September 17, 2019, 01:22:47 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Exploring The Yeti Theory  (Read 2803 times)

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September 04, 2019, 08:56:41 AM
Reply #270
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Star man

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It wasn't all blood in the stomach, but still....  she had massive internal bleeding.   Whats the point?  Are you suggesting that blood in the stomach can ONLY be a result of yeti ripping out the tongue?

How else could the blood have gotten into her stomach?  Unlikely from internal bleeding into plural cavity.

Regards

Star man

September 04, 2019, 09:08:51 AM
Reply #271
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Loose}{Cannon

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Unlikely from internal bleeding into plural cavity.

Says who?

Ever had a nose bleed?  You don't know whether or not she had a busted lip, or bit her own tongue prior to dying and subsequently it rotting away.    whist1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

September 04, 2019, 10:13:38 AM
Reply #272
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Loose}{Cannon

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How does Bigfoot cause them to have aortas three times the size they should be? 

The tonge....  please perform an experiment.  Put on a  catchers mitt and attempt an extraction on a family member? 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

September 04, 2019, 10:15:33 AM
Reply #273
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Star man

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Quote
Unlikely from internal bleeding into plural cavity.

Says who?

Ever had a nose bleed?  You don't know whether or not she had a busted lip, or bit her own tongue prior to dying and subsequently it rotting away.    whist1

Yeah, could have been a nose bleed or bleeding mouth.

So being objective:

No tongue + unusual hyoid bone + blood could be a result of:

Natural decay
Or
Predation
Or
Violent attack

Any other options?

Regards
Star man

September 04, 2019, 10:29:13 AM
Reply #274
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Loose}{Cannon

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No tongue + extraordinary movement of the hyoid bone + blood could be a result of:

fixed it for ya. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

September 05, 2019, 05:01:56 AM
Reply #275
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sarapuk

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Where do I currently stand on this?

As I said above I am not claiming that the dpi was caused by a Yeti.  We don’t know if they exist.  However if you laid out all of the current theories in a circle and placed a indicative evidence compass in the middle I would say that to me it seems to be pointing strongly at the possibility of some kind of large powerful ape like creature and slightly towards the military test.  The only known species of ape I think is capable of causing those injury patterns is a Gorilla.  So I still think the compass is pointing towards the military test using some kind of ape as a test subject:

Ape + radiation + cover up =?

But if it wasn’t something like that then it seems to me that we are left with the really bizarre possibilities of a Yeti or some other weird thing.

Regards

Star man

We are moving towards the unknown. When I first came upon this Dyatlov Mystery My first thoughts was that it was some kind of Creature, whether of this World or whatever. Then I became interested in the UFO reports. And then the Radiation reports. ETC ETC.

I think it's important to have an open mind on these things.  It is equally important to have the devils advocate who challenges the strange and weird ideas.  LC does a good job at this but I am surprised that there are not more?  All ideas, theories and evidence needs to be tested.

One thing though.  Like all criminal cases the dpi requires evidence.  How do we get this evidence:

Existing case files
People visiting the area and investigating themselves ( take hat off to you)
Converting existing ambiguous evidence into solid evidence through analytical techniques and expertise.

Regards

Star man

Yes we certainly need this sort of cross examination etc. Despite the fact that this Dyatlov Incident is now 60 years old its only in more recent times that proper Investigating as been done. Well as far as we know. Because we do not know whether or not the Authorities have been doing anything in secret. There is certainly a lot of MISSING EVIDENCE.
DB

September 05, 2019, 05:07:33 AM
Reply #276
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sarapuk

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There is a lot of information available in the case files on the clothing.  We know what they were wearing, whether it was torn, cut or burned.  We not whether it was shabby or not.  But another question for me is where is the analysis of the biological samples - blood stains - although DNA analysis was nt available in 1959 blood groups were easily discernible and the difference between human and non human blood types could be resolved.  Again in a criminal investigation would you not look for blood groups that did not match the hikers?  These are just some peculiarities.

Regards

Star man

Maybe the Authorities did check up on that. And maybe they found something interesting. And maybe with the other factors it led them to IMMEDIATELY close the Case and seal off the area in question for several years.
DB

September 05, 2019, 05:17:42 AM
Reply #277
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sarapuk

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Welp....   the three males were on their side with their mouths facing down stream. Think about sticking your head out of a car window at speed.... is there a difference between facing the airstream vs the back of your head towards the airstream?  In addition, the female had the weight of her upper body slumped of a rock applying pressure in odd areas, most likely the neck.  In addition, if the tongue was rotten, and the mouth open facing the incoming water stream, it would flop around in the mouth.  The hyoid bone is connected to the tongue just below the jaw and controls movement of the tongue particularly when swallowing.... what you you think will happen to a bone that controls the tongue in a facing the water stream plopping around while rotten will do to the hyoid bone?   Perhaps give it some "unusual" movement?    Remember, if the tongue was missing from decomposition but the hyoid bone remains without the flesh that it connects to..... would it have movement?   Again, if you lay out a dead fish to decompose and the flesh is rotten and even missing around the ribs..... would the ribs have movement?   

