June 13, 2021, 08:14:57 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Exiting the tent  (Read 3458 times)

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April 02, 2021, 05:44:40 PM
Reply #60
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sarapuk

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Keep in mind in all of this it's the middle of the night,  very windy and snowy, visibility is very poor.  you have three injured and you know you need to get to the woods where you have supplies asap.  You are only going to take what you need.  You can also come back the following day to get the rest, but to survive you must make it to the storage.  This theory makes a lot of sense.  The whole objective once out of the tent was not to get stuff out of the tent but to get to the storage to safety.  I would present this, if this snow bank did in fact fall on the tent injuring some and forcing people to cut themselves out, don't you imagine it would play out very similar to what happened.  The amount of snow on the tent when searchers find it is no big deal, it has mostly blown away.

Well I would want to be properly dressed for a start, it was probably at least minus 20 Degrees Centigrade. They know that the Forest is about a mile away.
DB

April 02, 2021, 11:59:38 PM
Reply #61
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Manti



An interesting possibility, regarding navigation at the pass.  Remember that there is a magnetic anomaly there; compasses don't work there.  Sorry, it took me a couple of days to remember that, lol!!!  If the group wanted to head to the storage and their compasses were acting wonky and visibility was low with the wind throwing snow around, could that be a plausible reason that they'd wind up at the cedar if they were trying to get to the storage?
Hmm where is this information from? Measurement by Aleksander Alekseenkov of a magnetic anomaly of "1700 units"? Which units?

I'm not an expert on most things related to the Dyatlov Pass incident at all but regarding this, I am pretty darn sure there is no place except close to the North and South Poles where compasses don't work. A "magnetic anomaly" will usually be due to ore deposits below ground or groundwater, or a magma chamber... even the most prominent ones will have no effect on a compass because they are thousands of times weaker than the Earth's magnetic field and mostly just shield it, rather than generate their own field. That would require something like flowing current or swirling molten metal...

April 03, 2021, 07:29:06 AM
Reply #62
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KFinn



An interesting possibility, regarding navigation at the pass.  Remember that there is a magnetic anomaly there; compasses don't work there.  Sorry, it took me a couple of days to remember that, lol!!!  If the group wanted to head to the storage and their compasses were acting wonky and visibility was low with the wind throwing snow around, could that be a plausible reason that they'd wind up at the cedar if they were trying to get to the storage?
Hmm where is this information from? Measurement by Aleksander Alekseenkov of a magnetic anomaly of "1700 units"? Which units?

I'm not an expert on most things related to the Dyatlov Pass incident at all but regarding this, I am pretty darn sure there is no place except close to the North and South Poles where compasses don't work. A "magnetic anomaly" will usually be due to ore deposits below ground or groundwater, or a magma chamber... even the most prominent ones will have no effect on a compass because they are thousands of times weaker than the Earth's magnetic field and mostly just shield it, rather than generate their own field. That would require something like flowing current or swirling molten metal...

You are correct; the anomaly doesn't effect compasses.  I missed that in the mention of Alekseenkov. 
-Ren

April 03, 2021, 07:34:37 AM
Reply #63
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WAB



An interesting possibility, regarding navigation at the pass.  Remember that there is magnetic anomaly there; compasses don't work there.  Sorry, it took me couple of days to remember that, lol!!!  If the group wanted to head to the storage and their compasses were acting wonky and visibility was low with the wind throwing snow around, could that be a plausible reason that they'd wind up at the cedar if they were trying to get to the storage?
Hmm where is this information from? Measurement by Aleksander Alekseenkov of a magnetic anomaly of "1700 units"? Which units?

Sorry, I don't have the ability read and respond to all forum posts yet, but if there is something I know well and can answer briefly and completely, I try to do so.

