September 17, 2019, 01:52:32 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Specific details  (Read 4326 times)

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August 24, 2019, 02:00:51 AM
Reply #120
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Star man

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Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.  This sounds odd to me.  The question is what does it mean?  Would the outer layer of skin be absent due to decomposition?  Doesn't sound like it should. 

Does it mean the bodies have been scrubbed to remove the outer skin layer and any radiation?

Regards

Star man

August 24, 2019, 04:32:37 AM
Reply #121
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Nigel Evans


Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.  This sounds odd to me.  The question is what does it mean?  Would the outer layer of skin be absent due to decomposition?  Doesn't sound like it should. 

Does it mean the bodies have been scrubbed to remove the outer skin layer and any radiation?

Regards

Star man
Decomposition works for me. Fits with explaining the loss of eyes and tongue.

August 24, 2019, 09:11:50 AM
Reply #122
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jarrfan


By my understanding, the epidermis is the outer layer of flesh that keeps moisture in the skin. If there is loss of the epidermis, it would  mean the skin was "drying out" as in the process of death/decomposition, but it happens as a course of death, not animal presence.

Jarrfan

August 24, 2019, 12:04:43 PM
Reply #123
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sarapuk

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Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.  This sounds odd to me.  The question is what does it mean?  Would the outer layer of skin be absent due to decomposition?  Doesn't sound like it should. 

Does it mean the bodies have been scrubbed to remove the outer skin layer and any radiation?

Regards

Star man

Excellent. Maybe this will help some of our Forum Members. Why do they talk of the absence of something rather than the decomposition of something  !  ?  It is highly likely that the reason is that we are not dealing with decomposition but the REMOVAL of the outer layer of skin by some other means. So what removed that skin  !  ? 
DB

August 24, 2019, 12:19:07 PM
Reply #124
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Loose}{Cannon

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All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 24, 2019, 01:38:48 PM
Reply #125
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Star man

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lol1



Lol like it.  There was no grater found with the bodies though.  The mystery deepens.

Regards

Star man

August 24, 2019, 01:41:00 PM
Reply #126
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.  This sounds odd to me.  The question is what does it mean?  Would the outer layer of skin be absent due to decomposition?  Doesn't sound like it should. 

Does it mean the bodies have been scrubbed to remove the outer skin layer and any radiation?

Regards

Star man

Excellent. Maybe this will help some of our Forum Members. Why do they talk of the absence of something rather than the decomposition of something  !  ?  It is highly likely that the reason is that we are not dealing with decomposition but the REMOVAL of the outer layer of skin by some other means. So what removed that skin  !  ?

Well it sounds like the outer layer of skin was removed to me.  Probably not with a grater though.  So how and by what?

What about potassium permanganate and sodium meta bisulphate?

Regards

Star man

August 24, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
Reply #127
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Loose}{Cannon

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Quote
Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.

Lest check it out.

Alexander Kolevatov (Autopsy Reports) http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=25.0

One statement about epidermis

Quote
the skin of the chest with the slipping of the surface layer of the epidermis.

Rotten skin slipping from body.... no conspiracy.



Nikolai Thibeaux (Autopsy Reports)  http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=23.0

Quote
Skin covers of the face, trunk and extremities of a greenish color with the sliding of the surface layer of the epidermis

Rotten GREEN skin sliding from body.... no conspiracy.



Semyon Zolotaryov (Autopsy Reports)  http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=26.0

Quote
The covers of the trunk and extremities are grayish-gray with the sliding of the surface layer of the skin-epidermis

Rotten GRAY skin sliding from body.... no conspiracy.



Lyudmila Dubinina (Autopsy Reports)   http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=27.0

Quote
________________________________________________________

^^^^^ not a single word about epidermis. 


What have we learned?   The key words are Slipping, and Sliding.

Reports due on my desk by 8am
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 03:32:11 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 24, 2019, 04:48:55 PM
Reply #128
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Star man

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August 24, 2019, 06:23:26 PM
Reply #129
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Loose}{Cannon

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The key words are Slipping, and Sliding.

If the skin is sliding off due to decomposition, would it not me absent in areas?   whacky1

What happened to Semyons mustache?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 25, 2019, 01:41:13 AM
Reply #130
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Star man

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The epidermis is specific to the outer layer of skin though not the whole skin tissue.

Regards

Star man
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 04:32:43 AM by Loose}{Cannon »

August 25, 2019, 04:32:55 AM
Reply #131
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Loose}{Cannon

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The epidermis is specific to the outer layer of skin though not the whole skin tissue.

Regards

Star man

and?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 25, 2019, 04:28:48 PM
Reply #132
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Star man

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I don't know whether the slipping and sliding is a part of the reason they refer to the epidermis being absent.

Regards

Star man

August 26, 2019, 09:05:50 PM
Reply #133
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jarrfan


I need to ask this question to verify the scene, with the den 65 feet from the ravine and prepared for four hikers, why were the four hikers found in a ravine?

