op, or at least some of them.

@Sarapuk
Quote
An highly unlikely scenario.
On the contrary. Tests were forbidden because of the nuke moratorium. They couldn't test bombs where the USA and the Western World would suspect them to break the treaty.

Quote
And there is ABSOULUTELY no evidence whatsoever that suggests any Nuclear Weapons exploded in the area.

Oh there is. Go download Google Earth. In the valley behind the Dead Mountain (South West) you'll find some very big rocks which don't belong there. The valley is perfectly eroded. These rocks are very different from the weather-worn rocks on the ridges of the Dead mountain. They just don't belong there unless «a compelling force» would have moved them or created them there.

Just have a look. And yes, we don't have to discuss the meaning of the word «secret», do we?

regards

Dominov


It doesnt make sense for the USSR Military to use a group of students on an important observation mission.  The Nuclear Tests were temporarily suspended, there were no Tests for 1959.  Those Rocks you mention are natural geographic / geological features.
DB

January 30, 2019, 01:33:13 PM
Reply #80
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious.


ABSOLUTELY.  Even small nukes would have a presence. The Tribal people of that area did not report any such explosions, etc.
DB

January 30, 2019, 01:36:15 PM
Reply #81
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious.

Yes it would be visible for some distance. Sound would depend on wind speed and direction but would be weakly audible from distance.

However it would not last long.  Bright flash would last several seconds.  Fire ball 500 metres would last 10 to 20 seconds at a guess .

These devices are not like the massively devastating images usually portrayed on our tv screens.  They are tactical. Designed to be used to stop advancing armies by Capet bombing them.  Designed to take people out via radiation blast rather than infrastructure.

500 metre fire ball would be visible from 70km as an orange orb slightly smaller than the moon would look and last probably a maximum of 30 seconds at a rough guess.


How do you know what the particular effects would be when you dont even know the yield of any such weapon alleged to have been involved  !  ?  This is SPECULATION PILED UPON SPECULATION.
DB

January 30, 2019, 01:41:01 PM
Reply #82
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The low yield nuke theory in combination with a covert op (Some group members) can explain a lot of things.

  • The report of lights in the sky, e.g. the reflections of a plane heading toward the Dead Mountain or the explosion itself causing strange strobostobic lights and orbs through a snow storm and causing strange reflections on the clouds hovering over the Dead Mountain
  • The deviation from the planned route and the location of the tent (receive radio signals)
  • The existence of so many cameras. They were expensive and not available for the common ppl.
  • Tins with wires etc.-> Kolevatov's device in combination with pyrit from the abandoned mine.
  • The detection of nuclear contamination on some of the clothes (maybe the bomb was not very perfect. More like a dirty neutron bomb)
  • NO2 as a byproduct of nuclear explosions causing edemas (Doroschenko)
  • Possible conflicts or fights among the group members
  • Even the possibility of small snow slabs (No super avalances)
  • The fact that some of the members didn't seem to behave like freezing ppl. The air around the explosion could have been heated for some time.
  • The fact that 4 group members didn't try to get back to the tent because of the radiation. They were waiting. They were better dressed and had shoes but didn't try to get back to the tent.
  • The interpretation that they built a lookout post on the cedar
  • The possibility of the presence of Mansi People. They would have wanted to know what happened... Who would they blame?
  • The absence of at least two diaries (Kolevatov's and Thibeaux's). There are suggestions that the military was on site before the search party.
  • The picture «Three heads»
  • Restricted access to the area for THREE years although the Dyatlov group died of hypothermia and a compelling force...

Still unexplained:

  • Missing shoes
  • The sock business
  • Cuts in the tent
  • Missing eyeballs


Your theory, if that is what it can be called, doesnt really explain much at all. All you are offering is POSSIBLE THIS AND POSSIBLE THAT  ! ? And the usual ASSUMPTIONS.
DB

January 30, 2019, 01:43:53 PM
Reply #83
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not sure how substantiated this is, but was listening to a radio interview with Keith McCloskey on spaced out radio and he said that the night of the DPI two long range nuclear bombers flew over the area on some kind of test run.

