Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nigel Evans on February 21, 2020, 03:27:39 AM
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Yuri K of course suffering a huge burn (30cm long) on his left lower leg at some point. The missile (and ball lightning) theories are the only ones that allow for this to happen on the descent.
Points in favour :-- If he was being assisted his partner(s) would be carrying some of his weight as well as their own and the footstep on the left does seem particularly deep.
- The assistant would put Yuri's left arm across his shoulder and pull him in closely to take his weight. The left footstep is very close to the right"drag".
- The "drag" shows a slight decrease of width in the middle which imo fits with a limp, the start and end of the sweep of the foot making more of an impression than the faster middle part.
- Anything that could result in that burn would very probably warm the surrounding snow and of course ever since the first rescuers found the raised footsteps there has been a debate on their causes.
- The asymmetric frostbite exhibited by the two Yuris fits with the theory that having split up into two groups during the descent, one group suffered grievous injuries and poisoning and whilst Zinaida/Rustem/Igor laid down and died, these two carried on to the cedar but very slowly giving the windchill much more time.
(https://i.ibb.co/r5zy18Q/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-014.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Good detective work in the analysis of the photo. A few questions:
Wouldn't nitric acid from an exploded missile cover a wide enough area to burn to some degree everyone fleeing the tent? One serious burn to one leg of one hiker seems as if the nitric acid was aimed to hit Yuri K and how could that be?
Couldn't the deep footprint be caused by one of the hikers assisting Slobodin who seems to have suffered a severe head wound descending the slope?
If Zinaida/Rustem/Igor were severely injured during the descent, wouldn't their bodies have been found with their heads pointing toward the forest instead of their heads pointing toward the tent? Do you believe their serious injuries were caused by the exploding missile?
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Good detective work in the analysis of the photo. A few questions:
Wouldn't nitric acid from an exploded missile cover a wide enough area to burn to some degree everyone fleeing the tent? One serious burn to one leg of one hiker seems as if the nitric acid was aimed to hit Yuri K and how could that be?The real danger isn't from one of the rocket fuels but if they combine, then they spontaneously react. So if (say) a rocket breaks up at altitude and spews it's two fuels into the air and downstream on the wind they could stay apart with the wind forming them into a mist/aerosol. If one of these steams hits the group then they're going to suffer unpleasant consequences but not necessarily burns. Only if you're unlucky and get a splash from both it would ignite and burn (hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds). N.b. there was a lot of fragments of burnt clothing at the cedar....
A neat spin off from this theory of "separated streams of rocket fuel" is that if they cross paths in the air and reignite then you've got... fire orbs...
Couldn't the deep footprint be caused by one of the hikers assisting Slobodin who seems to have suffered a severe head wound descending the slope?I like the idea that Yuri D was occupied by Yuri K as he was clearly limping badly and the others were walking wounded at least initially.
If Zinaida/Rustem/Igor were severely injured during the descent, wouldn't their bodies have been found with their heads pointing toward the forest instead of their heads pointing toward the tent? Do you believe their serious injuries were caused by the exploding missile?No if they were conscious when they laid down they would face up the mountain what's the first thing you do if you fall when skiing? Someone placed Rustem's cap on his head very neatly btw. Only Rustem had injuries, Zinaida and Igor would be a better fit for poisoned.
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I forgot to mention. There were reports of orange snow and of course the orange powder on Yuri D's garment.
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If a missile did explode, your explanation of the fire orbs is certainly believable. Still the odds seem too great that only one hiker would be splashed with burning fuel. If he were, I've got to think the fuel would incinerate his entire body.
Although Dyatlov had no broken bones, he apparently did vomit blood. If inhaling toxic rocket fuel caused this, then wouldn't all the hikers be throwing up blood? Weren't they in close enough proximity to be breathing the same air? It is difficult to fathom why he vomited blood. So your theory could help explain that. The only other explanation that seems to make sense is that he suffered a severe blow to his abdomen. Perhaps that points to he and several others being struck hard by rifle butts.
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If a missile did explode, your explanation of the fire orbs is certainly believable. Still the odds seem too great that only one hiker would be splashed with burning fuel. If he were, I've got to think the fuel would incinerate his entire body. Splash is the wrong word, think of rain or a mist perhaps. The high winds could create high local variance in density perhaps.
Although Dyatlov had no broken bones, he apparently did vomit blood. If inhaling toxic rocket fuel caused this, then wouldn't all the hikers be throwing up blood? Weren't they in close enough proximity to be breathing the same air? It is difficult to fathom why he vomited blood. So your theory could help explain that. The only other explanation that seems to make sense is that he suffered a severe blow to his abdomen. Perhaps that points to he and several others being struck hard by rifle butts. Something hit his face for sure.
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Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made. Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?
Regards
Star man
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Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made. Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?
Regards
Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.
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Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made. Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?
Regards
Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.
We don’t know for sure whether they made it down or not. A ladies handkerchief was found near the cedar so I suspect either Zina or Lyuda was at the cedar at some point.
I think the fire being the cause of the burns is highly likely, especially given the localised nature of them. If there was a bigger event responsible you would expect greater fire damage to the tent or to the other hikers.
Regards
Star man
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Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made. Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?
Regards
Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.
We don’t know for sure whether they made it down or not. A ladies handkerchief was found near the cedar so I suspect either Zina or Lyuda was at the cedar at some point.
I think the fire being the cause of the burns is highly likely, especially given the localised nature of them. If there was a bigger event responsible you would expect greater fire damage to the tent or to the other hikers.
Regards
Star man
So it's a case of the campfire burning his leg due to too close proximity versus some burning agent landing on his leg/foot from above.
From the autopsy :-"On the left leg is a torn cotton sock, the edges of which are burned.""The rear of the left foot is dark brown in color with subcutaneous defects of the epidermis with a size of 10 x 4 cm. The back of the second toe is charred and the skin is dark brown in color and tight when palpated. "
Here's the photo :-
(https://i.ibb.co/BGjwkRM/Yuri-Krivonischenko-post-mortem-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RNP78Ww)
Note the marks on the thigh that seem to have a repeating style.
So this is a quite selective camp fire? A 31cm burn on the leg which blows the skin, signs of heating on the foot still covered with a sock which is not burnt except for the edges and just one of his toes is charred but only on the back? (i'm assuming the back of the toe is the side that has the nail?). This "charred" word is very significant imo. How do you put your foot in a fire and only do that to one side of one toe?
Now if instead you want to consider some highly reactive "rain" landing on these areas then you have an excellent fit (imo).
Regards.
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe?
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate.
Regards
Star man
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?
Regards
Star man
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The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them ! ? It is an ASSUMPTION. Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print ! ? And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties ! ?
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According to https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search , there were 8-9 footprints left by people who wore almost no footwear.....Sane people usually wear some kind of boots in snow under normal conditions....
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?
Regards
Star man
Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned? Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be? Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?
Regards
Star man
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The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them ! ? It is an ASSUMPTION. Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print ! ? And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties ! ?
The fact that the investigation didn't produce more detailed analysis of the foot prints is surprising. Would have expected many more photographs and measurements of feet etc. Do we know how long the footprints were there for and whether they were still there when the investigators arrived?
Very large foot prints would obviously be of major interest you might expect, especially given what they had written in the pamphlet.. saying that I don't remember seeing any witness statements about large foot prints either. The Discovery channel documentary did an interview - think it was with Sheravin at the Dyatlov foundation where large foot prints were mentioned, but it seems that this was is-is interpretation of what was actually said. Things that don't really help. nea1
Regards
Star man
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The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them ! ? It is an ASSUMPTION. Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print ! ? And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties ! ?
Hi, i've been following the dpi for years and have never been made aware of these huge footprints?
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According to https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search (https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search) , there were 8-9 footprints left by people who wore almost no footwear.....Sane people usually wear some kind of boots in snow under normal conditions....
Quite right.
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?
Regards
Star man
Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned? Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be? Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?
Regards
Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?
Regards
Star man
Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned? Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be? Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?
Regards
Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.
