October 22, 2019, 01:57:01 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Elk(s) attack  (Read 4435 times)

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April 11, 2019, 02:13:04 PM
Reply #90

Radim

Guest

April 11, 2019, 03:37:21 PM
Reply #91

Radim

Guest
Sarapuk,
do you know what is this from the crime scene area?


I will rather give ownanswer.
.......the elks horns  dunno1

April 11, 2019, 04:06:54 PM
Reply #92
Offline

Ehtnisba



April 11, 2019, 04:15:15 PM
Reply #93

Radim

Guest
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=399.0

Yes, from this topic I took the picture.
Im concered to "rorszach test" for Sarapuk - maybe he see only the branches and he probably dont see the horns.

Maybe the psychologist could replace the "rorszach test" by "dyatlavov test" (Which is in my opinion much easier than "Rorszachs")

April 12, 2019, 03:02:07 AM
Reply #94

Radim

Guest
Picture no3 correction (laying body)







April 12, 2019, 03:03:56 AM
Reply #95

Radim

Guest
original:



April 12, 2019, 03:51:00 AM
Reply #96
Offline

Ehtnisba




Nobody says there are no elks in Urals.... There are bears, foxes, deer, mice ,wolverines too.. But what the animal kingdom has to do with the tragedy?
This is a mansi chum, it is explained what it is in the topic under the photo if you read it. This is a place where reindeer is killed or sacrifised . Mansi build those chums including the antlers of the killed deer. And the antlers used in the said chum are moose antlers, not elks by the way:


upload images

April 12, 2019, 03:59:43 AM
Reply #97
Offline

Morski


In all of posts there are only three people who were acquisition for me.
Ehtnisba and hardheaded Teddy, because of their disprove point of flashlight in one of our pictures.
And Морски  who told us that was 42% of Moon visibility - good light conditions. Based on Морски point I decided to edit the photos in Corell draw.

Hi again, Radim.
Both Teddy (why hardheaded, she just explained a fact?!) and Ehtnisba stressed on that same fact, that you are looking at a very small fractions of the entire frame. You know, that your interpretation of the strange lines and shapes do not represent a whole frame, and so - not a whole photo. That is the reason why we can question your interpretation of seeing elks or bodies.
As for my argument about the moon, I mean that it was relatively dark, of course not so dark, that Dyatlovs group was not able to see, because they can get used to the darkness, but too dark to make photos with the Zorky camera without a good additional source of light. If we stick to the elk theory, and the possibility that someone was actually photoing the animals, that means that he must have used flashlight to focus on the animals or bodies, which I find hard to imagine given the context.
And so I think that most of the photos are the result of damaged film. On the other hand, your theory about surprising attack sounds plausible, but we can argue if it was performed by animals or humans :)

Regards 

April 12, 2019, 04:48:19 AM
Reply #98

Radim

Guest
On the pictures there is something. They were taken. It is not just a damaged film. And I cannot see any reason why one person can make pictures and make pictures in one time.

I see there an elk and I would like to know if somebody will say what he see at this pictures something. Everybody has some imagination and must be able to describe something what see.
If I will want to make photo of criminal I doubt he will not let me immortalize him in photo when I will mark him by flashlight. And after all he will let the camera at place... HOwever some criminals has freezing inteligence status so it is also possible.

Im open if somebody will give me a facts which make sence to say: "Ok, It could be a Gulag killer, or UFO" But my problem is, that every, and every mentioned theory I can break in a minute.
Just not the elks.



April 12, 2019, 04:54:51 AM
Reply #99

Radim

Guest
And you can trust me, if you will say that on the picture is a man carring a gun and I will recognize it from pictures, than I will not say: "No, it is elk!"
No...

I will just say "Ok, I see also, lets go and think about new theory"

April 12, 2019, 05:20:55 AM
Reply #100
Offline

gypsy


And you can trust me, if you will say that on the picture is a man carring a gun and I will recognize it from pictures, than I will not say: "No, it is elk!"
No...

I will just say "Ok, I see also, lets go and think about new theory"

The picture you are referring to is a small part of frame on the side so completely out of focus. It is not anything the person with camera was looking at directly. I am afraid it is impossible to say sure without original negatives considering the relatively poor quality of the pictures. Still the Elk attack is possible along with other possibilities.

