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Author Topic: 6 People on the slope  (Read 1667 times)

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February 02, 2022, 01:09:13 PM
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Osi


 In the loose photo, 5 people are digging a place for the tent on the slope. All items and ski equipment are left just above the tent. In the next similar photo, the things have started to be covered with snow, and there is an impression of snow but warm weather. Zina who took the picture. 2 Yuri, Dyatlov, Rustem and Kolove are in the pit. Where are the other 3 people, lyudmila, Semyon ,tibo. Presumably, they were assigned to go down to the valley to collect wood, to need toilets and to supply water at 17 o'clock at the time of the excavation of the tent site. The fact that Semyon is on his camera, his sheltered clothes and boots are incompatible with the other 6 people who left the tent in panic. The tent is set up, the goods are taken into the tent and the rusks are divided into the middle for dinner. Wet clothes are removed. It's starting to get dark. No one returned from the 3 people in the valley. 2 people who try to get water from the stream and want to cross, slip and fall from 3-5 meters into the rocky valley and are injured. The third person comes to the forest border and cries for help towards the slope. Hearing the voices, the group deceived by the warm weather 1 hour ago and before they could open the tent entrance, they cut the tent and run towards the valley. Leave a lit lantern on the tent and solve the problem in the valley, come back in half an hour. When we went down to the valley, it was understood that the situation was dire. 2 yuri procured firewood from the cedar. While Dyatlov was cutting the fir saplings, rustem and Zinaida dug a shelter. Of course, the hypothermia effect came to a critical level at this time. The fire did not get stronger. Kolovetov and Semyon remained at the head of the wounded in the ravine.2 Yuri weak fire could not resist much. The timing of death was pretty close for all of them. Even if the chest traumas in the valley were not due to the fall. It must be expected that the snow mass moving as a result of the snowmelt will break the unthawed frozen bodies in the direction of the lower valley and sweep them into the stream.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 05:43:16 AM by Osi »
 
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February 02, 2022, 08:25:50 PM
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GlennM


Osi, I like your new hypothesis. Six to rescue three which goes bad. The sticking points are that a rescue party need not knife their shelter before going down hill. The rescue party would make a deliberate effort to go down hill and as such would be properly clothed. The fallen in the ravine would not wear the clothes of the two whom died at the cedar it is a matter of timing. I agree that the cause of the tragedy was a natural one. I think everyone at the tent left together because something alarmed them. I think the cardinal symptom was a ground tremor. It could have been precipitated by a slab snow slip or an aerial disturbanc, but it spooked them. I think they succumbed to their injuries and the elements by underestimating the risk they put themselves in. That said,  if you continue to refine your ideas, I'll be pleased to read it.Good post.
 

February 02, 2022, 10:54:07 PM
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Osi


Thanks for your contribution, GleenM. For myself, if I heard a cry for help from my friends, I would dig a hole for the exit from the tent. There was probably a critical situation in the valley. Avoiding a life-threatening danger is 10 times more important than repairing the cut tent.
 

February 03, 2022, 01:31:43 AM
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Teddy

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Where are the other 3 people, lyudmila, Semyon ,tibo. Presumably, they were assigned to go down to the valley to collect wood...

Lyuda wouldn't be sent for wood because she can't carry her own backpack leave alone logs. She had recently been injured: https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Central-Sayan





And on the fateful trek she is always with a small backpack.



 

February 03, 2022, 02:16:13 AM
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Osi


Why try to climb the hill, which requires serious effort, knowing that Lyutmila is injured? Dyatlov could send the team across the forest border to Lozva. If you remember the picture where Semyon and Dyatlov are talking standing, liyutmilada enters the photo frame. It looks very healthy and resilient. (Preparation for hill climbing). Liyutmilan does not need to carry wood, he may have descended into the valley for a humanitarian need. In addition, 3 people left their cargo in the tent place. The closeness of Liyutmila Semyon and Tibo in the travel photos seems to have been influential in their mission to descend into the valley.
 