Given the likely amount of fuel there would be in a rocket and some kind of crash landing explosion of the hyperbolic rocket fuel I can’t see how it could spray onto the tent and burn only a persons foot, leg or toe? A huge fire ball would be more fitting? I just can’t see it
dunno1
Regards
Star man
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The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them ! ? It is an ASSUMPTION. Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print ! ? And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties ! ?
Hi, i've been following the dpi for years and have never been made aware of these huge footprints?
Well they are mentioned even if they are not mentioned in the so called official records.
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How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...
Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising. Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.
If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock. I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning. He may not have been able to feel them. Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?
Regards
Star man
Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned? Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be? Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?
Regards
Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.
Given the likely amount of fuel there would be in a rocket and some kind of crash landing explosion of the hyperbolic rocket fuel I can’t see how it could spray onto the tent and burn only a persons foot, leg or toe? A huge fire ball would be more fitting? I just can’t see it
dunno1
Regards
Star man
Ah you want a narrative? You've come to the right place, i'm good at narratives. kewl1
Remember these fuels are hypergolic and lets assume a 1 to 1 reaction ratio, i.e. if you throw 1 ton of fuelA into a swimming pool containing 10 tones of fuelB then you have 0 tons of fuelA and 9 tons of fuelB. (albeit very hot and somewhat dispersed!).
So a narrative.
- A large rocket containing an equal amount of fuelA and fuelB, lets say 10 tons of each flies overhead.
- Normal rocket construction is that the fuels are kept apart in separate tanks one above the other.
- A SAM hits this rocket and ruptures one of the tanks badly (fuelA) but not the tank containing fuelB.
- As the doomed rocket plunges to earth it spews most of it's quantity of fuelA onto the mountain below, including the descending DP group. N.B. the group has split up into two and one half is lucky and the other half isn't. Lyudmila in the lucky half does show signs of facial exposure to fuelA (white chin) but otherwise they're ok.
- Then it hits the ground with 1 ton of fuelA left inside and 10 tons of fuelB which breaks up both tanks and the hypergolic fuels mix and explode.
- The explosion throws a large quantity of the unspent fuelB into the air with a lot of pieces of the rocket's waffle skin.
- The heavier pieces of rocket don't travel far but the smaller and lighter pieces travel downwind onto the unlucky half who are descending the slope.
- Due to the 360 degree nature of the explosion, only a small quantity of unspent fuelB and metal lands at the unlucky half's location injuring several. Igor and YuriK get peculiar curved marks terminating in perpendicular parallel stripes. Igor gets his on his face. YuriK two on his left thigh, with a third deeper stripe say 2-3mm deep as if something melted the skin. FuelA is stinging their faces and eyes so they hold their hands to their faces to try and protect. This results in damage to the hands including caused by metal fragments. YuriD gets a stripe on his forearm and small angled burn. YuriK unluckily gets a splash of fuelB onto his trousers that have already been soaked in fuelA. A tiny drop of fuelB lands on his sock above the second toe. YuriK gets a bad burn and is limping badly causing YuriD to dedicate himself to him to get him down the slope.
- A short time later Rustem cannot see properly and falls badly creating internal bleeding. He will shortly give up.
- Zinaida and Igor cannot see properly, Zinaida is feeling very unwell and her face is covered in blood from open sores. She lies down to die.
- After tending to Rustem and placing his hat neatly on his head Igor struggles on, his head orifices are bleeding and he has vomited. Stumbling into the tree line he picks up a lot of scratches around his ankles from vegetation. He starts crawling getting more scratches on his wrists.
- Finally he succumbs.
- The 2 Yuri's make it to the cedar, the fire acting as a beacon but YuriK is in enormous pain and dies of shock shortly after biting his hand.
- YuriD is overcome with the guilt of leaving the other three on the descent. They were all close friends and he had dated Zinaida for a time. Although suffering from frostbite he climbs the cedar to try and call out to them.
- The frostbite makes him clumsy and/or he suffers a pulmonary edema (from either breathing fuelA or hypothermia) causing him to fall badly out of the tree and die.
- The den is ready and the remaining four decide that searching the mountain for the other three is suicide and given the state of the 2 Yuris probably pointless, they strip the 2Yuris and retire to the den.
- Sometime later at dawn something heavy rolls over the den and crushes the occupants under the snow probably whilst they were sleeping. Semyon had been trying to make notes but had dozed off.
May they rest in peace.
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Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel.
At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket? Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?
I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular. Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative.
Regards
Star man
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Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel.
At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket? Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?
I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular. Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?
Regards
Star man
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Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.
- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/
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Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel.
At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket? Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?
I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular. Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?
Regards
Star man
But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?
Regards
Star man
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Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
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Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel.
At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket? Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?
I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular. Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?
Regards
Star man
But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?
Regards
Star man
No that's the whole point. When used as a monopropellant, hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds. Presumably nitric acid delivers a similar result. Just needs a drop of one component onto a sock soaked with the other. Is there any other way to charr just one side of one toe?
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Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
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Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel.
At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket? Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?
I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular. Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?
Regards
Star man
But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?
Regards
Star man
No that's the whole point. When used as a monopropellant, hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds. Presumably nitric acid delivers a similar result. Just needs a drop of one component onto a sock soaked with the other. Is there any other way to charr just one side of one toe?
Think about it though - if Krivo had been exposed to the fuel and his foot was on fire do you honestly think that he would let it continue to burn until his toe was charred? Just putting his foot or leg in some snow would have have quenched the burning even if it did not immediately stop it?
Regards
Star man
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Hi, Star man.
If you don't mind, I'll insert my 2 cents, or ,(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9.jpg) .
or
(https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45.jpg) ? :)
1. Thank you, Nigel Evans, for illustrating the Proton accident! Here are two things that may be important to discuss:...
A) orange color - accident of one (of six!) engine - complete or partial failure of the pump supply of the fuel itself (UDMH; 1,1-dimethylhydrazine or Heptyl - H2NN(CH3)2), which means the supply of only one oxidizer, which is nitrogen tetraoxide or N2O4.
B) this results in an asymmetrical rocket twist and an accident in the launch phase. This is about 2 ... 10 km (1.5 ... 6 mi) from the launch complex.
C) I want to pay attention to how the missile breaks down at the end of the flight: First, the head unit with the upper block at the junction with the first and second stages is separated, and then the stages # 1 & 2 themselves break down.
This is a consequence of the high level of Coriollis acceleration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force) and on the basis of the Nikolai Zhukovsky Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist) ). (who for some reason is my distant relative... :) ).
I wrote about this destruction a long time ago, when I said that a rocket cannot bend at a large angle without damaging its structure. It was in contrast to the claims that ... "the rocket accidentally deviated from its course and flew to the Dyatlov Pass ...". That can't be because the missile's trajectories were calculated in other directions.
Therefore, one may not consider the missile accident as the cause of the events at the Dyatlov Pass because there are no signs of it. Besides, there is no evidence that there was a launch that could have led to a hit there. R-7 missiles that could have flown at the available real range were launched in a completely different direction (from Kazakhstan to Kamchatka), while there were no other missiles that had the right range at the time.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Burning only takes place where both components land by random chance. The strong wind would create a long contamination zone, the young firs at the tree line were wiithin it. There are reports of orange snow.
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Hi, Star man.
If you don't mind, I'll insert my 2 cents, or ,(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9.jpg) .
or
(https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45.jpg) ? :)
1. Thank you, Nigel Evans, for illustrating the Proton accident! Here are two things that may be important to discuss:...
A) orange color - accident of one (of six!) engine - complete or partial failure of the pump supply of the fuel itself (UDMH; 1,1-dimethylhydrazine or Heptyl - H2NN(CH3)2), which means the supply of only one oxidizer, which is nitrogen tetraoxide or N2O4.
B) this results in an asymmetrical rocket twist and an accident in the launch phase. This is about 2 ... 10 km (1.5 ... 6 mi) from the launch complex.
C) I want to pay attention to how the missile breaks down at the end of the flight: First, the head unit with the upper block at the junction with the first and second stages is separated, and then the stages # 1 & 2 themselves break down.
This is a consequence of the high level of Coriollis acceleration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force)) and on the basis of the Nikolai Zhukovsky Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist)) ). (who for some reason is my distant relative... :) ).
