August 20, 2019, 08:27:00 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Most credible/Plausible theory?  (Read 991 times)

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May 13, 2019, 09:35:22 AM
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Mordecai


I'm brand new to this community but i'm very interested in this case. I've always been a big believer in "the stove" theory, but i'm curious to know what the rest of the community credits to be the best theory?

May 13, 2019, 09:53:08 AM
Reply #1
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Nigel Evans


Stove wasn't used that night (found full of wood). The tent had two pitch modes, high in the sheltered forest and low in exposed places. Low ruled out using the stove.
An embarrassing military accident possibly combined with some natural electrical phenomena that has to be kept secret fits the evidence the best.
Most theories can be ruled out because they don't explain the high level coverup.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:09:14 PM by Nigel Evans »

May 13, 2019, 10:23:01 AM
Reply #2
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Mordecai


weird man, but thank you. do you think their is possibility of a native Mansi spirit? it could be for trespassing on the land and had some correlation to that. that could have been the threat inside and the reason they left in such a hurry.

May 13, 2019, 12:15:31 PM
Reply #3
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Nigel Evans


weird man, but thank you. do you think their is possibility of a native Mansi spirit? it could be for trespassing on the land and had some correlation to that. that could have been the threat inside and the reason they left in such a hurry.
Native Mansi spirits aren't on my radar.  kewl1

The skin colour and Yuri D's foam on cheek fits with nitric acid which was used as fuel for the SAM missiles of that period (SA-75). Yuri answering a call of nature explains why he got it worst than the others. But Ivanov saw all the evidence and he thought fire orbs.


Just my theory of course others have their own, but they have to explain the coverup.

May 13, 2019, 12:23:44 PM
Reply #4
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gypsy


What (originating inside the tent) could have possibly made them leave in such conditions and kept them 1 mile away for hours without proper clothing?

The most dangerous thing inside the tent were probably those people themselves... but on the other hand, we have reference to "Kolevatov's device" in one of the diaries (I think it was Zina's, correct me of I'm wrong) and "tins and wires" found inside the tent by one of the members of the search party. These Clcould be significant considering no such thing was mentioned in the released case files. As we know the original files were confiscated, it might have been something not to be seen by public. It was speculated that if might have been some kind of home made radio equipment that either transmitted the signal caught by the army or received military communication.

That is just a speculation though, but plausible considering their backgound.

May 13, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
Reply #5
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Mordecai


my problem with it, if their was a threat outside the tent, what would be the reason to leave the safety when you know the forest is a long way away. further more, if something threatening was outside they would have run down the mountain but the mild indentations into the snow indicate a calm walk over a frantic run. and to the foam, i'm not familiar with this aspect of the case but it could be any number of natural things.

May 13, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
Reply #6
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gypsy


But Ivanov saw all the evidence and he thought fire orbs.


Too bad we don't have a better description of the fire orbs mentioned by Ivanov. Could have been of natural/electric origin (but storm was not mentioned) or artificial/man made (rocket, aerial vehicle, paratroopers?). Either way, such thing could have triggered air defence engagement procedure. That explaines the aftermath of the incident itself. Other possibility that justifies the coverup would be usage of a weapon system under development or banned by international treaties. (It was implied by Okishev, who supervised the investigation, that Deputy Prosecutor-General Urakov acted on belhaf of the highest ranks of the Communist Party - that implies political background of the decision to confiscate the case files)

May 13, 2019, 01:13:24 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
So whats the difference between this POST and the Simplest Possible Credible Explanation POST  !  ? 
DB

May 13, 2019, 06:15:24 PM
Reply #8
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
What (originating inside the tent) could have possibly made them leave in such conditions and kept them 1 mile away for hours without proper clothing?

A radio isotope heater of course.   thanky1

Does radio engineering in secret cold war Russia mean playing with walky-talkies?  I mean, some of the group had jobs dealing with enrichment and fallout the first year after graduating.....  but Igor plays with walkie-talkies.   Yeah.....   uh huh. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 13, 2019, 11:49:00 PM
Reply #9
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I’m exploring simple credible explanation in other thread st the moment.  To me the simple explanation has to have something to do with the group themselves.  However there may have been some other external influence.

