Theories Discussion > Avalanche

What about this theory?

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Kopyrda:


It's somewhat (I guess) similar to ice sled theory, only without an ice sled grin1
I don't know Russian, but I'm able to understand some of the things author was saying (I'm also a Slav). As far as I understand him, he thinks that the snow blown from the top of the mountain was gathering on the canvas of the tent. After some time, snow had become so heavy, that the ski pole (?) inside of the tent, that was supporting it broke, and canvas fell on the tourists. Damage some of them sustained came from the objects they were sleeping with. Zolotaryov had a camera laying on his chest, Dubinina roll of the film. Tibo was sleeping with his canteen under his head and it was supposed to be the source of his wound.

Personally, I find some issues with this theory. I rather don't believe that tourists sustained their wounds in the tent. Dubinina's wound was so heavy, that she probably wouldn't make it to the forest. Although I've read somewhere, that she could got her heart pierced later, by one her broken ribs, while she was putting on additional sweater.
Also, would the snow gathered on canvas be heavy enough to cause such damage to tourists? Also sounds doubtful. What are your thoughts?

WAB:

--- Quote from: Kopyrda on December 11, 2018, 08:23:49 AM ---

It's somewhat (I guess) similar to ice sled theory, only without an ice sled grin1
I don't know Russian, but I'm able to understand some of the things author was saying (I'm also a Slav).
--- End quote ---

Esteemed Kopyrda!
Let's make small analysis of this video, leaning not against fictions of the person which lives in Germany, but only that exists actually on a place of these events. Therefore to understand words it is action means very little, it is necessary to understand those thoughts which are sounded by the author. To me in this situation to estimate it because I investigated all these possibilities directly on a place much easier and was engaged in applied biomechanics for possibility of an estimation of traumas which were received by victims.



--- Quote from: Kopyrda on December 11, 2018, 08:23:49 AM --- As far as I understand him, he thinks that the snow blown from the top of the mountain was gathering on the canvas of the tent. After some time, snow had become so heavy, that the ski pole (?) inside of the tent, that was supporting it broke, and canvas fell on the tourists. Damage some of them sustained came from the objects they were sleeping with. Zolotaryov had a camera laying on his chest, Dubinina roll of the film. Tibo was sleeping with his canteen under his head and it was supposed to be the source of his wound.
--- End quote ---

Yes. It is that is a basis for the theory of this author. But it does not correspond to that is on a place and to that that turns out as a result of such "collapse".
1.On that place where there was a tent basically there is no such quantity of snow that it could collect and bring down tent with such consequences.
2.When on tent snow the tent roof sags so accumulates that it should be noticed. Thus on tent top still it is not enough snow. Therefore at once there is a question: Why participants of travel have not found out this (very big) sagging and have not shaken snow? So always do on similar travel. From here I will strike the conclusion follows: or the author of it did not know, because never participated in such travel, or he specially neglects it what is false to advance the theory.
3.The Ski stick as a tent prop in that case or pierces a fabric and remains whole, or loses stability (that is full fantasy because loading should be improbably big) and is split on wood fibres lengthways. But does not break in any way “with  cut”. Snow which is loading "is not able" to make an incision a stick.  grin1
4.Traumas which have been received in any way do not correlate with subjects about which there is a speech. All these subjects at very big loading give local (comparable to their sizes) damages. That it is not written in the medical description. It is necessary to note. That here there is a sharp distinction of an initial wound of Tibo and possibility to receive such wound from a flask. In the medical description it is written that (the initial!) The wound has the sizes of 3 cm Х 3,5 (or 8,5 - in the document it is indistinctly read, but it is not important) cm Х 2 (it is depth of penetration) see therefore such wound it is possible to receive only very firm subject with the sizes about 2. 5 cm Х 3 (or 8) see It reminds a punch. Next sizes 9х7 см is a secondary fragmental breach which has appeared because of presence primary. From here it is possible to draw a conclusion: the subject which was a trauma source had the conic form. The sizes of the flask resulted in video do not correspond to these conditions the flask Shown on video the form with axes of an ellipse 20 Х 12 Х 6 cm has oval It see smooth and is made of soft aluminium. Hardness of this aluminium is comparable (and probably and less than at a bone) to hardness of bones of a skull. For getting wound at least on an order (in 10 times) more than hardness is required from a bone.
5.As far as I know, on such travel do not go balmy on firm subjects. It very inconveniently also prevents to sleep, because the head all time rolls down downwards. For this purpose, what to put a place under a head at each traveller there are many other subjects. For example it is possible to extend a sleeve of the wadded jacket, which participants of Dyatlov group stacked downwards under a body.


