November 13, 2019, 04:07:26 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Exploring The Yeti Theory  (Read 5310 times)

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October 16, 2019, 04:57:21 AM
Reply #330
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Star man

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It could be measured in the similar way they calculate deformation in crash tests with cars and figurines... there could be a thin line between breaking and not breaking the ribs... Also we should consider the area of impact (smaller area usually inflicts more damage). I would really be interested what damage could a piece of wood do when hitting a rob cage from 2m height with the edge (considering the edge would be exactly the size that fits the pattern of the broken ribs)

That ‘s a reasonable question to ask.  What difference would the cross sectional area of impact make to the required force and energy.  It would certainly increase the applied pressure at the point of impact. But it would also increase the likelihood of soft tissue damage in the same area. I probably need to think more on that one.    Don’t have much time at the moment.

Regards
Star man

October 16, 2019, 08:52:55 AM
Reply #331
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Star man

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Ok here are further thoughts on this:

Decreasing the cross sectional area of any blunt instrument for any fixed amount of force increases the pressure and shear forces around the point of impact.  As the area is reduced the pressure and shear force increase asymptotically - as the edge of the blunt instrument moves from being a club to a knife edge.  At a certain point the shear force should become high enough to cause shearing/cutting of bone and eventually tissue .  It would be possible to cause the rib fractures with less overall force but - for example - if an thin iron bar were used, but in these circumstances you should also see more significant tissue damage too.  I think that Lyuda would have such tissue damage if a thinner heavy object had been used.  So again it’s more likely that the injuries were a result of heavier powerful blows .  The flail chest injury I think is stronger evidence that the blows were caused by a fast moving blunt object.  Especially since both Lyuda and Semyon both have these type of injuries.  Such injuries are usually the result of blunt force trauma .

This then takes me back to the original point that humans are not capable of delivering these injuries - even with a blunt instrument.

On the other hand, the average weight of a Silver back Gorilla is about 170kg with a typical range between 150 to 200kg.  Using its weight and power such an animal could inflict these injuries and the pattern of the injuries are consistent with a Gorilla standing over its victim raining blows down them. 

I find this kind of weird myself but the more I dig into it the more the evidence seems to point in this direction.

Regards

Star man

October 16, 2019, 09:32:10 AM
Reply #332
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Per Inge Oestmoen



On the slope they drop the flashlight.  If it was important enough to take why wasn't it important enough to pick up?  Haste? Panic?

At the cedar is there evidence of haste.  The clothes removed from the two Yuris for instance.  Cut from their bodies, socks scattered around the camp fire, clothes left between the ravine and the cedar.  If they were in a hurry why?  Gloves in pockets, unused socks, coats not fully buttoned up.  I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

If you and I were attacked by determined killers - for example highly trained Special Forces Operators - and forced out from our tent at gunpoint, we would certainly be in a hurry too.

By the way, those who point out that the crushing of rib cages can be caused by hard blows by other humans are entirely correct. I have briefly trained jiu jitsu, and therefore have learned that trained close combat specialists can easily break rib cages with elbow strikes. Such injuries may cause massive internal bleeding and death. This is what I suppose happened to Dubinina and Zolotaryov.

There are those who cannot bring themselves to believe that the Dyatlov group members were murdered by a well-planned and intelligently executed operation designed to look like an "accicent." That is a pity, and it is also strange since it is clear that these nine were bright people who could conceivably be considered a threat to state security if they observed something they were not supposed to witness - and ever told others what they had seen. It is not unreasonable to suggest that some officials in Moscow gave the order to eliminate a possible future security risk, and that a helicopter was landed near Kholat Syakhl with a group of professional extecutors of "wet affairs." It is also possible, albeit much less likely, that some local Mansi people for some reason were incensed by the presence of the hikers in their area. Realistically, these are the two only possibilities.

The head injury of Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle that hit the side of his head is certainly not caused by any fall or any non-existent avalanche. It seems to me to be from a rifle butt, with the force of the impact being dampened by his headgear and possibly delivered by several blows in succession:

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Nikolay-Thibeaux-Brignolle-autopsy-report.png

The same can be said of the injury that was found on Rustem Slobodin. He seems to have had less protection on his head, causing the impact from the blow to be more pointed:

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Rustem-Slobodin-autopsy-report.png

Not a fall injury, not the kind of damage would expect from avalanches - besides there were no avalanches in the area.

Aleksander Kolevatov had:

"open wound behind ear, size 3x1.5 cm"
"deformed neck"

Which were not exactly the typical signs of falls or avalanches either.

We should all realize that irrespective of the identity of the killers and what their motives may have been, every piece of evidence available points to and is only consistent with the conclusion that the Dyatlov group members were in fact attacked and killed, and most importantly their attackers were human.

October 16, 2019, 02:30:23 PM
Reply #333
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Star man

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On the slope they drop the flashlight.  If it was important enough to take why wasn't it important enough to pick up?  Haste? Panic?

At the cedar is there evidence of haste.  The clothes removed from the two Yuris for instance.  Cut from their bodies, socks scattered around the camp fire, clothes left between the ravine and the cedar.  If they were in a hurry why?  Gloves in pockets, unused socks, coats not fully buttoned up.  I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

If you and I were attacked by determined killers - for example highly trained Special Forces Operators - and forced out from our tent at gunpoint, we would certainly be in a hurry too.

By the way, those who point out that the crushing of rib cages can be caused by hard blows by other humans are entirely correct. I have briefly trained jiu jitsu, and therefore have learned that trained close combat specialists can easily break rib cages with elbow strikes. Such injuries may cause massive internal bleeding and death. This is what I suppose happened to Dubinina and Zolotaryov.

