Expedition to Dyatlov Pass thoughts.

[GlennM]

I think the forum would enjoy knowing what particular objectives are on the list for the next expedition. I think the forum would love to weigh in on making suggestions for objectives.

For me, an expedition searching for physical artifacts makes the most sense. Next, an exercise in measuring distances against time would be helpful in order to rule in or rule out possibilities. Third, if any Mansi lore has developed around the event, it is worth noting and reporting.

[amashilu]

Excellent questions, Glenn.
I have copied your post to the "Winter 2025 Expedition" under the subject heading "Expeditions to the Dyatlov Pass" also.

[GlennM]

An expedition might benefit from the addition of a librarian. By this I mean someone both willing and able to find answers in the halls of records from Vizhay to Moscow. Campfire discussions will surely raise questions that need verification. Artifacts too will need authentication. Teddy could use an ally or two to lighten her burden. An on site librarian would enjoy being there to hear the questions and see the sights.

Since much has been made of geology and the link between distant blasting and a fallen tree, is there anything on or around 1079 to support proximity blasting ( to weaken an already unstable tree)? A geologist would be a welcome addition to the team.

[Teddy]

To all members of the forum, you can check this topic to be notified, I will soon pour my soul. I am in the midst of planning how to get my ass back to the pass.
GlennM, thank you for opening the subject, but what do you mean librarian, geologist? What language, what nationality, who is paying for this dream team? I don't have money to get myself three years in a row, although I have very clear idea what to do now.
No foreigner is allowed in any archives. At the moment, not even Russians are. Even if you are, you need to know what are you looking for. And what is that?
I am currently sitting on the geology reports Igor Pavlov found (we published only some relevant pages), because I was warned that I may not get a visa. You think anyone is allowed now to rummage in documents, especially the ones that contain maps?
When you go to the pass for the first time, you are overwhelmed by your survival instincts. It takes 4-5 expeditions to find your bearings.
I didn't mean to open my mouth before I am ready to talk, but you pinched a nerve.
On an expedition it is much more useful to have someone that can lit a fire, pitch a tent, not mind the mosquitos that can bring down a drone, fight a bear, walk 3 weeks in rubber boots through swamps with 70 lbs on his back, handy with a metal detector etc.
Also a link between distant blasting and a fallen tree was never what we had in mind. I always said - the tree fell because it was time to fall.
Why did someone moved the bodies is a mystery. We are pointing a finger to the people that were working there.
My goal is to prove that there was a geologists' activity nearby, not that there is any link between their blasting and the fallen tree.
I don't believe there was.

Don't get me wrong, I am not just criticizing, I am loaded with ideas, but I need to keep in touch with reality. I have to be able to pull it off.
And this time I will ask for help.

[GlennM]

Teddy, thank you for a well worded response. Thank you of wanting this thread to be a portal for expedition related discussion. You stated in another thread that on your last expedition, other explorers were looking clues other than your fallen tree theory. I suggest librarian and,geologist for their skills,,such as actually accessing archives etc.

An expedition member with no skills would be a burden to others. I'm glad you make this clear for armchair experts.Is the forum a good place to set forth participant requirements? I believe you have done so in a general way.

Good,luck,with your tree fall theory. It will take some real effort to get under it to find tent, poles, firepit and anything else. Soundsmlike block and tackle work plus big levers.

Perhaps a geologist in your expedition might know how to get to other geologists who may know something to share in privacy.

I have heard that Saudi Arabians who become interested in things tend to be well funded.

[Teddy]

I will elaborated soon, but I am not looking for a tree theory explicitly. The tree theory and my last two expeditions have thought me a very important scientific fact:
Siberia's special climate preserves things much longer than most places on Earth.
Derivative knowledge:
I know that we can read trash, and that camps used to leave lots of it. I am an expert in dating tin cans.
Any human activity used wood. We can date dead trees, even major damage on living trees i.e. when was a big branch cut or broken. It is determined with dendrology analysis of core samples.
Most importantly - I know on what depth and what class metal detector finds metal objects in the ground from 1959 - 30 cm deep around the cedar.
Amateur metal detectors did not find anything, and one sweep with a higher class found the cream can made in 1958. This is from one hour work.
I need to go back with my own metal detector to spend days in searching and digging. I also have satellite photos of possible geological sites.
But I am alone, I can't drag the whole group, they want to go to Otorten. The rule is not to go in group smaller than 3 people because of the bears. I already had my close encounter with a bear with cubs, and I am still not sure I didn't get eaten and this is all a dream.
I forgot one more skill that is very useful in a team mate - knowing the mushrooms in the Russian taiga. They are so beautiful, but can't keep away the though of Russian roulette at dinner time.











Checking for radioactivity:

[Teddy]

You have to be able to change a tire:



Not to blow up a gas bottle in your face:



ATV after bear attack:

[Teddy]

Finding things in the ground left in 1959 (this can be proved) around the cedar still doesn't mean they were left by the Dyatlov group or geologists. There are also Mansi and the searchers. Fortunately I am friends with Valery Anyamov and Askinadzi. I am going to talk to both after the expedition, show them my findings.