--- Quote from: Kopyrda on December 11, 2018, 08:23:49 AM ---Personally, I find some issues with this theory. I rather don't believe that tourists sustained their wounds in the tent. Dubinina's wound was so heavy, that she probably wouldn't make it to the forest. Although I've read somewhere, that she could got her heart pierced later, by one her broken ribs, while she was putting on additional sweater.
--- End quote ---

These doubts are very proved. The trauma at Lyudmila Dubinina is that that she even could breathe only with great difficulty. The thorax is as though a skeleton for this purpose that lungs could extend and be compressed. If it to destroy to breathe begins or it is very difficult and painful, or it is absolutely impossible. At it was so-called floating or “as widow” crisis (reminding a window, that is free and opened). At it all have been broken almost edges from both parties of body. In its such condition it was dangerous even to transfer. Therefore the remark apropos penetration into heart is connected with its movement, but it is possible only on very small distance. Otherwise it could be broken in general half-and-half. Independently do any movements it could not in such condition.


--- Quote from: Kopyrda on December 11, 2018, 08:23:49 AM ---Also, would the snow gathered on canvas be heavy enough to cause such damage to tourists? Also sounds doubtful. What are your thoughts?

--- End quote ---

About it I already have written above.

*****************************

I already wrote for all who is interested about traumas: I have article (in Russian) about traumas and everything that with them is connected.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ey2F7ROB6ZXNJkp49tKPJE24iPP0nKRG/view?usp=sharing 

If you can read that in Russian look at it. It will be better make it with dictionary. If there will be that that not clearly please write or here, or not an e-mail which is in requisites nickname in forum.

Kopyrda:
Thanks for the answer! I also found it doubtful that someone would use canteen, a hard piece of metal, as a "pillow" -  instead of something more comfortable, like folded clothes or a blanket.
I'll try to go through the document you linked to with the help of google translator.

Monika:

--- Quote from: Kopyrda on December 11, 2018, 08:23:49 AM ---

It's somewhat (I guess) similar to ice sled theory, only without an ice sled grin1
I don't know Russian, but I'm able to understand some of the things author was saying (I'm also a Slav). As far as I understand him, he thinks that the snow blown from the top of the mountain was gathering on the canvas of the tent. After some time, snow had become so heavy, that the ski pole (?) inside of the tent, that was supporting it broke, and canvas fell on the tourists. Damage some of them sustained came from the objects they were sleeping with. Zolotaryov had a camera laying on his chest, Dubinina roll of the film. Tibo was sleeping with his canteen under his head and it was supposed to be the source of his wound.

Personally, I find some issues with this theory. I rather don't believe that tourists sustained their wounds in the tent. Dubinina's wound was so heavy, that she probably wouldn't make it to the forest. Although I've read somewhere, that she could got her heart pierced later, by one her broken ribs, while she was putting on additional sweater.
Also, would the snow gathered on canvas be heavy enough to cause such damage to tourists? Also sounds doubtful. What are your thoughts?

--- End quote ---

I also think that the injuries of Dubinia and Zolotarev were such serious that they would certainly not have gone so far and in such high snow. They were injured either under the tree or more likely at the den.

Kopyrda:

--- Quote from: WAB on December 12, 2018, 09:04:38 PM ---
I already wrote for all who is interested about traumas: I have article (in Russian) about traumas and everything that with them is connected.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ey2F7ROB6ZXNJkp49tKPJE24iPP0nKRG/view?usp=sharing 

--- End quote ---

I read this article with the help of translator. Still, a pity it's not in English, I would understand it better. It's really a shame, that so many sources on the case are only in Russian.
One thing - the article seems to imply that Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov died on the way towards the forest, not while trying to return to the tent ("тезис о возвращении к палатке от кедра выглядит совершенно нереально"). I thought that all of those three were found with their heads towards the tent, as info on this site states.
https://dyatlovpass.com/death
For example, "Zinaida was found 630 m from the cedar, face down, head towards the tent." Someone noticed, that the position she was in implied that she had fallen for the last time while climbing.

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