February 03, 2022, 02:42:58 AM
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Teddy

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Why try to climb the hill, which requires serious effort, knowing that Lyutmila is injured?

They have to climb the hill to continue their route. I don't believe they stayed overnight on the hill though. I think they camped in the forest.
This is summary of my theory: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1051.msg17199#msg17199
 

February 03, 2022, 04:55:03 AM
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Manti


  and there is an impression of rainy but warm weather.

I like your theory. But impression of rainy warm weather? Even at noon, it couldn't have been warmer than -10C at the pass.Do you say rainy because their clothes look wet? I think they were being snowed on and it melted due to their body heat...

They have to climb the hill to continue their route. I don't believe they stayed overnight on the hill though. I think they camped in the forest.
This is summary of my theory: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1051.msg17199#msg17199
I have read the book, but one of the questions that remained bugging me is why they would choose that spot on the slope to set up the labaz? Do you have a view on this? It is a bit out of the way, requires "climbing" a bit more than necessary to cross the pass, and also looks like an area that is prone to be covered in deep snow because it is downwind of a ridge, the prevalent wind (from NW in the area) tends to deposit snow on the leeward side of ridges... I wouldn't build a storage there because it might be impossible to find if a snowstorm happens

Their planned route: 217 miles in 15 days. That's 14 miles a day.
On their last day, they covered 1.5 miles. Why?
 

February 03, 2022, 05:09:28 AM
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Teddy

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I have read the book, but one of the questions that remained bugging me is why they would choose that spot on the slope to set up the labaz? Do you have a view on this?
The plan was to return on the ridge.


 

February 03, 2022, 05:33:00 AM
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Teddy

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The scheme is following Igor Dyatlov's plan approved by the Routing Commission


 

February 03, 2022, 05:46:51 AM
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RMK


Why try to climb the hill, which requires serious effort, knowing that Lyutmila is injured?
To clarify: Lyudmila had been injured before the trek to Otorten.  She had been accidentally shot in the leg during a trek the previous summer.
 
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February 03, 2022, 05:59:28 AM
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Manti


I have read the book, but one of the questions that remained bugging me is why they would choose that spot on the slope to set up the labaz? Do you have a view on this?
The plan was to return on the ridge.


Yes; but still the particular place of the trench seems like a bad choice.

Plus, even if they return along the ridge, they would need to go down to the treeline daily for firewood, and maybe drinking water etc, I assume. So they could have placed the labaz near the treeline.
Or is my assumption wrong?

Their planned route: 217 miles in 15 days. That's 14 miles a day.
On their last day, they covered 1.5 miles. Why?
 

February 03, 2022, 06:13:44 AM
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Osi


I think it started around noon. The aim was to rise a little and dominate the environment and descend to Lozva with the view. When they arrived at the place where the tent was set up, they lost a lot of time. It was snowing and the fog was falling. Taking advantage of the last light of the day, it was necessary to set up a tent and spend the night here out of necessity. It was not a choice, but there is nothing to do. The only problem is insufficient wood. 6 people would set up the tent, Tibo Semyon and Maybe Lyutmila 3 people would go down to the forest in sight and bring wood. The fact that Semyon and Tibo were wearing shoes provides strong evidence that they were not in the tent at the time of the escape.
 

February 03, 2022, 06:14:42 AM
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Teddy

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Yes; but still the particular place of the trench seems like a bad choice.

But not bad to pitch a tent?
 

February 03, 2022, 06:16:45 AM
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Teddy

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Plus, even if they return along the ridge, they would need to go down to the treeline daily for firewood, and maybe drinking water etc, I assume.
How do you mark where to go down on a ridge blown by the storms at all time? They will simply lose the supplies.
 

February 03, 2022, 07:57:04 AM
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Manti


Yes; but still the particular place of the trench seems like a bad choice.

But not bad to pitch a tent?
I think it's even worse for pitching the tent. I just don't understand why they dug that trench there at all..


