Factual Information > Events before the incident
Events before the incident
sarapuk:
Events before the incident
All related information prior to, and leading up to the incident.
Well one potential event comes to mind and that is the potential event that caused the group to go up towards the mountain as opposed to around it through the forest. By all accounts the weather was very bad and yet the group decided to go onto an exposed mountain side and pitch the Tent. Surely it would have been better to pitch the Tent near the tree line or in the forest.
WAB:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 22, 2018, 01:54:49 PM ---Events before the incident
All related information prior to, and leading up to the incident.
--- End quote ---
Prior of beginning incident it was not revealed any especial events. The unique source of such events is all diaries of Dyatlov group. From them follows that anything, besides, that usually happens on similar ski travel did not occur.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 22, 2018, 01:54:49 PM ---Well one potential event comes to mind and that is the potential event that caused the group to go up towards the mountain as opposed to around it through the forest.
--- End quote ---
This event can cause misunderstanding only in those who has no practice of similar travel. Their exit with lifting upward completely corresponds to tactics of similar travel.
Whether it is necessary to explain that I understand as the term «tactics of ski travel» in section of categories: travel to wood, travel without the wood, the combined travel?
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 22, 2018, 01:54:49 PM ---By all accounts the weather was very bad and yet the group decided to go onto an exposed mountain side and pitch the Tent.
--- End quote ---
Judging by two last photos ( https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-32.jpg and https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/thumbs/Krivonischenko-camera-film1-33.jpg ) there was a weather quite usual for the given place during the given period of time. It happens and is much worse. For example, it is possible to look https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FaZ2RSUdFtdQLyCZXZBn0w1L01uB22cr?usp=sharing ( http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=6.0 - Reply #2 in that forum ) /
Very seldom weather happens better these conditions.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 22, 2018, 01:54:49 PM ---Surely it would have been better to pitch the Tent near the tree line or in the forest.
--- End quote ---
Yes. In it you are absolutely right. And even more correct would be that they should not go to such travel at all. grin1
And if to take this situation from tactics of similar travel anything especial in their such decision is not present. They had 3 reasons such to organize that spending night:
1.Economy time and forces for movement to mountain Otorten the next day. Light day very short (at that time = 6.5 hours), lifting from a place of a warehouse at this place (2 km or 1.5 miles + 300 m [~ 1000 ft] lifting upwards) demands an extra time and forces. They or could leave the same day on top of mountain Otorten and (potentially) save day, or they lost it having a full guarantee.
2.Being above, they could estimate at once weather and make decision to go what of variants (there them was three units).
3.They planned following travel for Subpolar Ural Mountains (500 km or 300 miles to the north). In that region it is impossible to travel without spending the night to conditions of absence of wood. For this purpose, what to be to it ready it training (including psychology, it is skill, as well as the rope-walker should to get used go at height) would be required. Therefore the organisation of such training was one of the purposes of this action.
The stop on this place was according to plan. There will easily go down to wood in a current of half an hour in any party. And under any circumstances or under any weather conditions. And the most correct would be to go down in the following inflow of the river Lozva, above on a current. It would know at them 30 … 40 minutes.
I have article (in Russian) where all these questions are considered in detail. There are many maps and schemes. If there is a necessity I can to give the reference.
PS. Climbers adhere to similar tactics (it agree point 1) also at ascensions on difficult mountains. If they have a delay to an exit on a route almost on all the day they (very often) try to promote at least on small distance (height), for this purpose, what to provide to themselves an additional guarantee of a successful ascension the next day.
The manager of this forum - Teddy - goes to mountains on ascensions. At she is possible to take an interest how much it is correct determination.
sarapuk:
Well the diaries do not tell us that much. Considering the length of the expedition I would have expected more information in the diaries, unless of course there is MISSING INFORMATION ! ? Well obviously we do not know of any special event, that is what we are trying to find out. The group did not keep to their original route plan for some reason. Yes the Dyatlov Group would have known the type of weather conditions to expect and also to avoid EXPOSED MOUNTAIN SIDES when pitching a Tent. One of the searchers, KARELIN, states that the placement of the Tent was chosen improperly, suggesting to me and maybe other investigators that the Dyatlov Group were concerned about pitching the Tent in the forest or near the tree line for some reason, and instead felt safer on a very windy and exposed mountain slope ! ?
