Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tim on January 09, 2020, 06:02:15 AM
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Redo- Correction, Do to the sensitive nature of The Tourists Death and everyone’s personal opinion on the matter let me share with you a newer book I have not read before. This in no means underscores or detracts from The Dyatlov Pass site That Teddy has given her life’s blood for. The author in The Death of Nine worked in cryptographic, lived in England,Germany and Italy before retiring from the United States Air Force. Although like other authors, I disagree with some of the theories he presents. He presents some ideas ,though not new, are presented with better clarity my mind has not been able to get from other books. Skimming over this book would be a mistake...My eye as an artist seems to see these photos with better clarity than other books as sites. The Dyatlov Pass photos are perfect in every way and I still refer to often...My apologies in not thinking this through before I posted...
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My initial thoughts as recorded in the Shoutbox section :-
I've just had skim read of the above book. The author leans to the murder theory and possibly massages the facts to help that. Has the usual errors (states that Semyon wore two hats) and then includes the location photo of his bare head. But some original and interesting effort has gone into the stating the injuries. The shared "U" shaped wounds being new to me.
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Tim, I am disappointed that you haven't acquainted yourself with my site DYATLOVPASS.COM (http://dyatlovpass.com).
This book has copied any available source online, but just because you paid for it, I guess, it has to be better quality.
The last word in Zina’s diary mentions a mans name.
Scroll down Zina's diary https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary
What does it say - Rempel
Go to Who is who, Letter R https://dyatlovpass.com/rescuers#letterr
Geee, there is Rempel.
Tim, my site has all the information there is for the case. What are you talking about clearer images and perfect book for what?
Go to the Chronology of events https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries and you will see what did the hikers write each day of their trek and what pictures did they take, and I dare say there are no better images than the ones I have published. I challenge you to show me one picture or one fact in this stupid book that I will not show you on my site. Maybe I should write all in a book and charge for it you ingrates.
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The shared "U" shaped wounds being new to me.
Tell me more. Who has them. Are they in the autopsy reports?
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The shared "U" shaped wounds being new to me.
Tell me more. Who has them. Are they in the autopsy reports?
Not sure about the autopsy reports (i've just skimmed through so far as i'm busy) but she indicates them in the morgue photos, Igor both sides of the face, Yuri K left thigh 3 U shaped marks, Yuri D left arm, Zina's hand has a similar injury. She attributes them to rifle butts.
I bought the Kindle version for GBP £1.88.
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I know about this book and if didn't even make it to https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlovmania
I see no U shaped marks in the post-mortem photos or the autopsy reports.
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I know about every book there is. there you have two more, not much better than Death of Nine
Dyatlov Nine: Death Below Zero, by Catt Dahman - they died from altitude sickness
DJATLOW?: Aufklärung der unheimlichen Begebenheit - aliens killed them
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I know about this book and if didn't even make it to https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlovmania (https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlovmania)
I see no U shaped marks in the post-mortem photos or the autopsy reports.
There are U, V, J marks at the given locations and with perpendicular short lines terminating the main sweep of the "letter" on three of the bodies. She's correct if you accept "U" as a general term. It's a good observation.
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I know about this book and if didn't even make it to https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlovmania (https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlovmania)
I see no U shaped marks in the post-mortem photos or the autopsy reports.
There are U, V, J marks at the given locations and with perpendicular short lines terminating the main sweep of the "letter" on three of the bodies. She's correct if you accept "U" as a general term. It's a good observation.
Can you show me a pic?
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(https://i.ibb.co/PZWNzKJ/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-6-with-J.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGpmfYq) (https://i.ibb.co/jL9Hvhs/Yuri-Doroshenko-post-mortem-2-with-J.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sFptvjz) (https://i.ibb.co/ZYMQffd/Yuri-Krivonischenko-post-mortem-7-with2-J.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Vrxppn)
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She makes the case that these "bruises" are too similar not to have a similar cause.
She believes in rifle butts, i might favour missile fragments perhaps. kewl1
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I think from the all known current evidence it’s highly implausible that any other person had been involved in the accident.
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I know about every book there is. there you have two more, not much better than Death of Nine
Dyatlov Nine: Death Below Zero, by Catt Dahman - they died from altitude sickness
DJATLOW?: Aufklärung der unheimlichen Begebenheit - aliens killed them
Okay, this is off the original topic but DIED FROM ALTITUDE SICKNESS???
The summit of Kholat Syakyl is 1097 m (and the group was not at the summit). I live not that far from the city of Calgary, population 1.2 million, elevation 1045 m.
I've spent the past several years reading about the effects of altitude on the human body. I have never once come across a documented case where someone got even mild altitude sickness at a thousand meters above sea level.
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Is there any forensic analysis of these proposed marks?