There are those who cannot bring themselves to believe that the Dyatlov group members were murdered by a well-planned and intelligently executed operation designed to look like an "accicent." That is a pity, and it is also strange since it is clear that these nine were bright people who could conceivably be considered a threat to state security if they observed something they were not supposed to witness - and ever told others what they had seen. It is not unreasonable to suggest that some officials in Moscow gave the order to eliminate a possible future security risk, and that a helicopter was landed near Kholat Syakhl with a group of professional extecutors of "wet affairs." It is also possible, albeit much less likely, that some local Mansi people for some reason were incensed by the presence of the hikers in their area. Realistically, these are the two only possibilities.

The head injury of Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle that hit the side of his head is certainly not caused by any fall or any non-existent avalanche. It seems to me to be from a rifle butt, with the force of the impact being dampened by his headgear and possibly delivered by several blows in succession:

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Nikolay-Thibeaux-Brignolle-autopsy-report.png

The same can be said of the injury that was found on Rustem Slobodin. He seems to have had less protection on his head, causing the impact from the blow to be more pointed:

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Rustem-Slobodin-autopsy-report.png

Not a fall injury, not the kind of damage would expect from avalanches - besides there were no avalanches in the area.

Aleksander Kolevatov had:

"open wound behind ear, size 3x1.5 cm"
"deformed neck"

Which were not exactly the typical signs of falls or avalanches either.

We should all realize that irrespective of the identity of the killers and what their motives may have been, every piece of evidence available points to and is only consistent with the conclusion that the Dyatlov group members were in fact attacked and killed, and most importantly their attackers were human.

What do you think it is they might have seen on the top of that mountain in the middle of nowhere, at night ithat would have made them such a risk to national security that their murders were ordered that night and if they had seen something so important why would they leave Semyon with a camera?  Why would they leave the other cameras in the tent?

After their brutal attack the hikers would not have died immediately.  Thibo may have been unconscious but alive for several hours.  Lyuda may have lived for up to 20 minutes.  Semyon may have lived for several hours.  Kolevatov appears to have lived the longest.  Do you think the attackers would stick around and wait until they had all died?  Do you think they would have watched while Lyudas fur jacket and hat were put onto Semyon?

Why not just make them all disappear, including the tent and all their gear?  That would leave zero evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance?  It's much cleaner and easier and far more logical.

Another possibility is if they had seen something why not make them sign non disclosure documents, in the ame way the pathologists were required to sign non disclosure documents?

One other question Lyuda left set of ribs have 6 fractures all in a single line.  How was this pattern of fractures created so linearly?

Regards

Star man

October 16, 2019, 04:55:25 PM
Reply #334
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gypsy


Before continuing the "no human is capable to deliver such forces" narrative, please try to read the following document, especially the discussion section.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297700506_Measuring_the_force_of_punches_and_kicks_among_combat_sport_athletes_using_a_modified_punching_bag_with_an_embedded_accelerometer
I will copy part of it below:

The impact
forces of delivered kicks were reported at a broad
range of 382 N to 9015 N and depended on the meas-
uring methods adopted and the type of punches and
kicks performed [4], [5], [10]–[12], [16], [17]. In box-
ers, the recorded punching forces ranged from 1990 N
to 4741 N [16], [17].
 

October 17, 2019, 12:00:11 AM
Reply #335
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Before continuing the "no human is capable to deliver such forces" narrative, please try to read the following document, especially the discussion section.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297700506_Measuring_the_force_of_punches_and_kicks_among_combat_sport_athletes_using_a_modified_punching_bag_with_an_embedded_accelerometer
I will copy part of it below:

The impact
forces of delivered kicks were reported at a broad
range of 382 N to 9015 N and depended on the meas-
uring methods adopted and the type of punches and
kicks performed [4], [5], [10]–[12], [16], [17]. In box-
ers, the recorded punching forces ranged from 1990 N
to 4741 N [16], [17].

There is nothing really new in there Gypsy.  The upper range forces you have quoted are at the top end of what is possible by professionally trained heavy weight boxers and athletes and these are below the margin of the forces required to cause those injuries.  My estimation of the force required to cause Lyuda’s chest injuries is about 16000N - roughly 270kg per rib.  Expert knowledge of the forces required for such injuries would help.  My estimate is based on the forces required to break 6 ribs simultaneously which is what the injuries appear to be.  It also appears that the force required to cause the injury to Lyuda ‘s left and right ribs is about the same.  And for Semyon.

Regards
Star man


October 17, 2019, 05:57:36 PM
Reply #336
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gypsy


Isn't the whole incident at the top of range of what is possible in real world? On the balance of probability, I pretty much lean towards close combat trained people as opposed to humanoid apes. There is absolutely nothing weird about the existence of elite soldiers. The problematic part is their presence at given time and place.. And ofcourse them being responsible for the death of 9 people. No need to bring apes, yetis or any other entities with questionable existence to realistic explanation in my opinion.

Arguments in favour of the trained soldiers, not apes :

humans can erase the the traces

more consistent with the government response and cover-up

different "technical" COD, the animals are more likely to use the same technique, usually leave bites or scratches

would explain the "fire orbs", in other words there could have been something that triggered the engagement of Soviet "specnaz", e.g. something appeared on the radar or the military intercepted unsolicited communication in the vicinity of Kholat Syakhil

Arguments in favour of the apes /yetis, not soldiers /close combat trained individuals :

... Don't know but feel free to add them, I want to keep this discussion open-minded.