This is common sense stuff that shouldn't have to be explained in detail.

Its a shame that the Autopsy Reports were not more SPECIFIC. So many factors in The Dyatlov Case point to something not quite right.  Also in the Autopsy Report were there is the possibility of a Crime having been committed you would have thought that there would have been some kind of explanation regarding the Unusual Movement of the Hyoid Bone. Any Medical Experts out there  !  ? 
DB

September 05, 2019, 05:21:47 AM
Reply #278
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sarapuk

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Ok.  Some good points.  We should probably expect a faster rate of decay given that Lyuda face and open mouth was directly in the flow of the water.  But the mention of “unusual “ movement of the hyoid in Lyuda autopsy report is still suspicious, especially as the autopsy reports of the others specifically mention that they are intact.  Why differentiate between those with intact hyoid bone and those with “unusual “ movement?

The autopsy reports do not mention any other type of intact bones.  He didn’t say ankle bones were in intact for instance.  Why specifically mention the hyoid bone?

Regards

Star man

Probably because like so many other aspects of this Dyatlov Case something is not quite right. Any Autopsy Report were there is the possibility of Criminal Action having taken place, will be more SPECIFIC.
DB

September 05, 2019, 05:38:29 AM
Reply #279
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sarapuk

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Your in luck.   

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=187.0

Quote
The situation regarding the eyes, perhaps tongue, etc could certainly be postmortem predation.  I would likely give the original pathologist benefit of the doubt on their interpretation.


https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-355-357?rbid=17743

Quote
Damage to the soft tissue of the head and ‘bath skin’ wrinkling to the extremities are the post-mortem changes (rot and decay) of Dubinina’s body, which was underwater before it was found.

Quote
When palpating the neck, there is extraordinary mobility of the thyrohyal and thyroid cartilages.

Quote
Diaphragm of mouth and tongue absent. The upper margin of the hyoid bone is exposed.

Quote
There is no tongue in the oral cavity. Mucous cavities of the mouth are gray-greenish in color



Interesting.   Damage to the soft tissue of the head and ‘bath skin’ wrinkling to the extremities are the post-mortem changes (rot and decay) of Dubinina’s body, which was underwater before it was found.

The death of Dubinina is through violence.

Medical examiner signature (Vozrozhdenny)

So if Dubininas body was underwater then we should have expected more ROT and DECAY  !  ?  So why wasnt more of the Body Soft Tissues MISSING etc. Why just those at the Head part of the Body  !  ? 
DB

September 09, 2019, 07:58:40 AM
Reply #280
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Star man

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Your in luck.   

http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=187.0

Quote
The situation regarding the eyes, perhaps tongue, etc could certainly be postmortem predation.  I would likely give the original pathologist benefit of the doubt on their interpretation.


https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-355-357?rbid=17743

Quote
Damage to the soft tissue of the head and ‘bath skin’ wrinkling to the extremities are the post-mortem changes (rot and decay) of Dubinina’s body, which was underwater before it was found.

Quote
When palpating the neck, there is extraordinary mobility of the thyrohyal and thyroid cartilages.

Quote
Diaphragm of mouth and tongue absent. The upper margin of the hyoid bone is exposed.

Quote
There is no tongue in the oral cavity. Mucous cavities of the mouth are gray-greenish in color



Interesting.   Damage to the soft tissue of the head and ‘bath skin’ wrinkling to the extremities are the post-mortem changes (rot and decay) of Dubinina’s body, which was underwater before it was found.

The death of Dubinina is through violence.

Medical examiner signature (Vozrozhdenny)

So if Dubininas body was underwater then we should have expected more ROT and DECAY  !  ?  So why wasnt more of the Body Soft Tissues MISSING etc. Why just those at the Head part of the Body  !  ?

The dpi is a complicated mystery made up of different components:

The tent
The slope
The cedar
The ravine

Each of the above components has sub components. 

Each of the components and sub components may have different possible explanations and taken in isolation they may seem justified.  The problem comes when you try to explain each of the explanations of the various components in a logical and sensible way.  If it doesn’t fit together holistically the narrative soon unravels.

For example the facial injuries and the tongue could very well have been the result of decay and predation, but we are still left with three bodies each with major trauma that is uncharacteristic of them all falling and which requires forced beyond normal human capabilities.  The autopsy reports their deaths as violent.  So then you ask yourself is it likely or unlikely that the facial injuries and tongue are natural decay and predation? 

