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Author Topic: Question and Answer: What do you guys think?  (Read 609 times)

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December 07, 2017, 10:30:59 AM
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Armide


Because this forum is extremely diverse in terms of opinions and ideas, I thought it might be interesting to do a sort of Q&A with the members of this forum! Below are a series of popular questions on the topic of the Dyatlov Pass incident, so go ahead and post your response with the respective numbers. It might be an interesting way to introduce ourselves and our ideas and our opinions on the matter! Here they are:

1. In your opinion, what's the most overlooked detail of the whole incident?

2. What's one unimportant detail that you think people give too much importance?

3. Do you believe in some kind of government involvement? If so, how?

4. Do you believe the death of the nine hikers was somehow caused by faults made my the group itself? If so, which ones?

5. What do you think caused the injuries found on the bodies? (Missing tongue, head trauma, broken ribs, etc.)

6. Where do you think the radiation came from?

7. If you could ask one question to anyone involved in the accident (not counting the victims) what would it be and why?

8. Do you believe there is some kind of missing information that could potentially solve the mystery? If so, what?

9. What is something (in relation to the accident) that you wish people knew more about? Why?

10. In your opinion, what is the least plausible theory? Why?

11. In your opinion, what is the most plausible theory? Why?

12. What is your favorite source of information on the matter, and was it the same one that got you hooked on the Dyatlov Pass Incident? If not, what was it that made you interested in the incident?

December 07, 2017, 10:37:36 PM
Reply #1
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
GREAT THREAD IDEA!    Here goes mine. 

(disclaimer)
I can change my mind on a dime.   grin1


1. In your opinion, what's the most overlooked detail of the whole incident?
Bread.....  lots and lots of rye bread. Several pictures eating it with loggers and reports state the bread was thrown about EVERYWHERE in the tent. Regardless to what theory you subscribe to.... I wanna know why so much freaking bread!

2. What's one unimportant detail that you think people give too much importance?
Foot steps...  way too many variables and lack of documentation.

3. Do you believe in some kind of government involvement? If so, how?
Yes, I think the gov 'may' have had a methanol spill in the area

4. Do you believe the death of the nine hikers was somehow caused by faults made my the group itself? If so, which ones?
Most times people die or go missing in the wild its because of several bad decisions. In this case it starts with the route deviation, where they dug in etc.....

5. What do you think caused the injuries found on the bodies? (Missing tongue, head trauma, broken ribs, etc.)
Wow... this one can be a book!  Some are frostbite, some are scavengers, some I swear are hand/hand combat type wounds, falling into ravine onto rocks below, or being tossed there. Missing tongue is from rotting/thawing face down in a running creek... same with eyes.

6. Where do you think the radiation came from?
Several of the group worked with enriching uranium and/ or were apart of a cleanup team that did exactly that just prior.... OR, was Igors "radio" study actually the type that goes boom and he had another home made heater that uses no wood. Radio isotope heater....  Surely that found in the tent would be embarrassing for the state and would be covered up rapidly.

7. If you could ask one question to anyone involved in the accident (not counting the victims) what would it be and why?
Ivanov....   Why are you so freaking computation?

8. Do you believe there is some kind of missing information that could potentially solve the mystery? If so, what?
Lots of stuff not released Im sure....  could be one of a million things.

9. What is something (in relation to the accident) that you wish people knew more about? Why?
Within the tent contents there was a small figurine of a hedgehog, and the owner is still a mystery.... because its interesting


10. In your opinion, what is the least plausible theory? Why?
Magnetic field levitation or whatever... because thousands of people have been there since and no such event has happen.