October 17, 2019, 11:47:53 PM
Reply #337
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Isn't the whole incident at the top of range of what is possible in real world? On the balance of probability, I pretty much lean towards close combat trained people as opposed to humanoid apes. There is absolutely nothing weird about the existence of elite soldiers. The problematic part is their presence at given time and place.. And ofcourse them being responsible for the death of 9 people. No need to bring apes, yetis or any other entities with questionable existence to realistic explanation in my opinion.

Arguments in favour of the trained soldiers, not apes :

humans can erase the the traces

more consistent with the government response and cover-up

different "technical" COD, the animals are more likely to use the same technique, usually leave bites or scratches

would explain the "fire orbs", in other words there could have been something that triggered the engagement of Soviet "specnaz", e.g. something appeared on the radar or the military intercepted unsolicited communication in the vicinity of Kholat Syakhil

Arguments in favour of the apes /yetis, not soldiers /close combat trained individuals :

... Don't know but feel free to add them, I want to keep this discussion open-minded.

The problem with the military human attack is that apart from the injuries Being akin to massive blunt force trauma.  The whole pattern of events does not logically fit together.  Nothing was taken from them.  The cameras in particular could have had evidence on it.  There is no motive for the attack.  It would have been much cleaner and more logical to just make them all disappear including the tent and their gear.  Leave no evidence and just one big mystery about their disappearance.  Even the attack on the rav four is inconsistent with specialists taking them out.  Semyon and Kolevatov could have lived for several hours after sustained those injuries.  Why would they not just finish them off with a few extra blows to the ribs or head?  I doubt they would want to stick around for several hours in the freezing cold just to watch them slowly die.  None of it makes sense.  It’s not just the injuries.

I have already described the evidence that supports an ape like attack.  Apes were used to test the effects of military weapons.  Maybe it was some apes that had been released from an exotic pet owner or a circus or zoo, but that probably would not justify burying the bodies in zinc coffins.

Regards

Star man

October 18, 2019, 10:56:57 AM
Reply #338
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jarrfan


The two pictures of lights, one not so clear and another of a blast of light are questionable as to what they could be. The one of the blast you can see 3 head shapes at the bottom so it appears it was taken with people standing in front of Semyon as he took the picture. The one picture that Semyon took with the blurry lights could have been from his camera as he was in the ravine, left to die and it may be a picture of someone walking up the hill with a lantern or flashlight that did not capture anything but the lantern moving. He may have thought taking the picture would give the world the information needed to figure out how they died. He may have had the camera around his neck hidden and as the attackers were walking away back up the hill, he snapped it hoping it would show more than it did.

October 18, 2019, 02:31:28 PM
Reply #339
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Semyon may well have taken some photographs that presented the cause of their demise.  But I don't think there is any useful information that could be extracted from them as they very damaged.  Also there is speculation that 9 of the negatives went missing.

Regards

Star man

October 18, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
Reply #340
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Star man

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I want to present some further thoughts on the tent and the cuts that were made from the inside.  There were only three cuts that appeared to have been made from inside the tent.  Two of them were very small and one was about 86cm.  From what I can tell (happy to be corrected on this) the cuts appear to be near the entrance of the tent on The down side of the slope.  There were also reports of tears and holes in the tent with one of Dyatlov's jackets stuffed into the hole.

My first question is if the hikers were trying to make an exit to escape the tent why make three cuts, and why stuff a jacket into an already existing hole or tear?  Clearly they could not have made those cuts in order to try to escape the tent?  The only cut that was big enough to escape through would have been the 86cm cut.  Also the cuts were very close to the entrance which was still standing albeit covered in a new build up of snow when the tent was found.  So it would more likely be easier to leave through the entrance than cut a hole in the tent given the proximity of the cuts to the entrance.

My second question is if the cuts were not made as a means to try and escape from the tent why were they made at all?  I can't remember who stated this on the forum, but they said that if there were wolves or a wild animal outside the tent the last thing you would do is go outside and leave the tent.  So maybe this could be close to what did actually happen.  In this scenario, the cuts were not made to escape the tent, they were made to defend the tent and the hikers inside, from whatever it was that was outside?  The hikers tried to slash at whatever it was through the tent.  Said thing may have been pushing on the tent or attacking them from outside.  If the attacker damaged part of the tent then it would make sense to try and cover the hole by pushing a jacket into it.  Now it may be that all this happened very quickly and with little warning creating a panic within the tent.  As the tent became more damaged and torn during the attack, the hikers had no choice but to flee, taking only those things they already had in their hands and on the clothing they were wearing in the tent.  It's possible that some had time to grab a few extra items of clothing.  The jacket and sneakers found about 10 metres from the tent may have been dropped during a frantic escape from the camp site?

Could the attackers have been human?  Unlikely, as staying in the tent would not be an effective strategy against intelligent humans who would be familiar with tents.  Stuffing a jacket into a hole would also be an unlikely deterrent for humans.  But it would be a likely set of events if the attacker were an animal of some kind.  Like an ape type creature?

One possibility is that humans attacked them and destroyed the tent after forcing the hikers out.  If this were true why would the human attacker stuff Dyatlovs jacket in one of the holes they had made!

Regards

Star man

October 18, 2019, 05:35:01 PM
Reply #341
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jarrfan


Dear Starman: What I gathered from reading Mihail Shavarin's latest testimony 2007 was that the tent was cut open with an ice ax by him and another searcher when they found the tent to see if there was anyone in there. The two big cuts were made by them looking for a person, or body. So that leaves the 3 small cuts made from the inside. The only purpose for these cuts would be to see what is outside the tent either by noise, voice or light. whatever it was they did not hesitate and left the tent either as directed or scared beyond their limits. For me, I am weak on the Yeti theory but do not count it out.