I wrote about this destruction a long time ago, when I said that a rocket cannot bend at a large angle without damaging its structure. It was in contrast to the claims that ... "the rocket accidentally deviated from its course and flew to the Dyatlov Pass ...". That can't be because the missile's trajectories were calculated in other directions.
Therefore, one may not consider the missile accident as the cause of the events at the Dyatlov Pass because there are no signs of it. Besides, there is no evidence that there was a launch that could have led to a hit there. R-7 missiles that could have flown at the available real range were launched in a completely different direction (from Kazakhstan to Kamchatka), while there were no other missiles that had the right range at the time.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?
I'll raise the stakes....
(https://i.ibb.co/gyph38X/nations-of-the-crown-bu-one-pound-coin-obverse-reverse-large.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Hi WAB.
Ok coriolis and aerodynamic forces perhaps. kewl1
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?It's about reverse engineering the problem, starting at the end result and asking what could cause this?
The various injuries and apparent sickness are an extremely good fit for hydrazine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine) - "Hydrazine exposure can cause skin irritation/contact dermatitis and burning, irritation to the eyes/nose/throat, nausea/vomiting, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema, headache, dizziness, central nervous system depression, lethargy, temporary blindness, seizures and coma.".
In particular - Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show the sores that caused that. How else could she have got these other than from some chemical agent? Toboganning head first using her face as brake? Igor had vomited and was bleeding from his ears and mouth? YuriD's pulmonary edema is a fit although hypothermia is another of course.
And then we come on to YuriK's burns and in particular his charred toe. How is it possible to carbonise just one side of just one toe?
Then there's the burnt firs at the treeline. Ivanov chose directed heat rays, i now prefer the rocket fuel theory. Curiously if both propellant components met in the air they would ignite into a fire orb....
Then there's strange marks on the bodies, photos of YuriK and Igor both showing curved lines that terminate in a perpendicular stripe. Caused by metal fragments of a repeating pattern?
-
Further points to WAB :-
- there were reports of orange snow? note that watermelon snow algae is red and the associated snow appears pink.
- YuriD's jumper was disintegrating and covered in orange powder?
- Semyon's plane2 photo is so named because it looks like an aerodynamic structure?
- Lyudmila's yellow brown face / white chin suggests chemical exposure? Unlikely to be sunburn....
- the tent has many tears on one side and only one on the other side suggesting an asymmetry of degradation?
- after the discovery of the tent one of the first actions of the military is to sweep the area with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lt Colonel)?
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Hi, Star man.
If you don't mind, I'll insert my 2 cents, or ,(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9.jpg) .
or
(https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45.jpg) ? :)
1. Thank you, Nigel Evans, for illustrating the Proton accident! Here are two things that may be important to discuss:...
A) orange color - accident of one (of six!) engine - complete or partial failure of the pump supply of the fuel itself (UDMH; 1,1-dimethylhydrazine or Heptyl - H2NN(CH3)2), which means the supply of only one oxidizer, which is nitrogen tetraoxide or N2O4.
B) this results in an asymmetrical rocket twist and an accident in the launch phase. This is about 2 ... 10 km (1.5 ... 6 mi) from the launch complex.
C) I want to pay attention to how the missile breaks down at the end of the flight: First, the head unit with the upper block at the junction with the first and second stages is separated, and then the stages # 1 & 2 themselves break down.
This is a consequence of the high level of Coriollis acceleration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force) and on the basis of the Nikolai Zhukovsky Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist) ). (who for some reason is my distant relative... :) ).
I wrote about this destruction a long time ago, when I said that a rocket cannot bend at a large angle without damaging its structure. It was in contrast to the claims that ... "the rocket accidentally deviated from its course and flew to the Dyatlov Pass ...". That can't be because the missile's trajectories were calculated in other directions.
Therefore, one may not consider the missile accident as the cause of the events at the Dyatlov Pass because there are no signs of it. Besides, there is no evidence that there was a launch that could have led to a hit there. R-7 missiles that could have flown at the available real range were launched in a completely different direction (from Kazakhstan to Kamchatka), while there were no other missiles that had the right range at the time.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?
2 cents accepted. Makes sense to me.
Regards
Star man
-
Further points to WAB :-- there were reports of orange snow? note that watermelon snow algae is red and the associated snow appears pink.
- YuriD's jumper was disintegrating and covered in orange powder?
- Semyon's plane2 photo is so named because it looks like an aerodynamic structure?
- Lyudmila's yellow brown face / white chin suggests chemical exposure? Unlikely to be sunburn....
- the tent has many tears on one side and only one on the other side suggesting an asymmetry of degradation?
- after the discovery of the tent one of the first actions of the military is to sweep the area with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lt Colonel)?
I think the key thing for me is - what actuall happened at the tent? The forensics suggest that at least 3 cuts were made from the inside. I have looked at those cuts closely from the photographs and it appears that subsequent tears in the fabric intercept the cuts in a way that may indicate that once the initial cuts were made, someone pulled at the holes to make them bigger, tearing the fabric. As you say Nigel, the cuts/tears seem to be mainly on the one side. Is that significant? Not sure, but why would they do that? It seems like they couldn't get out of the tent fast enough. Did they panic? Does the proposed hole in the tent on the opposite side have anything to do with it?
Regards
Star man
-
Further points to WAB :-- there were reports of orange snow? note that watermelon snow algae is red and the associated snow appears pink.
- YuriD's jumper was disintegrating and covered in orange powder?
- Semyon's plane2 photo is so named because it looks like an aerodynamic structure?
- Lyudmila's yellow brown face / white chin suggests chemical exposure? Unlikely to be sunburn....
- the tent has many tears on one side and only one on the other side suggesting an asymmetry of degradation?
- after the discovery of the tent one of the first actions of the military is to sweep the area with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lt Colonel)?
I think the key thing for me is - what actuall happened at the tent? The forensics suggest that at least 3 cuts were made from the inside. I have looked at those cuts closely from the photographs and it appears that subsequent tears in the fabric intercept the cuts in a way that may indicate that once the initial cuts were made, someone pulled at the holes to make them bigger, tearing the fabric. As you say Nigel, the cuts/tears seem to be mainly on the one side. Is that significant? Not sure, but why would they do that? It seems like they couldn't get out of the tent fast enough. Did they panic? Does the proposed hole in the tent on the opposite side have anything to do with it?
Regards
Star man
For me the key thing is finding THE narrative, the one that explains ALL the evidence. Not just some of it. There's 75 plus narratives that can do that.
Hence the missile theory, the problem with the ball lightning theory is that it's very good at explaining say 98% albeit with a somewhat low probability but not 100%. But the missile theory can explain everything. The big problem with it is that it requires an explanation for the lack of debris which makes certain members here scoff. afraid7
But hovering helicopters leave snow rings....
Regards Nigel kewl1
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Hi, Star man.
If you don't mind, I'll insert my 2 cents, or ,(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9.jpg) .
or
(https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45.jpg) ? :)
1. Thank you, Nigel Evans, for illustrating the Proton accident! Here are two things that may be important to discuss:...
A) orange color - accident of one (of six!) engine - complete or partial failure of the pump supply of the fuel itself (UDMH; 1,1-dimethylhydrazine or Heptyl - H2NN(CH3)2), which means the supply of only one oxidizer, which is nitrogen tetraoxide or N2O4.
B) this results in an asymmetrical rocket twist and an accident in the launch phase. This is about 2 ... 10 km (1.5 ... 6 mi) from the launch complex.
C) I want to pay attention to how the missile breaks down at the end of the flight: First, the head unit with the upper block at the junction with the first and second stages is separated, and then the stages # 1 & 2 themselves break down.
This is a consequence of the high level of Coriollis acceleration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force)) and on the basis of the Nikolai Zhukovsky Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist)) ). (who for some reason is my distant relative... :) ).
I wrote about this destruction a long time ago, when I said that a rocket cannot bend at a large angle without damaging its structure. It was in contrast to the claims that ... "the rocket accidentally deviated from its course and flew to the Dyatlov Pass ...". That can't be because the missile's trajectories were calculated in other directions.