Regards
Star man

May 14, 2019, 02:58:54 AM
Reply #10
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gypsy


Quote
What (originating inside the tent) could have possibly made them leave in such conditions and kept them 1 mile away for hours without proper clothing?

A radio isotope heater of course.   thanky1

Does radio engineering in secret cold war Russia mean playing with walky-talkies?  I mean, some of the group had jobs dealing with enrichment and fallout the first year after graduating.....  but Igor plays with walkie-talkies.   Yeah.....   uh huh.

Honestly I have no idea what he played with outside work or university. .. I just know the "Kolevatov 's device" and "tins and wires" are lost somewhere and not mentioned in released files. Whatever those were, it would probably fit into backpack.

As for walkie talkies, they were only permitted for civilian use in late 1950s, before that one could end up in jail for spying. I would not be surprised if such device was confiscated.

Zina studied radio engineering, considering that it is not so far-fetched idea.

May 14, 2019, 07:30:36 AM
Reply #11
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Mordecai


i still think there was something inside the tent, because if it was outside, why did they leave? and after that they walked, not ran, down the slope so what could it have been.

and if it was a rocket or acid from it wouldn't the search party have been affected by the acid too, as well as find the said rocket as they searched the area.

May 14, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
Reply #12
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gypsy


i still think there was something inside the tent, because if it was outside, why did they leave? and after that they walked, not ran, down the slope so what could it have been.

and if it was a rocket or acid from it wouldn't the search party have been affected by the acid too, as well as find the said rocket as they searched the area.

The S75 SAM used by air defence of that era was a guided missile so the army was able to locate and recover its parts almost immediately. The search group would have found nothing after 4 weeks had the army retrieved them. The fuel would most likely be burnt or evaporated (Lev Ivanov reported burnt tops of the trees in the area).

https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-75-Volkhov.html

" Deputy Prosecutor General, comrade Urakov came to meet with us and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the hikers’ death was an accident. Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers. What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him." Okishev also implies that the search party that was set up on 26th February and subsequent investigation was not the only one going on.

https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2013

PS. I am not at all saying that this is the only explanation or that there was not anything inside the tent that made them flee the place.
I just think one needs to take into consideration the aftermath of the incident and how it was treated by people involved in the investigation as well as try to explain why the group got separated and the injuries (I do not see how those happened inside the tent / no bloodmarks there, no signs that the hikers were seriously injured at the time of leaving) etc...

Nevertheless, any new thoughts or perspectives are welcome.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 08:25:24 AM by gypsy »

May 14, 2019, 09:45:56 AM
Reply #13
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Mordecai


i still think there was something inside the tent, because if it was outside, why did they leave? and after that they walked, not ran, down the slope so what could it have been.

and if it was a rocket or acid from it wouldn't the search party have been affected by the acid too, as well as find the said rocket as they searched the area.

The S75 SAM used by air defence of that era was a guided missile so the army was able to locate and recover its parts almost immediately. The search group would have found nothing after 4 weeks had the army retrieved them. The fuel would most likely be burnt or evaporated (Lev Ivanov reported burnt tops of the trees in the area).

https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-75-Volkhov.html

" Deputy Prosecutor General, comrade Urakov came to meet with us and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the hikers’ death was an accident. Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers. What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him." Okishev also implies that the search party that was set up on 26th February and subsequent investigation was not the only one going on.

https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2013

PS. I am not at all saying that this is the only explanation or that there was not anything inside the tent that made them flee the place.
I just think one needs to take into consideration the aftermath of the incident and how it was treated by people involved in the investigation as well as try to explain why the group got separated and the injuries (I do not see how those happened inside the tent / no bloodmarks there, no signs that the hikers were seriously injured at the time of leaving) etc...

Nevertheless, any new thoughts or perspectives are welcome.

Yes but there would have been evidence to hint to the retrieval of the parts, footprints, melted snow into ice by then, etc. Even after the time period there would be deformations in the snow. The hikers still had footprints with detail and it would have had to happen around the same time.

May 14, 2019, 06:39:05 PM
Reply #14
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
"Radio engineering"

Telecommunication radio, or radio as in radiology, radiation, radio isotope.........