With Semyon's fake cap tooth, it makes me think he was some sort of a spy either for Russia or against Russia and they wanted him taken out. Perhaps the middle of the Urals was the place to do that. Dentists don't put a fake cap on a root as a normal practice. If he were a spy, that might have been a poison capsule he carried in his mouth and so as to not accidentally bite it, it was hidden under the fake tooth. He may have used it as he was dying for all we know. The only way to know for sure would to be to exhume  the body again and check the area of the mouth for traces of poison. As I have stated, the Nazi's used this tactic and one used it in prison for his own demise. There is still speculation as to whether he was related to the one person in his family tree, and apparently the results were either negative or inconclusive.

Best regards...


October 18, 2019, 05:51:26 PM
Reply #342
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jarrfan


I am going to throw this out there too: The picture with the 3 heads in the front, that means Semyon was standing behind these 3 individuals perhaps trying to hide in the group and he snapped the picture thinking he might capture the attackers forms but as he took the picture, someone flashed a light at him. Just another thought about the pictures.

October 19, 2019, 02:33:25 PM
Reply #343
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Dear Starman: What I gathered from reading Mihail Shavarin's latest testimony 2007 was that the tent was cut open with an ice ax by him and another searcher when they found the tent to see if there was anyone in there. The two big cuts were made by them looking for a person, or body. So that leaves the 3 small cuts made from the inside. The only purpose for these cuts would be to see what is outside the tent either by noise, voice or light. whatever it was they did not hesitate and left the tent either as directed or scared beyond their limits. For me, I am weak on the Yeti theory but do not count it out.

With Semyon's fake cap tooth, it makes me think he was some sort of a spy either for Russia or against Russia and they wanted him taken out. Perhaps the middle of the Urals was the place to do that. Dentists don't put a fake cap on a root as a normal practice. If he were a spy, that might have been a poison capsule he carried in his mouth and so as to not accidentally bite it, it was hidden under the fake tooth. He may have used it as he was dying for all we know. The only way to know for sure would to be to exhume  the body again and check the area of the mouth for traces of poison. As I have stated, the Nazi's used this tactic and one used it in prison for his own demise. There is still speculation as to whether he was related to the one person in his family tree, and apparently the results were either negative or inconclusive.

Best regards...

There is a high probability that the tent was subject to additional damage during its recovery, but the three cuts from the inside and the hole with the jacket in were unlikely to be made by the search and rescue team.  So on that basis the questions I asked and the proposed explanation still stand.

I'm not as familiar with Semyon's hollow crown, or why he had it or what it's intended use was for.  It's interesting though.  Whatever it was for I doubt that he used it that night to end his life.  He tried to survive.  I suppose if it was a cyanide cap then he could have used it in the final moments to try and end the pain.  If someone wanted Semyon dead though I very much doubt that they would wait until he was in one of the most inhospitable and difficult to get to areas.  It would be much easier to arrange for his demise closer to civilisation.

 Think about it. 

Regards

Star man

October 19, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
Reply #344
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I am going to throw this out there too: The picture with the 3 heads in the front, that means Semyon was standing behind these 3 individuals perhaps trying to hide in the group and he snapped the picture thinking he might capture the attackers forms but as he took the picture, someone flashed a light at him. Just another thought about the pictures.

If I remember right, Loose Cannon presented another photo that showed that the three heads photo is actually a very small section of one Semyon's pics that had been blown up rather than a pic of three heads.  it's been manipulated.

Regards

Star man

October 25, 2019, 04:01:10 PM
Reply #345
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Some more thoughts on the tent and why human involvement is unlikely.

The scene in the tent when it was found was very orderly.  It appears that nothing was taken from the tent.  Apart from the shoes to the left of the entrance, which are described as uncharacteristically untidy, the rest of the contents appears orderly.  If human attackers had been there, what are the chances that they would leave everything in the tent as it was when the hikers left?  Even if they had searched the tent and took nothing, the scene in the tent would be more chaotic.  It appears that no person or animal had entered the tent?  If humans had been there I really don't think that they would not have at least searched the tent.  Of course it is possible that the tent was searched and the searchers tidied up after themselves?  But it's very very unlikely. - because they didn't tidy the boots up.

Regards

Star man


October 25, 2019, 04:32:24 PM
Reply #346
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gypsy


I think the whole "tent scene" is just inconclusive. If there was another person (or more), they could have taken something without turning the place upside down...we just don't know as the whole operation was not according to basic forensic or investigation standards. The search party was scrambled kind of hastily so it is understandable that there was no strict procedure how to handle the evidence. We probably don't even have a full inventory list - I would wonder what "tins and wires" mentioned in radioigrams or "Kolevatov's device" from Zina's diary was. Not to mention toxicology report that is omitted from the known case files completely.

I previously asked about what speakt in favour of "ape" attack as opposed to human involvement. Maybe I should rephrase the question. My general understanding is that humans have more capabilities and more variability in combat. Animals have rather consistent pattern of behaviour when facing danger. So the question stands: Is there anything that an ape would be capable of, but human atacker wouldn't? Then  there is a question of traces...I doubt that ape(s) wandering around would not gain attention sooner or later, people can just fly away with a helicopter. In the end if we exclude presence of both other humans or animals, that leaves us with a version that involves violence among the members of Dyatlov group. However, there people did not seem to be capable of such a strong violence...unless somebody went psycho a smashed Tibo's skull with a 60lb piese of ice a threw it into the ravine... because I do not see a 'murder weapon' accounted for either.


