Theories Discussion > Katabatic wind
The wind plays its own music
Jacques-Emile:
This link seems to be archaic. There is some PDF with Dyatlov topic and Borzhenkov author. Is that the document?
Lupos:
In a few days I will post a new link here that contains all of Dr. Borzenkov corrections. It contains and explains in detail the theory of "Katabatic Wind" more exactly. Unfortunately again in German. The translation into English is too complex. But the text can be understood with a translation program.
After correcting some errors that friendly and interested users informed me, I create a new version 2021.
Ferri Brodge:
--- Quote from: Star man on September 14, 2019, 04:27:55 AM ---One of the problems with this theory is the way that they left the tent. Even if there had been an extreme weather event there is no good reason why you would not get dressed before heading down the mountain. The shoes and boots were accessible. Also why cut your own tent due to extreme weather?
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
My POW:
1) Why do they leave a tent?
As written multiple times above - I suppose, they were in a situation of certain death in a tent. I fully believe, they were sure they will die because of cold. What will you do in a situation of a temperature drop, when you wake up with your limbs ice cold, unable to properly speak. Wait for a dawn and pray or try to obtain some fire?
Also - every single improvement may get feel you better. You are going with the wind - you will feel calming warm in your stomach. Lower you are, better you feel. For a short moment, of course, but this may have a really great psychologicall effect that can lead you down the slope and persuade you to carry on. Also - the vision of a saving fire can be really strong.
2) Why they left their boots behind?
Have you ever tried to put up a leather boot when its ice cold? Its impossible. Especially when you are not able to motor your fingers and your foot is barely movable. This is why you have to sleep with your boots in a sleeping bag. As far as I know, there was a strange pile of everyones boots in one corner of a tent. Maybe they were not carefull enough and left their boots near the enterance - and the late night cold made the leather boot iron. This is also how to explain one-shoe person. He was able to put up just one.
And also - I walked several times without boots in the snow, not just short distances. Really soon, you will feel nothing. Lack of shoes is the last thing you will feel, feet will addapt. If they were in a hurry, boots should seem redundant in a moment.
3) Why they left their clothes behind
This is the weakest part. I don't know. Maybe just the thing they were not able to reach clothes from show-covered tent, maybe the suffer from icy wind and cold was so incredible they cant last any longer
4) Why was the ten torn?
According to diaries, there was an argument about sewing a tent. Isn't it possible that strong wind opened once-sewed hole in a tent and they made it worse trying to fix it from the inside? Maybe this once-sewed hole was made from the inside before and now just apprear againt - this is why the forensis analyzed it as an "inner job". Maybe the torn of the tent was made unintentionally during the nigtime or later evacuation and this made them believe there is no need to stay in a tent.
5) 2 persons with better equipement
In diaries, there are notes about 2-men night watches. So I presume people on the nigth watch were full-equipped. Dyatlov tried to keep the discipline (i.e. the rule "nobody sits near the fire before everything is done), the rule of the full-equipped watch seems realistic to me - just as a policy and sleeping prevention. Maybe these two called for help during the gale and other with no equipement tried to save the tent, then evacuate the campsite in a hurry for the reasons I wrote above (nothing to loose).
Something of these things matches my experience. A many years ago, I went hiking with my friends. Both terrain and weather was really comfortable, nevertheless we were in the situation when we felt live-threatened. Second night of our trip was a temperature drop (from -5 to cca -20 outside) and our sleeping bags were not warm enough. And I can assure you, you will be able to sleep in these conditions and wake up in the moment, when you are not able barely move. First thing we were trying to do is go outside of the tent with no shoes and gear and jump, try to warm yourself up. Last thing you want to try in this state of mind is to put up cold shoes and frozen jacket. Just because you will not feel the difference. All you want is to find out you are still able to move and live.
6) What happend then?
They try to escape extreme cold, used flashlights as a beacon. Near the cedar, they split their roles - one part was trying to obtain green brushwood as an insulation, second part was setting up fire, third was digging a den. After the fire was set and they felt more comfortable, they decided to reach back the tent - three of them died en route. Fire-keepers that borrowed some of their clothes to the friends were not able to keep fire lit and froze to death - maybe the den party was not aware of that and when they come back, they tried to warm-up unconsious friends and accidentally burnt them a bit.
The rest was described many times - last survivors were crushed in their shelter by falling iceroof.
What you think?
