June 24, 2021, 02:50:42 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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Anyone who has been there knows that there has never been an avalanche.
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So in summary, avalanche having actually occurred is ruled out by among other things the tent, with skis underneath still being in place. An avalanche especially a slab is mostly a horizontal force and would have swept everything with it.

Fleeing the tent due to fear of avalanche... ruled out by the apparent fact, if the footprints are to be trusted, that they fled downslope. You can see on the above videos what happens and that it's essentially suicide, if you are actually expecting an avalanche to the point where you decide to abandon the tent, that it is even more dangerous to go downwards rather than stay in place. You want to instead get above the faultline that would be expected to occur above the tent in this case. Even if it's pitch dark you can easily tell if you're walking up or down a slope.

But still I think the "fear" theory might be viable. But fear of something else imminent. Unfortunately i'm not saying anything new with this....
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Manti, One theory that some folks have proposed is that in digging the large trench for the tent, the hikers weakened the snow field above. Later in the night, the snow began to slide. One hiker, Thibeaux-Brignolle I believe, was outside on watch duty. Perhaps he heard the snow cracking nearby. He shouted a warning. Those inside the tent fled immediately although poorly dressed. They moved down the slope for some distance and then stopped to reconsider. But in the dark and freezing cold they became disoriented and couldn't find the tent. They had seen the forest below earlier in the day and knew it was at the bottom of the slope. They then decided that reaching the forest was their best chance to survive.

This is a better thought out theory but it still has problems. I do think that one or two of the hikers were likely outside the tent when the "event" occurred. While very large avalanches can be very loud, smaller ones are almost silent. Slab avalanches also move very quickly (the snow that would have covered them would have been directly behind the tent). The hikers would have only had a few seconds to exit the tent. Combine all this with howling wind and a moonless night that the hikers likely experienced that night and it is almost impossible that any of them would be aware of an avalanche. The two outside might have heard or felt something but by that time it would have been much too late.

Small slab avalanches - very fast, almost no sound:



This is actually the animation used for the recent "Frozen" avalanche theory. What's funny about this one is that the animation shows, what amounts to be, a significant amount of snow that would have been impossible to escape. A tent covered in this much snow would have been fatal for all involved. Even with someone outside the tent digging it would have been nearly impossible to get everyone out in a reasonable amount of time.

It does show how quickly the tent would have been covered with almost no warning.



Skier buried under 1m of snow:



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Altercation on the pass / Re: Altercation on the pass
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on June 23, 2021, 11:46:03 AM »


As WAB said: " You need a very large amount of text to explain your position. Especially considering the fact that many positions need to be explained in great detail, because they are not understood on a domestic level.......... I'm not a writer, I'm a researcher, I want the physical result of what happened, not the number of letters on a paper .... 

Thus, as of June 20, 2021, I do not have the time to write explanations of details to the 206 registered members who have sent a number of posts between 2 and 2356 (not counting those of the Guests).
I also do not have the time to intervene in the 399 topics of "Dyatlov Pass Forum -> Theories Discussion -> General Discussion".
( https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?board=43.0 )


   
My theory

In its present unfinished and imperfect state my theory (= explanatory hypothesis), needs to be presented in 3 parts.

1°) - Re: Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death
June 20, 2021, 02:13:55 PM Reply #46
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg16299#msg16299

 + Today EBE at 06:15:41 AM Reply #47
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg16303#msg16303

2°) - Aleks Kandr's appropriate essays which will need to be slightly adapted and expurgated (of some ridiculous astrological considerations).
( I am unable to translate Aleks Kandr - Автор Алекс К correctly into English because I do not know a word of the Russian language).
  http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
  https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0
 
3°) - My posts on :  Altercation on the pas -> Altercation on the pass
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.30

Reply #30 #34 #36 #38 #40 #44 #47 #51 #55 #59

Most of my other previous posts remain valid with a few changes.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=613


 
The essential elements to remember

1) - There is one (or two ?) client, commander, sponsor who is an ex-NKVD officer of high rank from the Ivdellag.
The mentality and the motivations of the commander can only be understood if one has a little bit of knowledge over the destalinisation and of the internal conflicts in the USSR during the Thaw period (1953-1964).

2) - The  commander (without revealing his own identity ?) hired 3 mercenary killers (scoundrels recently released from a Gulag camp ?)
The 3 mercenaries were only armed with big sticks wrapped in rags and above all had no firearms (because the commander was cautious and did not trust them).
   
3) - In 10 hours of fighting the 3 mercenaries accomplished their mission which was :
  1) - To defeat and kill the 9 hikers
  2) - To bring back the eyes of Zolotariev and Dubinina, and also the tongue of Dubinina

4) - The 3 mercenaries had several advantages, which explains their final victory over the 9 hikers.
    •  The total surprise
    •  Elaborate tactics: alternating offensive and calculated tactical retreats
    •  Mental preparation to keep the initiative
    •  Training for the precision of the big stick shots in the darkness
    •  Know-how in deception, ruse and cunning for the exit from the tent and the descent towards the cedar (the use of a suffocating gas is also possible).


Optional bonus

On 3 February 1959 (as soon as they returned to Vizhay) the commander denounced (to the KGB), the 3 mercenaries still in possession of 4 human eyes and of a cut tongue........ Thus, on 6 February 1959, the KGB already knew how the hikers had been killed and detained the 3 murderers.

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I see. I like that version more. Nothing outlandish, although we have to assume a snowstorm otherwise a dark tent against the snow on the slope is easy to spot even at night. Even in a snowstorm though... they might have been able to retrace their steps back to the tent?

But then the injuries of the Rav 4 need a separate explanation.

Off topic for this thread... but I can't really see how Tibo could have such a serious fractured skull and yet no blood on his clothes. Or did the stream wash away all the blood? But not the radiation?