October 25, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
Reply #347
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jarrfan


I would refer you to the Mihail Sharavin testimony that claims when they found the tent on the  first search, he and another searcher took the ice ax and made a hole in the tent to see if anyone was in there, i.e., one of the hikers possibly alive or deceased. They said the tent contents were catalogued and made note of. So I don't believe anyone or anything entered the tent after the hikers died or were driven from the tent. I believe they were separated by the government military and questioned, beaten each group as they were separated. The attackers huddled together figuring out the statements from the hikers, the  first 5 that were found. As the ravine 4 were building the den, they realized their comrades were murdered and one of them snuck up the cedar and removed clothing still not certain they would be killed, hoping they might be able to survive because they knew they were innocent but the attackers decided they all needed to die and beat and shoved the last 4 into the ravine and that is how their injuries were so much worse.

That is the only explanation I can come up with at this time. It could have been a Yeti but unless it tracked all 3 groups down separately I don't know how that would be possible, but it is still feasible.

Regards, Jarrfan

October 26, 2019, 05:01:31 PM
Reply #348
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I think the whole "tent scene" is just inconclusive. If there was another person (or more), they could have taken something without turning the place upside down...we just don't know as the whole operation was not according to basic forensic or investigation standards. The search party was scrambled kind of hastily so it is understandable that there was no strict procedure how to handle the evidence. We probably don't even have a full inventory list - I would wonder what "tins and wires" mentioned in radioigrams or "Kolevatov's device" from Zina's diary was. Not to mention toxicology report that is omitted from the known case files completely.

I previously asked about what speakt in favour of "ape" attack as opposed to human involvement. Maybe I should rephrase the question. My general understanding is that humans have more capabilities and more variability in combat. Animals have rather consistent pattern of behaviour when facing danger. So the question stands: Is there anything that an ape would be capable of, but human atacker wouldn't? Then  there is a question of traces...I doubt that ape(s) wandering around would not gain attention sooner or later, people can just fly away with a helicopter. In the end if we exclude presence of both other humans or animals, that leaves us with a version that involves violence among the members of Dyatlov group. However, there people did not seem to be capable of such a strong violence...unless somebody went psycho a smashed Tibo's skull with a 60lb piese of ice a threw it into the ravine... because I do not see a 'murder weapon' accounted for either.

You're right.  The whole tent scene is a bit messed up in terms of preserving evidence.  However, there are many key things that I think can be taken as useful evidence, including some of the witness statements.  In particular the following:

1. The three cuts made from the inside of the tent
2. The description of the layout of items in the tent
3. The listed inventory of the tent
4. The jacket and sneakers found several metres from the tent
5. Dyatlov's jacket stuffed in a hole in the side of tent.

even things that may seem simple and uninteresting are IMO of potentially key importance.  For instance the cuts made from inside the tent.  It has often been said/implied and a mental image created within the case files info that the Dyatlov group were so terrified that cut their way out of the tent to escape.  But when you consider the cuts in detail it is unlikely that this was ghe reason for the cuts.  Firstly, two of the cuts are quite small and not big enough to escape the tent.  The largest cut is 89cm which is probably big enough to escape through.  But if you were cutting a hole to escape then once your knife had penetrated the fabric of the tent you would not withdraw it after only 33cm and start a new hole.  You would continue to cut the fabric until the hole was big enough to escape through.  Also these cuts were near the entrance which was still standing  and probably not covered in snow at the time.  It would be far easier to escape through the entrance.  One other thing, if you were trying to escape to the tent by cutting a hole in it, then you would not try to block up another hole with your jacket.  That leaves me wondering then why they were cutting the tent from the inside?  The only thing that I can think of is that they were trying to defend the tent and themselves from something outside, by thrusting the knife at something through the tent.  Using a knife to lash out at a trained team of armed military officers is unlikely to be an effective strategy against them.  So if there were military outside, I doubt that they would have even engaged in such a form of defence.  However, such a defence might be something that you would try if there was some kind of animal/beast outside.  Another possibility is that something drove them to behave irrationally.  Drugs, food poisoning, altitude sickness etc.  when you then consider the fact that nothing was taken from the tent that we know of, the tent contents were left in a relatively orderly way, the cameras were left in the tent, diaries were left in the tent,  whilst the hikers left with a camera (subsequently not removed either), matches, at least one knife, a flashlight then it presents a picture that is very unlikely to have involved other human beings.

On the subject of ape or ape like creature, such an animal would be capable of inflicting all of the injuries with sufficient force to cause the straight line fractures and flail chest injuries.  Thibo's depressed fracture is actually the same shape as a ball of a thumb that belonged to hand 30cm long.  This is about the size of an ape hand and the lengthnof the bruise of Zina's side.  An ape could generate sufficient force to crush Thibo's skull as we see in the autopsy report.  It's interesting that you say that an ape or animal is more likely to apply a consistent technique in its attack, because there is a consistent pattern to the attacks.  Two flail chest injuries and two fractured skull injuries.  The injuries are consistent with being knocked to the ground and hit with powerful blows.  It's clear that the chest injuries were received while Lyuda and Semyon were on the ground.  This is based on the angle that such a blow would have to come from.  It is possible that all of the injuries came from falls, but the lack of associated injuries to limbs and other body parts is very unlikely.  It's also unlikely that all three would have fallen simultaneously and received very similar injuries each of similar force.

Could a human inflict these injuries?  IMO its very unlikely.  More interestingly, why would they do it that way and not just shoot or stab them?  It could not have been to avoid suspicion, because there is nothing more suspicious than the injuries of the rav 4.