Just to illustrate this principle using an analogy:

If you discovered a body on the beach with a severed leg lying next to it, and several metres away there was also a beached dead great white shark, how would you conclude the persons leg was severed?  It could have been a result of a boating accident?  It could have been severed by jagged rocks? Both are possible.  Or would you think there was a good chance that the shark had something to do with it?

Regards

Star man

« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 02:01:40 PM by Star man »

September 09, 2019, 09:20:44 PM
Reply #281
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jarrfan


My own personal thoughts on the missing tongue is that yes, it could have been from insects/fish but why was the tongue exposed in the first place? It appears from the autopsy Lyudia had red substance in her stomach, which could have been blood. I don't know what else it could have been. If the tongue was cut/bitten and there was blood in the mouth, that would signal insects/fish to that area of her body. I can only assume the eyes were the result of insects/fish/decay. But the tongue very well may have been bitten half off which would draw predatory insects.

How far into the water was her body and for how long? total of 3 months or only wet for 1 month  or even 2 weeks? This  info would factor into the tongue being eaten by insects as otherwise she was frozen completely until starting to defrost. Dyatlov was frozen but pretty much exposed and his eyes were not missing. So, it is a question and a mystery.

That is my thought on the tongue being missing....

September 09, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
Reply #282
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Star man

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My own personal thoughts on the missing tongue is that yes, it could have been from insects/fish but why was the tongue exposed in the first place? It appears from the autopsy Lyudia had red substance in her stomach, which could have been blood. I don't know what else it could have been. If the tongue was cut/bitten and there was blood in the mouth, that would signal insects/fish to that area of her body. I can only assume the eyes were the result of insects/fish/decay. But the tongue very well may have been bitten half off which would draw predatory insects.

How far into the water was her body and for how long? total of 3 months or only wet for 1 month  or even 2 weeks? This  info would factor into the tongue being eaten by insects as otherwise she was frozen completely until starting to defrost. Dyatlov was frozen but pretty much exposed and his eyes were not missing. So, it is a question and a mystery.

That is my thought on the tongue being missing....

My own personal thoughts on the missing tongue is that yes, it could have been from insects/fish but why was the tongue exposed in the first place? It appears from the autopsy Lyudia had red substance in her stomach, which could have been blood. I don't know what else it could have been. If the tongue was cut/bitten and there was blood in the mouth, that would signal insects/fish to that area of her body. I can only assume the eyes were the result of insects/fish/decay. But the tongue very well may have been bitten half off which would draw predatory insects.

How far into the water was her body and for how long? total of 3 months or only wet for 1 month  or even 2 weeks? This  info would factor into the tongue being eaten by insects as otherwise she was frozen completely until starting to defrost. Dyatlov was frozen but pretty much exposed and his eyes were not missing. So, it is a question and a mystery.

That is my thought on the tongue being missing....

The red substance in the stomach probably was blood.  The question is where was it from.  There are several plausible explanations including:

Bleeding from the nose.  Lyuda’s nose cartilage was flattened, possibly by some kind of impact/blow.  It could have been blood from this.  It could have been from bleedingl lips, gums etc or it could be because her tongue was bitten off or ripped out. 

You make a good point about the partial damage biting of the tongue and subsequent acceleration of decay.  I think it is a good question about how long the body was in the water.

I don’t think we will be able to answer all these questions with any certainty without additional forensic evidence though.

Sometimes though, the absence of evidence is almost as striking as the evidence itself imo.  A kind of smoking gun as the saying goes.  An example of this imp is the absence of detailed forensic information about the foot prints. 

Everything leaves a trace.

Regards

Star man

September 15, 2019, 04:06:34 PM
Reply #283
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Star man

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Was the door to the tent fully open, partially open or closed that night on the pass?  Was just reading Akselrod's statement again and he states that only some of the toggles were open.  He also states that the back of the tent is pulled tight and therefore it would be difficult for someone to crawl out.  Is there any other evidence or information on whether the door was found open or closed?  Or is Akselrod simply relaying what he thinks may have happened? This information may be important.

Regards

Star man

« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 04:24:02 AM by Star man »

September 16, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Reply #284
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Loose}{Cannon

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There are conflicting statements within the case files.... WAB says the opening had the lower section unbuttoned and it is possible for humans to enter/exit in that configuration. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

September 16, 2019, 02:07:58 PM
Reply #285
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Star man

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There are conflicting statements within the case files.... WAB says the opening had the lower section unbuttoned and it is possible for humans to enter/exit in that configuration.

WAB's statement would align with Akselrod's then.  Probably wouldn't need much of an opening to crawl in or out.  Slobstov found the tent, but haven't seen any statements he made about whether the toggles were fastened or not.  I'll continue to peruse the files.  Thanks.

Regards

Star man