11. In your opinion, what is the most plausible theory? Why?
This week....  its mass hysteria from ergot poisoning.  Ask me next week.  lol

12. What is your favorite source of information on the matter, and was it the same one that got you hooked on the Dyatlov Pass Incident? If not, what was it that made you interested in the incident?
Easy... Dyatlov-pass.com and this forum are the best sources, but I first saw it on the discovery channel, or was it the History channel?  Many years ago, all I remember is radiation, eyes and tongues missing, left tent half naked, cut out of tent in panic etc etc..
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

March 02, 2018, 12:37:34 PM
Reply #2
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SimplyMadness


1. In your opinion, what's the most overlooked detail of the whole incident?
The fact that the rescue volunteers hacked into the tent themselves with icepicks seems pretty major to me. Especially because one of the main details EVERYBODY gets stuck on is the rips in the tent,
 which seem irrelevant to me


2. What's one unimportant detail that you think people give too much importance?
The tears in the tent and the eyes and tongue missing from Lyudmila Dubinina. I mean she was basically a skeleton when found. It's a no brainer why her body didn't have any eyes or tongue.


3. Do you believe in some kind of government involvement? If so, how?
I don't think the government killed them, accidentally or otherwise, but it seems likely that they would cover up things that would make soviet society look bad or any details that would not sit well with their ideals. Like if there was any evidence that the group had been doing some kind of drugs. In my opinion that would be quickly hidden away from the prudish soviet society. It would be better to pretend like it was some freak accident than to face the embarrassment of these perfect, young soviet pupils getting high and getting themselves killed.

4. Do you believe the death of the nine hikers was somehow caused by faults made my the group itself? If so, which ones?
Yes. Firstly, they had actually strayed off their intended path due to bad weather conditions, then the tent was set up in a poor spot away from the cover of the forest. Then of course they must have lost their cool and left the safety of their tent to die of exposure. When it's -22 degrees Fahrenheit outside, it doesn't take many mistakes to get yourself killed. I'm also starting to think there may have been some actual fighting among the group as well.

5. What do you think caused the injuries found on the bodies? (Missing tongue, head trauma, broken ribs, etc.)
Natural decomposition and injuries related to falling on rocks which one would expect from people wondering around a mountain at night. Also I agree that some of the injuries seem like fights had broken out. In particular Rustem Slobodin. I think he very well may have had his lights punched out for whatever reason.

6. Where do you think the radiation came from?
What Loose Canon said.

7. If you could ask one question to anyone involved in the accident (not counting the victims) what would it be and why?
I would ask pathologist Vozrozhdenny if he was sipping vodka during the autopsies. Why so vague? Why so rushed?

8. Do you believe there is some kind of missing information that could potentially solve the mystery? If so, what?
Missing toxicology report?

9. What is something (in relation to the accident) that you wish people knew more about? Why?
Survival in extremely cold conditions.. could come in handy

10. In your opinion, what is the least plausible theory? Why?
Anything supernatural.

11. In your opinion, what is the most plausible theory? Why?
There are several that are plausible.. anything ranging from infrasound to drugs to an avalanche false alarm etc etc

12. What is your favorite source of information on the matter, and was it the same one that got you hooked on the Dyatlov Pass Incident? If not, what was it that made you interested in the incident?
This website has been the best source of info by far. Followed by Donnie Eichar's book.

March 17, 2018, 11:48:18 AM
Reply #3
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Because this forum is extremely diverse in terms of opinions and ideas, I thought it might be interesting to do a sort of Q&A with the members of this forum! Below are a series of popular questions on the topic of the Dyatlov Pass incident, so go ahead and post your response with the respective numbers. It might be an interesting way to introduce ourselves and our ideas and our opinions on the matter! Here they are:

1. In your opinion, what's the most overlooked detail of the whole incident?

The fact that the injuries suffered by the victims were all consistent with there being an attack on the group, and that the ravine close to the so-called "den" was not nearly deep enough to bring death by falling. Also the group's leader Igor Dyatlov must have been attacked; he bore signs of having been tied hands and feet in order to hasten his death by exposure.