Regards

Star man


October 26, 2019, 05:04:42 PM
Reply #349
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I would refer you to the Mihail Sharavin testimony that claims when they found the tent on the  first search, he and another searcher took the ice ax and made a hole in the tent to see if anyone was in there, i.e., one of the hikers possibly alive or deceased. They said the tent contents were catalogued and made note of. So I don't believe anyone or anything entered the tent after the hikers died or were driven from the tent. I believe they were separated by the government military and questioned, beaten each group as they were separated. The attackers huddled together figuring out the statements from the hikers, the  first 5 that were found. As the ravine 4 were building the den, they realized their comrades were murdered and one of them snuck up the cedar and removed clothing still not certain they would be killed, hoping they might be able to survive because they knew they were innocent but the attackers decided they all needed to die and beat and shoved the last 4 into the ravine and that is how their injuries were so much worse.

That is the only explanation I can come up with at this time. It could have been a Yeti but unless it tracked all 3 groups down separately I don't know how that would be possible, but it is still feasible.

Regards, Jarrfan

Hi Jarrfan,

Have a look at the previous post I have made above.

Regards

Star man

October 26, 2019, 05:16:52 PM
Reply #350
Offline

Spygirl 1


I would refer you to the Mihail Sharavin testimony that claims when they found the tent on the  first search, he and another searcher took the ice ax and made a hole in the tent to see if anyone was in there, i.e., one of the hikers possibly alive or deceased. They said the tent contents were catalogued and made note of. So I don't believe anyone or anything entered the tent after the hikers died or were driven from the tent. I believe they were separated by the government military and questioned, beaten each group as they were separated. The attackers huddled together figuring out the statements from the hikers, the  first 5 that were found. As the ravine 4 were building the den, they realized their comrades were murdered and one of them snuck up the cedar and removed clothing still not certain they would be killed, hoping they might be able to survive because they knew they were innocent but the attackers decided they all needed to die and beat and shoved the last 4 into the ravine and that is how their injuries were so much worse.

That is the only explanation I can come up with at this time. It could have been a Yeti but unless it tracked all 3 groups down separately I don't know how that would be possible, but it is still feasible.

Regards, Jarrfan
11
Hi Jarrfan,

Have a look at the previous post I have made above.

Regards

Star man

October 27, 2019, 09:57:44 AM
Reply #351
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jarrfan


Thanks Starman, I will take a look again.

November 06, 2019, 03:55:02 PM
Reply #352
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The link below is to a paper produced by the Sasquatch Genome Project.  I don't think that it has been widely accepted by the scientific community yet.  But it is certainly interesting.  What I found particularly interesting is that not only does it hypothesise the existence of Sasquatch, the DNA sequencing and analysis provides a possible explanation for the origin of the species (if it can be called a species as such).  The results suggest that of the many samples collected and tested they all contained consistent "human" mitochondrial DNA, while the nuclear DNA contained both human sequences and novel sequences and sequences consistent with primate DNA.

Mitochondrial DNA is only passed down from the female, while the nuclear DNA is a mixture of both male parent and female parent DNA? 

What the paper and DNA results suggest is that the samples tested are very likely to be hybrids.  This means that at some time during human history a female human has mated with a primate and had viable offspring.  Interestingly all the mitochondrial DNA is human, suggesting that the original hybrid did not go on to breed with further primates, but likely did mate with further human females. Weird.  Such a hybrid species could have come into existence in relatively recent history.  It means that if the report is genuine and eventually accepted that Sasquatch is a species that has not evolved along the normal tree of life but just appeared suddenly.

This could be evidence of the existence of big foot, or Yeti etc which may have relevance to the dpi and the theories and ideas presented in this thread.  Some interesting light reading anyway.

Regards

Star man

http://sasquatchgenomeproject.org/linked/novel-north-american-hominins-final-pdf-download.pdf

November 06, 2019, 09:14:04 PM
Reply #353
Offline

jarrfan


I don't negate the Yeti or UFO's at this point. The Yeti has been folklore in some areas but there are documented cases in the 1700's and 1800's in the US when it was first being settled. The cases seem the same as the ones that emerge today. An out of way camera placed in a ravine caught a picture of a feline that was allegedly determined to be extinct for hundreds of years.

The possibility of a primate/human breeding does not appear possible to my knowledge. Now, as far as the Neanderthal and the Denisovans is more feasible. There is a small amount of proof of the Denisovan but enough DNA to relate it to Neanderthal.

As far as Neanderthal and human breeding, apparently they did. But the male had to be a modern human and the female had to be a Neanderthal because a human female could not carry a Neanderthal child because of the size of the head and bones. Neanderthal bones were extremely thick and heavy which gave them much strength.

Jarrfan




November 06, 2019, 11:46:31 PM
Reply #354
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hi Jarrfan.  The Big Foot Genome report above is supposed to have analysed a sample from a Sasquatch that they captured on video.  They sequenced the gene for hair colour and found it was human red hair gene.  The animal they recorded had red hair.

I can’t comment on the authenticity of the work or exactly on the origins of the species if the work is authentic.  But the report is there in black and white along with the supplemtary information and they claim to have 3 terabytes of recorded complete genome sequences.  3 complete separate genomes.  They will also have the original samples.  That should be enough data to independently evaluate and peer review the work they have done.  They say that there is such a massive stigma around the suspect that nobody wants to touch it.  They themselves are calling it the Galileo effect. 

So it sounds like there is an opportunity there to either prove the work or the conclusion incorrect - or to make scientific history.

I think Darwin had similar problems when he first proposed that humans had evolved from apes.