If they got there themselves it seems it would be the worst place to try and survive if the stream was running with water? According to the maps, the hikers and the den were on the other side of the stream farther from the tent. So that means they had to cross the stream if it was frozen or wade through water if it was running? Why were they not in the den? Was the water frozen over in the ravine and the hikers did not know it was a stream? I am not sure why there was the den and then the hikers ended up in the ravine?

From their injuries I feel certain these hikers received their injuries at the ravine where their bodies were discovered. In the condition of their bodies they could not have dug, cut limbs, etc. at all.

Is there an answer for this that anyone is aware of?

Thanks for your assistance.... Jarrfan
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 09:28:44 PM by jarrfan »

August 26, 2019, 10:31:52 PM
Reply #134
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Star man

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I need to ask this question to verify the scene, with the den 65 feet from the ravine and prepared for four hikers, why were the four hikers found in a ravine?

If they got there themselves it seems it would be the worst place to try and survive if the stream was running with water? According to the maps, the hikers and the den were on the other side of the stream farther from the tent. So that means they had to cross the stream if it was frozen or wade through water if it was running? Why were they not in the den? Was the water frozen over in the ravine and the hikers did not know it was a stream? I am not sure why there was the den and then the hikers ended up in the ravine?

From their injuries I feel certain these hikers received their injuries at the ravine where their bodies were discovered. In the condition of their bodies they could not have dug, cut limbs, etc. at all.

Is there an answer for this that anyone is aware of?

Thanks for your assistance.... Jarrfan

Some good questions.  I don't think anyone other than the zdyatlov group knew for sure why they went to the ravine.  It was probably more sheltered from the wind.  It was also a better hiding place (probably), and it has been said that the snow was deeper there so easier to makes a shelter.

The stream was most probably frozen given the temperatures.  The water probably began to run as the average temperatures rose during spring and the melt water began to trickle off the mountains.

I think that you are probably correct about the injuries.  I doubt they could have travelled far, but the cedar is only 70 metres away so it may have been possible for someone to move them into the ravine.  I doubt this though personally.

Whether they build a proper snow den or just placed some branches and clothing down for insulation is another unknown.  WAB has been there and has done some research on this and concluded that it would be very difficult to dig a decent snow den with bare hands.

Regards

Star man

August 27, 2019, 05:32:01 AM
Reply #135
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Loose}{Cannon

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How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 27, 2019, 08:40:32 AM
Reply #136
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Star man

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How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?

How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?

Good question.  Didn’t a Mansi spot some broken fir trees?  Or did someone already know where they were?

Regards
Star man

August 27, 2019, 08:59:22 AM
Reply #137
Online

jarrfan


Thanks for your responses. I wonder why the Mansi was there in the first place? Was he commanded by the government to check on the site when the spring started, or was he just there being busy? He had to have known this was the scene of a devastation and key evidence might be popping up at any time and he needed to report this as soon as he saw it? There are questions here for me.

August 27, 2019, 11:53:02 AM
Reply #138
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Star man

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Thanks for your responses. I wonder why the Mansi was there in the first place? Was he commanded by the government to check on the site when the spring started, or was he just there being busy? He had to have known this was the scene of a devastation and key evidence might be popping up at any time and he needed to report this as soon as he saw it? There are questions here for me.

They were probably hired, but I don't know for sure.

Regards

Star man

August 27, 2019, 12:04:50 PM
Reply #139
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sarapuk

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DB

August 27, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
Reply #140
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sarapuk

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Quote
Just a thought on the histological elimination of the rav 4 in the case files:

In all cases the report talks of the absence or complete absence of the epidermis.

Lest check it out.

Alexander Kolevatov (Autopsy Reports) http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=25.0

One statement about epidermis

Quote
the skin of the chest with the slipping of the surface layer of the epidermis.

Rotten skin slipping from body.... no conspiracy.



Nikolai Thibeaux (Autopsy Reports)  http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=23.0

Quote
Skin covers of the face, trunk and extremities of a greenish color with the sliding of the surface layer of the epidermis

Rotten GREEN skin sliding from body.... no conspiracy.



Semyon Zolotaryov (Autopsy Reports)  http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=26.0

Quote
The covers of the trunk and extremities are grayish-gray with the sliding of the surface layer of the skin-epidermis

Rotten GRAY skin sliding from body.... no conspiracy.



Lyudmila Dubinina (Autopsy Reports)   http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=27.0

Quote
________________________________________________________

^^^^^ not a single word about epidermis. 


What have we learned?   The key words are Slipping, and Sliding.

Reports due on my desk by 8am

Slipping and Sliding  !  ?  But there is nothing about that in the Reports. 
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:09:47 PM
Reply #141
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sarapuk

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I don't know whether the slipping and sliding is a part of the reason they refer to the epidermis being absent.

Regards

Star man

If it was then surely they would have said so  !  ?  So I do not believe in the Slipping and Sliding Theory in this matter.
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:11:38 PM
Reply #142
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sarapuk

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How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?

Well it did take many weeks of searching.  They didnt just go out one day and get lucky.
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
Reply #143
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sarapuk

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How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?