How do you mark where to go down on a ridge blown by the storms at all time? They will simply lose the supplies.
Hm.. maybe a good place to store items is next to the boot rock? It will remain recognizable even if there are metres of snow. Or another prominent rock formation, there are a lot of these, even just a bit further up the ridge from the tent..

Their planned route: 217 miles in 15 days. That's 14 miles a day.
On their last day, they covered 1.5 miles. Why?
 

February 03, 2022, 08:02:25 AM
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Teddy

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Hm.. maybe a good place to store items is next to the boot rock? It will remain recognizable even if there are meters of snow. Or another prominent rock formation, there are a lot of these, even just a bit further up the ridge from the tent..
I agree. It is only slightly, half a mile give or take, out of the way if you intend to continue on the ridge, but it is a great place for everything.
 

February 04, 2022, 08:44:37 PM
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GlennM


If there was a conspiracy, then we should not look at the hikers, but instead follow the money. Nobody would harm or confuse the death scene unless there was both risk and reward. Follow the money. Whose financial circumstance or social standing  improved afterward?  This was not the work of a single person, so how much did the silence of others cost? I think the answer to these questions is "nothing".  There were no deathbed confessions nor great personal gains to be had. Even in those suspicious old days, someone should know and vodka makes tongues slippery. The truth would be known by now.
We remember there were two expeditions at the same time. Only Dyatlov`s met with disaster. If they stumbled into the wrong place at the wrong time, certainly the other group would become somehow involved. This did not  happen. During their final days it is clear that after losing the marked trail and plowing snow, the hikers would cache and camp on high ground. Trekking through the forest in deep powder makes little sense, and Igor was intelligent. The tent was placed on leveled snow, supported below with skis, placed properly against the snow shelf and intelligently laid out inside, including the position of the stove. No conspirator would know Hiking club methods for making camp. There are claims the bodies of some were turned after death. The persons making the claims in the field were not medical people and the bodies in question were clothed. How could a person tell? If one insists on this, then I suggest they died, blood settled, they froze and the wild wind rolled them over. Footprints are found in the snow. Was the kind of footwear determined before or after the tent was found? Was this determined before or after the three returning hikers were found. Were they footprints at all? They were raise impressions in the snow, but obscured by other snow 500 feet down hill. This is the same hill three dead hikers are found buried by snow. Magical snow. All in all, it seems the hikers acted perfectly logically and rationally. They kept to the high ground, made cold camp and were forced to leave by a percieved threat of natural cause. A ground tremor portending a snow slip prompted their exit. Whether in day or night, they simply underestimated the distance to the forest, became mentally dull owing to cold and hunger, They tried to keep warm at the cedar, but the wood was to wet. Three heroically tried to return but their bodies failed them. Two succumbed by the fire and four were trapped in a ravine, injured, hungry and cold. After discovery, the Soviet appeared to make every effort to investigate and honor the dead with a decent burial. I have difficulty seeing this any other way. The facts speak for themselves. With respect for differing opinions, of course.
 

December 01, 2022, 11:18:56 PM
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ilahiyol


I think it started around noon. The aim was to rise a little and dominate the environment and descend to Lozva with the view. When they arrived at the place where the tent was set up, they lost a lot of time. It was snowing and the fog was falling. Taking advantage of the last light of the day, it was necessary to set up a tent and spend the night here out of necessity. It was not a choice, but there is nothing to do. The only problem is insufficient wood. 6 people would set up the tent, Tibo Semyon and Maybe Lyutmila 3 people would go down to the forest in sight and bring wood. The fact that Semyon and Tibo were wearing shoes provides strong evidence that they were not in the tent at the time of the escape.
The fact that Semyon and Tibo are shod indicates that they did not work to set up the tent. That's why they are not in the photo when the tent is being set up. And after the tent is set, everyone must have entered the tent. But because Semyon and Tibo were working and sweating, they did not take off their outer clothes and boots. And Ludminada did not participate in the study because she was weak. And since this group of three was both fully clothed and cold-blooded, they formed a group by including Kolevatovu. And since they didn't have to make a fire or go back to the tent, they sought shelter both to hide and to shelter from the cold. And in that shelter, wait for morning to be both hiding and being protected from the cold. But unknown coercive force found them, and because they were in a cramped environment, they received severe blows. Because it is different to kill in a tight environment and in a large environment. It is more difficult to kill in a tight environment. And of course you make the attacker even more angry! So they took heavy blows and their death must have been more violent.
 