April 12, 2019, 05:23:11 AM
Reply #101
Offline

Morski


There is something, that is obvious, and that is the defected film. I fail to understand why are you still referring to a tiny fragment of a very small frame of a film from a 1950s camera, and how can this prove anything? Especially if we only use imagination to see anything from those frames. People tend to see what fits their perceptions and ideas. That makes me think, that imagination is not enough from a practical point of view. Even the Yeti photo looks more convincing (im joking of course). And saying, that you can break all other theories in a minute is a bald statement, especially when your own theory is based on a few badly visible hoofs in the snow on just one photo, and some dirty pants, where you claim to see hairs from elk. Everything else is pure speculation, which we see more or less in any other theory.
I don`t see how yours is more relevant by any means. But anyway. Good luck, Radim!

April 12, 2019, 07:52:14 AM
Reply #102

Radim

Guest
You've probably only captured text and initial thought from that theory.


The primary point of my interest in this matter was not the death of a nine-member group. I'll be honest with you, but those students are not interesting for me. I was interested since begin in Zolotaryev ... Analysis of what he did or didn't do right.

Now I'll be a little open to you. Maybe it will help someone to understand this theory better.

Zolotaryov was an SOF scaut, just like me who fought in the war, just like me. And he survived war, just like me. Of course, Zolotaryov fought in a much more challenging and difficult war than Afghanistan and he had to be much more experienced than any modern SOF scout or me.

SOF scouts are a bit different people, but I don't want to demonize them. But be honest with yourself.

SOF Scouts are people who are selected by a specific personality and psychological profile. In most cases, these guys are unreadable introverts. But very friendly and decent/polite. On the other hand, they are people who can change their personality and aggression very quickly according the situation. They are very adaptable people. "From angel can became a killing machine".

They are people who have to be able to adapt very quickly and evaluate the situation. They are people who must be highly intelligent.
Its based on fact of working in small groups of 2-4 people for a long time without any logistical or combat security. They must rely solely on themselves. They are people who are usually not afraid of nature and natural phenomena, nor are they afraid of people.

They are people who must be able to quickly break out of contact or destroy an enemy in the event of a combat contact with a mechanized platoon (about 20-30 soldiers). Yes 2-4 soldiers against 20-30 ordinary soldiers. SOF Scouts are the elite of every ground army, and their activity for the enemy always means concern. Because to eliminate SOF scaut is always a little bit difficult than eliminate common combat soldier especially of common-civilian people.

In history, such small groups were able to destroy entire mechanized companies by ambush in a very short time. It is due to their profile from which everything unfolds.

SOF Scouts are very bright and attentive people, as information collection is their mission. Sometimes I think that life-mission. They are simply inquisitive and therefore, in my opinion, Zolotaryov has taken pictures during the accident. And I admit that although I would never want to suffer the situation like him, and I would have the chance, then I would probably also take pictures. Since his personality profile is likely to be similar to mine.

SOF Scouts are people who perceive death situations and wounds situations differently than ordinary - civilian people. Because they even saw that death. And Zolotaryov must have seen death in the past. And probably he also caused death to somebody - to German soldier. SOF scouts are specific to their humor (especially black humor).

It is not important if you are a scout from the USA, Russia, Bulgaria or Germany, you will always have a very similar psychological profile. In other words, you will think similarly if not the same way. Does not matter if you are a Scout in 1940 or a modern scout. The basis of SOF scout is hidden movement in nature with information collecting combat tasks. And nature has not changed in the last few thousand years.

Being a SOF Scout means going through a tough psychological selection. The score in our army was often 2: 207, and it was still from already combat soldier pre-selection. This means that the chance that a civilian will become a SOF Scout only by a psychological profile is about 1: 600. Maybe (circa). And that's not to mention the hellish physical selection process. Then I can say that Scout will became every 1: 700-800 civilian. If someone goes through the psychological profile of the SOF Scout, then it is more probably that his mind power will force him to overcome the physical pain in the selection process. That is why ithe score is higher. That's why I mentioned also the Rorszach test here and my arrogant allusions to Sarapuk.