 

[GlennM]

This is excellent! You are giving the forum something to appreciate about your leadership and clear headed thinking. I only eat mushrooms from the grocery or Chinese restaurant.  Bring extra batteries for that detector. Finally, ask the forum if they can recommend sources for sponsors. If mountain climbers can get them, so should you!

[Ziljoe]

A suggestion teddy, I know each season for snow fall, temperature and winds will be different and you don't have endless resources or other groups across the community.

Could it be possible that we join resources and get even basic cameras installed at the ravine and tent location that take time lapse photos every hour or six hours for example.

It could be useful to see the build up of snow on the slope and the ravine. It might take a few years to build up data but if we can organise it on trust across the community and other forums it might help?

[Teddy]

Finally, ask the forum if they can recommend sources for sponsors. If mountain climbers can get them, so should you!

I do not know how to get sponsors and nowadays no one wants to see their name in Russia, so forget it.
Haglöf gave me the special borrer only because I was very persuasive, but they didn't want their name showing in Russia. No one is advertising in Russia right now.
How can anyone justify giving me money that will be spend in Russia?

I will try crowdfunding. I am researching platforms, have tested 4 so far and circled back to Paypal, which are currently working on tickets I filed to fix their problems. Lots of problems. The rest of the platforms when you get to the paying part half of the screen is about their tip which is preset and you have to find the way to make it $0 and instead of thinking how much to donate you have to think why do you need to tip a third party. So I gave up on them. Paypal say they allow fundraising for personal accounts and after 3 days on the phone with their customer services, today, they admitted that the account has to be business. I have a business account, but it says you send money to my company, not me personally. I don't like that. So I am working on a workaround. I will start full blown campaign to raise money perhaps mid April. Then you will have the chance to help if not with money then by publishing the link on social media or just sending it to people that might be interested in the magic and power of the Dyatlov Pass. I will include perks. I have a plan.

A suggestion teddy, I know each season for snow fall, temperature and winds will be different and you don't have endless resources or other groups across the community.
Could it be possible that we join resources and get even basic cameras installed at the ravine and tent location that take time lapse photos every hour or six hours for example.
It could be useful to see the build up of snow on the slope and the ravine. It might take a few years to build up data but if we can organize it on trust across the community and other forums it might help?

Russians thought of that. Hard to change batteries. On the 2022 expedition Korolyov collected a camera that was suppose to take pictures only when something big moves (he was hoping for Yeti), and there was nothing interesting. The Russians have data for every season, for more than 15 years. Aleksander Aleeksenkov (Shura) has been there every winter for the last at least 15 years, taken measurements.
The Russians are all over the pass. There is data. I don't know what does it take to install a camera there and who is going to feed it with batteries and where does it send the information, but for me to actually dive into this I need to understand what will it give us. There no surprises in the weather so far. Weather is too warm, too cold... and what of it?

[Ziljoe]

I was thinking about the actual build up of snow in the ravine . If we could see the formation of the snow and if it could build a snow cave. The extreme of the of the ravine 4 being at stream level and 4 meters of snow above them is where I think the injuries came from.

Only problem is it may take years for a similar build up of snow in the ravine I guess. We can park my suggestion. 

[Teddy]

I was thinking about the actual build up of snow in the ravine . If we could see the formation of the snow and if it could build a snow cave. The extreme of the of the ravine 4 being at stream level and 4 meters of snow above them is where I think the injuries came from.

Only problem is it may take years for a similar build up of snow in the ravine I guess. We can park my suggestion. 

Have you watched the Russian videos? Every year they are digging caves in the ravine, exactly where the bodies were.
====================================================

There are wealthy Russians, like Kireev, that would love to do something about the case. Because they can't think of anything better they pay for signs and monuments. So if there is an idea what could be done for the case on the pass, I can just forward it to them. I have direct contact. But I can not ask them to sponsor my expedition. I already have offers from Russians to pay with transport and maybe the metal detector, so all I need is money for the flight, accommodation, equipment, supplies, train etc. The Russians are helping a lot. But there are things I have to pay myself, and I still haven't paid off the credit cards where I charged my last two expeditions. All I do is balance transfers from one credit card to another. I am very deep in debt. I can't keep doing this. I am considering selling my car. Next thing will be my kidney.

[Ziljoe]

Thanks teddy, I've only seen the one where they dig a hole into the snow bank with a branch.

I'll help when I can though!

[Teddy]

Here are 3 playlists from 3 different winters.
All 3 playlists contain footage of the ravine.