Therefore, one may not consider the missile accident as the cause of the events at the Dyatlov Pass because there are no signs of it. Besides, there is no evidence that there was a launch that could have led to a hit there. R-7 missiles that could have flown at the available real range were launched in a completely different direction (from Kazakhstan to Kamchatka), while there were no other missiles that had the right range at the time.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?
I'll raise the stakes....
(Just keep in mind "we, here in Russia, people are poor - according to your media information" - we do not have such money :). We have everything measured in kilograms! That's £2.5 :) ).
(https://i.ibb.co/gyph38X/nations-of-the-crown-bu-one-pound-coin-obverse-reverse-large.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
That's the kind of money I was talking about.
Hi WAB.
Ok coriolis and aerodynamic forces perhaps. kewl1
It's not only possible, it's even more than a fact - it was fully...
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?It's about reverse engineering the problem, starting at the end result and asking what could cause this?
It's okay. Unless there are empty conversations without taking into account the real facts... I mean, the complete absence of these "reverse engineering problems" and the works associated with them. Conversations – it were, and facts exist = 0.
The various injuries and apparent sickness are an extremely good fit for hydrazine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine) - "Hydrazine exposure can cause skin irritation/contact dermatitis and burning, irritation to the eyes/nose/throat, nausea/vomiting, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema, headache, dizziness, central nervous system depression, lethargy, temporary blindness, seizures and coma.".
That's good, but why talk about something that wasn't available at the time. Rockets with Heptyl fuel and nitrogen-containing oxidizing agents started to be used only 1.5 years later. And the time machine wasn't invented until now. :)
In particular - Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show the sores that caused that. How else could she have got these other than from some chemical agent?
Ooh! Dear Nigel Evans, why are you changing concepts? She had a moderate amount of blood near her face. That's easy to get if you stumble on how many surfaces at night. The conditions there were more than anything.
By the way, there are no signs of chemical exposure in the photos and the doctor did not mark even the smallest signs in the protocol.
Toboganning head first using her face as brake? Igor had vomited and was bleeding from his ears and mouth?
It could have been very easy there. I can only explain it very clearly to you standing on that very slope in winter. I won't even have to tell you anything. You'll see everything very clearly for yourself.
YuriD's pulmonary edema is a fit although hypothermia is another of course.
Why are you saying things that aren't on the court physician's report? It's either inaccurate translations or just fantasies on a loose subject. Yuri Doroshenko's gray substance is only the result of the melted snow in his mouth when he was lying in the forest, when it was transported to Ivdel city, and when this snow melted. This is often the case with bodies that were found under the snow. Like those who were caught in an avalanche. I've seen it several times in other similar searches. There's no need for any pulmonary edema. Although with the frost that was during the events and the intense work it could be exact. But there's no such indication in the report. There's no need to speculate for a doctor, you can't see it in front of you.
And then we come on to YuriK's burns and in particular his charred toe. How is it possible to carbonise just one side of just one toe?
Have you ever lost the sensitivity of your fingers, like your hands, for a long time in a severe frost? Especially if it was a borderline condition near frostbite? I've seen it many times during my winter journeys and I've never seen it myself. My hands can't feel anything (my legs can't feel either). I saw a lady taking a bucket by the arc, which was heated up very strongly, but I didn't feel a strong burn while carrying this bucket 2...3 meters (that's about 10 feet), while traveling on the Kola Peninsula in the next group. Only then did she feel the burn. It was already a third-degree burn. There were blisters and a slight necrosis of the surface tissue. But she was in a normal state of mind, she didn't have a cloudy state of consciousness, which Georgy Krivonishchenko must have had. They worked very hard in the cold and were tired. Additionally, they could turn off the consciousness when they lit the fire and got the first signs of heat. It's very relaxing. In science it's called thermal relaxation.
Then there's the burnt firs at the treeline. Ivanov chose directed heat rays, i now prefer the rocket fuel theory. Curiously if both propellant components met in the air they would ignite into a fire orb....
Except Ivanov (and it was he who spoke 35 years after the events), no one knows about it and has not seen anything like it, although they have been on the spot for much longer than Ivanov himself.
It is not serious to talk about fuel and fireballs, if the very fact of the rocket is absent at all. On rumors and gossip can build any number of erroneous versions, only who would need it? The most important thing - why do you need it?
The "fireballs" themselves have already been clearly identified by the search participants as a result of launching missiles at a very long distance - several thousand kilometers or miles. There are no events that coincide in time with the accuracy of minutes, which should be explained more fabulous than it actually is.
Then there's strange marks on the bodies, photos of YuriK and Igor both showing curved lines that terminate in a perpendicular stripe. Caused by metal fragments of a repeating pattern?
I didn't get it. Tell me more about what you wanted to say with this?
-
Further points to WAB :-- there were reports of orange snow? note that watermelon snow algae is red and the associated snow appears pink.
If you are talking about reddish Chlamydomonas nivalis seeds, whose cells are thickly filled with red pigment? We have seen such reddish fields many times not only on the pass, but in many other places as well. They appear only on hard snow (nast) and increase in colour closer to spring. What does it have to do with the death of Dyatlov's group?
- YuriD's jumper was disintegrating and covered in orange powder?
Where'd you get that from? There was even talk of some kind of purple shade, but there was nothing else but talk.
By the way, do you know where those conversations came from?
Another question: Did you ever see the color of a fresh corpse that had just been dug out of the snow?
If you haven't, here's a photo:
(https://d.radikal.ru/d28/2002/b8/94f8a38afdc0t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d28/2002/b8/94f8a38afdc0.jpg)
It is that from rocket fuel, too? :)
- Semyon's plane2 photo is so named because it looks like an aerodynamic structure?
1. This photo is not of Semen, but of different Valentin Yakimenko's considerations, which have nothing to do with any picture.
2. This is a strong increase in the hyposulfite crystal on the film, because it was not washed well. Since the storage of such films for several decades, these crystals sometimes appear. The size of such a crystal is a few tenths of a millimeter, or hundredths of an inch. Next to the perforation window of the film, they seem gigantic. Like this:
(https://a.radikal.ru/a32/2002/03/0f82f7643db8t.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a32/2002/03/0f82f7643db8.jpg)
(https://c.radikal.ru/c00/2002/8b/78c6437cd621t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c00/2002/8b/78c6437cd621.jpg)
It is that the famous "Plane"?
These are common defects on the film when it is stored for a long time. This is quite clear to anyone who has taken film photography before digital photography appeared.
(https://a.radikal.ru/a21/2002/a4/f8969f3cc8aft.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a21/2002/a4/f8969f3cc8af.jpg)
The width of the film perforation window is 0.11 in. A crystal called "Airplane" is about 20 times that size.
- Lyudmila's yellow brown face / white chin suggests chemical exposure? Unlikely to be sunburn....
This is not an argument at all. In a medical study in May, she didn't have half of her facial tissue at all. What color is there to talk about?
- the tent has many tears on one side and only one on the other side suggesting an asymmetry of degradation?
It shows that the wind carried the sparks from the furnace exhaust into that line. And nothing else. Hitting the tent with rocket fuel burns it completely.
- after the discovery of the tent one of the first actions of the military is to sweep the area with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lt Colonel)?
That was far from the first action. Soldiers of the railway troops arrived at the place together with the second or even third shift of the search participants. This is a traditional military mistake: to bring mine detectors and search under deep snow for people who have almost no metal objects. This was the case in my practice several times when the military was given the command to participate in the search. Never once did they find anything, but they have always acted with mine detectors. By the way, the lieutenant colonel himself did not come to the pass, he was in Ivdel city, where the headquarters of the battalion of railway troops was located. They were building a railroad from Ivdel to the Ob River. Soldiers of the railway troops were on the pass for a short time. There was a man with the same first name on the pass - Shestopalov - in the third group of search participants. He was a student at the UPI University.
You can't build theories based on rumors and conversations only. That's the way to a dead end.
-
.........................................