He said the theory was that they may have been testing parachute mines.


Is there any EVIDENCE to back this claim up  !  ? 
DB

January 30, 2019, 03:02:15 PM
Reply #84
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious.

Yes it would be visible for some distance. Sound would depend on wind speed and direction but would be weakly audible from distance.

However it would not last long.  Bright flash would last several seconds.  Fire ball 500 metres would last 10 to 20 seconds at a guess .

These devices are not like the massively devastating images usually portrayed on our tv screens.  They are tactical. Designed to be used to stop advancing armies by Capet bombing them.  Designed to take people out via radiation blast rather than infrastructure.

500 metre fire ball would be visible from 70km as an orange orb slightly smaller than the moon would look and last probably a maximum of 30 seconds at a rough guess.


How do you know what the particular effects would be when you dont even know the yield of any such weapon alleged to have been involved  !  ?  This is SPECULATION PILED UPON SPECULATION.

It was either a tactical nuke or it wasn't a nuke at all.  Why? Because a standard fission device would have left more significant evidence in terms of flattened burned trees etc.  A fusion device would be a whole new ball game.  They would never have found the group.  They maybe would find their shadows burned into the rocks where they had once stood.

A tactical nuke would only be several kilotonnes.  This is still a big explosion but more like big conventional weapon.  If it was more than this it wouldn't be tactical.

Dominov is correct when he talks about the development of these tactical devices (late 1950s to early 1960s). he is also right to suspect the covert op.  Nobody seems to be able to explain why they deviated from route.  Nothing in diaries?  What was the device Kolevatov had? It might seem unimportant but until we know what it was it isn't.

In terms of what it would look like then it would,look as I have described.  It would be visible but only if you were outside and looking in the right direction at the right time for the 30 seconds or so that it was visible in the sky.  AND there are reports from people who did see something, but who probably didn't understand what they were looking at.  I suspect others saw it too but never made such reports, so there will be no documented evidence of this.

January 30, 2019, 03:05:47 PM
Reply #85
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not sure how substantiated this is, but was listening to a radio interview with Keith McCloskey on spaced out radio and he said that the night of the DPI two long range nuclear bombers flew over the area on some kind of test run.

He said the theory was that they may have been testing parachute mines.


Is there any EVIDENCE to back this claim up  !  ?

No idea if there is evidence.  I was simply relaying what he McCloskey had said in his radio interview.

January 30, 2019, 03:35:56 PM
Reply #86
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The low yield nuke theory in combination with a covert op (Some group members) can explain a lot of things.

  • The report of lights in the sky, e.g. the reflections of a plane heading toward the Dead Mountain or the explosion itself causing strange strobostobic lights and orbs through a snow storm and causing strange reflections on the clouds hovering over the Dead Mountain
  • The deviation from the planned route and the location of the tent (receive radio signals)
  • The existence of so many cameras. They were expensive and not available for the common ppl.
  • Tins with wires etc.-> Kolevatov's device in combination with pyrit from the abandoned mine.
  • The detection of nuclear contamination on some of the clothes (maybe the bomb was not very perfect. More like a dirty neutron bomb)
  • NO2 as a byproduct of nuclear explosions causing edemas (Doroschenko)
  • Possible conflicts or fights among the group members
  • Even the possibility of small snow slabs (No super avalances)
  • The fact that some of the members didn't seem to behave like freezing ppl. The air around the explosion could have been heated for some time.
  • The fact that 4 group members didn't try to get back to the tent because of the radiation. They were waiting. They were better dressed and had shoes but didn't try to get back to the tent.
  • The interpretation that they built a lookout post on the cedar
  • The possibility of the presence of Mansi People. They would have wanted to know what happened... Who would they blame?
  • The absence of at least two diaries (Kolevatov's and Thibeaux's). There are suggestions that the military was on site before the search party.
  • The picture «Three heads»
  • Restricted access to the area for THREE years although the Dyatlov group died of hypothermia and a compelling force...

