August 26, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Evening Otorten №1  (Read 1906 times)

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February 18, 2019, 11:42:59 AM
Reply #30
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UJ


This may belong somewhere else - but it's building off of the Otorten.  Right now, it isn't near a complete theory, but food for thought:

1) Tourist sledge - was this an actual object, or imaginary?
     a) they mentioned possibly bringing it with them on the train, or dragging it via horse - but maybe they were saying "that's all it
         would have been good for" - I don't see it in any pics, or mentioned in diaries until the Otorten.
     b) they say it is useless...seems like they tried it?  maybe after they noticed the "sledge-deer trail" on January 30, they thought it
         would be a good method?  they were obviously struggling and trying new things to get through the snow - Dyatlov writes about
         trying to send a guy forward without a backpack to create a track, but it still was clearly slow-going.  Maybe that's why they
         took the route with less trees and obstacles, hoping that being able to drag the gear would make it worth it?
     c) "chief constructor com.Kolevatov" (or maybe they found one discarded near the Mansi storage and Kol. repaired it for their
         purposes) - definitely seems like it was something real, and that they tried but didn't like - but it wasn't mentioned in any
         inventory?  I'm suggesting Kol. made it for their Feb1 hike while the others built their storage
2) Many times, the chest injuries are compared to an automobile accident - high speed with a brutal and immediate stop.


So...the tent was set up, and while some folks wrote "Evening Otorten", the others (we know that many in the group liked to laugh and have fun and goof around a little bit) thought they would ride the sledge down the hill before eating dinner.  The first trip didn't go far - maybe 400m, but it packed some snow.  The second trip was Semyon in back, for weight (camera around his neck, but on his back, since he was leaning forward against Lyuda), Lyuda in the middle, and Rustik steering up front.  They found better snow and ended up sliding faster and farther than expected.  They lost control and crashed into the Ravine that they didn't realize was there.  Rustik saw the danger first and tried to jump clear, but struck his head.  Lyuda took the full brunt, partially shielding Semyon, but not enough to save him.

Semyon and Lyuda were immobilized, but Rustik in a state of shock was able to hike/crawl a ways towards the tent before succumbing to his head injury.

Some of the crew watched from the top of the hill, and realized something was wrong.  They called to whoever else was in the tent, and went downhill to help (quickly but not running, because they were cautious of unknown ledges at various spots of the hill).  They found their friends in worse shape than expected.  They tried to save them, then tried to comfort them, and decided too late to return to the tent.  They may not have known exactly where the tent was, hence climbing the tree to try to spot it.


Maybe it's worth thinking about?  I'm sure a few of you will have some quick evidence to tear into the theory right away...I'll start:

1) everybody we see in pics of the final hike still is wearing a backpack - did they give up on the sledge already, but dragged it along anyway?
2) how did the Yuris still apparently die early enough that the others borrowed their clothes?

February 18, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
Reply #31
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I'm not sure, but bears should have been in hibernation at that time.   But maybe there's a few species native to Russia that don't hibernate, like the polar bear.  Possible I suppose.   Too bad there wasn't somebody a little more familiar with Russia here.

There are members on this site who are familiar with Russia.  Certain Bears in Russia will come out of hibernation and roam around and they can be very aggressive.
DB

February 18, 2019, 12:09:57 PM
Reply #32
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
This may belong somewhere else - but it's building off of the Otorten.  Right now, it isn't near a complete theory, but food for thought:

1) Tourist sledge - was this an actual object, or imaginary?
     a) they mentioned possibly bringing it with them on the train, or dragging it via horse - but maybe they were saying "that's all it
         would have been good for" - I don't see it in any pics, or mentioned in diaries until the Otorten.
     b) they say it is useless...seems like they tried it?  maybe after they noticed the "sledge-deer trail" on January 30, they thought it
         would be a good method?  they were obviously struggling and trying new things to get through the snow - Dyatlov writes about
         trying to send a guy forward without a backpack to create a track, but it still was clearly slow-going.  Maybe that's why they
         took the route with less trees and obstacles, hoping that being able to drag the gear would make it worth it?
     c) "chief constructor com.Kolevatov" (or maybe they found one discarded near the Mansi storage and Kol. repaired it for their
         purposes) - definitely seems like it was something real, and that they tried but didn't like - but it wasn't mentioned in any
         inventory?  I'm suggesting Kol. made it for their Feb1 hike while the others built their storage
2) Many times, the chest injuries are compared to an automobile accident - high speed with a brutal and immediate stop.