Perhaps the walky talky class is a cover....
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 14, 2019, 07:06:36 PM
Reply #15
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cennetkusu


i still think there was something inside the tent, because if it was outside, why did they leave? and after that they walked, not ran, down the slope so what could it have been.

and if it was a rocket or acid from it wouldn't the search party have been affected by the acid too, as well as find the said rocket as they searched the area.
There are only two reasons for this. 1. A very strong attack on the tent. 2. Voices and images that annoy and frighten young people around the tent. Or a combination of the two. There is no other explanation for this. Or the young people went crazy and they all wanted to commit suicide ... It's not possible at all and that doesn't make sense. I think option 2 is a more acceptable option .
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.

May 14, 2019, 11:26:33 PM
Reply #16
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gypsy


"Radio engineering"

Telecommunication radio, or radio as in radiology, radiation, radio isotope.........

Perhaps the walky talky class is a cover....

I think it is actually the first sense of the word, not radiology, radation etc.

https://etu.ru/en/study/faculties/faculty-of-radio-engineering-and-telecommunications

https://etu.ru/en/study/bachelors-degree/11.03.01-radio-engineering

(Ural Institute website is only in Russian, but content of the study looks pretty much the same to this one)

"In 1957 by a decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers the institute was assigned a task of establishing stations, that would receive signals of Sputnik 1. There were very few professional stations in the USSR at the time, and the institute cooperated with radio amateurs (=kids playing with walkie talkies) throughout the country and provided necessary equipment..."

This is about the similar University in Moscow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Radio-engineering_and_Electronics
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 11:31:14 PM by gypsy »

May 16, 2019, 06:14:20 AM
Reply #17
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Im not stating there wasn't a class, or that he didn't take it. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 16, 2019, 09:40:45 AM
Reply #18
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Nigel Evans



Yes but there would have been evidence to hint to the retrieval of the parts, footprints, melted snow into ice by then, etc. Even after the time period there would be deformations in the snow. The hikers still had footprints with detail and it would have had to happen around the same time.
A tracked vehicle towing a snow blower might solve the problem, until of course it needs lifting off the mountain by helicopter which cannot so easily hide it's heat signature (particularly if they used a Mil-Mi6 which had two very powerful turbo shaft engines, essentially two jet engines). Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent and the area in general displays wind carved snow that has been explained as raised in temperature. Hmmm. The tracked vehicle fits very well with the "crushed in the den theory" of course. Hmmm again.
Or ball lightning can explain all the above.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 11:36:24 AM by Nigel Evans »

May 17, 2019, 12:13:02 AM
Reply #19
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
So does the magical god particle. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 17, 2019, 03:25:26 AM
Reply #20
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gypsy


Im not stating there wasn't a class, or that he didn't take it.

What do you think is Kolevatov's device mentioned in Zina's diary?

(Zina: Sasha Kolevatov tested his device, then quit)

May 20, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
Reply #21
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Mordecai



Yes but there would have been evidence to hint to the retrieval of the parts, footprints, melted snow into ice by then, etc. Even after the time period there would be deformations in the snow. The hikers still had footprints with detail and it would have had to happen around the same time.
A tracked vehicle towing a snow blower might solve the problem, until of course it needs lifting off the mountain by helicopter which cannot so easily hide it's heat signature (particularly if they used a Mil-Mi6 which had two very powerful turbo shaft engines, essentially two jet engines). Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent and the area in general displays wind carved snow that has been explained as raised in temperature. Hmmm. The tracked vehicle fits very well with the "crushed in the den theory" of course. Hmmm again.
Or ball lightning can explain all the above.

but that would have its own complications like a trail of where the blower took the snow from

May 20, 2019, 08:53:02 AM
Reply #22
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent

For our forum readers...  The above mentioned is pure speculation that has no basis in fact.   thumb1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 20, 2019, 10:28:02 AM
Reply #23
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Nigel Evans


Quote
Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent

For our forum readers...  The above mentioned is pure speculation that has no basis in fact.   thumb1
For our forum readers... 


http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=412.60
Sharavin was one of the team that discovered the tent :-
M. Sharavin: As regards the area of ​​blown snow, this was reported in a telephone message from searches.
  The circle of blown snow was more than from the rotor of the helicopter.  Later, this notebook with a record of all messages from searches was withdrawn by "competent" bodies, the room was closed and the duty was discontinued.  This is evidenced by one of the on-duty then Galya ..., who made repentance, that is, a statement 50 years later.