Star man:
--- Quote from: Ferri Brodge on January 04, 2020, 02:04:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: Star man on September 14, 2019, 04:27:55 AM ---One of the problems with this theory is the way that they left the tent. Even if there had been an extreme weather event there is no good reason why you would not get dressed before heading down the mountain. The shoes and boots were accessible. Also why cut your own tent due to extreme weather?
Regards
Star man
--- End quote ---
My POW:
1) Why do they leave a tent?
As written multiple times above - I suppose, they were in a situation of certain death in a tent. I fully believe, they were sure they will die because of cold. What will you do in a situation of a temperature drop, when you wake up with your limbs ice cold, unable to properly speak. Wait for a dawn and pray or try to obtain some fire?
Also - every single improvement may get feel you better. You are going with the wind - you will feel calming warm in your stomach. Lower you are, better you feel. For a short moment, of course, but this may have a really great psychologicall effect that can lead you down the slope and persuade you to carry on. Also - the vision of a saving fire can be really strong.
2) Why they left their boots behind?
Have you ever tried to put up a leather boot when its ice cold? Its impossible. Especially when you are not able to motor your fingers and your foot is barely movable. This is why you have to sleep with your boots in a sleeping bag. As far as I know, there was a strange pile of everyones boots in one corner of a tent. Maybe they were not carefull enough and left their boots near the enterance - and the late night cold made the leather boot iron. This is also how to explain one-shoe person. He was able to put up just one.
And also - I walked several times without boots in the snow, not just short distances. Really soon, you will feel nothing. Lack of shoes is the last thing you will feel, feet will addapt. If they were in a hurry, boots should seem redundant in a moment.
3) Why they left their clothes behind
This is the weakest part. I don't know. Maybe just the thing they were not able to reach clothes from show-covered tent, maybe the suffer from icy wind and cold was so incredible they cant last any longer
4) Why was the ten torn?
According to diaries, there was an argument about sewing a tent. Isn't it possible that strong wind opened once-sewed hole in a tent and they made it worse trying to fix it from the inside? Maybe this once-sewed hole was made from the inside before and now just apprear againt - this is why the forensis analyzed it as an "inner job". Maybe the torn of the tent was made unintentionally during the nigtime or later evacuation and this made them believe there is no need to stay in a tent.
5) 2 persons with better equipement
In diaries, there are notes about 2-men night watches. So I presume people on the nigth watch were full-equipped. Dyatlov tried to keep the discipline (i.e. the rule "nobody sits near the fire before everything is done), the rule of the full-equipped watch seems realistic to me - just as a policy and sleeping prevention. Maybe these two called for help during the gale and other with no equipement tried to save the tent, then evacuate the campsite in a hurry for the reasons I wrote above (nothing to loose).
Something of these things matches my experience. A many years ago, I went hiking with my friends. Both terrain and weather was really comfortable, nevertheless we were in the situation when we felt live-threatened. Second night of our trip was a temperature drop (from -5 to cca -20 outside) and our sleeping bags were not warm enough. And I can assure you, you will be able to sleep in these conditions and wake up in the moment, when you are not able barely move. First thing we were trying to do is go outside of the tent with no shoes and gear and jump, try to warm yourself up. Last thing you want to try in this state of mind is to put up cold shoes and frozen jacket. Just because you will not feel the difference. All you want is to find out you are still able to move and live.
6) What happend then?
They try to escape extreme cold, used flashlights as a beacon. Near the cedar, they split their roles - one part was trying to obtain green brushwood as an insulation, second part was setting up fire, third was digging a den. After the fire was set and they felt more comfortable, they decided to reach back the tent - three of them died en route. Fire-keepers that borrowed some of their clothes to the friends were not able to keep fire lit and froze to death - maybe the den party was not aware of that and when they come back, they tried to warm-up unconsious friends and accidentally burnt them a bit.
The rest was described many times - last survivors were crushed in their shelter by falling iceroof.
What you think?
--- End quote ---
One key aspect for you to think about:
Rusted managed to put on one boot. Just one. If the boots were too cold or his hands inoperable how did he get the first boot on? If he had time and the ability to put on one boot, why not the other?
All indications seem to point to them being awake. Neatly layed blankets. Food prepared for eating. The two people on duty - would they not warn the others if there was a sudden extreme weather event? Even if they had been sleeping.
After travelling down the slope in freezing conditions and poorly dressed they were still able to make a fire, cut clothing with a knife.
I don't think it was a weather event that caused them to leave the tent.
Regards
Star man
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