So...the tent was set up, and while some folks wrote "Evening Otorten", the others (we know that many in the group liked to laugh and have fun and goof around a little bit) thought they would ride the sledge down the hill before eating dinner.  The first trip didn't go far - maybe 400m, but it packed some snow.  The second trip was Semyon in back, for weight (camera around his neck, but on his back, since he was leaning forward against Lyuda), Lyuda in the middle, and Rustik steering up front.  They found better snow and ended up sliding faster and farther than expected.  They lost control and crashed into the Ravine that they didn't realize was there.  Rustik saw the danger first and tried to jump clear, but struck his head.  Lyuda took the full brunt, partially shielding Semyon, but not enough to save him.

Semyon and Lyuda were immobilized, but Rustik in a state of shock was able to hike/crawl a ways towards the tent before succumbing to his head injury.

Some of the crew watched from the top of the hill, and realized something was wrong.  They called to whoever else was in the tent, and went downhill to help (quickly but not running, because they were cautious of unknown ledges at various spots of the hill).  They found their friends in worse shape than expected.  They tried to save them, then tried to comfort them, and decided too late to return to the tent.  They may not have known exactly where the tent was, hence climbing the tree to try to spot it.


Maybe it's worth thinking about?  I'm sure a few of you will have some quick evidence to tear into the theory right away...I'll start:

1) everybody we see in pics of the final hike still is wearing a backpack - did they give up on the sledge already, but dragged it along anyway?
2) how did the Yuris still apparently die early enough that the others borrowed their clothes?

Given the weather conditions, i e, very severe, and the evidence from their Diaries, it is highly unlikely they are going to play around as you have suggested. And how do you explain the partly clothed bodies, with clothing and equipment needed for survival still in the Tent  !  ?
DB

February 18, 2019, 12:31:53 PM
Reply #33
Offline

UJ




Given the weather conditions, i e, very severe, and the evidence from their Diaries, it is highly unlikely they are going to play around as you have suggested. And how do you explain the partly clothed bodies, with clothing and equipment needed for survival still in the Tent  !  ?

This theory would assume that the snow and wind had eased before dusk, and that some of the hikers were dressed more lightly because they thought they were just hanging around the tent, but when they realized their friends had crashed and needed help, they didn't delay to go down the hill.  They underestimated how hard it would be to help their friends up back up the slope, and as Akselrod suggests, they may have thought the boots would make it harder to go up and down the slope, so they left those behind.  The other various states of clothes, well, I haven't gotten that far yet in figuring how the orders of death would make sense.  I agree it's a little tricky here.

If you think you're going to help a friend with a broken leg climb a hill, you don't need a knife.

My biggest question is, if the sledge existed (which it seems very reasonable to think) then where did it end up?

My biggest problem is that it's hard to imagine a homemade sledge sliding down so quickly (I understand the difference between a "sledge" and a "sled"), unless it was very well built, and they hit a patch of packed snow or ice unexpectedly.

February 18, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Reply #34
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Puchiko


Yuri Yudin returned with the sled to Vizhay on January 28th. See case files :)

February 18, 2019, 12:56:02 PM
Reply #35
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UJ


Yuri Yudin returned with the sled to Vizhay on January 28th. See case files :)

 bang1 I was afraid of that - do you remember where that's noted?  I'm not finding it.

February 18, 2019, 02:12:31 PM
Reply #36
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Puchiko


Yuri Yudin returned with the sled to Vizhay on January 28th. See case files :)

 bang1 I was afraid of that - do you remember where that's noted?  I'm not finding it.
It's noted in the reference timeline, but I can't find the primary source right now. You were right to fact check me :) !
https://dyatlovpass.com/page.php?language_id=1&id=12786#timeline


February 18, 2019, 02:17:41 PM
Reply #37
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Puchiko


Here's a picture of the sled.


February 18, 2019, 02:32:10 PM
Reply #38
Offline

UJ


Here's a picture of the sled.


I thought that was Uncle Slava's sled?  Maybe that's my confusion.  I was thinking that Kolevatov put together something a bit smaller that could have been reasonably expected to be pulled by hikers (more like, a few smooth logs as runners, and rope).  I guess that's the joke of why it's no good for the hikers to pull it themselves.

February 18, 2019, 02:34:05 PM
Reply #39
Offline

UJ


Here's a picture of the sled.


I thought that was Uncle Slava's sled?  Maybe that's my confusion.  I was thinking that Kolevatov put together something a bit smaller that could have been reasonably expected to be pulled by hikers (more like, a few smooth logs as runners, and rope).  I guess that's the joke of why it's no good for the hikers to pull it themselves.

like this, but more rustic: 


February 18, 2019, 05:14:37 PM
Reply #40
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Here's a picture of the sled.