So anyway they all tried to survive until the morning but it was just too cold and/or some fell? Not impossible. This is then the "fear of an avalanche" theory, but really, the object of fear is almost irrelevant, it could have been anything else, the result is the same.
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Lyudmila Dubinina / Re: Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death
« Last post by Manti on June 23, 2021, 11:04:07 AM »
I might be completely wrong but I always interpreted Lyuda's diary entry about "bad mood" that will probably continue for the next two days as her being on her period.

Could be anything else really, but she seemed pretty sure it will continue for a specific number of days... makes you wonder...
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Manti, One theory that some folks have proposed is that in digging the large trench for the tent, the hikers weakened the snow field above. Later in the night, the snow began to slide. One hiker, Thibeaux-Brignolle I believe, was outside on watch duty. Perhaps he heard the snow cracking nearby. He shouted a warning. Those inside the tent fled immediately although poorly dressed. They moved down the slope for some distance and then stopped to reconsider. But in the dark and freezing cold they became disoriented and couldn't find the tent. They had seen the forest below earlier in the day and knew it was at the bottom of the slope. They then decided that reaching the forest was their best chance to survive.
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Lyudmila Dubinina / Re: Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death
« Last post by EBE on June 23, 2021, 06:15:41 AM »
I think you are right about the murder theory being probably the most plausible one. Besides multiple traces indicating presence of someone else in the area of their death (putees, knife sheath, belt strap, spoon..), the hard evidence is clear: Autopsy reports. Almost all of them had injuries on the side or back of their head. Even Igor Dyatlov - this is not stated in the autopsy report, but is visible on one of the photos from the morgue.

Also, the fire at the cedar was by all means not a fire that would be made by the group to save themselves. It was used for a different purpose.
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Well, happy to see some activity on the forum again.

If you look at the Dyatlov Pass Incident on a very high level, there is nothing surprising: hikers died in extremely cold conditions.

But if you look closer, several unusual features of the case make it what it is, and need to be explained by any theory that "solves" the case:
  • The serious injuries of Lyuda, Tibo, and Semyon, that almost certainly had to have occurred near where they were found as they would have been unable to move much after being injured
  • The others having been apparently out in the cold, without their warm clothes
  • Burn injuries to several people while the stove was found disassembled
I have come to the conclusion that many other aspects of the case are not out of ordinary or are irrelevant, such as the radiation on the clothes, broken branches on the cedar, even the cut tent which might be damage by the searchers, Evening Otorten, the much-discussed photos, etc.
However there is potentially one more aspect that needs explaining:
  • Why did they turn back south the previous day? There is a photo showing the group above the treeline from that day and the weather doesn't seem especially bad, for example they are not wearing masks like on some other photos.




Now the avalanche / "tent buried in snow" theory doesn't explain any of these points. Like Tony says, if you can dig yourself out, you can dig your clothes out too, there is no reason to abandon the tent and especially no reason to flee down the slope where the next avalanche is most likely to catch you.

Like I posted in the other thread, I've read the book and while it explains 1. and 3., it doesn't really explain 2. to me.

Actually I can't think of any other theory I've read that adequately explains these 3 aspects of the case...
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There are several problems with the 'avalanche' theory.
 
a. Even a modest amount of snow would have been next to impossible to escape. Near the area where I live, we had a number of avalanches this past winter. One alone claimed the lives of three skiers. In one avalanche, the skier was able to ski parallel the slope almost escaping the avalanche but was caught at the very edge of the slide and was covered by only 1 foot of snow and was unable to escape. Luckily, he was skiing with a friend who was able to dig him out. Even under 1 foot of snow, it is almost impossible to dig yourself out.

b. If the slide was very minor, then why not remain an extra few minutes and secure lifesaving equipment. Walking barefoot in snow is extremely painful. It's hard to imagine even the most hardened outdoors person not turning back to secure footwear even after a few minutes of walking barefoot. Often the argument is made, "there was too much snow on the tent to retrieve equipment." But not too much that 9 people were able to cut the tent and dig themselves out? If you can dig yourself out, then it wasn't that much snow to begin with.

c. Why walk almost 1500 meters to the cedar to, only then, decide to turn back towards the tents as Igor, Zina, and Rustem had attempted. What were they hoping to find that wasn't there when they left? It doesn't make sense that, if you are leaving the scene of an snow slide, to decide to turn around and attempt to return after walking 1500m down a windy, cold slope. If it was an avalanche, what was at the tent that wasn't there when they left?

d. making cuts into a canvas covered in hundreds of pounds of snow would have been extremely difficult. Not to mention the 3 cuts detailed in the report were found at a distances from each other that would be difficult to explain if the person making them were under a enormous amount of snow.

e. M. Sharavin described the cuts as being on the leeward side with the windward side folded over on top of them. Since there is no report of how the tent was found with regards to the location of the sides of the tent, all we have to go on is M. Sharavin's word. However, if this is correct, the avalanche theory does not make sense. If snow had slid down and onto the tent it would have pushed the windward side over and it would have collapsed on top of the leeward side. Then, for the theory to make sense, the cuts would have been made to the then bottom of the tent (the leeward side). After exiting the tent, the hikers then turned the windward side back over on top of the leeward side covering the cuts. So, they had time and energy to turn the windward side of the tent over on top of the cuts but didn't have energy to retrieve footwear and heavy coats?

f. But I think the biggest piece of evidence is the fact that there has never been a recorded avalanche on Kholat Syakhl despite hundreds of visitors. Even with setting up a tent, digging into the mountain, the same as the hikers did in '59 (see below).

https://youtu.be/sH-3jOO9QI0?t=307

I think the avalanche theory is the most logical - it just has many problems.

 
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