2. What's one unimportant detail that you think people give too much importance?

The supposed cutting of the tent from the inside. Even if the tent was likely cut from the inside, that does not tell us who cut the tent.

One female seamstress claimed that the cuts were made from the inside, and another (unnamed) investigator later supported that assessment. However, there is no adequate report of how exactly this conclusion was arrived at. Moreover, all the knives belonging to the trekkers stayed in their sheaths inside of the tent, and no knife was ever found outside - not at the fire under the cedar and not at the "den" where the last four members of the team had fled from their attackers. It seems probable that the attackers cut the tent, either in the process of forcing the nine victims out or because they wanted to render the tent unusable.

3. Do you believe in some kind of government involvement? If so, how?

There evidently was a government involvement in preventing the investigation from going deeply enough into the matter to prove that the tragic death of the nine trekkers were the result of a resourceful, intelligent and well planned attack. Why the government would prevent the case to be fully solved, is a good question - but we cannot know the answer unless someone talks.

4. Do you believe the death of the nine hikers was somehow caused by faults made my the group itself? If so, which ones?

Judging from all the evidence we have, first and foremost the autopsy reports, the only responsible were the ones who - with almost full certainty - attacked and killed the whole Dyatlov group. One can make the case that the Dyatlov group were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it is those who commit a crime which are responsible for the deed.

5. What do you think caused the injuries found on the bodies? (Missing tongue, head trauma, broken ribs, etc.)

The missing tongue could have been cut out by a knife, but unless there is clear evidence of a knife cut it seems likely that since Dubinina's corpse was in an advanced state of decomposition the tongue had been rotting away.

The other injuries were without exception consistent with an attack. Those four who supposedly died last show clear indications that they were attacked with lethal force. Contrary to a belief that is rather widespread, the severe fatal injuries could not be the result of a fall because the ravine was not deep enough to cause death by a single fall. The injuries found on the bodies were of a type typically seen when humans with evil intent attack. It does not take a bomb blast or superhuman strength to cause injuries like the broken ribs of Dubinina and Zolotaryov. Repeated very hard blows to the rib cage or the jumping up and down on the person would lead to precisely this kind of damage. The absence of outer bruises on the rib cages of these two is as expected, as they were rather well dressed. The same is true for Thibeaux-Brignolles. He had massive head trauma with multiple fractures of the skull without damaged skin, and this was natural when he wore headgear that protected the soft tissue but could not stop the force from the hard blows which crushed bone. The injuries of Kolevatov also demonstrated that he had been attacked. His broken nose couid theoretically have resulted from a fall and the same with the deformed neck, but not the wound behind his ear - and together these injuries strongly suggest that Kolevatov was murdered.

6. Where do you think the radiation came from?

There is no record of any incident or explosion in the area that could have exposed the group to radioactivity, so to me it seems probable that the clothes were already contaminated from before.

7. If you could ask one question to anyone involved in the accident (not counting the victims) what would it be and why?

Then I would ask Vozrozhdenny and the other investigators and experts what they withheld from the public and why.

8. Do you believe there is some kind of missing information that could potentially solve the mystery? If so, what?

The only thing that can definitely solve the case, is if some of those who know what happened at the fateful night in 1959 finally break their silence and talk.

9. What is something (in relation to the accident) that you wish people knew more about? Why?

I would encourage people to read the autopsy reports closely. I would also want more people to be aware that the very serious and fatal damage to the four who were found last cannot possibly be caused by a fall in the area where they were found, and that all the injuries were typical of what can be expected as a result of an attack with evil intent. I would also point out that there is no indication whatsoever that the group members fought each other. The diaries and the pictures all betray a friendly atmosphere, and there was no history of these people having been hostile to each other.

10. In your opinion, what is the least plausible theory? Why?

Supernatural ones are in my opinion clearly the least plausible ones. Every piece of evidence indicates that the Dyatlov Pass Tragedy were caused by perfectly physical entities.