Regards
Star man

November 08, 2019, 05:00:41 AM
Reply #355
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Is this a potential scenario for the dpi?

One or more Sasquatch/yeti whatever you want to call them approach the tent out of curiosity and maybe to assess if the hikers are a threat.  They keep their distance.  One of the hikers (Semyon/Thibo),  go outside to relieve themselves and spot them in the beam of their flashlight.  They go back into the tent and warn the others.  Maybe they even make fun of him and enter a comment in The Evening Otorten.  The Yeti come closer to the tent and maybe start throwing snow at them in an attempt to persuade them to move away from their territory.  The hikers panic thinking that lives are at risk and leave the tent heading down the slope.  The yeti follow them keeping their distance and keeping an eye on them as they may be a threat to their family. 

At some point the hikers attack them or throw things at them triggering a protective and defensive response which results in the injuries of the rav 4.  Dyatlov Rustem and Zina head back to the tent but never make it.

Regards

Star man

November 09, 2019, 09:02:40 AM
Reply #356
Offline

Spygirl 1


Is this a potential scenario for the dpi?

One or more Sasquatch/yeti whatever you want to call them approach the tent out of curiosity and maybe to assess if the hikers are a threat.  They keep their distance.  One of the hikers (Semyon/Thibo),  go outside to relieve themselves and spot them in the beam of their flashlight.  They go back into the tent and warn the others.  Maybe they even make fun of him and enter a comment in The Evening Otorten.  The Yeti come closer to the tent and maybe start throwing snow at them in an attempt to persuade them to move away from their territory.  The hikers panic thinking that lives are at risk and leave the tent heading down the slope.  The yeti follow them keeping their distance and keeping an eye on them as they may be a threat to their family. 

At some point the hikers attack them or throw things at them triggering a protective and defensive response which results in the injuries of the rav 4.  Dyatlov Rustem and Zina head back to the tent but never make it.

Regards

Star man

THIS IS NOT THE SASQUATCH DEFINITIVE PROOF I'M REFERRING TO IN PREVIOUS POST!!!

I REPEAT:
THIS IS NOT THE SASQUATCH DEFINITIVE PROOF I'M REFERRING TO IN PREVIOUS POST!!!
(I'll post that later as its kinda lengthy).

Simply just adding to the conversation about Yeti/Menk theory.

So.......

Many US Native American tribes have always been gender neutral or matriarchal. Many tribes also pass their tribal positions from one generation to the next.

This was the case with my Native American friend Rebecca. She was a Medicine Woman of the Kiowa Tribe. Her lineage had been so for many generations.

The US government is rather lenient in allowing certain otherwise illegal items for continued use in Native American practices.

Rebecca is rather elderly. She asked if I would drive her 3-4 hours away.  She had a particular cedar box made to refurbish a bald eagle wing. The wing itself has been passed down for many years used in Kiowa medicinal healing.

She also told me it would be an overnight stay.

I was happy to help out so I drove her......but she failed to tell me we were picking up the box at a BIGFOOT CONVENTION!!!! I swear I had no idea!

The convention was quite an experience.

There were many self- proclaimed scientists/researchers/fanatics. Guessing there was approximately 200 people there when we arrived.

These folks used the terms Sasquatch/Bigfoot interchangeably as I will do here.

Although I was skeptical as any one else I did listen but all was taken with a grain of salt.

Over & over I heard the same thing from this gathering of Sasquatch enthusiasts (their collective thoughts, not mine):

According to them no Sasquatch has ever been caught because they have ability to "sizzle" humans.

They explained that like other animals who have defensive measures ( a skunk who sprays or a rattlesnake rattles) Bigfoot sizzles.

What is a sizzle? If Sasquatch feels threatened or space being invaded they have ability to stare down a predator (human)  Their "telekinesis" sends some sort of energy to humans.

The way it was explained made me think of Superman shooting beams from his eyes to use his x-ray vision.

So with this sizzle energy the human(s) suddenly becomes terrified - hair standing up on back of the neck,  horribly nauseous, the worst migraine ever, etc. It is sheer panic & horror.

The sudden & severe onset of symptoms makes humans flee for safety & away from them.

According to these folks the more of a bad-a$$ some Bigfoot hunter thinks they are the worse they get sizzled!

It also seemed to be a collective mindset that Bigfoot does get curious about humans & want to investigate in the majority of encounters.  That's it-- they are just simply curious.

In  other encounters with humans where there is a raging, screaming Bigfoot is because they feel threatened or they are very ill &/or in pain.

Also of this group's collective belief (don't ask me how they would know)  is Sasquatch
live in family units.

With the DPI anything is possible. Because there is 3 distinctive areas it would seem more than 1 Yeti/Menk would have to be involved.

IMO if Yeti's were involved there would be a a number of scenarios with these 3 components:
1) DPI 9
2) Yeti(s)
3) Miltary "something"

I certainly do NOT believe these hikers were sleeping quietly in the tent & some Yeti(s) became maniacal monsters.

Again-- just food for thought

Happy Trails-
Spygirl 1
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 09:12:20 AM by Spygirl 1 »

November 09, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
Reply #357
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Is this a potential scenario for the dpi?

One or more Sasquatch/yeti whatever you want to call them approach the tent out of curiosity and maybe to assess if the hikers are a threat.  They keep their distance.  One of the hikers (Semyon/Thibo),  go outside to relieve themselves and spot them in the beam of their flashlight.  They go back into the tent and warn the others.  Maybe they even make fun of him and enter a comment in The Evening Otorten.  The Yeti come closer to the tent and maybe start throwing snow at them in an attempt to persuade them to move away from their territory.  The hikers panic thinking that lives are at risk and leave the tent heading down the slope.  The yeti follow them keeping their distance and keeping an eye on them as they may be a threat to their family. 

