I wish to see more photos in general. This is the only photo we know of, not a single other photo. If they could develop this one there must be a film somewhere. Mark my words - this case is just starting. Malakhov called Borzenkov an secret agent just because this was his first appearance on TV about this case and he was trying to cool down the paranoia. Russians are insane about this case because they have to fill in bigger gaps. We have so many photos and diaries from Dyatlov group, and Chivruay case has only this photo. I don't think a negative of just one photo makes any difference. We need the whole film.No photos, no autopsies. Presumably the case is still closed, not public domain.
P.S. Just to be clear, all the rest of the photos you see are from other treks, not even the same people.
No photos, no autopsies. Presumably the case is still closed, not public domain.You should read my article. I am talking about the case files here https://dyatlovpass.com/chivruay-incident-5?lid=1&flp=1#classified (https://dyatlovpass.com/chivruay-incident-5?lid=1&flp=1#classified)
no autopsies
But why would they lie down on the tent with the windward man holding the end over him and not get in it? Or find sufficient shelter to erect it? It's more mysterious than just extreme cold (imo).
I think that they stopped where one of members wasn't able to go anymore, otherwise they could turn around and go with the wind back to the pass - The other 5 members was still able to walk so the wind in this moment wasn't that strong yet.
But no use of sleeping bags, no snow wall, even with some of the group clearly able bodied.
So basically it was bivy bag, so they use it in correct way. In high wind it is not possible to erect tent, the terrain around was flat, or almost vertical down. As well, as I written before, I think that they stopped where one of members wasn't able to go anymore, otherwise they could turn around and go with the wind back to the pass - The other 5 members was still able to walk so the wind in this moment wasn't that strong yet.
Where were the ones that could still walk going? That's the the only and main problem with this group. Borzenkov said they were looking for the way down. You don't go scouting in the dark, in the storm and without gloves. If one of the guys can't walk anymore all of the pitch a tent and sing songs till the storm is over.The problem is that when they stopped, it was too late to pitch the tent anywhere around, wind was too strong, but not too strong for walking yet. So the 5 was waiting (4 of them were 17 years old!!! - kids) while the 5 other just look around for descent, as you said, was dark and windy so you not scouting in group of 10 for descent. When the two groups was looking for descent the wind increased to the speed that make walking not possible, game was over. They not expected that the wind will be so strong. The leaders was young(24 and 23) so with not big experience with group management.
What we have in the KuAI group are open backpacks, sleeping bags and warm clothes scattered all over the plateau and 5 people walking around like zombies. It doesn't sound normal to me.
But no use of sleeping bags, no snow wall, even with some of the group clearly able bodied.When they stopped, they just wanted to wait for the scouters so nobody open backpack, take sleeping bags. When the scouters not returned and wind increased they wasn't able to do much - wind to strong(is really hard to do anything in wind over 100km/h but there was wind much stronger) and they all suffer from hypothermia already, even if they open backpack to take some extra clothes or sleeping bag it could be blown out.
Do we know where were backpack from the 5 that went scouting? did they find them at the tent? or somewhere else?
From memory one of the men gave some of his clothing to a female member. But no use of sleeping bags, lying on the tent rather than lying inside. No snow wall etc. It is weird.You can refresh your memory from here https://dyatlovpass.com/chivruay-incident-5?lid=1&flp=1#undressing
Is hard to blame any of the leaders for what happened there, they die because it was something as "perfect storm". Something similar to tragedy on Everest in 1996 or Peak Lenina in 1974 (nice article, worth of reading: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/01/sport/russian-climbers-peak-lenin-spt-intl/ )
I think that it not happens suddenly.
I could understand that they didnt want go back to Chivruay Valley so after climbing on Chivruay Pass they keep going as long as they could, they do not allow the option(critical mistake as we know today) that the wind will be too strong for continuing the hike on the plateau.
When they find out it is not possible go further they still try to find out other way down instead all returning to Chivruay Valley(another critical mistake),
after splitting it was matter of minutes they all get lots and were not able to return because of wind.
In 1996 on Everest
and on Peak Lenina in 1974 they made the same mistake: Not take into account the fact that the weather will be very bad, just keeping false hope that will be not that bad as long as it was too bad and too late to do anything.
And on Everest and on Peak Lenina the climbers were much more experienced than on Chivruay Pass.
Miscalculation. The most common cause of accidents in the mountains.