I thought that was Uncle Slava's sled?  Maybe that's my confusion.  I was thinking that Kolevatov put together something a bit smaller that could have been reasonably expected to be pulled by hikers (more like, a few smooth logs as runners, and rope).  I guess that's the joke of why it's no good for the hikers to pull it themselves.

But do really think that they would play around in the snow given the known weather conditions and Diary entries  !  ? 
DB

February 18, 2019, 08:17:36 PM
Reply #41
Offline

UJ


Here's a picture of the sled.


I thought that was Uncle Slava's sled?  Maybe that's my confusion.  I was thinking that Kolevatov put together something a bit smaller that could have been reasonably expected to be pulled by hikers (more like, a few smooth logs as runners, and rope).  I guess that's the joke of why it's no good for the hikers to pull it themselves.

But do really think that they would play around in the snow given the known weather conditions and Diary entries  !  ?

Nope.












March 30, 2019, 06:52:33 PM
Reply #42
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Nordlander


Just a point of fact in response to speculation that Yuri Yudin may have been involved in some intrigue with the women: he was gay.

As far as standing guard while camping, outdoor survival skills in the 50s and all the way into the 70s when I learned then were based on WWII military practice. The "den" is pretty much a textbook standard. I remember standing guard not looking for any particular thing but because that was the way it was done. I have wondered, though, if the blurry photo was NOT of Tibo taking a pee but of someone they caught watching them in the woods. The blurriness suggests they snapped it quickly, and the man's position suggests he didn't want to be photographed. They joked about his being a Menk in "The Evening Otorten" to ease the tension and to laugh it off. But I have wondered whether they put the tent on a slope so they could have a view of something or someone they had been watching--or that they suspected of watching them.

Bear will come out of hibernation if they haven't consumed enough food for the winter, and they will start foraging. They are generally pretty dopey when they emerge, though.

March 31, 2019, 02:03:17 AM
Reply #43
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Puchiko


Just a point of fact in response to speculation that Yuri Yudin may have been involved in some intrigue with the women: he was gay.

Do we have a source for this :) ?

April 01, 2019, 11:47:50 AM
Reply #44
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Here's a picture of the sled.


I thought that was Uncle Slava's sled?  Maybe that's my confusion.  I was thinking that Kolevatov put together something a bit smaller that could have been reasonably expected to be pulled by hikers (more like, a few smooth logs as runners, and rope).  I guess that's the joke of why it's no good for the hikers to pull it themselves.

But do really think that they would play around in the snow given the known weather conditions and Diary entries  !  ?

Nope.












The photos you have Posted are before they got to their final campsite  !  ?  Weather conditions may have deteriorated considerably by then  !  ? 
DB

April 01, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
Reply #45
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just a point of fact in response to speculation that Yuri Yudin may have been involved in some intrigue with the women: he was gay.

As far as standing guard while camping, outdoor survival skills in the 50s and all the way into the 70s when I learned then were based on WWII military practice. The "den" is pretty much a textbook standard. I remember standing guard not looking for any particular thing but because that was the way it was done. I have wondered, though, if the blurry photo was NOT of Tibo taking a pee but of someone they caught watching them in the woods. The blurriness suggests they snapped it quickly, and the man's position suggests he didn't want to be photographed. They joked about his being a Menk in "The Evening Otorten" to ease the tension and to laugh it off. But I have wondered whether they put the tent on a slope so they could have a view of something or someone they had been watching--or that they suspected of watching them.

Bear will come out of hibernation if they haven't consumed enough food for the winter, and they will start foraging. They are generally pretty dopey when they emerge, though.
 


What about Camera shake  !  ?  Have you never taken photos that came out a bit blurred because you moved a bit  !  ?  If you thought you were being watched or followed through the woods you may decide to camp well away from those woods, then again you may be that concerned that you decided to leave the area completely. Those big Russian Bears that wake up out of hibernation suddenly can actually be very aggressive.
DB

April 14, 2019, 11:44:48 PM
Reply #46
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In the evening I torrent there is an entry about an Armenian quite.  What do you think is the humour in this entry?

Regards
Star man

April 15, 2019, 04:26:52 AM
Reply #47
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
In the evening I torrent there is an entry about an Armenian quite.  What do you think is the humour in this entry?

Regards
Star man

The joys of predictive text and auto spelling correction  bang1

Should say evening Otorten and Armenian Quiz.
Regards
Star man