At some point the hikers attack them or throw things at them triggering a protective and defensive response which results in the injuries of the rav 4.  Dyatlov Rustem and Zina head back to the tent but never make it.

Regards

Star man

THIS IS NOT THE SASQUATCH DEFINITIVE PROOF I'M REFERRING TO IN PREVIOUS POST!!!

I REPEAT:
THIS IS NOT THE SASQUATCH DEFINITIVE PROOF I'M REFERRING TO IN PREVIOUS POST!!!
(I'll post that later as its kinda lengthy).

Simply just adding to the conversation about Yeti/Menk theory.

So.......

Many US Native American tribes have always been gender neutral or matriarchal. Many tribes also pass their tribal positions from one generation to the next.

This was the case with my Native American friend Rebecca. She was a Medicine Woman of the Kiowa Tribe. Her lineage had been so for many generations.

The US government is rather lenient in allowing certain otherwise illegal items for continued use in Native American practices.

Rebecca is rather elderly. She asked if I would drive her 3-4 hours away.  She had a particular cedar box made to refurbish a bald eagle wing. The wing itself has been passed down for many years used in Kiowa medicinal healing.

She also told me it would be an overnight stay.

I was happy to help out so I drove her......but she failed to tell me we were picking up the box at a BIGFOOT CONVENTION!!!! I swear I had no idea!

The convention was quite an experience.

There were many self- proclaimed scientists/researchers/fanatics. Guessing there was approximately 200 people there when we arrived.

These folks used the terms Sasquatch/Bigfoot interchangeably as I will do here.

Although I was skeptical as any one else I did listen but all was taken with a grain of salt.

Over & over I heard the same thing from this gathering of Sasquatch enthusiasts (their collective thoughts, not mine):

According to them no Sasquatch has ever been caught because they have ability to "sizzle" humans.

They explained that like other animals who have defensive measures ( a skunk who sprays or a rattlesnake rattles) Bigfoot sizzles.

What is a sizzle? If Sasquatch feels threatened or space being invaded they have ability to stare down a predator (human)  Their "telekinesis" sends some sort of energy to humans.

The way it was explained made me think of Superman shooting beams from his eyes to use his x-ray vision.

So with this sizzle energy the human(s) suddenly becomes terrified - hair standing up on back of the neck,  horribly nauseous, the worst migraine ever, etc. It is sheer panic & horror.

The sudden & severe onset of symptoms makes humans flee for safety & away from them.

According to these folks the more of a bad-a$$ some Bigfoot hunter thinks they are the worse they get sizzled!

It also seemed to be a collective mindset that Bigfoot does get curious about humans & want to investigate in the majority of encounters.  That's it-- they are just simply curious.

In  other encounters with humans where there is a raging, screaming Bigfoot is because they feel threatened or they are very ill &/or in pain.

Also of this group's collective belief (don't ask me how they would know)  is Sasquatch
live in family units.

With the DPI anything is possible. Because there is 3 distinctive areas it would seem more than 1 Yeti/Menk would have to be involved.

IMO if Yeti's were involved there would be a a number of scenarios with these 3 components:
1) DPI 9
2) Yeti(s)
3) Miltary "something"

I certainly do NOT believe these hikers were sleeping quietly in the tent & some Yeti(s) became maniacal monsters.

Again-- just food for thought

Happy Trails-
Spygirl 1

Thank you for the story about the convention.  Whether or not a Sasquatch has the telepathic ability to sizzle I think if I saw one staring at me while I was in the middle of nowhere it would probably have the same effect as a sizzle anyway.   

Definitive proof would be very useful to support the Yeti hypothesis.  The Sasquatch genome project and the report they have produced is quite convincing and the researchers seem genuine.  They claim to have the data just waiting to be peer reviewed and their manuscript published.

For the dpi if one of the hikers went outside and saw one of these creatures I am sure he would have been very scared and spooked.  I can't help but wonder what the others would have thought when he first warned them?  Would they think he playing a prank and trying to scare them?  If more of them went outside and saw the Yeti  - how would that then play out?  What would happen if the hikers showed signs of aggression toward the creatures?  Would that trigger an aggressive response from them?

Regards

Star man

November 10, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
Reply #358
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient


Thank you for the story about the convention.  Whether or not a Sasquatch has the telepathic ability to sizzle I think if I saw one staring at me while I was in the middle of nowhere it would probably have the same effect as a sizzle anyway.   

Definitive proof would be very useful to support the Yeti hypothesis.  The Sasquatch genome project and the report they have produced is quite convincing and the researchers seem genuine.  They claim to have the data just waiting to be peer reviewed and their manuscript published.

For the dpi if one of the hikers went outside and saw one of these creatures I am sure he would have been very scared and spooked.  I can't help but wonder what the others would have thought when he first warned them?  Would they think he playing a prank and trying to scare them?  If more of them went outside and saw the Yeti  - how would that then play out?  What would happen if the hikers showed signs of aggression toward the creatures?  Would that trigger an aggressive response from them?

Regards

Star man
[/quote]

 [[  What would happen if the hikers showed signs of aggression toward the creatures?  Would that trigger an aggressive response from them? ]] I have often pondered that one. I think the answer is YES.
DB

November 10, 2019, 02:38:16 PM
Reply #359
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
When humans are scared it is natural for them to become defensive and sometimes aggressive in response.  That may have been taken as a threat and triggered a reciprocal response.

Regards

Star man