August 21, 2019, 04:40:38 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: What if a snow glide happened in the ravine?  (Read 754 times)

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February 07, 2019, 12:00:15 PM
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sug2h


Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?

February 07, 2019, 12:45:42 PM
Reply #1
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sarapuk

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Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?

I think you will find that this theory has popped up in other Posts. We dont even know if it was a Den. It would have had to have been one hell of an avalanche etc to cause those injuries to DUBININA.
DB

February 07, 2019, 02:22:13 PM
Reply #2
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Dominov


Here is the ravine slope and its inclination (green). A mild little slope, nothing more. The wavy shape of the ravine stabilizes the snow in it. Decide for yourself.





February 07, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
Reply #3
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?

It's unlikely.  WAB posted some pictures of the slope near where the bodies were found.  There is a fair steep localised drop at about 40 degrees.  However the body positions are not consistent with being hit by an avalanche IMO.

February 07, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
Reply #4
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Puchiko


I think you will find that this theory has popped up in other Posts. We dont even know if it was a Den. It would have had to have been one hell of an avalanche etc to cause those injuries to DUBININA.

I agree with your conclusion regarding Ludmila's injuries - but what else would be than a den? The den appears in all descriptions of the incident, so I've always taken it as fact, although as I'm checking the evidence, all that's photographed are the branches and clothes - was it a cavity when found or was it filled by snow by then?

February 07, 2019, 03:56:51 PM
Reply #5
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
This is of course, if you believe that snow always falls and accumulates evenly and wind never creates things such as snow-drifts or snow-banks.  How do you know just how high/deep the west bank of the ravine was on Feb 2nd 1959?
 

Askinadzi and Suvorov on the slope of Otorten - photo archive Vladimir Askinadzi

All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

February 07, 2019, 04:09:59 PM
Reply #6
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This is of course, if you believe that snow always falls and accumulates evenly and wind never creates things such as snow-drifts or snow-banks.  How do you know just how high/deep the west bank of the ravine was on Feb 2nd 1959?
 

Askinadzi and Suvorov on the slope of Otorten - photo archive Vladimir Askinadzi



They are standing at a much higher altitude than the Ravine though. And that mass of snow below them would have not accumulated at the Ravine. And even a mass of snow like that is unlikely to have caused the serious injuries to DUBININA. Many survivors of avalanches having been thrown under such masses of snow and have come out relatively unharmed.
DB

February 07, 2019, 04:54:30 PM
Reply #7
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

February 07, 2019, 09:17:37 PM
Reply #8
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sug2h


was it a cavity when found or was it filled by snow by then?

it was filled with snow

February 07, 2019, 11:48:44 PM
Reply #9
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Monika


Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?


The theory of snow hitting them is contradicted by the fact that the Zolotarev camera around his neck was staying intact (only film was damaged by water). How is it possible that a large mass of snow will cause severe injuries like broken ribs and the camera placed just a little higher (on the neck) is undamaged? And he had a notebook and a pencil in his hand, it also contradicts the snow hitting as well as the fall from tree.

February 08, 2019, 02:30:43 AM
Reply #10
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Puchiko


The theory of snow hitting them is contradicted by the fact that the Zolotarev camera around his neck was staying intact (only film was damaged by water). How is it possible that a large mass of snow will cause severe injuries like broken ribs and the camera placed just a little higher (on the neck) is undamaged? And he had a notebook and a pencil in his hand, it also contradicts the snow hitting as well as the fall from tree.

I agree about the camera, but the existence of the notepad is disputed. The only evidence we have for it is Askinadzi's recent letter to Ural Pathfinder magazine. The whereabouts of the notepad are unknown, it was never filed in evidence or seen by anyone else.

February 09, 2019, 06:33:49 PM
Reply #11
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sug2h


And he had a notebook and a pencil in his hand, it also contradicts the snow hitting as well as the fall from tree.

And what if he was first hit by the snow, and then, knowing he was about to die, he asked his friends to give him a notepad in order to write a note to his family?

Does anybody know which type of camera it was?

February 10, 2019, 12:12:59 AM
Reply #12
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
The camera is on a lanyard and able to swing freely.  We don't know its position prior to removing him from the creek, nor where it was located during the impact. 

The notebook was in his pocket, and his hands were in his pocket.  He wasn't found with a notepad clutched in his hand flapping around in the water for months. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

February 10, 2019, 04:22:28 AM
Reply #13
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Monika


The camera is on a lanyard and able to swing freely.  We don't know its position prior to removing him from the creek, nor where it was located during the impact. 

The notebook was in his pocket, and his hands were in his pocket.  He wasn't found with a notepad clutched in his hand flapping around in the water for months.

He was found with his camera around his neck directly after finding of his body  confirmed  the photo from the crime scene available on internet.  He had to have camera during the injury. After being badly injured, it would be pointless to put a camera around his neck. Why? He did not have the chance to survive, and he had to suffer terrible pains. And someone would lift his head to give him a camera around his neck ?

February 10, 2019, 07:45:36 AM
Reply #14
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
He had to have camera during the injury.

Who said the camera wasn't around his neck via the lanyard?

Why would anyone think this camera is BOLTED to his chest and not capable of swinging somewhere other then that position in freefall or similar? 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 AM by Loose}{Cannon »
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

February 16, 2019, 01:00:42 PM
Reply #15
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sarapuk

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I think you will find that this theory has popped up in other Posts. We dont even know if it was a Den. It would have had to have been one hell of an avalanche etc to cause those injuries to DUBININA.

I agree with your conclusion regarding Ludmila's injuries - but what else would be than a den? The den appears in all descriptions of the incident, so I've always taken it as fact, although as I'm checking the evidence, all that's photographed are the branches and clothes - was it a cavity when found or was it filled by snow by then?

All we know is that a search party dug down and eventually found a sort of platform. But does this small platform indicate a DEN  !  ?  I dont see any indications of it being a DEN or CAVITY.
DB