Theories Discussion > Murdered
A problem with homicide theories
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: mk on December 11, 2020, 07:29:30 AM ---Lets take it back a step. Why do we think the murderers wanted to make it look "natural"? As far as I can tell, we get that because there seem to be many easier & quicker ways of killing people. (They weren't shot or stabbed, for example.) But there is very little about their actual injuries that looks natural. Additionally, as you point out, no effort was made to provide an excuse for their injuries, or for their leaving the tent. According to this theory, someone went to great trouble to cover up their own presence at the site, but no trouble at all to provide plausible excuses for the hikers leaving the tent or sustaining such injuries.
It looks to me, then, if this was the case, that the killers were only concerned with a very superficial "fooling" of the public. KGB killers had to have known that autopsies would be done--and that the injuries of the hikers would be suspicious. This implies that the killers felt responsible for not leaving any screamingly obvious signs of their own presence, but were relying on officials to make sure everything was properly swept under the rug in the end.
And, perhaps, that was done.
Personally, I am unconvinced by this theory. Partly because of what I posted earlier about simpler ways of killing people, but also because of the responses of the families at the time.
I feel that the families' responses are usually a good guess when it comes to things like this. Guesses, yes. But they have intimate knowledge of the personalities of the hikers, as well as what to expect from the culture and the government. KGB Killers were quite well known to exist. It was known that the government could make people disappear. But the families seem much more concerned with the possibility of weapons testing. While not a definitive answer, in my opinion, this lends a bit of weight to that theory.
While the families didn't have access to the specifications of the tragedy in the same way we do, they had the advantage of living at the same time, in the same place, and knowing the people involved. This can be very important when it comes to understanding why people behave in curious ways.
--- End quote ---
KGB ! ? The KGB did not have anything to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group. Of course the KGB were good but not perfect, no one is. Not even they could cover their tracks and leave no traces in the conditions that existed on that Mountainside. And of course why would they want to kill all of the Dyatlov Group, it doesnt make sense. The Dyatlov Group were all good Communists.
Star man:
--- Quote from: mk on December 11, 2020, 07:29:30 AM ---Lets take it back a step. Why do we think the murderers wanted to make it look "natural"? As far as I can tell, we get that because there seem to be many easier & quicker ways of killing people. (They weren't shot or stabbed, for example.) But there is very little about their actual injuries that looks natural. Additionally, as you point out, no effort was made to provide an excuse for their injuries, or for their leaving the tent. According to this theory, someone went to great trouble to cover up their own presence at the site, but no trouble at all to provide plausible excuses for the hikers leaving the tent or sustaining such injuries.
It looks to me, then, if this was the case, that the killers were only concerned with a very superficial "fooling" of the public. KGB killers had to have known that autopsies would be done--and that the injuries of the hikers would be suspicious. This implies that the killers felt responsible for not leaving any screamingly obvious signs of their own presence, but were relying on officials to make sure everything was properly swept under the rug in the end.
And, perhaps, that was done.
Personally, I am unconvinced by this theory. Partly because of what I posted earlier about simpler ways of killing people, but also because of the responses of the families at the time.
I feel that the families' responses are usually a good guess when it comes to things like this. Guesses, yes. But they have intimate knowledge of the personalities of the hikers, as well as what to expect from the culture and the government. KGB Killers were quite well known to exist. It was known that the government could make people disappear. But the families seem much more concerned with the possibility of weapons testing. While not a definitive answer, in my opinion, this lends a bit of weight to that theory.
While the families didn't have access to the specifications of the tragedy in the same way we do, they had the advantage of living at the same time, in the same place, and knowing the people involved. This can be very important when it comes to understanding why people behave in curious ways.
--- End quote ---
A weapon test is a good candidate I think. Particularly a low yield neutron device. This was one of my first thoughts after reading the case files. I have considered most of the theories and this scores highly I think. At the time a moratorium on testing had been signed (1958). The East was lagging behind in the development of these weapons, so secret tests, away from the usual test sites would provide an opportunity to close the gap. Select an isolated location, where nobody goes and where there is little game or livestock to raise suspicion. "Dead Mountain" sounds ideal? Undertake the test at night so nobody can see the mushroom cloud before it disperses.
If the hikers were exposed to the deadly radiation they would have deteriorated fast, within an hour or two, their bodies would begin to shut down, including their cognitive ability. It would explain alot about the tent and its condition and why they left poorly dressed. They may have felt like they were burning up. The strange skin tone can be caused by exposure. Traces of radiation on the clothes. If you are interested in this idea, look up acute radiation exposure on Wikipedia. Its interesting.
Regards
Star man
mk:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on December 11, 2020, 11:58:23 AM ---KGB ! ? The KGB did not have anything to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group. Of course the KGB were good but not perfect, no one is. Not even they could cover their tracks and leave no traces in the conditions that existed on that Mountainside. And of course why would they want to kill all of the Dyatlov Group, it doesnt make sense. The Dyatlov Group were all good Communists.
--- End quote ---
Sorry--I wasn't clear. I was speaking in scare quotes; I ought to have used them in the text. By "KGB Killers" I intended a sort of catch-all category for the stereotypical Jason Bourne (movie reference) type killers. Not necessarily the literal KGB, but any government-sanctioned or high-up-authorized uber-trained assassins or what have you.
I agree with you, actually. I don't think it was an intentional massacre supported or facilitated by any government authorities.
ninja:
Your data is not entirely correct from the point of view, if the data does not allow you to answer the question "what happened there?" - then the initial data are not correct, which ones?
we think that the group voluntarily went to sleep on the mountainside
we think the group died 1 to 2
we think it happened at night
why? because the killer wants us to think so
are you surprised at the absence of traces of strangers? but you are not looking for them ther
RMK:
--- Quote from: ninja on December 15, 2020, 06:04:24 AM ---
Your data is not entirely correct from the point of view, if the data does not allow you to answer the question "what happened there?" - then the initial data are not correct, which ones?
we think that the group voluntarily went to sleep on the mountainside
we think the group died 1 to 2
we think it happened at night
why? because the killer wants us to think so
are you surprised at the absence of traces of strangers? but you are not looking for them ther
--- End quote ---
ninja, I'm not sure I understand your point. You claim that the group was murdered, sometime before February 1st?
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