The group of 12 surveyors that want to measure Everest plan to summit on Friday, probably on Thursday some of guides could summit already or at last fix the route close to summit. Generally it mean that they must be already very high on the mountain, to make summit push on Friday, all must be in the last camp at 8300 on Thursday. If it will be hit by very bad weather it could be not so good there :/
It is difficult consider it as error. At them was only two real variants of a way: or in a valley of Kitkuai, or in a valley of Kuftuai. In Chivuruaj and on lake Seid they did not want to go down, because they again would break control term to Kirovsk.
It is difficult consider it as error. At them was only two real variants of a way: or in a valley of Kitkuai, or in a valley of Kuftuai. In Chivuruaj and on lake Seid they did not want to go down, because they again would break control term to Kirovsk.=======================================
The fact that they not consider any other variant/possibility because they would break control term to Kirovsk was mistake that cost them the highest price. Going back to Chivruay Valley was the only chance to survive that weather.
This is why I compare this to tragedies on Everest in 1996* and Pik Lenin - in all this cases they following the plan that was made days before, did not allow the option that the weather could be very bad and simply keep going till was too late.
* on Everest in 1996 two commercial expeditions and other climbers start summit push and keep going to the summit despite the fact that they received info about blizzard coming shortly, they even see the clouds but keep hope that they will be able to made it to the summit and back to camp IV. 8 people died on that day/night. Is a lot of books and movies about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster
Happy Everest 2020!!!
https://explorersweb.com/2020/05/26/everest-summits/
I am very interested what is the new height of Everest :)
I am very interested what is the new height of Everest :)
I bet it is going to be less than 8,848 m.
I am very interested what is the new height of Everest :)
I bet it is going to be less than 8,848 m.
Or more low...? :)))))
I am very interested what is the new height of Everest :)
I bet it is going to be less than 8,848 m.
Or more low...? :)))))
You are on Vlad! The most recent official Chinese survey in 2005 measured the peak at 8,844.43 metres, not including the snow and icepack on the summit, while Nepal’s official figure includes the Everest’s frosty crown and is four metres higher.
So it is basically 8,844 without the snow cap, but I say that the new measurements will be 8,843 m. Anybody else?
But I don't know how they will take into account the thickness of snow, because they can only install the instrument on its surface.For sure they measured how big/deep is the snow cap this season so will know how many meters over the rocks all the instruments are installed.
But I don't know how they will take into account the thickness of snow, because they can only install the instrument on its surface.For sure they measured how big/deep is the snow cap this season so will know how many meters over the rocks all the instruments are installed.
Is easy to check snow deep with Ultrasonic (US)* Snow Depth Sensor.
Does anybody know if there is an official way of measuring mountains that most countries use?
I was not able to find the quotation about "Traditional trigonometric readings" in both sources, but if that would be true, obviously the surveyors took every possible approach to secure the perfect measurement, possible nowadays.Sorry, I forgot to put link to it. This info was from some earlier article ExplorersWeb
Does anybody know if there is an official way of measuring mountains that most countries use?
Teddy asked me for a comment on this, so here it is.
........................................
any measurement given without its error is a pure rubbish.
PS. For PJ : what looks more like G5 antenna in the picture? but is not receiver of navigation system. It uses non-directional antennas.on this photo, the satellite navigation receiver is at the top- you could see white small disc, the other things(colorful lenses) are for optical measurements from below I guess(but I am not expert in this things, probably Dilov could say more about it what is on this photo)
PS. For PJ : what looks more like G5 antenna in the picture? but is not receiver of navigation system. It uses non-directional antennas.on this photo, the satellite navigation receiver is at the top- you could see white small disc, the other things(colorful lenses) are for optical measurements from below I guess(but I am not expert in this things, probably Dilov could say more about it what is on this photo)
(https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/reflector-summit-768x1024.jpeg)
the 5G antennas are big, here is photo from the Everest BC:
(https://explorersweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/chinese-antenna.jpg)
https://explorersweb.com/2020/04/22/chinese-install-5g-and-live-webcam-coverage-on-everest/
I am wondering what power supply they have for the 5G antennas they need quite a lot of power to operate. I think solar panels could be not enough so maybe some radioactive batteries dunno1
Qoute: "Still, I'm curious about what the Chinese are going achieve" WAB
I think since our President has admonished the Chinese and banned Huawei, the Chinese are using a show of force to illustrate that they can put 5G on top of the world. I have read many times that the actual top of Mount Everest is the size of a truck, so these photos are interesting.
The President also condemns the Chinese for building small military islands in their own front yard, perhaps the Chinese are showing the U.S. and everyone else exactly where their backyard is, even if this subject is politically incorrect. Or maybe the Chinese are mad because our President blamed them for a virus that has its origins from Mrs. Gates lovely alma mater at Chapel Hill and the lovely Canadian town of Winnipeg. IMHO