For me the key thing is finding THE narrative, the one that explains ALL the evidence. Not just some of it. There's 75 plus narratives that can do that. [/quote]
The number of theories is not an approximation to the truth. Rather, it is the opposite. This is the case when a lot of garbage is thrown on a small number of necessary objects.
So that's a very controversial statement.
Hence the missile theory, the problem with the ball lightning theory is that it's very good at explaining say 98% albeit with a somewhat low probability but not 100%. But the missile theory can explain everything. The big problem with it is that it requires an explanation for the lack of debris which makes certain members here scoff. afraid7
If you know well about rockets or ball lightning, it doesn't explain anything, because it immediately leads to contradictions when something is said that wasn't there at all, or at the time the conversation is going on.
As for the missile debris on the ground, that is the best proof that there were no missiles. Even in the XVIII century proved a simple natural wisdom: nothing disappears into nowhere, and nothing of anything appears. Mysticism is only a form of imagination in individuals, but has no proof in nature.
But hovering helicopters leave snow rings....
If you know the aerodynamics of helicopters well, you wouldn't make such claims. Helicopters has never left such rings. It's a myth invented by those who only know about helicopters that he's seen them from afar.
-
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.- What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
- As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/)
Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/ (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/)
You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.
Regards
Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
But it would more likely be a finely divided and diluted aerosol.
To get sprayed with fuel the rocket would need to crash nearby the tent spraying fuel everywhere and we see no burning of the tent.
Regards
Star man
Hi, Star man.
If you don't mind, I'll insert my 2 cents, or ,(https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9t.jpg) (https://b.radikal.ru/b17/2002/46/3b713dbeace9.jpg) .
or
(https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d06/2002/c2/a8db86a6cd45.jpg) ? :)
1. Thank you, Nigel Evans, for illustrating the Proton accident! Here are two things that may be important to discuss:...
A) orange color - accident of one (of six!) engine - complete or partial failure of the pump supply of the fuel itself (UDMH; 1,1-dimethylhydrazine or Heptyl - H2NN(CH3)2), which means the supply of only one oxidizer, which is nitrogen tetraoxide or N2O4.
B) this results in an asymmetrical rocket twist and an accident in the launch phase. This is about 2 ... 10 km (1.5 ... 6 mi) from the launch complex.
C) I want to pay attention to how the missile breaks down at the end of the flight: First, the head unit with the upper block at the junction with the first and second stages is separated, and then the stages # 1 & 2 themselves break down.
This is a consequence of the high level of Coriollis acceleration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force)) and on the basis of the Nikolai Zhukovsky Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Zhukovsky_(scientist)) ). (who for some reason is my distant relative... :) ).
I wrote about this destruction a long time ago, when I said that a rocket cannot bend at a large angle without damaging its structure. It was in contrast to the claims that ... "the rocket accidentally deviated from its course and flew to the Dyatlov Pass ...". That can't be because the missile's trajectories were calculated in other directions.
Therefore, one may not consider the missile accident as the cause of the events at the Dyatlov Pass because there are no signs of it. Besides, there is no evidence that there was a launch that could have led to a hit there. R-7 missiles that could have flown at the available real range were launched in a completely different direction (from Kazakhstan to Kamchatka), while there were no other missiles that had the right range at the time.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?
I'll raise the stakes....
(Just keep in mind "we, here in Russia, people are poor - because all the rich Russians are not in Russia :) according to your media information - partly owned by rich Russians :) " - we do not have such money :). We have everything measured in kilograms! That's £2.5 :) ).
(https://i.ibb.co/gyph38X/nations-of-the-crown-bu-one-pound-coin-obverse-reverse-large.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
That's the kind of money I was talking about.
Hi WAB.
Ok coriolis and aerodynamic forces perhaps. kewl1
It's not only possible, it's even more than a fact - it was fully... Agreed rockets are not robust wrt lateral forces.
PS. I don't understand at all: what does talking about missiles have to do with "Is this a record of Yuri K limping”?It's about reverse engineering the problem, starting at the end result and asking what could cause this?
It's okay. Unless there are empty conversations without taking into account the real facts... I mean, the complete absence of these "reverse engineering problems" and the works associated with them. Conversations – it were, and facts exist = 0. Zinaida's face is one fact.
The various injuries and apparent sickness are an extremely good fit for hydrazine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine) - "Hydrazine exposure can cause skin irritation/contact dermatitis and burning, irritation to the eyes/nose/throat, nausea/vomiting, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema, headache, dizziness, central nervous system depression, lethargy, temporary blindness, seizures and coma.".
That's good, but why talk about something that wasn't available at the time. Rockets with Heptyl fuel and nitrogen-containing oxidizing agents started to be used only 1.5 years later. And the time machine wasn't invented until now. :) No need for a time machine, My rocket is an early prototype :). You don't commit to a ICBM program with a new fuel technology without some testing - http://www.astronautix.com/u/udmh.html - "[size=0]Development of UDMH in the Soviet Union began in 1949."[/size]
In particular - Zinaida was found with her face covered in blood and the morgue photos show the sores that caused that. How else could she have got these other than from some chemical agent?
Ooh! Dear Nigel Evans, why are you changing concepts? She had a moderate amount of blood near her face. That's easy to get if you stumble on how many surfaces at night. The conditions there were more than anything. Ok you translate it for me - https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/protokol-osmotra-mesta-proissestvia - Google translate says - "Face in blood"
By the way, there are no signs of chemical exposure in the photos and the doctor did not mark even the smallest signs in the protocol.
True, the pathologist stated grazes and abrasions for the condition of Zina's face. But i would argue that grazes and abrasions should show some signs of direction of abrasion. But there aren't any, instead there is only uniform blotching. And how is it possible to abrade the skin of the eyelid protected by an eye socket without damaging the eyebrow? I can only determine that the pathologist was incorrect for whatever reason.
(https://i.ibb.co/QNBDRqQ/Zinaida-Kolmogorova-post-mortem-4-rotate111.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Toboganning head first using her face as brake? Igor had vomited and was bleeding from his ears and mouth?
It could have been very easy there. I can only explain it very clearly to you standing on that very slope in winter. I won't even have to tell you anything. You'll see everything very clearly for yourself. As said above. We have a saying in English - "The camera doesn't lie".
YuriD's pulmonary edema is a fit although hypothermia is another of course.
Why are you saying things that aren't on the court physician's report? It's either inaccurate translations or just fantasies on a loose subject. Yuri Doroshenko's gray substance is only the result of the melted snow in his mouth when he was lying in the forest, when it was transported to Ivdel city, and when this snow melted. This is often the case with bodies that were found under the snow. Like those who were caught in an avalanche. He died above the snow? I've seen it several times in other similar searches. There's no need for any pulmonary edema. Although with the frost that was during the events and the intense work it could be exact. But there's no such indication in the report. There's no need to speculate for a doctor, you can't see it in front of you. The autopsy reports "foamy grey fluid on the cheek and mouth" and "when sectioned the lung tissue is of a dark color, when pressed a large quantity of liquid dark blood and foamy liquid flows from the opening of the incision". There's a lot foamy liquid around this guy, both internally and externally. I'm not qualified to go further. Perhaps you are :).
And then we come on to YuriK's burns and in particular his charred toe. How is it possible to carbonise just one side of just one toe?
Have you ever lost the sensitivity of your fingers, like your hands, for a long time in a severe frost? Especially if it was a borderline condition near frostbite? I've seen it many times during my winter journeys and I've never seen it myself. My hands can't feel anything (my legs can't feel either). I saw a lady taking a bucket by the arc, which was heated up very strongly, but I didn't feel a strong burn while carrying this bucket 2...3 meters (that's about 10 feet), while traveling on the Kola Peninsula in the next group. Only then did she feel the burn. It was already a third-degree burn. There were blisters and a slight necrosis of the surface tissue. But she was in a normal state of mind, she didn't have a cloudy state of consciousness, which Georgy Krivonishchenko must have had. They worked very hard in the cold and were tired. Additionally, they could turn off the consciousness when they lit the fire and got the first signs of heat. It's very relaxing. In science it's called thermal relaxation. You haven't replied to my point, "how do you carbonise just one side of one toe?".