Still unexplained:

  • Missing shoes
  • The sock business
  • Cuts in the tent
  • Missing eyeballs


Your theory, if that is what it can be called, doesnt really explain much at all. All you are offering is POSSIBLE THIS AND POSSIBLE THAT  ! ? And the usual ASSUMPTIONS.

To be accurate, it is a hypothesis rather than a theory.  There are no theories for the DPI.

If you read the original post it presents a narrative that attempts to explain the events of the night.  I think it presents a possible explanation for many things, including:

Why Semyon had his camera, and why many of the group were outside the tent watching or observing this test.

Why they left the camp site.without their shoes - immediate distress caused by high concentration of NO2

Why they chose the Cedar tree - tall enough to climb above a layer of toxic smog.

How they got many of their injuries - climbing tree (small scratches and abrasions), falling out of the tree - losing consciousness due to the delayed effects of NO2 poisoning which slowly causes inflammation of the lungs, Odema, methemoglobin and hypoxia.  Later posts examine the chest injuries in detail including breaking forces, which are entirely consistent with falling out of a tree onto the ground.

Why they built the den - because the people injured falling out of the tree meant they could not attempt to go back to the tent.

Ultimately it explains the strange deaths of those with non life threatening injuries and who obviously didn't die of hypothermia.  - NO2 poisoning.

Dominovprovides the background and context for the whole thing and may explain what they were doing there.  Dominovs observations of the clothes clearly shows that hypothermia was not their biggest worry.

January 30, 2019, 05:05:39 PM
Reply #87
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am under the impression that a tactical nuke (low yield) at any altitude would have been heard and seen by hundreds of people and very obvious.

Yes it would be visible for some distance. Sound would depend on wind speed and direction but would be weakly audible from distance.

However it would not last long.  Bright flash would last several seconds.  Fire ball 500 metres would last 10 to 20 seconds at a guess .

These devices are not like the massively devastating images usually portrayed on our tv screens.  They are tactical. Designed to be used to stop advancing armies by Capet bombing them.  Designed to take people out via radiation blast rather than infrastructure.

500 metre fire ball would be visible from 70km as an orange orb slightly smaller than the moon would look and last probably a maximum of 30 seconds at a rough guess.


How do you know what the particular effects would be when you dont even know the yield of any such weapon alleged to have been involved  !  ?  This is SPECULATION PILED UPON SPECULATION.

It was either a tactical nuke or it wasn't a nuke at all.  Why? Because a standard fission device would have left more significant evidence in terms of flattened burned trees etc.  A fusion device would be a whole new ball game.  They would never have found the group.  They maybe would find their shadows burned into the rocks where they had once stood.

A tactical nuke would only be several kilotonnes.  This is still a big explosion but more like big conventional weapon.  If it was more than this it wouldn't be tactical.

Dominov is correct when he talks about the development of these tactical devices (late 1950s to early 1960s). he is also right to suspect the covert op.  Nobody seems to be able to explain why they deviated from route.  Nothing in diaries?  What was the device Kolevatov had? It might seem unimportant but until we know what it was it isn't.

In terms of what it would look like then it would,look as I have described.  It would be visible but only if you were outside and looking in the right direction at the right time for the 30 seconds or so that it was visible in the sky.  AND there are reports from people who did see something, but who probably didn't understand what they were looking at.  I suspect others saw it too but never made such reports, so there will be no documented evidence of this.


If its more like a big conventional weapon then why bother with a nuke  ! ?  The deviation is slight but noticeable and may be due to weather or something that scared them in or near to the forest.  Well we really do need as much evidence as possible and for this particular theory there doesnt seem to be any at all  !  ?
DB

January 30, 2019, 05:09:54 PM
Reply #88
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not sure how substantiated this is, but was listening to a radio interview with Keith McCloskey on spaced out radio and he said that the night of the DPI two long range nuclear bombers flew over the area on some kind of test run.