Zolotaryov in my opinion really photographed elk and freeze as the last. Zolotaryov was the one who decided and built the base nearby the cedar. He pulled down 75m deeper into the forest for just because of safety. - typical scout decision - never stay at the edge of the forest. Hide yourself! A normal man would settle down and burrow near the cedar, especially when they were already spreading fire. Zolotaryev was the best dressed! Just because of his calm in this situation. Zolotaryov thougs were racional like an every SOF scout.

I come to my theory only by analyzing Zolotaryov's behavior, which, as I say, was very similar to my or other SOF scout.

I will not call it as "Dyatlavov expedition", but "Zolotaryevs expedion" . Zolotaryov was the strongest and most experienced article of the whole expedition, who gave orders at a critical moments. Dyatlavov was just a 23? years old guy with any life experiences, the same like other students.

On the first picture is me (modern scout), on the second scout from 1940 :)
Btw. the baby in the photo is not mine: D

You can see on pictures that for 70 years is everything the same.   loco1 bat1




April 12, 2019, 08:03:57 AM
Reply #103
Offline

gypsy



Zolotaryov in my opinion really photographed elk and freeze as the last. Zolotaryov was the one who decided and built the base nearby the cedar. He pulled down 75m deeper into the forest for just because of safety. - typical scout decision - never stay at the edge of the forest. Hide yourself! A normal man would settle down and burrow near the cedar, especially when they were already spreading fire. Zolotaryev was the best dressed! Just because of his calm in this situation. Zolotaryov thougs were racional like an every SOF scout.


If Semyon indeed photographed an elk, wouldn't it be in the middle of the picture rather than on the edge of the photo film, out of focus and not in the place of direct light from the lens?

April 12, 2019, 08:24:39 AM
Reply #104

Radim

Guest

Zolotaryov in my opinion really photographed elk and freeze as the last. Zolotaryov was the one who decided and built the base nearby the cedar. He pulled down 75m deeper into the forest for just because of safety. - typical scout decision - never stay at the edge of the forest. Hide yourself! A normal man would settle down and burrow near the cedar, especially when they were already spreading fire. Zolotaryev was the best dressed! Just because of his calm in this situation. Zolotaryov thougs were racional like an every SOF scout.


If Semyon indeed photographed an elk, wouldn't it be in the middle of the picture rather than on the edge of the photo film, out of focus and not in the place of direct light from the lens?

It is hard to say. You can be lucky and you can catch the object directly in the middle. Also of running or flying object.
It is not important point for me.

April 12, 2019, 08:31:16 AM
Reply #105

Radim

Guest
Do you really all of you think that picture no 8) "Horn"
is just a destroyed film negative?

You really dont see there anything suspicious?

Please tell me at least somebody you see there something. (UFO, grenade, train, aircraft, building, etc, does not matter, but something)
damn!
but dont tell me that it is just a destroyed film negative without any scenario.

April 12, 2019, 08:34:19 AM
Reply #106

Radim

Guest
Watch for all the things as a global. Not as a part.
Also in your life, not only in Dyatlavov topics.


Use your inteligence. Use your minds.

April 12, 2019, 08:37:57 AM
Reply #107

Radim

Guest
On two pictures are repeated diagonal shapes.

It is very unlikely that this is caused by film damage.

You really dont understand the objects connections?

April 12, 2019, 08:44:05 AM
Reply #108

Radim

Guest
I really start to think that I will not continue in this theory, because we are not on the "same way".

Will be better, when I'll leave this theory to myself. Just in my minds.

I uncrypt the rest of those photos and put together the axis of their move.
But it makes no sense to publish it, especially here.

It would be better if you stayed in your locked thoughts.


April 12, 2019, 09:04:20 AM
Reply #109

Radim

Guest
By the way, have you catched some similar face body parts between modern scout and Soviet 1940 scout?
.....the same shapes of nose  lol2

probably also bodies constitutions will be similar :D  thumb1

April 12, 2019, 10:29:38 AM
Reply #110

Radim

Guest
Maybe one of my last post on this theory, but I'll try to describe how I would probably react in this situation as a SOF scout.
Although I neglect one important input factor and that is hypothermia. On the other hand, I've experienced a lot. I have successfully completed the most dificult course in the army - KOMANDO course,  where you suffer  states while you are walking and sleeping at one time. And when you have to make decisions incondition. I know how it feels to tie for 15 minutes the ties of shoe when the weather is - 27 Celsius degree.