They should all be measured and placed together for comparison
Regards
Star man
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I know about every book there is. there you have two more, not much better than Death of Nine
Dyatlov Nine: Death Below Zero, by Catt Dahman - they died from altitude sickness
DJATLOW?: Aufklärung der unheimlichen Begebenheit - aliens killed them
Okay, this is off the original topic but DIED FROM ALTITUDE SICKNESS???
The summit of Kholat Syakyl is 1097 m (and the group was not at the summit). I live not that far from the city of Calgary, population 1.2 million, elevation 1045 m.
I've spent the past several years reading about the effects of altitude on the human body. I have never once come across a documented case where someone got even mild altitude sickness at a thousand meters above sea level.
and they were all fit and strong. I've skied in Aspen (2400m) and noticed the effect on my sleep.
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Is there any forensic analysis of these proposed marks?
They should all be measured and placed together for comparison
Regards
Star man
The common feature seems to be the terminating short line perpendicular to the main one and in one case this short line is doubled. In trying to fit the evidence to a theory i like this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/7tCkFpX/Dyatlov-pass-rocket-launch-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Rt1xS7)
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Teddy, Ha ha,I know your beautiful site all to well, No slight intended to you and your tireless efforts. Like you Teddy I read everything that is out there to be read. New perspective is critical without it sometimes we get stuck in our stubbornness. Like me, no way was anybody going to deter me from my own common sense natural disaster...I realized after watching you and Josh and reading this book that the lack of footprints around the tent shows up clearly in every injury, a group of humans did this to other humans. Every author I read I find errors and hair brained theories but I enjoy reading without criticizing their efforts. You Rock Teddy.
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Is there any forensic analysis of these proposed marks?
They should all be measured and placed together for comparison
Regards
Star man
The common feature seems to be the terminating short line perpendicular to the main one and in one case this short line is doubled. In trying to fit the evidence to a theory i like this photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/7tCkFpX/Dyatlov-pass-rocket-launch-01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Rt1xS7)
I think it is difficult to accurately determine the injury type and shape from black and white photos, but would be useful if scale drawings of them were available to compare. Anyway it’s a useful insight Nigel - thanks. One last thing - are we sure that the shape of the injuries do not coincide with the shape of a Yeti’s thumb rather than a missile? lol2
Regards
Star man
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Is there any forensic analysis of these proposed marks?
They should all be measured and placed together for comparison
Star man
I did send the photos to an expert. Here is his answer:
In the case of Dyatlov, it seems to me that this simply coincided because of the angle.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-6.jpg)
On photos from other angles this mark is not legible, although abrasions of a different shape are visible. The size of the outlined pattern is larger than what you can see as similar to this mark on the rest of the cases, which I don't believe is a mark at all.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-5.jpg)
Doroshenko has a putrid venous network on his hand, and the isolated U is more likely just a fragment of it.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Yuri-Doroshenko-post-mortem-2.jpg)
The U shaped mark in question can be only seen on Krivonischenko's leg, and this is not the best image. It's like a Rorschach test - you can pick up another detail and try to match it on other bodies.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Yuri-Krivonischenko-post-mortem-7.jpg)
I don't find the mark you're asking for to be repetitive on other bodies.
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Tim, thank you for the kind words of encouragement and support. I am not actually seeking recognition, but only get desperate if people disregard information that's available.
I apologize for the outburst though. Any efforts to publicize the case should be respected and at least given a chance if nothing else they stir opinions, right?
For all of you that get involved, my deepest sympathies, and I am sure you all know how unnerving this case can be. But I wasn't at my best today.
Criticizing is easy and unnecessary. Looking for new information or resolutions is the way. God help us.
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Is there any forensic analysis of these proposed marks?
They should all be measured and placed together for comparison
Star man
I did send the photos to an expert. Here is his answer:
In the case of Dyatlov, it seems to me that this simply coincided because of the angle.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-6.jpg)
On photos from other angles this mark is not legible, although abrasions of a different shape are visible. The size of the outlined pattern is larger than what you can see as similar to this mark on the rest of the cases, which I don't believe is a mark at all.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-5.jpg)
Doroshenko has a putrid venous network on his hand, and the isolated U is more likely just a fragment of it.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Yuri-Doroshenko-post-mortem-2.jpg)
The U shaped mark in question can be only seen on Krivonischenko's leg, and this is not the best image. It's like a Rorschach test - you can pick up another detail and try to match it on other bodies.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Yuri-Krivonischenko-post-mortem-7.jpg)
I don't find the mark you're asking for to be repetitive on other bodies.
I see. Thanks.
Star man
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I'm puzzled by those answers wrt Igor and Yuri K particularly Igor, i can see the line in both photos?
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I'm puzzled by those answers wrt Igor and Yuri K particularly Igor, i can see the line in both photos?
This is somebody's opinion. Mine happens to overlap. You can investigate further with other experts. I am not arguing.