Then there's the burnt firs at the treeline. Ivanov chose directed heat rays, i now prefer the rocket fuel theory. Curiously if both propellant components met in the air they would ignite into a fire orb....
Except Ivanov (and it was he who spoke 35 years after the events), no one knows about it and has not seen anything like it, although they have been on the spot for much longer than Ivanov himself.
It is not serious to talk about fuel and fireballs, if the very fact of the rocket is absent at all. On rumors and gossip can build any number of erroneous versions, only who would need it? The most important thing - why do you need it?
The "fireballs" themselves have already been clearly identified by the search participants as a result of launching missiles at a very long distance - several thousand kilometers or miles. There are no events that coincide in time with the accuracy of minutes, which should be explained more fabulous than it actually is.
It must be the fire orbs then :).Then there's strange marks on the bodies, photos of YuriK and Igor both showing curved lines that terminate in a perpendicular stripe. Caused by metal fragments of a repeating pattern?
I didn't get it. Tell me more about what you wanted to say with this?(https://i.ibb.co/kxcZKMS/yuri-Kredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y3jg2bL)
(https://i.ibb.co/tPbWSHh/Igorredgreen.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6J4f2yZ)
Good fencing with you.
Best Regards.
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Further points to WAB :-- there were reports of orange snow? note that watermelon snow algae is red and the associated snow appears pink.
If you are talking about reddish Chlamydomonas nivalis seeds, whose cells are thickly filled with red pigment? We have seen such reddish fields many times not only on the pass, but in many other places as well. They appear only on hard snow (nast) and increase in colour closer to spring. What does it have to do with the death of Dyatlov's group?
- YuriD's jumper was disintegrating and covered in orange powder?
Where'd you get that from? There was even talk of some kind of purple shade, but there was nothing else but talk.
https://dyatlovpass.com/igor-makushkin?lid=1"Then mother brought Yuri's things. And what was there? Not much. We lived very poorly. For 4 years of study, mother somehow managed to get him a coat because all he had was a jacket. This is in the freezing Sverdlovsk. Unthinkable. And she sent him a coat. And this when Yuri was no longer alive. How did mom cried. I remember that she was telling and showing a sweatshirt and a sweater, both ruined. Tinted with orange powder.""So far, this version still does not convince me to the end. After all, the algae itself turns red, and the puddles are orange. It is necessary to conduct an experiment by staining dark things in this algae to find out if the red color turns to orange over time, and in what form and color it is stored on dark clothes. If dark cotton clothing is stained with orange, then this issue can be considered closed. It will be one secret less."
By the way, do you know where those conversations came from?
Another question: Did you ever see the color of a fresh corpse that had just been dug out of the snow?
If you haven't, here's a photo:
(https://d.radikal.ru/d28/2002/b8/94f8a38afdc0t.jpg) (https://d.radikal.ru/d28/2002/b8/94f8a38afdc0.jpg)
It is that from rocket fuel, too? :)It's a good theory! :)
- Semyon's plane2 photo is so named because it looks like an aerodynamic structure?
1. This photo is not of Semen, but of different Valentin Yakimenko's considerations, which have nothing to do with any picture.
2. This is a strong increase in the hyposulfite crystal on the film, because it was not washed well. Since the storage of such films for several decades, these crystals sometimes appear. The size of such a crystal is a few tenths of a millimeter, or hundredths of an inch. Next to the perforation window of the film, they seem gigantic. Like this:
(https://a.radikal.ru/a32/2002/03/0f82f7643db8t.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a32/2002/03/0f82f7643db8.jpg)
(https://c.radikal.ru/c00/2002/8b/78c6437cd621t.jpg) (https://c.radikal.ru/c00/2002/8b/78c6437cd621.jpg)
It is that the famous "Plane"?
These are common defects on the film when it is stored for a long time. This is quite clear to anyone who has taken film photography before digital photography appeared.I don't accept that Plane2 is a defect. It even has signs of graupel melting on the lens (twice). Some coincidence for random damage.
(https://a.radikal.ru/a21/2002/a4/f8969f3cc8aft.jpg) (https://a.radikal.ru/a21/2002/a4/f8969f3cc8af.jpg)
The width of the film perforation window is 0.11 in. A crystal called "Airplane" is about 20 times that size.
- Lyudmila's yellow brown face / white chin suggests chemical exposure? Unlikely to be sunburn....
This is not an argument at all. In a medical study in May, she didn't have half of her facial tissue at all. What color is there to talk about?The autopsy states "yellow/brown face" and her morgue photo clearly shows a white chin.
- the tent has many tears on one side and only one on the other side suggesting an asymmetry of degradation?
It shows that the wind carried the sparks from the furnace exhaust into that line. And nothing else. Hitting the tent with rocket fuel burns it completely. It depends on the concentration.
- after the discovery of the tent one of the first actions of the military is to sweep the area with metal detectors commanded by a senior staff officer (Lt Colonel)?
That was far from the first action. Soldiers of the railway troops arrived at the place together with the second or even third shift of the search participants. This is a traditional military mistake: to bring mine detectors and search under deep snow for people who have almost no metal objects. This was the case in my practice several times when the military was given the command to participate in the search. Never once did they find anything, but they have always acted with mine detectors. By the way, the lieutenant colonel himself did not come to the pass, he was in Ivdel city, where the headquarters of the battalion of railway troops was located. They were building a railroad from Ivdel to the Ob River. Soldiers of the railway troops were on the pass for a short time. There was a man with the same first name on the pass - Shestopalov - in the third group of search participants. He was a student at the UPI University.
You can't build theories based on rumors and conversations only. That's the way to a dead end. That's interesting information.
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.........................................
For me the key thing is finding THE narrative, the one that explains ALL the evidence. Not just some of it. There's 75 plus narratives that can do that.
The number of theories is not an approximation to the truth. Rather, it is the opposite. This is the case when a lot of garbage is thrown on a small number of necessary objects.
So that's a very controversial statement. Yes agreed, you may have misunderstood my point. Quantity is not quality.
Hence the missile theory, the problem with the ball lightning theory is that it's very good at explaining say 98% albeit with a somewhat low probability but not 100%. But the missile theory can explain everything. The big problem with it is that it requires an explanation for the lack of debris which makes certain members here scoff. afraid7
If you know well about rockets or ball lightning, it doesn't explain anything, because it immediately leads to contradictions when something is said that wasn't there at all, or at the time the conversation is going on.
As for the missile debris on the ground, that is the best proof that there were no missiles. Even in the XVIII century proved a simple natural wisdom: nothing disappears into nowhere, and nothing of anything appears. Mysticism is only a form of imagination in individuals, but has no proof in nature.The missile theory is challenged by the lack of debris argument. A cleanup operation is the only solution. Curiously my best guess at the ravine deaths is crushed by a tracked vehicle suggesting that the military were onsite post the event..
But hovering helicopters leave snow rings....
If you know the aerodynamics of helicopters well, you wouldn't make such claims. Helicopters has never left such rings. It's a myth invented by those who only know about helicopters that he's seen them from afar.
I'm thinking of a snow version of this Chinook in dust photo -
(https://i.ibb.co/P5VMTpG/index.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The turbo prop exhaust warming the snow making it stick at the perimeter.
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The exploding missile scenario explains why the group would flee the tent and how some of the injuries might have occurred. I agree with some of the others that it seems all nine hikers would have been enveloped and suffered significant injuries. Even a very localized rain shower that covers only one square mile would have been felt by all the hikers. Surely toxic rocket fumes carried on the wind would cover one square mile. But, that's just my opinion and may be completely wrong.
I have a difficult time believing in any execution/murder theory. Why would the group be allowed to flee to the trees, build a fire and dig a snow den? It just doesn't make sense. So we're left with exploding missiles, rockets or bombs, or a naturally occurring phenomenon such as an avalanche (or what they believed was an avalanche), gravity wind, infrasound or a snow slab. But once again, no eyewitnesses and no known reports. All we do know is that poor judgement was used in pitching the tent in such an unprotected and vulnerable location. We also know from photos and diary entries that the weather was extremely harsh even without gale-force winds. Unless by some miracle, documentation is found that can substantiate what happened that night, everything else will remain speculation.