"I take a rest in a tent, this day was quite shitty." We are chatting about Yeti, etc, etc. "Zina is making notes in their adolescent magazine, JESUS! " A spooky atmosphere is present. One of us go to pie. Ouch! From outside we listen "Fuck!Fuck! Fuck there is something!  Something stomped on my tent and everyone starts to panic ... I'll wait in the tent before the others left out of the tent. Meanwhile, I'm putting on my shoes, putting on some clothes, if I don't, I'll take it with me. Where is my flashlight? I left the tent out  probably the last because if there is something, than I have a better chance to survive, because it will take a care firstly with my "friends".  It gives me some time for risk evaluation. "Ohh... I dont want to say my friends, we just met couple days ago."

I left the tent and I analyze the quite chaotic scenario. I see 8 jumping students around the tent and standing elk. Elk is standing and watching. "Hmmm it is not good" I will try to calm the resulting confusion. I will begin to guide the 20-year-old confused students. "Make a line!", "go there, you go there, you stand here, go closer to each other". I will try to form a line combat formation, which I think could be effective for this situation. The elk is standing, watching us and looks he dont want to leave. I will turn around I start to think where to cover.

I see anything, just down of the hill I see the forrest and I know that there is a forest. As soon as I succeed in short time, I will challenge the students with the voice "We'll push him out, let's go."This will probably go on just for some time. I am thinking of pushing him away from the tent close are just till he leave, then going back and visually control the elk from the tent, because ""Those kids are not dressed!"" So we're pushing elk. Since I believe the elk will also be surprised, it goes some time. . And we are moving and moving. Elk continuosly run, stops, watching us....

"It is enough! Lets go back" But the elk suddenly stops and run into our line formation.  "Fuck, ****, ****!" I did not suppose.  He disrupts the line, runs through the lineup, and suddenly he pushes us down to (cedar). The cards has quickly changed.

I am still relatively probably warm, because I was best dressed. I have a camera on my neck, take off my glove and start taking pictures. Because I have never seen this huge elk with horns before. But elk starts to attack me as well. I throw to him what I can - "aaahhh a flashlight!" Probably not the camera, because I have it hanged to my neck. He knocks me down, breaks my ribs. It's not exactly OK for me. I will stand.

Elk treads the others in the lineup and starts the massacre. 2 boys start running and climbing the tree while others face repeated attacks on moose. But he probably only attacked me once. Because "Im SOF scaut and Im always lucky - creed" However I start to realize the risk. It's not "fun" anymore.

The elk runs into the forest after a few-minute attack. (To his natural safety). Two boys on the tree freeze up and put their hands in their mouths in order not to bite their tongues with chattering teeth. They are not able to climb from a height of 5 meters. All looks OK now. This crazy elk left. Adrenaline is gone.

"Jurij! Go down, the elk has left"
The boys are freezing on the tree and falling down. I'll evaluate the situation. How many are wounded and how much. I'll start thinking where to move, because I don't want to stay in the incident place. We will go back to the crowd and start to solve the situation all together as follows: "

"You and you can walk, go for the wood, try to warm the cedar boys". It doesn't work, they are dead. Dubina is dying. No more time to take care of cedar dead bodies. "Lets take their clothes off!"
"You and you and you are relatively in good shape, you can walk, go back to the tent, get your clothes, first aid kit for Dubinina. Go in the column formation.
I and the rest of group will pull down 70m in this direction, where we will build a base. When you go, let us know by voice. "Here we go! Good luck! Willy ho!!

I drag with my friend Dubinins dying body to the tiped place and everyone except Dubinina starts burrowing the shelter. When we dig it out, we stretch out some branches and create isolation. "
Where the hell the Igor is?"
We are still waitting for Igor to get the stuff. Then we make consultation what to do next. I will check the camera and make 1-2 pictures. ***** /////////read this point very well///////

So we wait and wait, Im starting to be tired every step hurts because of bumped ribs...... " Im trying to call the Igor, but with not effect. "The boy next to me is sleeping, he is dying, This blondie is leaving to heaven also...What about camera? Should I try to make some picture?" "Dammit it is real cold! I will try to go to cedar to check where are they." I cannot move well, because of my ribs. Im not able to make up scramble. My pain start to be paralyzing.