 Manti, you are absolutely right ask these questions.
Back at the end of last summer we had conversation and the internet about this "anomaly."
Here are some summaries of that conversation
(if anyone is interested, here is the link in Russian https://pereval1959.kamrbb.ru/?x=read&razdel=17&tema=223&start=0 , post from 26.08.2020 04:34,):
1. Shura honestly and accurately did his job of measuring the magnetic field strength in the area where the tent was set up. There can be no complaints to him. And he honestly published all the results and got the interpretation in the form of graphs from specialist and check the value of the field strength.
2.Then followed the need realize these results in the form of physical quantities, their impact and practical application in this case.
3.All units were given in fractions and integers of nanoTesla per 1 meter of length, which means they have dimensions = 10 to the minus 9 degree or fractions and integers of billionths part of magnitude. The maximum strength value there was 1700 nTl/m or 1.7 microTesla per 1 meter.
4.A magnet from very strong  sounding speaker (Russian magnetic alloy ЮН14ДК-25БА) has residual induction of 1.3 Tesla (according to the passport), so at distance of 1 meter the magnetic field strength will be 1.3 Tesla/m. If you consider that at distance of 4 meters or 12 ft (in fact even less) already has almost no effect on the compass needle (this cannot be detected by the simple eye). If you compare this to maximum = 1.7 µTl/m, it is about 6 orders of magnitude (1,000,000 times less) than near sounding speaker.
5.The result is that this "anomaly", which is 400 meters (~ 0.25 mi) to the southeast, could in no way affect the compass, even if it were used determine direction during all events. Even purely theoretically.
6.Strong "inflating" of the influence of this anomaly, can be an example of how you can make an elephant out from fly, without using genetic engineering.  grin1
7.Shura understood it perfectly well himself, but he did his research not for that, but to be able estimate how much this change could affect winter thunderstorm, if it was there at the time.

I'm not an expert on most things related to the Dyatlov Pass incident at all but regarding this, I am pretty darn sure there is no place except close to the North and South Poles where compasses don't work. A "magnetic anomaly" will usually be due to ore deposits below ground or groundwater, or a magma chamber... even the most prominent ones will have no effect on a compass because they are thousands of times weaker than the Earth's magnetic field and mostly just shield it, rather than generate their own field. That would require something like flowing current or swirling molten metal...

There is no objection here either. There are three clarifications:
1.The compass does not work only on the Magnetic Poles, but they do not coincide with the geographical poles. And all the time change their position. Therefore, the angle between the direction to the Geographic North Pole and the direction of the magnetic arrow changes.
2.There are no appreciable deposits of magnetic ores in the area of the pass, so the compass behaves there as it does in the rest of the region on average. There are magnetic iron deposits on Mt. Chistop (this is 40 km or 25 mi to the south-south-east) and there are many anomalous phenomena associated with magnetism and electricity. This is the closest place with strong magnetic anomaly.
3. We have checked the effects on the compass needle at this location three times, by Polaris and GPS marks. Now there stable eastern magnetic declination of 19.5 degrees for at least 12 years.

April 03, 2021, 11:11:40 AM
Reply #64
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Manti


Thank you WAB for this detailed and scientific answer, much appreciated!

April 04, 2021, 02:40:40 PM
Reply #65
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Collapsed snow  ! ? Collapsed from what ! ? It wasnt an area where Avalanches occured.

Collapsed or failed slab. Calculations in this report matching with DPI parameters shows that slab is only 4.95 m x 8.8 m. Not exactly avalanche as most of us imagine, but still enough snow to bury tent and cause injuries.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00081-8#MOESM3

Well the Searchers who found the Tent didnt mention any thing of Avalanche or other type of Snow Incident, they said that there was Snow on the Tent.

They were also college idiots that ripped into the tent and started the decimation process.
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 04, 2021, 02:45:44 PM
Reply #66
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Of course... its also obvious they never frantically slashed their way outta the tent either. 
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 04, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Reply #67
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Manti


I can't understand that part... what if the Dyatlov group was inside the tent, frozen dead? And the searchers risk crushing them with an ice ax? Just one more thing about this whole case that seems to make no sense...

April 04, 2021, 04:12:53 PM
Reply #68
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Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I can't understand that part... what if the Dyatlov group was inside the tent, frozen dead? And the searchers risk crushing them with an ice ax? Just one more thing about this whole case that seems to make no sense...


https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=205.0
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!

April 04, 2021, 05:16:10 PM
Reply #69
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Manti


Thank you, now it makes sense!

Is there a list somewhere of "common myths" about the case like this one about the cuts and tears in the tent that might very well be due to it being dragged 700m by the searchers?

I suspect much of the oft-repeated facts of the case aren't, in fact, facts..

April 06, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
Reply #70
Online

RMK


I suspect much of the oft-repeated facts of the case aren't, in fact, facts..
I share your suspicion.

Is there a list somewhere of "common myths" about the case like this one about the cuts and tears in the tent that might very well be due to it being dragged 700m by the searchers?
Not that I know of... Come to think of it, that could be a thread topic of its own.  I'll start one!

