anganontaolo : General Discussion > Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ? --> August 08, 2021, 01:37:35 AM - Reply #3
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=978.msg16436#msg16436
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No matter if the force was very great, these tourists should be vigilant as they were experienced.
They were on a mountain where the wind blows very strongly (initially this place was not planned in advance). Their tent had to be attached to two trees but not with a pair of skis. In addition, they did not use their stove so it was very cold in this tent.
So why haven't they already put warm clothes in this tent? Warm clothes should be near them where they sleep.
Have they ever thought of attacks and getting ready to defend themselves against it? or else they believed that indeed there is no crime in paradise (socialist paradise) as Stalin said.
===> Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ?
Because the 3 attackers (who can be qualified as murderers or mercenary killers) benefited from a total or almost total surprise effect.
===> No matter if the force was very great,
The hasty exit from the tent without adequate equipment could easily be explained by the atmosphere (air) inside suddenly becoming unbreathable: suffocating smoke pot - or wolverine according to the theory of Igor B.
(What is more difficult to explain is the descent - which seems to have been slow and calm - to the cedar, without the necessary equipment.)
===> these tourists should be vigilant as they were experienced.
Indeed, a good principle of security is to always remember that the greatest danger is the one that we did not, or could not, foresee.
Thus, for example, in the military field it is recommended, when possible, to launch a surprise attack on the enemy on the nights of festivities or during a storm.
Lupos, who is not a supporter of the criminal theories, presents good arguments to justify that the attack took place taking advantage of a local storm: temperature = -50 °C and wind = 35 m/s.
See : Catabatic wind....
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=542.0
===> They were on a mountain where the wind blows....
Because they had taken several days to reach the slope of Kholat Syakhl (heavy bags, soft and deep snow, unknown route....) the hikers believed that they were far enough from inhabited places to no longer fear a human attack.
It was a mistake and a fatal illusion, because in fact the troika of the attackers took less than a day to reach the hikers by following their deep track from North-2.
===> So why haven't they already put warm clothes in this tent? Warm clothes should be near them where they sleep.
===> The risk was very great on this mountain and essential items should be ready if ever a problem arises: clothes, flashlight, ax, knife, etc ...
===> Have they ever thought of attacks and getting ready to defend themselves against it?
===> or else they believed that indeed there is no crime in paradise (socialist paradise) as Stalin said.
The illusion of living in « a socialist paradise » was maintained by the entire official state system (and in particular by the UPI route commission), which was trying to hide or minimize the internal unrest or difficulties of the USSR in 1959, during the Khrushchev thaw.
The period was characterized by the release of dangerous individuals caused by the uncontrolled dismantling of the Gulag, much to the displeasure of Stalinist officers in charge of the guarding of the camps ; (in this case the Ivdellag).
••• Remark N° 1 •••
I added effect of " almost total surprise " because it allowed to suppose that the 4 of the Den were a little mistrustful of the fact that they seem to have been the most warmly dressed at the time of the exit of the tent.
The 4 of Den were also probably the most educated and the most realistic in the field of the internal politics of the USSR.
• Zolotariov had the experience of 4 years of war on the Eastern Front (in this case, it must be assumed that there was no substitution of identity).
• Thibeaux-Brignole : In 1931 his father Vladimir Iosifovich Thibeaux-Brignolle and sent to SIBLAG,...In June 1933 Vladimir Iosifovich was reincarnated [rehabilitated ?] and transferred to the position of chief of the technical department in the mining area ....In 1938, Vladimir Iosifovich was sent to the deep taiga, to Gornaya Shoriya for heavy work... After all the trials, losses and humiliations, Vladimir Iosifovich's strength was undermined. He ... died... in September 1943.
• Kolevatov : Stay in Moscow and indirectly witnessed discussions between some leaders or patrons of technological research programs.
• Dubinina :Dispute or opposition in Vizhay (January 25 and 26) with the sponsor (client) of the February 1 attack by the troika of mercenary killers.
Thus it is probable that the 4 of the Den wanted to hide, while the 5 others, unaware of the inexorable exterminating will of the attackers, were quickly located by lighting a fire to warm up.
••• Remark N° 2 •••
The attentive reader of this forum will notice that this post, which wants to be an answer to anganontaolo , Reply #3, is in accordance with the TOK theory.
TOK theory = Eduard Tumanov + Per Inge Oestmoen + Aleks Kandr = surprise attack in order to kill or relentless "Altercation on the pass"
Reply #25
"• Dubinina :Dispute or opposition in Vizhay (January 25 and 26) with the sponsor (client) of the February 1 attack by the troika of mercenary killers."
Jean Daniel: What evidence do you have that Lyuda had a dispute or argument with someone in Vizhay? And why would that person then send mercenary killers after the hikers? Motive?
MDGross : Thank you for your stimulating questions. I am trying to answer you here in a way that is regrettably a bit abstract.
°°°°°°°°°
After 62 years, in spite of many efforts, no one has been able to find a really irrefutable scenario to explain the DPI.
At least if you are not convinced either by the official verdict of May 1959 or by the conclusion of Andrey Kuryakov in 2020 !
Thus, I endorse (agree with) an answer by Mihail Sharavin while being interviewed by Maya Piskareva in 2013.
But, alas, we learn the truth either from the state, or when we find ourselves in another world, where there are no diseases, sorrows and sighing ... In the meantime, it remains to intellectually entertain ourselves with a game of investigation.
While waiting for improbable revelations (but that it is allowed to hope) coming from the Russian archives two positions are possible:
Position number 1
To continue to search desperately for significant clues in the enormous amount of information currently available, (taking into account that some of it is more or less dubious).