Winter expedition 2024
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4skNRcIkwdnG81Vgxg2nHc_

Winter expedition 2023
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4tRpFBQA8Sv0e6cqA2YmcOL&si=tknviER0XCh7ICfW

Winter expedition 2015
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX6-CuVdsR8399eeEQOt_q9TcvgMwxeqd

[Teddy]

This video was posted for the last week on the DyatlovPass.com home page.
You can find similar videos of the ravine from the last 10-15 years.
You can talk to the people that took the videos, they measure the snow cover, temperature, wind.
We have this information.
We also have the photos from February 1959 so we know how deep the snow was, we see how much the trees roots were covered.
The snow in the ravine is deep but "рыхлый", which translates as light, loose, not heavy and wet.
Oleg Taymen says that he can't see how snow like that can cause any injuries or suffocate you.

[GlennM]

I feel that when your boots are on the ground, you will be better able to judge if getting to Ortoten is best done by the ridge route or the forest route. We accept that the hikers actually crossed over at a higher elevation than Dyatlov Pass, owing to the location of the labaz.

[Teddy]

I am now preparing for a summer expedition. Things are not the same.
Even if i went there in winter, I wouldn't try to comprehend what they did judging by what I feel right.
I would say this and that and it won't proof anything. It won't amount to anything.
The only thing I am good at is finding things.
Have you seen what is there in the ground? Tin cans, axes, nails, utensils, batteries, you name it. They can be dated. See Oleg Taymen's videos in this playlist.

Watch Part 6 and 7
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4tgwJzXqxApUGb7IU-ocJz2

I am not expert in behavioral analysis, what I say doesn't matter.
Kuryakov had two behavioral experts and they they produced complete nonsense.
Seriously, going there and seeing it with your eyes does not solve anything.
The only things all the researchers, from all nationalities, agree on is when something is found. Objects, we need objects where there shouldn't be.
This is what I think.

How many people have said I wouldn't pitch a tent there in winter? Equal number of people have said - no big deal. So what does it matter what I say. I have said it, changed nothing.
 

[Partorg]

I feel that when your boots are on the ground, you will be better able to judge if getting to Ortoten is best done by the ridge route or the forest route

In order to understand which of the two routes (along the Ridge or along the valley) was more preferable for DG (requiring less time and effort) you need to have your boots on the snow and not on the ground. ))
Here is footage that gives some idea of ​​it
This is a video chronicle of a ski trip of a group led by Sergey Markov, organized by the Ural Television Agency in 1999. The route and time of the hike are completely identical to the 1959 DG hike.

https://youtu.be/vo1EVxh8cRQ?si=57d_h2WcOVRL5ZUH   (Part 1)

35:05 - 35:35 ;   35:50 - 40:29;   42:28 - 44:26;   46:29 - 46:54 – Movement up the Auspiya from the mouth to the Pass.
46:55 - exit to the saddle of the Pass and search for the Tent Site.
49:22 - construction of a windproof wall on the slope.

https://youtu.be/4V0NnXL5t_k?si=GKDTcUUtEgjTfOjr (Part 2)
26:10 - February 3. 10 a.m.  Exit to the traverse to Otorten, but getting caught in a snowstorm and deciding to wait it out in the forest, on the western slope of Kholat-Syakhl at the source of the Bolshaya Khozya River.
28:52 - February 4. 9 a.m.  Climbing the Ridge and moving along it to Otorten. Solar halo.
31:00 - 3 p.m. At the top of Otorten. Return to the Pass with an overnight stay in the valley of the 2nd tributary of the river Lozva.

[Ziljoe]

Excellent video. Missing subtitles unfortunately but you can see the effort of traveling through the forest . A bit frustrating not to know what is said but very interesting to see.

[Partorg]

Yes, but there is no particularly useful information in the audio. Listing well-known facts, voicing materials from a criminal case, reading diaries...  Routine.

[Ziljoe]

I recommend people give the above videos a quick watch. It gives an idea of the conditions. Would love to know what the conclusions were.

I noticed that the snow is extremely hard/solid on the exposed slopes. So the searcher's chipping away at the tent makes perfect sense. No foot prints seem to be made in that kind of hard snow....so that brings me back to the time of the incident. There must have been a layer of fresh snow , over 150 mm deep,  minimum ,on top of the hard snow for the foot prints to occur. There must be a humidity or temperature change also. I'll need to find the correct thread to continue.

[Ziljoe]

Thanks Partorg, I was thinking that. I was seeing the same old photos etc. The squeak of the snow has left my hair standing.

[GlennM]

Agreed, excellent video. Clearly there is nothing to be gained by approaching Otorten through the woods. Trekking on the barren ridge makes abundant sense, but is a gamble. The trade off for speed is to travel light and hope the weather holds. It would seem that the hikers wanted to do just that, but were defeated by the wind, snow, fog and darkness. We understand they plowed snow to get from civilization to their last camp. It was tiring work. Who would choose to go into a forest full of obstacles and deep snow when there was an alternative?

I have to commend anyone in the forum who braves the crazy cold to live, work and recreate in snow. I think the romance of the idea  must be stronger than the real hardships. The hardships are considerable.