April 16, 2021, 07:32:11 AM
Reply #71
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Dona


Just where are the knives that did this to the tent?  How many would it take to  do all that damage? 3-4?  Where are they?  The "large knife" was left unused by the  bread.. and the only other knife that I know of was a pocket knife one of the guys in the woods had.. And how long would it take you to  do that with a single pocket knife..That tent is what, 10-12 feet long.  And, what are those tears on the top right? No one could try to escape out of those  cuts,  so high up and horizontal. But, where are the knives? This doesnt look like a panicked situation to me..I dont think they cut their way out  as believed they did.

The hikers didnt do this..





« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 08:05:33 AM by Dona »

April 16, 2021, 11:12:37 AM
Reply #72
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just where are the knives that did this to the tent?  How many would it take to  do all that damage? 3-4?  Where are they?  The "large knife" was left unused by the  bread.. and the only other knife that I know of was a pocket knife one of the guys in the woods had.. And how long would it take you to  do that with a single pocket knife..That tent is what, 10-12 feet long.  And, what are those tears on the top right? No one could try to escape out of those  cuts,  so high up and horizontal. But, where are the knives? This doesnt look like a panicked situation to me..I dont think they cut their way out  as believed they did.

The hikers didnt do this..

Its still a highly contentious issue about how the Cuts got made and by what and by whom. My first thoughts on reading of the Dyatlov Incident was that a Bear had attacked the Tent. But obviously as you get stuck into the matter it becomes less likely that that happened.





DB

April 16, 2021, 06:50:10 PM
Reply #73
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Dona


Just where are the knives that did this to the tent?  How many would it take to  do all that damage? 3-4?  Where are they?  The "large knife" was left unused by the  bread.. and the only other knife that I know of was a pocket knife one of the guys in the woods had.. And how long would it take you to  do that with a single pocket knife..That tent is what, 10-12 feet long.  And, what are those tears on the top right? No one could try to escape out of those  cuts,  so high up and horizontal. But, where are the knives? This doesnt look like a panicked situation to me..I dont think they cut their way out  as believed they did.

The hikers didnt do this..

Its still a highly contentious issue about how the Cuts got made and by what and by whom. My first thoughts on reading of the Dyatlov Incident was that a Bear had attacked the Tent. But obviously as you get stuck into the matter it becomes less likely that that happened.






 A moose ,maybe.. I wonder, do they have rabies  like diseases there??

April 16, 2021, 07:13:17 PM
Reply #74
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Dona


if someone else did this to the tent.. I would think they would have done it from the inside.. Because the tent , from the outside, would be leaning  away from them towards the peak. ..

April 17, 2021, 09:12:16 AM
Reply #75
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Manti


Look at the top left part of this photo.

This has modern editing / retouching artefacts. This is not a verbatim photo from 1959.

Has it been only "enhanced"? Or more? There are similar artefacts in the top middle part. And then the bottom right.


If you read the testimonies of the searchers, they describe one cut or tear. Whatever this is a photo of, might not even be the Dyatlov tent, it's also not one photo but several edited together in modern times (showing digital artefacts), several things were edited out of the photos (artefacts left by Photoshop "stamp tool" or similar, that is, duplicating an existing part of the photo and copying it repeatedly over another part, often to cover something). Even if the original photos showed the Dyatlov tent as it was examined... most of the damage was done after the tent was found.

April 17, 2021, 09:23:22 AM
Reply #76
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Manti




Some of the very obvious editing artefacts, also light is coming from different directions in different parts of the image...

April 17, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Reply #77
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Dona


I do see some of the anomalies.. But that doesnt mean its fraudulent.. But troublesome, yes..

I dont think the damage was from moving the tent tho. They would have had to drag it fully opened, to do that.

April 17, 2021, 05:12:32 PM
Reply #78
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just where are the knives that did this to the tent?  How many would it take to  do all that damage? 3-4?  Where are they?  The "large knife" was left unused by the  bread.. and the only other knife that I know of was a pocket knife one of the guys in the woods had.. And how long would it take you to  do that with a single pocket knife..That tent is what, 10-12 feet long.  And, what are those tears on the top right? No one could try to escape out of those  cuts,  so high up and horizontal. But, where are the knives? This doesnt look like a panicked situation to me..I dont think they cut their way out  as believed they did.

The hikers didnt do this..

Its still a highly contentious issue about how the Cuts got made and by what and by whom. My first thoughts on reading of the Dyatlov Incident was that a Bear had attacked the Tent. But obviously as you get stuck into the matter it becomes less likely that that happened.






 A moose ,maybe.. I wonder, do they have rabies  like diseases there??