He said the theory was that they may have been testing parachute mines.


Is there any EVIDENCE to back this claim up  !  ?

No idea if there is evidence.  I was simply relaying what he McCloskey had said in his radio interview.


Fair enough. Its worth investigating, but I doubt there is any evidence at all and McCloskey is just surmising.
DB

January 30, 2019, 05:19:42 PM
Reply #89
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The low yield nuke theory in combination with a covert op (Some group members) can explain a lot of things.

  • The report of lights in the sky, e.g. the reflections of a plane heading toward the Dead Mountain or the explosion itself causing strange strobostobic lights and orbs through a snow storm and causing strange reflections on the clouds hovering over the Dead Mountain
  • The deviation from the planned route and the location of the tent (receive radio signals)
  • The existence of so many cameras. They were expensive and not available for the common ppl.
  • Tins with wires etc.-> Kolevatov's device in combination with pyrit from the abandoned mine.
  • The detection of nuclear contamination on some of the clothes (maybe the bomb was not very perfect. More like a dirty neutron bomb)
  • NO2 as a byproduct of nuclear explosions causing edemas (Doroschenko)
  • Possible conflicts or fights among the group members
  • Even the possibility of small snow slabs (No super avalances)
  • The fact that some of the members didn't seem to behave like freezing ppl. The air around the explosion could have been heated for some time.
  • The fact that 4 group members didn't try to get back to the tent because of the radiation. They were waiting. They were better dressed and had shoes but didn't try to get back to the tent.
  • The interpretation that they built a lookout post on the cedar
  • The possibility of the presence of Mansi People. They would have wanted to know what happened... Who would they blame?
  • The absence of at least two diaries (Kolevatov's and Thibeaux's). There are suggestions that the military was on site before the search party.
  • The picture «Three heads»
  • Restricted access to the area for THREE years although the Dyatlov group died of hypothermia and a compelling force...

Still unexplained:

  • Missing shoes
  • The sock business
  • Cuts in the tent
  • Missing eyeballs


Your theory, if that is what it can be called, doesnt really explain much at all. All you are offering is POSSIBLE THIS AND POSSIBLE THAT  ! ? And the usual ASSUMPTIONS.

To be accurate, it is a hypothesis rather than a theory.  There are no theories for the DPI.

If you read the original post it presents a narrative that attempts to explain the events of the night.  I think it presents a possible explanation for many things, including:

Why Semyon had his camera, and why many of the group were outside the tent watching or observing this test.

Why they left the camp site.without their shoes - immediate distress caused by high concentration of NO2

Why they chose the Cedar tree - tall enough to climb above a layer of toxic smog.

How they got many of their injuries - climbing tree (small scratches and abrasions), falling out of the tree - losing consciousness due to the delayed effects of NO2 poisoning which slowly causes inflammation of the lungs, Odema, methemoglobin and hypoxia.  Later posts examine the chest injuries in detail including breaking forces, which are entirely consistent with falling out of a tree onto the ground.

Why they built the den - because the people injured falling out of the tree meant they could not attempt to go back to the tent.

Ultimately it explains the strange deaths of those with non life threatening injuries and who obviously didn't die of hypothermia.  - NO2 poisoning.

Dominovprovides the background and context for the whole thing and may explain what they were doing there.  Dominovs observations of the clothes clearly shows that hypothermia was not their biggest worry.

Well I think we will find that THEORY and HYPOTHESIS and SPECULATION are all the same terms. Any way whatever you want to call it. I say it still lacks strength. We dont even know if the so called DEN was in fact a DEN. We dont know the exact sequence of events at the TENT and if any of the Group were already outside the TENT when the EVENT happened.
DB