Recent Posts

1

General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by GlennM on Today at 06:10:06 PM »

Yes, I once thought so too. Many people think so.  But T. Slinkina in her work “Mansi oronyms of the Urals” clearly defines oronym «Kholat Syakhl» not as Dead Mountain, but as Mountain of the Dead.  Slinkina is not only a candidate of philological sciences - she is also Mansi by nationality and Mansi is her native language. I think there is no reason not to trust her. In terms of language, at least.

Thanks Partog. In the big scheme, of course it is avery peripheral matter. My experience with native cultures is that there is a name and a back story. As such, her explanation gives us the name, but not the significance of the name. I understand 1079 was not holy land. Again, I appreciate you addressing the comment.

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General Discussion / Re: Last two days of the Dyatlov group: 5. Fatal afternoon for Rustem and Zinaida

« Last post by Arjan on Today at 11:44:35 AM »

Dear Kathleen,

Thank you for your view/reply on/to this post.

Several photos made from the films - found by both search parties - pose more questions than answers.

In my opinion, these last two photos from the group pose more questions than answers.

Several years ago, I have counted the number of skis and ski poles, but every time I had noted that a few too many skis are visible without bindings.
As far as I know, on all other photos, the skis are visible with bindings.

An example of two other photos that pose similar questions.

Photo from Thibo's camera:



Loose photo:



It looks like both photos had been taken within a few seconds.
The photo from Thibo's camera had very probably taken by Zinaida.

On the loose photo, Lyudmila is not visible.
If I remember well, I have read that Lyudmila had been a competent amateur photographer.
Personally I take into account that she may well had taken the photographer of this loose photo in question.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Arjan on Today at 11:20:16 AM »

Personally I don't rely on the photos (made from the films found by the two search parties) as sound evidence for events during the tour.
Several of these photos pose more questions than answers.

If I am not mistaken, on loose photo no 6. a long ski - around 2 meters long - is visible.



As far as I am aware, only Yuri Yudin had used this long size of skis.

I am aware that at least several documents state that Yuri Yudin had left the tour at 2nd settlement.

My point is:
- How is is possible that one long ski is visible on this photo, while Yuri Yudin had already left the tour?
- Had Yuri Yudin stayed the fatal night for 7 group members together with Zinaida and Rustem in the re-erected tent on one ski pole and left the next morning to alert the authorities? Three persons lying together under several blankets in the tent had easily survived that night, and Yuri Yudin had well been able to return to 2nd settlement the next morning.

This photo is of course no sound proof, that he - or another person - had stayed longer on the tour than several documents state.

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by Partorg on Today at 07:01:04 AM »

There is no way that the objects found can provide evidence of the location of the tent

The artifacts were not found “anywhere,” but in the coordinates of the Tent’s location, obtained using the serif method. I have outlined the chain of reasoning and the grounds why they can be considered confirmation of the Place. But since you think that “there’s no way they can”, it means they definitely can’t and the question can be considered settled.
Увы мне, болезному. 

My understanding of 1079's native name is more along the lines of the barren slope where nothing goes or grows there

Yes, I once thought so too. Many people think so.  But T. Slinkina in her work “Mansi oronyms of the Urals” clearly defines oronym «Kholat Syakhl» not as Dead Mountain, but as Mountain of the Dead.  Slinkina is not only a candidate of philological sciences - she is also Mansi by nationality and Mansi is her native language. I think there is no reason not to trust her. In terms of language, at least.

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by Partorg on Today at 06:48:08 AM »

delete.

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by Олег Таймень on April 18, 2024, 09:02:45 PM »

First, the actual location of the tent is a mattter of dispute

The location of the tent was established with an accuracy of ±5 meters in 2013 by detecting some small objects that in 1959 could have been lost in the immediate vicinity of tent.

There is no way that the objects found can provide evidence of the location of the tent. Firstly, it is not known whose objects these are. There are different opinions on this matter. Secondly, numerous search engines could disassemble ski poles anywhere on the slope. Or in several places.

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General Discussion / Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on April 18, 2024, 03:39:53 PM »

In the nature of fair and equal debate.

Where is the evidence for outsiders?. Physical evidence of outsiders at the location and / or documentation or statements of outsiders?.

Please let's gather the evidence as a community.

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by GlennM on April 18, 2024, 01:06:23 PM »

Partog, thank you.  Your analysis suggests there is are areas at the top and base of the leeward slope where turbulent air facilitates the deposition of snow. Once resolved a laminar flow of air and particulate flow unimpeded in the mid section. In addition,  I've seen wind scour away sand at the base of a wind shelter. So, buildup and tear down of wind driven material is the rule, not the exception. This certainly reinforces the idea that turbulence caused by the tent would serve to increase the height of a snowbank windward of the tent. Appreciated.

My understanding of 1079's native name is more along the lines of the barren slope where nothing goes or grows there.

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by Partorg on April 17, 2024, 07:51:52 AM »

Snow on leeward slopes is unevenly distributed. On the upper third of the slope, the wind flow saturated with snow, turbulized by the flow around the ridge, deposits a certain amount of snow and a small accumulation occurs there. If the lee slope is steeper than ~30°, cornices may form on the ridge. If the bend is smaller, cornices do not form and the snow accumulation looks like a gentle hill. In the middle third of the slope, the wind flow is laminar and the snow almost does not linger there, and in the lower third, precipitation begins again, reaching a maximum at the bottom of the valley. It is precisely this classic layout that we see on the slope of the NE spur. 1079
The tent was located on the border of the upper and middle thirds of the slope, and snow was periodically accumulated and removed there.
In the middle third of the slope all the snow is mostly carried away, so it remained there in the form of footprints-columns cleared from the surrounding snow.
In the lower third, the footprints were simply covered in snowstorms.

As for the name of the mountain. If you trust Slinkina’s dictionary, the word: “kho'olat” translated from Mansi means “dead people.” Moreover, the dead are very ancient, mummified, mossy, almost petrified. At the top of 1079 there are several low, horizontally elongated flat rock-remains, which may well be associated in the imagination with some ancient Mansi burials.
But this is my purely subjective opinion, which I do not hope to impose on anyone )).

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General Discussion / Re: AVANLANCHE THEORY

« Last post by GlennM on April 17, 2024, 05:23:15 AM »

We must also consider those footprints again. Did they lead from the tent all the way to the woods? No, why not? They were obscured owing to a mass movement of snow. It seems clear that slides, slips, slumps and even avalanches occur on the slope of 1079. The right combination of angle, densities, wind and barren landscape make it a reality. Them Mansi knew this, hence the name of 1079.