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I'm puzzled by those answers wrt Igor and Yuri K particularly Igor, i can see the line in both photos?
This is somebody's opinion. Mine happens to overlap. You can investigate further with other experts. I am not arguing.
I'm not arguing, just clarifying. He's saying he can't see the line marked in red dots and you agree?
(https://i.ibb.co/DMk3KDP/Igor-Dyatlov-post-mortem-5dots.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gWwsgMb)
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I see a mark that resembles more the U shape on his other chick.
What you have outlined is not in same plane altogether, it is different in size from the other alleged marks. I am not the right person for this discussion.
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I see a mark that resembles more the U shape on his other chick.
What you have outlined is not in same plane altogether, it is different in size from the other alleged marks. I am not the right person for this discussion.
Keep up the great work Teddy. All roads appear to lead to this FORUM via your main website.
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I see a mark that resembles more the U shape on his other chick.
What you have outlined is not in same plane altogether, it is different in size from the other alleged marks. I am not the right person for this discussion.
I think the main point is that there are several marks/bruises that seem to have right angles and there is a low probability that these right angles are from natural objects and hence a high probability that they are from man made objects.
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
! ? Elaborate
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
! ? Elaborate
Fragments of (assumed) aluminum would be of light mass relative to their (possibly large) surface area so air resistance would impede their vertical descent to possibly much less than terminal velocity (it all depends on the shape). Think of dropping a feather vs a hammer. Under strong winds their momentum should? be dominated by the sideways component (from the wind). So a small piece of aluminum waffle sheet falling from the sky might hit you at just 60mph? Enough to mark skin through clothing, cut your face etc.
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
! ? Elaborate
Fragments of (assumed) aluminum would be of light mass relative to their (possibly large) surface area so air resistance would impede their vertical descent to possibly much less than terminal velocity (it all depends on the shape). Think of dropping a feather vs a hammer. Under strong winds their momentum should? be dominated by the sideways component (from the wind). So a small piece of aluminum waffle sheet falling from the sky might hit you at just 60mph? Enough to mark skin through clothing, cut your face etc.
Note the similarity of these marks/wounds on YuriK and Igor :-
(https://i.ibb.co/tZPw2Yz/Igorredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s5Jp1sC) (https://i.ibb.co/vmbpcnD/yuri-Kredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctP0ynx)
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
! ? Elaborate
Fragments of (assumed) aluminum would be of light mass relative to their (possibly large) surface area so air resistance would impede their vertical descent to possibly much less than terminal velocity (it all depends on the shape). Think of dropping a feather vs a hammer. Under strong winds their momentum should? be dominated by the sideways component (from the wind). So a small piece of aluminum waffle sheet falling from the sky might hit you at just 60mph? Enough to mark skin through clothing, cut your face etc.
Assumed [ ASSUMPTION ] Momentum should [ SHOULD ] Falling from the sky might [ MIGHT ] 60 MPH ! ?
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Wouldn't missile fragments rip through skin exposing teeth, bones, etc.
Not if they're just being carried by the wind and gravity.
! ? Elaborate
Fragments of (assumed) aluminum would be of light mass relative to their (possibly large) surface area so air resistance would impede their vertical descent to possibly much less than terminal velocity (it all depends on the shape). Think of dropping a feather vs a hammer. Under strong winds their momentum should? be dominated by the sideways component (from the wind). So a small piece of aluminum waffle sheet falling from the sky might hit you at just 60mph? Enough to mark skin through clothing, cut your face etc.
Note the similarity of these marks/wounds on YuriK and Igor :-
(https://i.ibb.co/tZPw2Yz/Igorredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s5Jp1sC) (https://i.ibb.co/vmbpcnD/yuri-Kredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctP0ynx)
Doesnt prove anything ! ?
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Two bodies exhibiting short parallel lines and a curve terminating in a short line at right angles is significant imo. Fits well with the missile theory. Not a proof, but a good fit.
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Two bodies exhibiting short parallel lines and a curve terminating in a short line at right angles is significant imo. Fits well with the missile theory. Not a proof, but a good fit.
With all due respect it would be good if we could make substantial progress this year. That means we really need a bit more than good fits. Many of the Theories put forward fall short not because of the capability of the forwarder but more to do with the FACT that we are missing so much information that we really need.
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Two bodies exhibiting short parallel lines and a curve terminating in a short line at right angles is significant imo. Fits well with the missile theory. Not a proof, but a good fit.
With all due respect it would be good if we could make substantial progress this year. That means we really need a bit more than good fits. Many of the Theories put forward fall short not because of the capability of the forwarder but more to do with the FACT that we are missing so much information that we really need.
With respect the DPI will never be solved unless the Russian government assists with it's archives. Who else can solve it?