11. In your opinion, what is the most plausible theory? Why?

The most plausible theory is in my opinion that the whole Dyatlov group was attacked by human beings who came to take their lives. The injuries when analyzed and the fact that they all died lead to this unpleasant but realistic conclusion.

12. What is your favorite source of information on the matter, and was it the same one that got you hooked on the Dyatlov Pass Incident? If not, what was it that made you interested in the incident?

This web page sparked my interest. I particularly like the autopsy reports, which tell us a lot when carefully read. Also, I have found that Svetlana Oss' book "Don't Go There" is recommendable and contains a lot of very enlightening and valuable information even though I will also emphasize that no one can say with certainty who killed the Dyatlov group unless someone who knows comes forward with the full story of who the killers were.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 11:53:10 AM by Per Inge Oestmoen »

April 25, 2018, 04:34:25 PM
Reply #4
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CalzagheChick


Because this forum is extremely diverse in terms of opinions and ideas, I thought it might be interesting to do a sort of Q&A with the members of this forum! Below are a series of popular questions on the topic of the Dyatlov Pass incident, so go ahead and post your response with the respective numbers. It might be an interesting way to introduce ourselves and our ideas and our opinions on the matter! Here they are:

Modified by OP 5/21/18  thumb1

1. In your opinion, what's the most overlooked detail of the whole incident?
Wow, what a great question. It's so hard to pin-point just one detail that gets treated as an afterthought. Sometimes I feel like the only person in existence actively questioning the level of decomposition of the Rav 4 bodies. Not only do I question the level of decay having been preserved underneath snow & ice for three months in minus zero temperatures/conditions EVEN WITH THE IMPENDING SPRING THAW, but  I am beginning to question my understanding of science and the laws of biology/chemistry as I've always understood them:

Freezing temperature preserve biological matter. As I resigned myself to explaining Dubinina's missing glossal tissues as the result of naturally-present microbes in the running creek bed in which the bodies were discovered, I still can't get over the fact that I've always understood those microbes, particularly those heavily documented in the study and science of decaying human bodies, aren't particularly active in sub zero temperatures. Again, this is a highly documented phenomenon. Have we gone back to spontaneous regeneration and other medieval laws of science? When you leave a piece of meat outside in room temperature conditions and above then come back to it a week later, the meat didn't turn into a crawling pile of maggots through magic and an act of God. We now know that flies and other insects laid eggs on the decaying matter, recognized by smell and heat, which flourished on the pile of rotten tissue as it produced gases and other molecules that naturally sustain the embryonic stage of life for insects.

This doesn't happen to the chicken legs that I just put in my freezer (maintained at 0 degrees.) In fact, all I need to do is pull out my chicken legs and thaw them responsibly in cold conditions to prevent those dormant microbes from going to town on my hard earned dollars and spoiling my kids' dinner. By doing this, I will find perfectly preserved meat arguably as fresh as the day it was killed or bought or whatever you want to say. So why didn't this happen with the Rav 4?

Any plates I've ever streaked in microbiology were always incubated at body temperatures: roughly 97-98 degrees Farenheit. We know that the body increases it's temperature to febrile conditions in order to burn off illness-inducing bacterial infections. Conditions in the sub zero renders most living organisms dormant if it does not kill them (as in the case of human beings who generally succumb to hypothermia rather than just systematically shut down to remain dormant until a later thaw.) Please tell me I'm not the only person that just can't explain this away.

2. What's one unimportant detail that you think people give too much importance?
A couple things:
a) The medicinal alcohol on the inventory lists later found by the first search & rescue team and cracked open to be enjoyed while their comrades' frozen bodies unknowingly lay buried in the snow nearby.
b) The radioactivity on select items of clothing found with the Rav4. I think this detail has been grossly blown out of proportion and for whatever reason it exists, it's become a massive red herring.
c) Zinaida's romantic involvement. Although I see no evidence that she was romantically involved with any of the men in this party, it is highly speculated that she was in fact the girlfriend of Igor. I don't believe this. I believe they majored in the same study at UPI and were very close friends with common interests. Her past relationship with Yuri Doroshenko was long over and she even writes about her secret jealousy when she sees him holding hands with a girl in the Blinov party shortly before both parties split (feelings I can relate to as a woman of course.)