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The exploding missile scenario explains why the group would flee the tent and how some of the injuries might have occurred. I agree with some of the others that it seems all nine hikers would have been enveloped and suffered significant injuries. Even a very localized rain shower that covers only one square mile would have been felt by all the hikers. Surely toxic rocket fumes carried on the wind would cover one square mile. But, that's just my opinion and may be completely wrong.
This is what Ivanov stated 30 years later - https://dyatlovpass.com/lev-ivanov?lid=1we found that some young trees on the forest tree line have traces of burning, but they are not in concentric shape or any other system. There was no epicenter. This once again confirmed a source of heat ray or completely unknown to us energy acting selectively - the snow was not melted, the trees were not damaged. It seemed like when the hikers walked on their feet more than five hundred meters down from the mountain, someone dealt with some of them as direct targets.If there was some aggressive chemical mist being blown down the mountain the first organic life it would encounter (other than the hikers) would be the treeline. But Ivanov talks of "a ray" without any system. So my interpretation is that within the missile theory the fuel was being blown down the mountain as streaks, not as say a cloud. This makes it quite plausible that some would be lucky and some not.
[/q]
I have a difficult time believing in any execution/murder theory. Why would the group be allowed to flee to the trees, build a fire and dig a snow den? It just doesn't make sense. So we're left with exploding missiles, rockets or bombs, or a naturally occurring phenomenon such as an avalanche (or what they believed was an avalanche), gravity wind, infrasound or a snow slab. But once again, no eyewitnesses and no known reports. All we do know is that poor judgement was used in pitching the tent in such an unprotected and vulnerable location. We also know from photos and diary entries that the weather was extremely harsh even without gale-force winds. Unless by some miracle, documentation is found that can substantiate what happened that night, everything else will remain speculation.
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I've read the Ivanov interview and he was of the belief that a manned or unmanned UFO was the source of the heat rays. These rays could target selected individual hikers. I guess missile fuel could blow down the mountain in small streams or streaks. From seeing video of missile/rocket explosions over the years, I've seen lots of fiery debris come down in bright streaks, but don't know about fuel. Perhaps there is video of airplanes dumping fuel in an emergency landing. Maybe that would show streaks of falling fuel.
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If a rocket crashed on the western side of the Urals upwind of the tent you would have a theory that explains the lack of debris, fireorbs in the sky and streaking.
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So i was thinking... How can a crashed rocket be leaking both fuel components and not just explode in a great big boom?
and then i thought, if the high winds reproduced the effect of smoke trails in a wind tunnel then that would give you the separation.
e.g. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_WgkVQWtno
Where the aerofoil confuses the streams you would get a fireorb, but crucially away from the source of the fuel. So there wouldn't be a catastrophic explosion but a steady state situation that could persist for minutes maybe 10 or even 20 minutes?
But then how do they get their injuries? These marks that seem to be of a repeating pattern?
Cue the next video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI-f_M9aEck
Lots of rockets going boom here, including the Proton M previously but go to 7.04 and watch this Titan exploding and ask yourself what could happen to someone under that fallout. Now in high winds perpendicular to gravity the lightest objects "bits of shrapnel" would travel far downstream in shallow paths hitting people side on.
So the narrative is that a rocket doesn't go into a steep dive but hits the ground in a shallow descent on favourably angled terrain (deep snow?) that doesn't catastrophically rupture it's tanks (crash lands).Both fuels are leaking but streamed by the high winds for long enough to force them out of the tent and get them down the slope before the big explosion.
It's a good fit!
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Here's another rocket fail video, checkout from 9.03.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JznGulxaE
Aluminum confetti?
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Trying youtube link again, main action from 10.00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JznGulxaEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JznGulxaEk)
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So a missile traveling at Mach 1 or faster can make a belly landing of sorts on a rocky slope? I don't think so. An exploding missile does create a perfect fireball though. One that would fill up almost an entire frame of a photo such as the one found in Zolotaryov's camera.
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So a missile traveling at Mach 1 or faster can make a belly landing of sorts on a rocky slope? I don't think so. An exploding missile does create a perfect fireball though. One that would fill up almost an entire frame of a photo such as the one found in Zolotaryov's camera.
Definately not mach 1 :).
Depending on altitude a rocket that has had a complete engine failure against high winds would fall at terminal velocity with modest forward speed over ground, potentially even zero, the plane2 object has large fins/wings which could act as air brakes with the correct orientation. Then if the major component of it's velocity vector is vertical and the wings are generating lift and it hits a snowy sloping mountain side then you have the ingredients for a crash landing. The burya had wings.
If you're struggling with the above read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87
However. If like me you consider the plane2 photo to be a genuine photo "of something in a snowstorm", then that something has a very strong source of illumination which suggests multiple rockets with one already a fireball. So the theory doesn't need leakage from just one rocket. As i've previously suggested pitting buryas against S-75s using kholat as a firing range would explain a lot.
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At the risk of shooting your fox. What happened to the debris?
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At the risk of shooting your fox. What happened to the debris?
Shoot away, that's why we're here.
The big problem with the missile theory isn't what happened to the debris (there is a case for a clean-up operation) but why did they let civilians near the area?The Soviet army was massive no need for the manpower.
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So a better question would be could all the civilians that helped locate the hikers be expected to never mention what they saw?
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So a better question would be could all the civilians that helped locate the hikers be expected to never mention what they saw?
No it's more bizarre than that :) - https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi?rbid=18461
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So from that interview either there was a wayward rocket or it was invented to satisfy the curious. Confusing. If I had to choose between the two, not sure. An elaborate cover story with no wreckage or a spectacular event but again no wreckage. Am I missing something obvious?
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So from that interview either there was a wayward rocket or it was invented to satisfy the curious. Confusing. If I had to choose between the two, not sure. An elaborate cover story with no wreckage or a spectacular event but again no wreckage. Am I missing something obvious?
It could depend on the size of the missile. An S-75 is only 10 metres in length and the second stage looks to be two thirds so only 6-7metres long. It uses nitric acid and kerosene as fuel. Multiple S-75s might work. Not a lot of debris for the snow to hide.
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So perhaps the elaborate cover story was in fact the truth, in some way.
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So perhaps the elaborate cover story was in fact the truth, in some way.
Okishev and Ivanov both stated independently that they were ordered to front a cover of "death from freezing" by a hierarchy that did not seem challenged as to the cause of the DPI. With the discovery of the ravine four this was permitted to be altered to "unknown compelling force" and the case was closed.
Askinadze claims they were told it was a missile which is a good fit for the evidence for the deaths on the slope and by the cedar. The ravine four being crushed by a vehicle which could hide it's tracks completes the military involvement theory.
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It's a wild theory but not impossible. Would there be any need to hide the vehicle track if all the searchers were sworn to secrecy? Other than the theory requiring a stretch of the imagination it would explain dropped jackets, climbing trees and lightning fires. In this theory the three on the slope died on the way down?
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It's a wild theory but not impossible. Would there be any need to hide the vehicle track if all the searchers were sworn to secrecy? Other than the theory requiring a stretch of the imagination it would explain dropped jackets, climbing trees and lightning fires. In this theory the three on the slope died on the way down?
It's not clear which theory you're referring to?
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The theory they left the tent watching /avoiding a falling rocket is a fair explanation of how it started. The crushed den in the ravine would explain the final event.
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Your missile scenario is plausible. It possibly explains the last photos on Krivonischenko's and Zolotaryov's cameras better than any other theory. It's a believable explanation of the burned tree tops and some of the odd injuries to Yuri K, Zina and Dyatlov. I wonder though, if a missile exploded near them and burning fuel was falling on tree tops, why hurry down to the trees? Or at least put on hats, gloves, shoes and coats, then head for the trees. Once the missile exploded and they realized their tent was still standing, why hurry in such panic down the slope?