WAB:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM ---Well the diaries do not tell us that much. Considering the length of the expedition I would have expected more information in the diaries, unless of course there is MISSING INFORMATION ! ?
--- End quote ---
The information in diaries has enough for that understanding that occurred. But for this purpose what to read that that (as at us speak) to be able «to read between lines»(с) , it is necessary to have practice of such travel. Then it is possible to understand by analogy to that much as it happens usually on such travel. There is in general an unequivocal understanding, but for the people much, which experts of such travel have no, it looks unusually and not clearly.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM --- Well obviously we do not know of any special event, that is what we are trying to find out.
--- End quote ---
Any unusual event before all tragical events (prior to the beginning of that minute have begun!) was not. All was as happens usually.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM ---The group did not keep to their original route plan for some reason.
--- End quote ---
The group completely adhered to the initial plan. If you see differences from it, please say them. I do`t see them.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM ---Yes the Dyatlov Group would have known the type of weather conditions to expect and also to avoid EXPOSED MOUNTAIN SIDES when pitching a Tent. One of the searchers, KARELIN, states that the placement of the Tent was chosen improperly,
--- End quote ---
I many times talked with searcher Vladislav Karelin and he has agreed with me (having read that I have written in article) that its estimation of actions of group in 1959 was to year a little emotional. Then at it was not enough experience of travel by woodless region. Level of sports skill at our us about identical now. He is much better me knows travel on all mountains of Ural Mountains, except the most northern - Polar Ural Mountains. Especially it concerns Subpolar Ural Mountainsat. I is better it know travel across Polar Ural Mountains, islands of Arctic Ocean, Sayan mountains and region beyond Baikal. Kola peninsula is my favourite area of winter travel, but it more simple in comparison with the others which are listed that.
--- Quote from: sarapuk on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM --- suggesting to me and maybe other investigators that the Dyatlov Group were concerned about pitching the Tent in the forest or near the tree line for some reason, and instead felt safer on a very windy and exposed mountain slope ! ?
--- End quote ---
Place tent in completely safe area does not mean absolutely correct choice. I already gave an example, when the most safe is not to travel at all. Here it was necessary compromise choice between safety and problems which are put before itself by group.
At First. It is possible not to know about dangers completely. As it was in Dyatlov group.
At Secondly. «The risk is has put a noble cause» (c). Without risk there no are good travel. The question is the risk would be considered and weighed. And also it should have the noble and real purpose. Otherwise it will be not risk, and reckless adventurism.
In Dyatlov group all it was. At-1, and At-2. That they at all did not know about danger to which they have got was bad. But even now all of us know about it very vaguely.
sarapuk:
WAB. You say and I quote ;
''The information in diaries has enough for that understanding that occurred. But for this purpose what to read that that (as at us speak) to be able «to read between lines»(с) , it is necessary to have practice of such travel. Then it is possible to understand by analogy to that much as it happens usually on such travel. There is in general an unequivocal understanding, but for the people much, which experts of such travel have no, it looks unusually and not clearly.''
A diary is usually meant to be a record of EVENTS, whatever form those events take. The writer of a diary may input their own personal feelings. The point is that there is not much in all of those diaries that help us regarding the last day or so before the big event. Very little information. So how is it possible to form an understanding of what happened ! ?
Also, and I quote ; ''The group completely adhered to the initial plan. If you see differences from it, please say them. I do`t see them.''
Its known that the Dyatlov Group intended to cross through near the forest area, which probably means about a kilometre aprox from their actual course. Why did they not keep to this intended course ! ? Instead they took a course that took them on to an EXPOSED MOUNTAIN SIDE IN BAD WEATHER CONDITIONS. Iam not an experienced mountaineer but I have been on a mountain in snow conditions and I would certainly not want to pitch a tent in such conditions and nor would experienced mountaineers if they could help it.
Also, and I quote ; ''I many times talked with searcher Vladislav Karelin and he has agreed with me (having read that I have written in article) that its estimation of actions of group in 1959 was to year a little emotional. Then at it was not enough experience of travel by woodless region. Level of sports skill at our us about identical now. He is much better me knows travel on all mountains of Ural Mountains, except the most northern - Polar Ural Mountains. Especially it concerns Subpolar Ural Mountainsat.''
Emotional. What is that supposed to mean ! ? Sometimes peoples initial reactions and observations are the correct ones. They may change their minds later on for some reason but that doesnt mean that their first thoughts are wrong.
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