3. Do you believe in some kind of government involvement? If so, how?
I absolutely believe the government was involved, however more as a matter of national security. We must not forget this was the height of the Cold War in 1959. In America, elementary school children were having regular drills for a nuclear event. Emigrants unfamiliar with snow would panic at the sight of inclement weather thinking it was fallout. That all being said, as an American of 34 years, I always pictured the Soviet government as being able to make people, places, and things just disappear. So why leave everything on the slope to be found. It seems it would have been easier to just make it a missing persons case than this huge mystery that doesn't add up were this truly a government act.

4. Do you believe the death of the nine hikers was somehow caused by faults made my the group itself? If so, which ones?
I don't. The thing is, I'm just not a huge believer in coincidence. If the ENTIRE group of 9 people met their demise on this slope because of reckless camping skills or decisions then these were THE unluckiest people to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact remains that all 9 were highly experienced with this type of trek, and they went on this mission very well prepared--fully capable. I've yet to come upon any argument that they were ill-prepared. The highly planned trip to Otorten was simply a matter of getting a piece of paper from the Communist Party stating that these individuals were a level 3. Several of them, particularly the women, even had experience with unexpected and emergent events while hiking in the wilderness with no help to be had until the end of their tours. This trip was important to them. Clearly they remained in excellent spirits to the day the diary entries abruptly stopped. I don't see them jeopardizing their mission with drugs or alcohol. I don't see them jeopardizing their own lives or the lives of their peers by acting irrationally or irresponsibly. I certainly don't see this group of people making fatal rookie mistakes on a trip that had so much riding on it for all of them, particularly Zolotaryov whose livelihood depended on this certification.

5. What do you think caused the injuries found on the bodies? (Missing tongue, head trauma, broken ribs, etc.)
As to the internal traumas of the Rav4 particularly, I can only say that an unknown force of high magnitude is responsible. While alive and coherent enough to feel the damage. Every scrape. Every bruise. Every broken part of these kids' bodies. Everyone of them--the physical nature of the damage--I believe to be man-made and that does not exclude themselves (including the women!) being responsible for so much battering. The particularly odd injuries such as missing eyes and tongue I have resolved after a very long time of study to be the result of predation and microbial activity.

6. Where do you think the radiation came from?
I believe the radiation actually came from the source of the clothing. I believe either his person was contaminated at the scene of an incident at a nuclear facility or the clothing was cross contaminated by something in his possession. That's the only sense I can make of it.

7. If you could ask one question to anyone involved in the accident (not counting the victims) what would it be and why?
Yuri Yudin: a) How did this event change the course of your life?
b) How did you cope with knowing you most certainly would have been victim #10, and seeing the treatment your friends received post mortem how did you feel about this?
c) How did losing some of your closest friends affect you having never seen justice for their lives or death?
d) How did these things shape the rest of your life?
e) Did you feel anything when you made your personal trip the Dyatlov Pass, the scene of the incident?
e) Are any of these the reason you became notoriously reclusive?

To All Immediate Families: a) How did this even change your feelings about your government if it changed your feelings at all?
b) How did this even shape the course of your lives knowing such lack of compassion was given to your family?
c) What are your own thoughts on what happened to your babies on that slope?

8. Do you believe there is some kind of missing information that could potentially solve the mystery? If so, what?
I'm honestly at a point with this case that I feel like even if the missing documentation were to somehow surface, none of it would bring us any closer to a solution. In all probability it would just be more vague details from people that don't know anything and won't elaborate on their thoughts. I almost believe that a lot of the missing pieces are a result of the cultural differences--I don't see a whole lot of compassion here surrounding the death of 9 kids that took one hell of a beating. Were any information available to solve the mystery, I think it would come in the form of an eye witness. Maybe not first hand accounts, but rather somebody that overheard a conversation maybe? Something of that nature.