How the searchers walk out into the tundra and know exactly where to dig ONE small hole and find the den?

Good question.  Didn’t a Mansi spot some broken fir trees?  Or did someone already know where they were?

Regards
Star man

No, it took many weeks of searching.
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:13:00 PM
Reply #144
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
They specifically stated the skin was slipping/sliding, and your telling me you don't believe in it. 

Interesting
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 27, 2019, 12:14:55 PM
Reply #145
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sarapuk

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Thanks for your responses. I wonder why the Mansi was there in the first place? Was he commanded by the government to check on the site when the spring started, or was he just there being busy? He had to have known this was the scene of a devastation and key evidence might be popping up at any time and he needed to report this as soon as he saw it? There are questions here for me.

Well lets think about it thus.  The local Tribe, THE MANSI, would know the area better than anyone else, so who better to ask for help in the SEARCH.
DB

August 27, 2019, 12:15:03 PM
Reply #146
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Loose}{Cannon

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Quote
No, it took many weeks of searching

yup....  but they dug ONE hole and hit the jackpot dead-nuts on a few twigs.    I smell fish
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

August 29, 2019, 07:26:40 PM
Reply #147
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PghRunner


I've been debating body position tonight, specifically, Igor Dyatlov.  I tried to find if it was debated elsewhere in the forum, but didn't see it--if it has, just point me in that direction!

My question is: why is Dyatlov on his back?  More specifically: if we take the official investigation as is, if we eliminate all the other theories/conspiracies/whatever, and say, yes, these kids all just died of low temperature, how can we explain the position of Dyatlov's body?  For example, Zina is found on her side, in the fetal position almost.  I can understand this attributed to her just collapsing, and huddling up to try and save the last bits of warmth she had.  Similar with Rustik: he dies where he fell, too overcome with (in this example) cold to pick himself back up.  You've got the ice because this was Rustik pushed to his limit.  The Yuris positioning, with their arms over their heads...I can attribute that to maybe someone pulling off their warmer layers of clothes and taking them in a last ditch effort to survive.

But Dyatlov is on his back, arms partially raised.  Honestly, to me it looks like how I might hold my arms up if someone was pulling me backwards.  Pulling backwards, pushing away...his position just seems less natural than the rest--if you can call anything about this case natural.

I don't think it's fair to put the Rav4 under the same scrutiny, only because it's hard to tell if their ultimate position upon discovery is because that was the position when they died, or the way the river pushed them.

I'm not really trying to suggest any theory.  I'm just puzzled why his position is on his back.  Upon first glance, he doesn't look like someone who died from low temperature.  He looks like someone who put up a fight and lost.  Again, I'm comparing that position to positioning like Zina, who looks positioned like she fell and naturally landed that way.

Thoughts?  I'm really curious on this tonight.  I'm not really sure why.
We're all stories in the end....so make it a good one, eh?

August 29, 2019, 11:34:25 PM
Reply #148
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I've been debating body position tonight, specifically, Igor Dyatlov.  I tried to find if it was debated elsewhere in the forum, but didn't see it--if it has, just point me in that direction!

My question is: why is Dyatlov on his back?  More specifically: if we take the official investigation as is, if we eliminate all the other theories/conspiracies/whatever, and say, yes, these kids all just died of low temperature, how can we explain the position of Dyatlov's body?  For example, Zina is found on her side, in the fetal position almost.  I can understand this attributed to her just collapsing, and huddling up to try and save the last bits of warmth she had.  Similar with Rustik: he dies where he fell, too overcome with (in this example) cold to pick himself back up.  You've got the ice because this was Rustik pushed to his limit.  The Yuris positioning, with their arms over their heads...I can attribute that to maybe someone pulling off their warmer layers of clothes and taking them in a last ditch effort to survive.

But Dyatlov is on his back, arms partially raised.  Honestly, to me it looks like how I might hold my arms up if someone was pulling me backwards.  Pulling backwards, pushing away...his position just seems less natural than the rest--if you can call anything about this case natural.

I don't think it's fair to put the Rav4 under the same scrutiny, only because it's hard to tell if their ultimate position upon discovery is because that was the position when they died, or the way the river pushed them.

I'm not really trying to suggest any theory.  I'm just puzzled why his position is on his back.  Upon first glance, he doesn't look like someone who died from low temperature.  He looks like someone who put up a fight and lost.  Again, I'm comparing that position to positioning like Zina, who looks positioned like she fell and naturally landed that way.

Thoughts?  I'm really curious on this tonight.  I'm not really sure why.

It’s interesting yes, but Dyatlov bladder had urine levels consistent with hypothermia and no other life threatening injury. 

Regards
Star man

August 30, 2019, 12:03:38 AM
Reply #149
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cennetkusu


I think the unknown coercive force is very selective when killing young people. For example, two Yuri Tibo were soft in killing Dytlov and Zinaya ... But he was hard in the others. Because he might have found them harder and colder ...
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 12:10:53 AM by cennetkusu »
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