December 01, 2022, 11:49:45 PM
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ilahiyol


I think it started around noon. The aim was to rise a little and dominate the environment and descend to Lozva with the view. When they arrived at the place where the tent was set up, they lost a lot of time. It was snowing and the fog was falling. Taking advantage of the last light of the day, it was necessary to set up a tent and spend the night here out of necessity. It was not a choice, but there is nothing to do. The only problem is insufficient wood. 6 people would set up the tent, Tibo Semyon and Maybe Lyutmila 3 people would go down to the forest in sight and bring wood. The fact that Semyon and Tibo were wearing shoes provides strong evidence that they were not in the tent at the time of the escape.
Unless there's a huge storm, there's no reason not to land at the forest border just 1km away. If there was a huge storm, it would not have been possible to set up a tent. They didn't go downhill to the forest border, which is only 1km away, instead of pitching a tent, which was very difficult in the storm??? This should be the MOST IMPORTANT question of this form!!! Don't let anyone say they didn't know where they were. It can be predicted that the forest border will be very close, even if it is not visible from the fog. And they probably knew that the forest was very close. So why did they choose to pitch a tent, which is probably more difficult than going down into the forest??? You will both set up a tent and be at least 10 degrees colder than the forest all night! You will also stay away from firewood and drinking water!!!???Why??? Why??? Why??? Who can answer? There is never a logical answer. Maybe a bunch of bum, mindless, ignorant young people can make this big mistake. However, it is not possible for 9 experienced mountaineers to make this big mistake. The only answer is that there is a force that forces them to pitch their tent there.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 12:04:36 AM by ilahiyol »
 

December 02, 2022, 12:04:51 AM
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ilahiyol


There are usually no storms in the forest. It is much easier to set up a tent. And the weather is at least 10 degrees warmer. And there is firewood and water to drink. There are many places to do your humanitarian need. And you are also protected from heavy rain, lightning and visibility. Despite all this, there can be no justification for pitching a tent on the slope. Even if they stay overnight, going down to the forest is the only solution. They probably wanted to go down into the forest before, but they encountered something in the forest that was bothering them and they decided to head back to the slope. But the unknown coercive force did not leave them alone and must have followed.
 

December 02, 2022, 06:14:34 AM
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GlennM


After the cache was laid, the hikers proceeded. They need to make up for lost time. They could have used Dyatlov Pass, turned right and been in the forested area by the cedar. It appears they climbed higher than Dyatlov Pass, turned right and tried to make up for lost time by covering the open ground on 1079 enroute to Otorten Mtn. It is claimed that fog and snow obscured their view. Perhaps the prudent thing was to make camp on the ridge rather than turning right and marching down to the cedar area. Therefore they make a cold camp. When conditions worsen, they start thinking that camping on the slope is not such a great idea. However, it is only one night. Then they experience a slab slip. With their tent crushed, cold, underfed and tired they do not see the benefit of digging out their tent at night in a cold windy hillside. It could get worse. Perhaps by retreating downhill, they can establish both a fire and an overnight shelter and wait for daybreak. They do this as evidenced by their foot prints to the woods, fire at the tree and the snow cave. All subsequent injuries and location of remains suggest a decision to break up the group, perhaps owing to who is more or less injured. One party attempts to regain the tent. The other hunkers down.  None can prevail against the conditions. All perish.

In summary, in order to stay on schedule, the hikers choose a more efficient approach to Otorten, only to be caught out by adverse weather. Their attempts to protect themselves and their camp failed.