In addition, I see in the picture the fluff of loose snow, And we saw a circle of firn snow,Firn is a term to describe snow that is hardening into ice. Typically caused by compression, hence the name, derived from German for "last years". However the firn here is difficult to explain as compressed.
Koptelov was in the same group - http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=347.30

He states that the team speculated on the existence of the raised footprints  :-
We found that here is a tent, and there are literally tracks from it.
N: In how many meters began approximately?
KYUE: And right, here is the square, maybe 8-10 meters from the tent, a short distance. And immediately the tracks begin. Straight, parallel to the foot.
H: Number do you remember these traces? (Note NAVIG: this phrase is in the video.)
KYUE: ... 8-9, we immediately counted it ...
N: That is, in one 8 in another 9?
KYUE: Just 8, we seemed to think clearly, and 9 - they said that "there seems to be a trace or something incomprehensible."
H: Did you see them yourself?
KYUE: Of course! We specially approached and decided when this trace could have been left and why and who could have left it. Why is it, say, not blew? And it couldn’t be blown out because, if, let's say, to stamp hard, then it would harden. Or come something warm. That is, we discussed.





May 20, 2019, 12:26:19 PM
Reply #24
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Quote
Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent

For our forum readers...  The above mentioned is pure speculation that has no basis in fact.   thumb1
For our forum readers... 


http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=412.60
Sharavin was one of the team that discovered the tent :-
M. Sharavin: As regards the area of ​​blown snow, this was reported in a telephone message from searches.
  The circle of blown snow was more than from the rotor of the helicopter.  Later, this notebook with a record of all messages from searches was withdrawn by "competent" bodies, the room was closed and the duty was discontinued.  This is evidenced by one of the on-duty then Galya ..., who made repentance, that is, a statement 50 years later.

In addition, I see in the picture the fluff of loose snow, And we saw a circle of firn snow,Firn is a term to describe snow that is hardening into ice. Typically caused by compression, hence the name, derived from German for "last years". However the firn here is difficult to explain as compressed.
Koptelov was in the same group - http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=347.30

He states that the team speculated on the existence of the raised footprints  :-
We found that here is a tent, and there are literally tracks from it.
N: In how many meters began approximately?
KYUE: And right, here is the square, maybe 8-10 meters from the tent, a short distance. And immediately the tracks begin. Straight, parallel to the foot.
H: Number do you remember these traces? (Note NAVIG: this phrase is in the video.)
KYUE: ... 8-9, we immediately counted it ...
N: That is, in one 8 in another 9?
KYUE: Just 8, we seemed to think clearly, and 9 - they said that "there seems to be a trace or something incomprehensible."
H: Did you see them yourself?
KYUE: Of course! We specially approached and decided when this trace could have been left and why and who could have left it. Why is it, say, not blew? And it couldn’t be blown out because, if, let's say, to stamp hard, then it would harden. Or come something warm. That is, we discussed.


Its still debatable. And you state ''and the area in general displays wind carved snow that has been explained as raised in temperature.''  Explained or suggested or speculation  !  ? DEBATABLE.
DB

May 20, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Reply #25
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Nigel Evans



Its still debatable. And you state ''and the area in general displays wind carved snow that has been explained as raised in temperature.''  Explained or suggested or speculation  !  ? DEBATABLE.
Absolutely it's debatable and in no way proven.


But it does have a basis in fact. I might think stronger and you might think weaker but the facts are there, that's what they said.

May 21, 2019, 06:41:22 AM
Reply #26
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
50 years later looking an an old grainy black/white photo.   lol1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 21, 2019, 07:43:26 AM
Reply #27
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Nigel Evans


50 years later looking an an old grainy black/white photo.   lol1
60 years...  quiet1

May 21, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
Reply #28
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Quote
who made repentance, that is, a statement 50 years later.


 bang1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

May 23, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
Reply #29
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Mordecai


Quote
Curiously there is the hot spot and a large snow ring near the tent

For our forum readers...  The above mentioned is pure speculation that has no basis in fact.   thumb1

there was pictures that show the surrounding area to help further debunk this speculations, and it would have been mentioned in the report.