As for a track vehicle running over those in the snow den, I just don't see it. Who knew precisely where the missile was going to explode? Even if the troops were several miles away from the hikers, the missile could have exploded nearer to the troops, putting their lives in danger. Was the track vehicle traveling in the ravine and continued to do so after killing the hikers? Wouldn't the forest be too thickly wooded for a vehicle to get through and up the slope? How fast could a vehicle be traveling in such heavy snow? Wouldn't the hikers have time to scramble out of the way?
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Your missile scenario is plausible. It possibly explains the last photos on Krivonischenko's and Zolotaryov's cameras better than any other theory. Yes. It's a believable explanation of the burned tree tops and some of the odd injuries to Yuri K, Zina and Dyatlov. I wonder though, if a missile exploded near them and burning fuel was falling on tree tops, why hurry down to the trees? the theory is that streams of highly toxic vapour caused Zinaida's face amongst other injuries (Igor vomiting/bleeding orifices) . If that got into the tent they'd have to get out fast and flee the area? Once soaked with one fuel component, any contact with the other would instantly ignite. (YuriK). Or at least put on hats, gloves, shoes and coats, then head for the trees. Once the missile exploded and they realized their tent was still standing, why hurry in such panic down the slope?
As for a track vehicle running over those in the snow den, I just don't see it. Who knew precisely where the missile was going to explode? A SAM would have a path to target known to the firing team? A large rocket would be tracked? Even if the troops were several miles away from the hikers, the missile could have exploded nearer to the troops, putting their lives in danger. Not if it was a SAM or multiples thereof? Was the track vehicle traveling in the ravine and continued to do so after killing the hikers? The driver wouldn't know, just feel a bump as the den's roof fell in? Wouldn't the forest be too thickly wooded for a vehicle to get through and up the slope? All the photos suggest a "ravine" (actually more of a gully?) filled with snow would provide a tree empty area to travel up or down, similar to them using the frozen river as a highway. How fast could a vehicle be traveling in such heavy snow? Doesn't have to be very fast. Wouldn't the hikers have time to scramble out of the way? Semyon had his notebook and pencil in hand which strongly suggests there was some light. So dawn had arrived perhaps. They could have been sleeping/dozing after a traumatic night. Nicolai wore the watches so he presumably was meant to be awake. I don't know but i wouldn't be surprised if snow attenuates sound rapidly. Atmospheric snow is famous for attenuating thunder (thundersnow) (to under 3 miles from memory).
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I like your idea of toxic vapor penetrating the tent. That would be cause enough to get out as quickly as possible. But how did others in the tent escape serious injury? And if the fuel fell several thousand feet, aren't the odds pretty small that in all those square miles it would rain down on such a specific spot where the tent was pitched? I guess anything's possible...
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I like your idea of toxic vapor penetrating the tent. That would be cause enough to get out as quickly as possible. But how did others in the tent escape serious injury? And if the fuel fell several thousand feet, aren't the odds pretty small that in all those square miles it would rain down on such a specific spot where the tent was pitched? I guess anything's possible...
Well Semyon and Nicolai were elsewhere. Lyudmila is interesting in that her yellow/brown face with a white chin hints at a mild version of the other group's dark orange brown hands and faces which it's my conjecture was caused by chemical exposure. So the theory would be that whilst noxious vapour forced them out of the tent worse was to come. Ivanov talks about the burnt treetops having no obvious pattern which supports streaks/streams.
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Except for the track vehicle part, I believe your scenario could very well explain what happened. I think the photos are tangible evidence that an explosion occurred. Is it possible that once the snow den was dug out a second missile exploded and the three with severe injuries were hit by blast waves? Could they have suffered these injuries without the surrounding trees being seriously damaged?
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Except for the track vehicle part, I believe your scenario could very well explain what happened. I think the photos are tangible evidence that an explosion occurred. Is it possible that once the snow den was dug out a second missile exploded and the three with severe injuries were hit by blast waves? Could they have suffered these injuries without the surrounding trees being seriously damaged?
It's my assumption that such a blast would leave obvious damage in nearby trees.
A falling tree that then (somehow) continued to slide downhill. Ball lightning has been observed to demonstrate large mass. A slabslide of the ravine snow caused by warm meltwater from the fuel affected snow on the mountain side. A big snowball (snowroller)! A 300lb Yeti jumping up and down. All very improbable of course. The crushed in the den theory doesn't need a tracked vehicle to explain the injury profile but as the other part of the narrative is military activity then it's a higher probability that's all.
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Notwithstanding my own belief they were forced out and down, even my theory /belief has flaws.
This theory by Nigel at least explains the first phase of events. Other theories, of which there are many all seem to have some conflict with the hard evidence as presented on the main site. Some are stronger than others in their possible timeline of events.
All that remains is the possibility that something happened in the tent, and led to the first phase of events. But that something really will bog you down in hypothesis.
If something odd happened in the tent, and we accept it as unknown, everything else could be attributed to slips, trips and awful luck.
In this theory, with someone requiring help or walking impeded, at least it has a definite start.
What happened in later phases in our own theories will always be defined by why we think they chose to leave the tent.
And we are all entitled to that, regardless of how bizarre it may read...
Yes the initial snowslide is well documented and supported by well experienced people; but I still struggle with the concept of looking at the tent as you departed and thinking"she's a write off, let's take our chances with the shirts on our backs under the biggest tree we can find"
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It was staring us in the face all along. A 300lb Yeti mad as hell from being awakened by an exploding missile.
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Solved. What's next?
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Solved. What's next?
Chivruay. declare1
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It was staring us in the face all along. A 300lb Yeti mad as hell from being awakened by an exploding missile.
The biggest bear yet recorded was over 2500 lbs - https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/item/which-is-the-largest-bear-on-earth/
2.5. tons jumping up and down because the missiles woke it up, don't laugh it could fit.
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Better put the coffee on
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There is a clear narrative for a Yeti. It’s just complicated by the fact there is no definitive scientifically accepted evidence for their existence.
Regards
Star man
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There is a clear narrative for a Yeti. It’s just complicated by the fact there is no definitive scientifically accepted evidence for their existence.
Regards
Star man
I not dismissive wrt the Yeti theory but the lack of footprints is, ahem a bit of a problem?
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There is a clear narrative for a Yeti. It’s just complicated by the fact there is no definitive scientifically accepted evidence for their existence.
Regards
Star man
I not dismissive wrt the Yeti theory but the lack of footprints is, ahem a bit of a problem?
You are wise Nigel. The lack of foot prints and Yetis in general is a bit of a problem.
Saying that the whole foot print business I find very lacking in terms of the available forensic information.
Regards
Star man
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Note the marks on the thigh that seem to have a repeating style.
So this is a quite selective camp fire? A 31cm burn on the leg which blows the skin, signs of heating on the foot still covered with a sock which is not burnt except for the edges and just one of his toes is charred but only on the back? (i'm assuming the back of the toe is the side that has the nail?). This "charred" word is very significant imo. How do you put your foot in a fire and only do that to one side of one toe?
Now if instead you want to consider some highly reactive "rain" landing on these areas then you have an excellent fit (imo).
Regards.
The repeating style is strongly suggestive of Yuri being subjected to torture, the attackers probably wanted him to tell them something and touched his thigh repeatedly with a burning object to extract the desired information.
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Note the marks on the thigh that seem to have a repeating style.
So this is a quite selective camp fire? A 31cm burn on the leg which blows the skin, signs of heating on the foot still covered with a sock which is not burnt except for the edges and just one of his toes is charred but only on the back? (i'm assuming the back of the toe is the side that has the nail?). This "charred" word is very significant imo. How do you put your foot in a fire and only do that to one side of one toe?
Now if instead you want to consider some highly reactive "rain" landing on these areas then you have an excellent fit (imo).
Regards.
The repeating style is strongly suggestive of Yuri being subjected to torture, the attackers probably wanted him to tell them something and touched his thigh repeatedly with a burning object to extract the desired information.
No i'd suggest the burnt leg and one side of one toe charred are better indications of torture. These repeating marks would have been tickles in comparison. Also they are repeating across Igor and the two Yuris in style only but not exactly, suggesting a unique instrument in each case, but produced from material of a repeating style.