June 23, 2021, 04:53:06 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: A problem with homicide theories  (Read 2475 times)

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March 19, 2021, 05:18:18 AM
Reply #30
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Manti


enemy political/military unit (they look like one age/equipment).
Wouldn't this suspicion immediately be dispelled though when the Dyatlov Group start talking in the local Russian accent, and they see there are women in the group ?

April 02, 2021, 07:59:21 PM
Reply #31
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ninja




This topic=744.0 is a continuation of the first posts sent by ninja, unfortunately in Russian, which makes these posts difficult to understand for the ignorant like me (I use Russian -> French machine translation software. I hope ninja will be able to use English -> Russian software). So preferably start by reading the topic=753.0 :
   
    Dyatlov Pass Forum > Theories Discussion > General Discussion > real timeline  (реальная хронология)
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=753.0
           
Reply #4
Ninja. What is that you are actually trying to say  !  ? 

Nevertheless, I think that I have understood the most important thing. ninja explains to us that the hikers were slowed down by the deep soft snow in the Auspiya valley. That is why, during the last 2 days (January 31 and February 1), the hikers were only able to progress over a very short distance and also why the hikers did not have time to write in their diary.
     ninja will also soon explain why he suspects that Zolotaryov is playing a disastrous role...(I may be mistaken).

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I agree, the photos " N°11 and N°12, Loose photos, https://dyatlovpass.com/loose-photos ", of the intallation of a tent were taken on the evening of January 30 and NOT on the evening of February 1.


It does not matter where the tent is exactly located on the night of January 30 to January 31.
ninja  indicates this location by the red cross with the indication "30.01" on the map below.
In my opinion the location of the tent could also be two kilometres further south, at the end of the purple line.


The hikers found themselves in a very soft snow, which made the progression difficult and slow even with skis.
It was this kind of soft snow, but it is not the same place :


See also :
Manti :  Theories Discussion > General Discussion > Walking a km in deep snow
   https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=740.0

Remark N°1 : The Mansis seem to be better equipped for winter than the hikers --> wider skis, thicker clothes....

Remark N°2
 • While approaching the summits of the Kholat Syakhl (1079) and Otorten by the Auspiya valley the hikers probably followed a short itinerary in distances but longer in time because they had to cross deep and soft snow areas.
It is a "slow" itinerary but sheltered from the wind, which I will henceforth call "the Auspiya Valley itinerary".

 • On the contrary, the hikers would probably have been faster  (would have taken less time)  if they had skied on the hard snow, above the taiga, on the hillsides, following the crest line defined by the peaks :
     706 - 833 - 813 - 968 -937 - 1034 - 1051 - 994 - 1079(Kholat Syakhl)
 
These peaks are visible on the above good map sent by ninja

This route may start with the dotted line (east to west) at the bottom right of the map.
This is a "fast"route on hard snow but exposed to cold wind, which I will henceforth call "the ridge itinerary".


°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

The arguments of ninja - if I have understood correctly - are based on the fact that we probably do not have any photos or writing on diaries made after January 30, since the "Leaflet Evening Otorten N°1" was recopied and so the date could have been easily changed.

However I think that the details, certainly interesting, which are brought by ninja do not prove that the hikers were not killed during the night of February 1 to February 2.

On the contrary, I think that the hikers were very much alive on January 31 and February 1. After the 30th of January the hikers peacefully went on their way and set up the tent where the rescuers found it on the Kholat Syakhl slope on the evening of the 1st of February.

  • Because how else to explain this picture of the tent :

 

  • And also how to explain the presence of the Labaz containing 50 kg of food, which took several hours to install on the evening of January 31 or on the morning of February 1.


  • And also how to explain the location of the corpses of Kolgomora, Slobodin and Dyatlov on the slope of the Kholat Syakhl (because according to my hypothesis N°3 nobody made the effort to move the bodies away from the place where they fell, stunned or mortally wounded, and never stood up again).



Lets take it back a step.  Why do we think the murderers wanted to make it look "natural"?  As far as I can tell, we get that because there seem to be many easier & quicker ways of killing people.  (They weren't shot or stabbed, for example.)  But there is very little about their actual injuries that looks natural. Additionally, as you point out, no effort was made to provide an excuse for their injuries, or for their leaving the tent.  According to this theory, someone went to great trouble to cover up their own presence at the site, but no trouble at all to provide plausible excuses for the hikers leaving the tent or sustaining such injuries.

It looks to me, then, if this was the case, that the killers were only concerned with a very superficial "fooling" of the public.  KGB killers had to have known that autopsies would be done--and that the injuries of the hikers would be suspicious.  This implies that the killers felt responsible for not leaving any screamingly obvious signs of their own presence, but were relying on officials to make sure everything was properly swept under the rug in the end.

And, perhaps, that was done.

Personally, I am unconvinced by this theory.  Partly because of what I posted earlier about simpler ways of killing people, but also because of the responses of the families at the time.

I feel that the families' responses are usually a good guess when it comes to things like this.  Guesses, yes.  But they have intimate knowledge of the personalities of the hikers, as well as what to expect from the culture and the government. KGB Killers were quite well known to exist.  It was known that the government could make people disappear.  But the families seem much more concerned with the possibility of weapons testing.  While not a definitive answer, in my opinion, this lends a bit of weight to that theory.

While the families didn't have access to the specifications of the tragedy in the same way we do, they had the advantage of living at the same time, in the same place, and knowing the people involved.  This can be very important when it comes to understanding why people behave in curious ways.
you did not quite understand my thoughts correctly, I will try to master the translator better, I did not claim that something slowed down the tourists, I prove the opposite, the tourists were ahead of schedule, at the expense of the car to the 41st block, the horse to the 2nd north, the trail almost to the mountain, there can be no question of any delays, photos, tracks, diaries prove where and when the group was, in order to confuse these facts and adjust everything to the 1-2 number, an unknown diary was written, a warehouse with food was created, the evening was torn off, irrefutable evidence, I will try to bring them all in a convenient form
not made where you are, as well as the Dyatlov group, and this again can be proved, a group of 9 people will definitely leave traces of their arrival and vital activity, for example, a bonfire, a trampled area, felled branches, none of this is in the location "warehouse", there are just personal belongings of the group, far from the most voluminous and heavy, and which could well be useful if the group thought to make a warehouse, besides, they will not have time to die in time, starting from the expected you positions, 6-8 hours to get ready, get up, decompose, go down, make a fire, make a deck and eventually freeze ? strives for the impossible

May 03, 2021, 02:31:51 PM
Reply #32
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Dona


The murder theory is easy, really. Of all the theories proposed, which of them would 9 people commit suicide over..

None. They were being forced..

May 30, 2021, 11:51:12 AM
Reply #33
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Per Inge Oestmoen



I dunno-- it seems like the most obvious way to make it look like a natural death in siberia would be to make sure they died of hypothermia.  Force the poorly-dressed campers into the forest and douse them in water. All this talk of highly-trained killing men with their specialized techniques seems so... Hollywood. 


You are correct. The most obvious way to make it look like a natural death was to make it look like death by hypothermia.

That was also intended. That is why the nine students were chased out from their tent without proper winter clothing, in the expectation that they would freeze to death within a very short time.

However, there evidently was a sudden and unexpected rise in temperature which spoiled the attackers' plan. That rise in temperature is documented by data from the weather stations closest to the area. Because of that, the resourceful students did not die as expected, and had to be hunted down. Hence all the injuries. These injuries are consistent with human attack - and can be explained by human attack only.

May 30, 2021, 11:53:14 AM
Reply #34
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Let me try to get this thread back to its topic.  If the DPI was really homicide, but the killers wanted to make it not look like homicide, why didn't they stage or fabricate some non-homicide reason why the hikers exited their tent and subsequently abandoned it?  For example, why didn't the killers manipulate the campsite to make it look like a tent fire or a small avalanche had occurred?


Because it would be too obvious that there had been no avalanche and no fire there. You cannot just make up an avalanche.

May 30, 2021, 11:58:45 AM
Reply #35
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Per Inge Oestmoen



The exact time and date of death of the Dyatlov Group is not known.
It would be extremely difficult for someone or some persons on Ski's to kill all of the Dyatlov Group. The several Events ie at The Tent, The Cedar Tree, The Ravine, seem to rule out attack by anyone on Ski's.
In fact its highly unlikely that any other person or persons were involved in the demise of the Dyatlov Group.


- It is known from the last writings of the members of the group that their deaths occurred during the night between February 1 and February 2.

- The several events are all consistent with an attack by trained killers who had to hunt down several groups of people who had fled from their attackers.

- The injuries can only be explained by lethal attack.

- The absence of tracks is what would be expected from the long period between the murder to the arrival at the scene of the first search and rescue team. In fact, most of the tracks of the students were eradicated - and they moved by foot whereas the attackers must have had skies. Ski tracks disappear much faster than deep footprints. Thus, it is a matter of course that no traces of the attackers would be found.

May 30, 2021, 07:18:37 PM
Reply #36
Online

RMK


Let me try to get this thread back to its topic.  If the DPI was really homicide, but the killers wanted to make it not look like homicide, why didn't they stage or fabricate some non-homicide reason why the hikers exited their tent and subsequently abandoned it?  For example, why didn't the killers manipulate the campsite to make it look like a tent fire or a small avalanche had occurred?


Because it would be too obvious that there had been no avalanche and no fire there. You cannot just make up an avalanche.

Well, OK, I'll acknowledge that it's not necessarily easy to fabricate an avalanche situation at the campsite.

But people have been "making up avalanches" all the time in the case of the Dyatlov Pass for a while!  grin1