"How I could make this mistake I cannot get from ravine..."
"I forgot that Igor and other students are not strong like me, I overestimated their strenght.. I fall a sleep because Im tired of whole expedition movement and my ribs hurts....

"Mission failed"


This is my story.

April 12, 2019, 10:47:21 AM
Reply #111

Radim

Guest
Just one point:

Also could happend that they choosed a bad place (stream area) because of night. And they digged quite deep.  They could just lie there but they were burried by snow.
But the initialization was: ELK(s) !

bye bye

April 12, 2019, 02:09:33 PM
Reply #112
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Sarapuk,
do you know what is this from the crime scene area?


I will rather give ownanswer.
.......the elks horns  dunno1

Well they look like horns belonging to some animal, but it doesnt go any way to proving that such an animal was responsible for the demise of the Dyatlov Group.
DB

April 12, 2019, 02:15:14 PM
Reply #113
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
But there were 9 hikers who had hatchets, ice axes and knives?

April 12, 2019, 02:21:18 PM
Reply #114

Radim

Guest
But there were 9 hikers who had hatchets, ice axes and knives?

Now you are too much clever on me..

Im not sure what do you mean...? Explain, please.

April 12, 2019, 02:23:02 PM
Reply #115

Radim

Guest
Sarapuk,
do you know what is this from the crime scene area?


I will rather give ownanswer.
.......the elks horns  dunno1


Well they look like horns belonging to some animal, but it doesnt go any way to proving that such an animal was responsible for the demise of the Dyatlov Group.


Good point Sarapuk, good point

April 12, 2019, 02:23:48 PM
Reply #116
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Do you really all of you think that picture no 8) "Horn"
is just a destroyed film negative?

You really dont see there anything suspicious?

Please tell me at least somebody you see there something. (UFO, grenade, train, aircraft, building, etc, does not matter, but something)
damn!
but dont tell me that it is just a destroyed film negative without any scenario.

I know where you are coming from regarding this analysis. Thats fine, we need to look at all angles in this great Dyatlov Mystery. But we also need to be careful that just because we dont have much evidence to go on we start making things up. We start clutching at straws so to speak. Having used old black and white film and cameras from the 1950's and 1960's and also having developed and processed such film myself, I know what type of things can happen to such film. A lot of what I see in those photos reminds me of damaged or contaminated film etc.
DB

April 12, 2019, 02:58:11 PM
Reply #117

Radim

Guest
Do you really all of you think that picture no 8) "Horn"
is just a destroyed film negative?


You really dont see there anything suspicious?

Please tell me at least somebody you see there something. (UFO, grenade, train, aircraft, building, etc, does not matter, but something)
damn!
but dont tell me that it is just a destroyed film negative without any scenario.

I know where you are coming from regarding this analysis. Thats fine, we need to look at all angles in this great Dyatlov Mystery. But we also need to be careful that just because we dont have much evidence to go on we start making things up. We start clutching at straws so to speak. Having used old black and white film and cameras from the 1950's and 1960's and also having developed and processed such film myself, I know what type of things can happen to such film. A lot of what I see in those photos reminds me of damaged or contaminated film etc.

Ok.. No problem.

Sarapuk - Idont know if somebody knows the Kuciak’s and his fioncee murdered case in Slovakia year and half month ago...
My theory since the beginning was that it had to make a soldier with quite good skills with weapons. But not perfect kills.
My theory based on wrong manipulation with pistol during gun jam.. I saw just saw an animations from scene, not real pictures.

That theory was of pistol jam which was equiped by silencer and the murder shoted the victim from very close distance to down side of head. Because of outlet pistol gas couldnt left the pistol effectively (because of victim skin) then he had a jam and murder started to fix the jam - presence of rounds at place.. etc, etc.. finally my decision was that it made some elite soldier or cop in retirement.. If I said to somebody.. everybody loughs to me :) “Radim you are crazy, it made a mafia” :) one year had to work international investigators work on it, then they confirmed theory...if somebody will listen me year ago, then the murder could be captured in weeks..

I feel that this “mystery” is the same.


April 12, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
Reply #118

Radim

Guest
Sorry to write like an idiot, but it is caused by iphone :)

April 12, 2019, 03:12:37 PM
Reply #119

Radim

Guest
Because also the pistol with silencer is like 15 years old nice girl: “Sometimes she gives her body, sometines no” :)

99