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Okay. I am on page 38 of the Anderson book and she writes, "..the group is ascending above the tree-line. They can feel the altitude change."
bang1 cry2 twitch7
Just NO. NO. YOU DO NOT FEEL THE ALTITUDE CHANGE AT THESE HEIGHTS. You feel different above the tree-line, of course, because you are way more exposed.
I swear to god this altitude stuff is going to drive me to madness. I've just been on Amazon, Goodreads.com, and catt dahman's Facebook page, explaining (somewhat inpatiently) that it is completely impossible to be ten thousand feet above sea level in the Urals (as dahman repeatedly claims in her "book"). Their high point is actually Narodnaya at 6217 feet.
Seriously. Who fact checks this stuff??
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I think it is quite safe to rule out altitude sickness as a reason for the dpi.
Regards
Star man
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I think it is quite safe to rule out altitude sickness as a reason for the dpi.
Regards
Star man
Yes. Absolutely. I guess no one here agrees with catt dahman's nonsense. I'm still aggravated by having read her entire book in one go. The altitude outbursts may continue for a short while, but I'll recover. grin1
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Hello Everyone,
I'm the author of the book. I'd like to clarify a few things. My main goal for writing the book was to present the original facts from the original sources.
Those sources included the original scans from the Dyatlov Foundation, original photos from hibinafiles and taina.li, maps created by Aleksander on taina.li and his own website, many of Mr. Rakitin's books which are a wealth of information, and other Russian resources to include friends who are fluent in the language.
I've included those sources in my acknowledgments and continue to publicly acknowledge them.
So, what I would like to clarify is that I did not just browse dyatlvopass.com and copy that information into a book. At the end of my book, I've included all the original autopsy reports, the original radiation report, the original transcriptions of the diaries, etc. Those reports are not an exact match to the reports here on dyatlovpass.com. I obtained the reports from the Dyatlov Pass Foundation and Hibinaud. The reports I have in the back of the book are direct translations of the original documents.
On this website, the original reports have been very well translated into English. The grammar has been fixed, typos have been fixed, and sentences have been clarified. This is wonderful! I truly wish this had been available as I wrote my book because it would have made translating the original documents so much easier.
So, kudos to this site for its comprehensive collection of Dyatlov information. If I had used original info from this website in my book I would have certainly acknowledged it. However, that is not the case.
I see that someone is concerned over the mention of 'altitude' on p.38. That is probably the only sentence in the whole book where 'altitude' is mentioned and I do not believe it played any part in the hiker's deaths. I think they were murdered. If I ever re-write the book I will probably drop that sentence since it's fluff and unnecessary.
I understand that folks here do not like the book. Most of you have been researching this case for years and are very well versed in this mystery. 'Death of Nine' was my attempt at presenting the original information in a factual way. I did not write it to support a theory. I do believe they were murdered, but there are many holes even in that theory.
I've signed up on this forum and check-marked that members can e-mail me. For anyone who feels that they wasted their money purchasing my book, please e-mail me and I will be happy to return your money via paypal or your preferred method.
Thank you everyone for your time and patience.
Stacy Galloway (pen name: Launton Anderson)
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Tim, I am disappointed that you haven't acquainted yourself with my site DYATLOVPASS.COM (http://dyatlovpass.com).
This book has copied any available source online, but just because you paid for it, I guess, it has to be better quality.
The last word in Zina’s diary mentions a mans name.
Scroll down Zina's diary https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary
What does it say - Rempel
Go to Who is who, Letter R https://dyatlovpass.com/rescuers#letterr
Geee, there is Rempel.
Tim, my site has all the information there is for the case. What are you talking about clearer images and perfect book for what?
Go to the Chronology of events https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries and you will see what did the hikers write each day of their trek and what pictures did they take, and I dare say there are no better images than the ones I have published. I challenge you to show me one picture or one fact in this stupid book that I will not show you on my site. Maybe I should write all in a book and charge for it you ingrates.
I can back you up here. Most of what everyone knows is from here. Sometimes word for word. But most ppl don’t read all the documents including authors who write books on the topic I guess.
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Hello Stacy, Thank you for introducing yourself and for being forthright. This is a fascinating forum in that so many varied ideas and opinions are put forth and discussed.
Strong cases can be built for many theories, but all of them leave important questions unanswered. Explanations that involve an act of nature are simple and direct. A snow slide or gravity wind, for example, just happens. Theories that involve human intervention are more complex. Step one needs to occur, leading to step two, resulting in step three and so forth. These theories carry the hope that somewhere, somehow, documentation can be found. Dozens and dozens of actions by investigators and government officials can be seen as an attempt to coverup what happened. Or maybe not. It seems like in the Soviet Union of 1959, rules and procedures contradicted and confounded one another.
So welcome to this forum. I hope you'll share your theory. You can be sure that it will generate a wide variety of opinions.