A Moose  ! ?  Would make even more mess than a Bear, The Moose would stampede all over the place.
DB

April 17, 2021, 05:17:32 PM
Reply #79
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Dona


I was thinking the tears i the tent could be from something with antlers. Something that wouldn't be interested in the meat they had sitting out

April 17, 2021, 06:07:46 PM
Reply #80
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Manti


Not a bad idea but moose shed antlers before winter and start growing them again only in spring. Female moose have no antlers.


Male reindeer also shed antlers for the winter but females don't.. So maybe a female reindeer was too curious, peeked into the tent and got stuck?

It's more "friendly" compared to a moose so maybe wouldn't cause the group to abandon the tent altogether though..

April 17, 2021, 06:12:45 PM
Reply #81
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Dona


Ahh.. Thank you. I ddnt know that..  City girl here  okey1

April 18, 2021, 02:15:05 PM
Reply #82
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not a bad idea but moose shed antlers before winter and start growing them again only in spring. Female moose have no antlers.


Male reindeer also shed antlers for the winter but females don't.. So maybe a female reindeer was too curious, peeked into the tent and got stuck?

It's more "friendly" compared to a moose so maybe wouldn't cause the group to abandon the tent altogether though..

And didnt leave any traces whatsoever  !  ? 
DB

April 18, 2021, 02:51:46 PM
Reply #83
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Dona


He was politely correcting me.. Its called manners..

April 18, 2021, 04:44:52 PM
Reply #84
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jsmith


Most likely outcome, in my mind, is a slab hitting the tent (in accordance with the science in the Nature article). The group cutting into the slope unfortunately aided this. The entrance and the boots (which were kept to the left of the entrance) were covered with snow.

They escape the tent. It's terrifying and uncomfoetable. Now they're exposed to extreme wind and cold on the slope. It's dark and loud, some people have minor injuries.

They can't readily access their boots due to the snow covering one side of the tent and they determine that it is safer to leave to the forest for fire and shelter as opposed to trying to salvage the tent or dig out their supplies.  For starters it's too cold and windy to stay up on the slope and secondly they are worried about another impact.

From there, they leave and the rest is history. Hypothermia and being in the woods in the middle of horrendous weather accounts for the rest.

I think the serious injuries seen in the Ravine 4 were either due to a fall or the Ravine collapsing on them. Either way, the Ravine was directly tied to the injuries.

By the time the tent was discovered the snow that hit the tent has mostly blown away, however clumps are still there and that side of the tent is still buckled.

To me this theory is the most likely. 

April 18, 2021, 04:59:03 PM
Reply #85
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Dona


There was no snow event. Any snow event  theory is a modern day construct.. A fabrication made from whole cloth.  It never happened.  Sorry but,  this is true. No one at the Dyatlov Pass, at that time, ever mentions a snow event.  Period. And they would know

April 18, 2021, 05:07:10 PM
Reply #86
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jsmith


There was no snow event. Any snow event  theory is a modern day construct.. A fabrication made from whole cloth.  It never happened.  Sorry but,  this is true. No one at the Dyatlov Pass, at that time, ever mentions a snow event.  Period. And they would know

The tent was collapsed with large clumps of solid snow on top of it. The exit was collapsed, as was the area where the shoes were. The long period of time between the group dying and the tent being found ment the larger parts of the slide had eventually blown away. It wasn't an enormous amount of snow and it wasn't a conventional avalanche.

Rescuers immediately tampered with the tent and the area around the tent. Their testimony as to how they found the tent contradicts itself. Every different testimony of the individuals who found the tent is dramatically different to the other. Because of this, I trust modern science and physics more than their obviously shakey recollections - these rescuers made serious mistakes and by the time they realised this case required an actual investigation it was too late and crucial evidence had been tampered with or disappeared.

It is absolutely a possibility, even the recent Russian official investigation found it to be the most likely outcome.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 05:25:41 PM by jsmith »

April 18, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
Reply #87
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Dona


There was snow on the tent because it snowed..  Zena and Rustem were buried 10 inched deep..  The tent collapsed due to the weight of that snow. Again, NO ONE, at the time.. standing at the scene, on Feb. 27 1959 saw evidence of a snow event..

April 18, 2021, 06:08:14 PM
Reply #88
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Dona


Thats why the snow on the tent is crumbly .. not smooth..

April 18, 2021, 07:04:35 PM
Reply #89
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Manti


I don't even think we know what snow on the tent originally looked like. The photos are after the tent has been partially dug out. In my opinion, the very fact that the tent had to be "found" means it was mostly under snow. Smooth snow blending in with the surrounding snow. Otherwise it would have been visible from very far (if visibility is good... the photos show it was good.)