Then you are perfectly right and you are sure that you are not wrong.
The disadvantage of this cautious position is that you are not moving forward. That is to say that in a hundred years you will be at the same point and you will repeat indefinitely:
No evidence - Just speculations - No evidence - Just speculations - No evidence - Just speculations - No evidence - Just speculations - No evidence ..........
Position number 2
To imagine a complete and coherent reconstruction in accordance with the available information.
It is a method that is frequent in History whenever archives and other documents are insufficient to reach a certainty.
It is also the situation in all the hard sciences (Physics, Chemistry,...) in which it is a question of imagining complete explanatory theories from observations or experiments. But in these hard sciences theories can generally be strengthened and confirmed by the possibility of redoing numerous verifying experiments.
Solutions are obtained by mobilizing particular resources of the human mind: intuition, imagination, common sense that go beyond simple formal deductive reasoning (proof ---> solution).
For example, in fiction, experienced investigators such as Sherlock Holmes (Conan Dyole), Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple (Agatha Christie) know how to interpret subtle clues, often of a psychological nature, in order to intuitively find the right solution, i.e. the real culprit, despite misleading appearances or staging.
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A great number of authors and forum members have proposed complete and coherent reconstructions that are almost completely written.
Of course I do not quote them all. Here are only a few examples to fix the ideas :
Teodora Hadjiyska and Igor Pavlov (1079 The overwhelming force of Dyatlov Pass) - Rakitin (meeting with American spies) - Svetlana Osadchuck (Mansi) - Igor B=Игорь Б (wolverine ?) - Lupos (Acute Stress Reaction + catabatic wind) - Nigel Evans - Investigator.................
Personally I have now become the self-proclaimed spokesman of the TOK theory as you can see in my previous posts.
According to the TOK theory a lot of questions are solved or lose their reason to exist; especially the motives of the cover up by Khrushchev and Putin (Yeltsin did not have time to deal with it).
Thus, for example, it was the 3 attackers who cut the tent canvas, then still intact, on the morning of February 2, 1959, after having defeated and exterminated the 9 hikers by a long night fight.
I plan to write one day a more orderly presentation of the TOK theory in the topic "Altercation on the pass", but for the present I still have difficulties; for example :
" The fact that the evacuation from the tent to the cedar was apparently not executed in a rushed but rather in a fairly orderly fashion. "
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MORE PRECISE ANSWER TO TWO QUESTIONS
...Lyuda had a dispute or argument with someone in Vizhay ?
Bottled Brunette understood how to explain easily that the change of mood of Dubinina which is a clue of psychological nature.
.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg6905#msg6905
Dubinina clearly by her rigid moral conceptions had to express her dissatisfaction with the very bad reception at Vizhay, which was intended to humiliate and also to swindle Dyatlov's group.
Consequently one of the men on Vizhay tried to rape her, or manhandle her a bit or a lot, but either she fought him off or it was interrupted somehow.
Sensitive young girls who are sexually assaulted by attempted rape or just being fondled, or harassed, then their personality change.
I have heard that in these circumstances, women then undergo a profound psychological changes in their personality... Anger, lethargy, depression, self blaming,....
Motive?
The question of motive is indeed both important and interesting.
To make people understand the complexity of what I also call the "WHY ?" question, I will start with a didactic introduction which is an analogy.
As Patrick has already pointed out, the DPI presents some analogies with an event, certainly much more important, which is the assassination of President Kennedy on November 22, 1963 in Dallas
One difference between the two incidents is obviously the cause(s) of death, the "HOW ?" question, which is not obvious in the case of the DPI (because JF Kennedy was incontestably mortally wounded by a rifle bullet or bullets).
An analogy between the two incidents is that some 60 years later, thousands of commentators around the world are still asking questions about these matters, (who, if anyone, was behind it ("WHO ?"), for what reasons ("WHY ?")
Mind you that I have read almost nothing about the assassination of President Kennedy (I remember mostly hearing the news of gunshots as the president passed by on French radio in 1963). The DPI is more than enough for me.
But as your "country is United States", I can assume that you have some opinion on the assassination of President Kennedy.
••• Patrick is one of those who approve the official version
Patrick : Simplest Explanation is Often the Best > February 11, 2020, 05:51:26 PM Reply #9
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=589.msg8451#msg8451
I offer you a few examples:
1) The American President Kennedy was assassinated by ONE gunman. All the proof points in that direction. Yet, any small discrepancy in the case is seized upon as evidence of a conspiracy, because there is no way (in the minds of many) that this great man could have been killed by a deranged "loser".
I don't understand this phenomenon, because my brain is not susceptible to fantasy. I am a cynic in most things (except in my love for my family). But, it exists, is part of our collective condition, and must be endured.
••• But there are those who are doubtful or even contest the official version.
You can imagine that the answer to the simple "motive?" or "WHY ?" question, may require extensive knowledge of historical and political nature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories
Regarding the possible sponsors (if Lee Ostwald is the author of the fatal shootings, then he would only be a mercenary executor), the Wikipedia article considers the following long list:
New Orleans conspiracy - Secret Service conspiracy - Cuban exiles - Organized crime conspiracy
CIA conspiracy - Lyndon B. Johnson conspiracy - George H. W. Bush conspiracy
Shadow government conspiracy - Soviet government conspiracy - Cuban government conspiracy - Israeli government conspiracy - Federal Reserve conspiracy
Military-industrial complex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories