December 07, 2022, 01:05:41 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Unknow diary 01.02.1959  (Read 620 times)

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February 10, 2022, 11:00:54 AM
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Osi


Three basic elements that support each other in order for people to hold on to life; food/drink, shelter and heating. Well, far from civilization, which ones do we have? The altitude increased, the sheltered forest left behind. We are on the northeastern slope of Kholat. Weather -20. night-40. Why are we here guys? Maybe out of necessity, maybe that's how we wanted it. Just now, Otorten was smiling at us in all his glory from afar. Now it's lost in the fog and storm. We have a big tent and enough food for days. We only have very limited wood. Yurko filled our stove with as much wood as he could take. Semyon and Liyutmila got very cold and complained about this imprudence... We are pitching our tent here. The children are digging the hardened snow with great effort, I guess it will take a long time. Igor couldn't take it anymore. Semyon and Tibo will carry any dry wood they can find to the tent before they go deeper into the forest. Liyutmila joined them. They will be back in an hour. They promised to be here for dinner. Igor said he will put a lit lantern at the top of the tent for the signal. The snow is very hard and the children got off very easily. We are in the tent now. The people inside are busy taking off their heavy boots as soon as possible. Blankets are warm. Yurko will take care of the stove soon. That's all for now. 01.02.1959
 

February 11, 2022, 01:10:06 PM
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Manti


Perhaps the Dyatlov case will never be solved as there will be no new evidence. All we can do is hypothesize and this requires creativity like this diary entry from you. Love it!

I also want to point out, some of these necessary elements for life are not needed immediately, for example one can survive for days without food or shelter. But water and heat are needed very soon, and herein lies a problem. Without a fire or stove, they could not have water on the slope. They would have had nothing to drink. Even if they had thermal flasks (which aren't in the inventory as far as I know), with tea they made in the Auspiya valley in the morning where they had fire, these would be enough only for the evening and they would go thirsty in the morning. This is one additional reason why I think it made no sense for them to camp on the slope.



 

February 11, 2022, 01:46:14 PM
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Osi


I guess if they had written a diary that day, they wouldn't have talked about food. But they would have talked about fire. Because they talked a lot before. Yes..you can starve for days to enter the record book, but you can think about how to delay the food you need to take during the breaks of a difficult track. Also, water is the easiest thing to get there. It was snowing while digging a place for the tent. They worked for 1 hour and sweated. I'm assuming it was -15 degrees outside. The blankets were unfolded when we entered the tent, and even though the stove was not yet lit, they had reached a temperature of -5 degrees Celsius. What is strange about Siberian children taking off their thick coats and wet boots in this environment?
 

February 11, 2022, 02:28:04 PM
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Manti


I think -15C is a good assumption. How to get water there? The only ways I can think of is: melt snow, which needs a heat source, or go down to the stream in the forest and drink there. Maybe bring back water, though it might freeze on the way.

And if it's -15 outside, it's going to be the same inside the tent, without heating. Just as cold, only less windy. That they wouldn't have undressed in the unheated tent is not my thought, I'm just repeating it, it comes from Yuri Kuntsevich.



 

February 11, 2022, 02:52:25 PM
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Osi


Dear Manti. What I want to tell is the value of the ambient temperature felt by the wind. If the normal temperature is -10, it can be felt at -25 degrees with the effect of the wind. If we cut the wind (this is possible with a tent), we can see -5 degrees with the body temperature clustering when we go inside. We have a stove and 5 kilos of wood. We can melt the snow and make water. We can also stay dehydrated until morning. Lozva is 10 km down and we Also, we can't agree on undressing. They only take off their outerwear coats that they used for walking. Again, they have a few layers of trousers and a sweater. be skiing in the morning.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 03:01:05 PM by Osi »
 

December 01, 2022, 10:29:19 PM
Reply #5
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ilahiyol


I think -15C is a good assumption. How to get water there? The only ways I can think of is: melt snow, which needs a heat source, or go down to the stream in the forest and drink there. Maybe bring back water, though it might freeze on the way.

And if it's -15 outside, it's going to be the same inside the tent, without heating. Just as cold, only less windy. That they wouldn't have undressed in the unheated tent is not my thought, I'm just repeating it, it comes from Yuri Kuntsevich.
The evening the tent was set up, the outside temperature was likely between -10 and -20 degrees Celsius. Average -15 degrees. With the effect of this temperature wind, it can rise to -25 and more. All of their clothes were on when the group made the tent. Because the outside temperature was between -15 and -25 degrees. However, the inside of the tent is at least 10 degrees warmer than the outside environment. Because there is no cold wind and people's body temperature and breathing warm the environment. In other words, the temperature between -15 and -25 outside falls between -5 and -15 degrees in the tent. And the young people who are already busy setting up the tent may have started to sweat a little. And it is necessary to remove sweat from the body as soon as possible. That's why young people, especially those who set up the tent, took off their outer clothes.
 

December 01, 2022, 10:43:38 PM
Reply #6
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ilahiyol


That's why young people, especially those who set up the tent, took off their outer clothes. So they dried immediately. And I guess Semyon Tibo and the two women didn't bother setting up the tent. Because they had all their clothes on when they were found. They may have set up 2 partially naked Yuri, Dytlov, Rustam, Kolevatov tents. Also, the 10 degree temperature difference inside and outside the tent is a significant difference. In fact, if there is a strong cold wind outside, this temperature difference can go up to 15 or even 20 degrees! In such a situation, someone who enters the tent feels as if he has entered a warm environment. And if there is sweat due to work, it will definitely take off the outer clothes on the body. This is certain. That's what 80% of people do.
 

December 02, 2022, 06:43:51 AM
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GlennM


Heat and,drinking water, excellent! If the tent were relocated from the forest to the slope as some suggest, would the lack of these two things be a troublesome omission? Now, if tent was pitched in the forest, an outside cooking fire could be made, but if wood for a cooking fire was had, then why not also heat the tent? After all, this is a Russian winter. Camping on 1079 at elevation 880 has two important downsides, no heat nor hydration. Camping in the woods could eliminate those inconveniences. Yet, conspirators moving the tent to 880 on 1079 have this problem in staging the scene.

When the DP9 were in the woods at some point, they had stream water to drink. Did they boil it, drink it ice cold?  Where is the kettle or cups?
 

December 02, 2022, 03:01:21 PM
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Ziljoe


The water is an interesting problem. It's been mentioned before but hydration is an issue. They could keep water in flasks or their body or under the blankets. But you also want hot fluids . Especially if you don't have heat. It's one of the things I think about , irrelevant to the deaths. There must be ways to do it as many a person or military personnel have survived in cold conditions. I'll need to have a search.
 

December 02, 2022, 04:50:27 PM
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GlennM


Ziljoe, the water issue is grist to the mill. Too, it is assumed that the hikers did not make a fire on 1079.,I understand this decision was to reduce weight going to Otorten after laying the cache previously. I  suppose the plan was to bring wood back from Ortoten. It would certainly be less trouble to carry because the camp already made on 1079. That seems odd. If they planned to return with firewood, they could have set up the stove and kept warm the night of the tragedy with some wood from the cache. It is also troublesome because the skis needed to get to Otorten were under the tent,.The tent would be cast down.

So the question of melt water emerges. I await your findings and report. If they were not going to heat ice, then what? Cold water for drinking only makes hypothermia worse, yes?

Also, drinking alcohol is problematic. It dehydrates the drinker, dilates blood vessels, thus increasing heat loss. Vodka would be a poor fluid substitute for water or canned milk.

Teddy's tent in the forest hypothesis gets some additional credibility owing to the proximity of both wood and water for the DP9. I still can't wrap my head around the foresters relocating the tent, nor the presence of third parties with hostile intent.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 04:58:00 PM by GlennM »
 

December 04, 2022, 05:50:49 AM
Reply #10
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ilahiyol


No mountaineer will make his tent on the top of an open mountain without a very important reason. Even if there is a sudden storm, he/she will not/cannot do this. Because setting up a tent when there is a storm is much more difficult than walking into the forest 1km away. 1 km downhill road takes at most 1 hour even if there is a storm. But pitching a tent is not possible in a storm. Let's say possible it will definitely take more than 1 hour. Maybe close to 2 hours. And it will be more tiring than walking into the forest. There is both water and firewood. And the weather is at least 10 degrees colder than the forest!!! In short, what caused them to pitch their tents on the mountain??? We need to find this.
 

December 04, 2022, 11:05:17 AM
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GlennM


The reason for the tent ay 880 may never be known. It reduces to either the hikers or the conspirators placing it there.The only viable lead is the conspiracy.  If a conspiracy, follow the money.