9. What is something (in relation to the accident) that you wish people knew more about? Why?
I wish we knew more about the documented injuries to each and every body in fine detail including possible causes. I think we tend to write the first five off as hypothermia being the cause of death and forget the damage to the bodies of these kids. Every person suffered physical injuries of some form.

10. In your opinion, what is the least plausible theory? Why?
The stove. I believe there would have been an odor detectable were these students smoked out of their tent in an emergency. Smoke is not an odor that dissipates easily. This was a heavy canvas fabric which would hold odors like nobody's business. Nobody noted any such thing and I believe it would have been noted had it existed. Followed by sound waves.  The odds of all nine students being affected by sound waves capable of producing feelings of panic, sickness, and fear in only a fraction of the test population? Come on, it's a stretch. A couple *may* have been potential candidates for feeling these effects, but I highly doubt all 9 student would fall victim to the potential effects of the low sound waves. Gravitational fluctuation and ball lightning are as far fetched and irrelevant as aliens. They don't make the list.

11. In your opinion, what is the most plausible theory? Why?
I can't bring myself to resign myself to any theory. I just can't. Nothing fits and without more proof it's unfair to blame soldiers or native tribes. I am convinced that the Rav 4 perished due to avalanche. As for why they all fled their shelter to begin with and all ended up frozen on a mountain, I simply don't know. I'm stuck between murder and some natural phenomenon.

12. What is your favorite source of information on the matter, and was it the same one that got you hooked on the Dyatlov Pass Incident? If not, what was it that made you interested in the incident?
I actually go through this in some detail in my introduction to the group. I fell down the Dyatlov rabbit hole and found myself becoming more and more obsessed with the facts of the case. I'm hypersensitive to the actual human beings these people were. They deserved justice. Their families had to continue on never knowing what happened to their babies. Those were their children for Pete's sake. I just can't wrap my mind around the grief those closest to this group must have experienced. So that's what keeps me passionate about Dyatlov. Svetlana Oss wrote an amazing book proposing her murder theory. Although I don't treat her book as the Gospel on the DPI, I think her book was among the more well written. Donnie Eichar's book Dead Mountain was easy for me to digest because he was an American in unchartered territory which is much how I feel on the outside of all of this to this day--almost unwelcome to the forums because why would I care about Soviet students from 60 years ago that perished on a mountain ski trip in the Northern Urals? I do care. They were people for crying out loud. They deserved so much more compassion than what they received.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 11:12:31 AM by CalzagheChick »

April 25, 2018, 09:00:11 PM
Reply #5
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Where did the "alcohol wasn't touched" come from?  Just curious, because a member if the search team drank the damn thing day 1 of finding the tent while the victims were still presumed simply lost and would be found nearby at any moment.  So basically the contents of the flask were gone before the contents of the tent were even recorded.    dunno1
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 27, 2018, 06:47:35 PM
Reply #6
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CalzagheChick


Where did the "alcohol wasn't touched" come from?  Just curious, because a member if the search team drank the damn thing day 1 of finding the tent while the victims were still presumed simply lost and would be found nearby at any moment.  So basically the contents of the flask were gone before the contents of the tent were even recorded.    dunno1

It's one of the many discrepancies I have written down in my notebook so I'll have to go back and find them, but I swear I came across two separate documents--the first one stated that all the alcohol was accounted for. The second document was like a checklist before they left on their trip stating how many mLs (200 I think? I don't remember). I guess this means I must produce both documents to make sure I've read correctly. I certainly don't want to confuse anybody any further than everything out there that's been embellished, misstated, or just made up completely.