Theories Discussion > Avalanche
What if a snow glide happened in the ravine?
Squatch:
--- Quote from: RMK on April 03, 2021, 08:55:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Squatch on April 02, 2021, 07:17:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: sug2h on February 07, 2019, 12:00:15 PM ---Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?
--- End quote ---
I agree with everything you have said.
The avalanche did not happen at the tent in my opinion. It happened in the ravine. The huge amount of snow above the "den" area and over the bodies seems to indicate massive movement of snow -- enough to cause injury and death.
I would further speculate that Rustem Slobodin barely escaped this with a skull fracture and Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova escaped relatively unscathed. I think the three of them made for the tent after the ravine avalanche as a last resort. This would explain why the group appeared to "split up" after the cedar tree... because in reality they didn't! They were all together until the ravine disaster and the three survivors then made for the tent.
--- End quote ---
In this scenario you describe, what happened to the two Yuris? Would they already be dead by the time the avalanche happened in the ravine?
--- End quote ---
Yes, in my scenario they died at the camp fire at the tree line. It's believable because some of their clothes were found on the others and their bodies were found near the fire in any case.
KFinn:
--- Quote from: Squatch on April 08, 2021, 03:01:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: RMK on April 03, 2021, 08:55:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Squatch on April 02, 2021, 07:17:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: sug2h on February 07, 2019, 12:00:15 PM ---Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?
--- End quote ---
I agree with everything you have said.
The avalanche did not happen at the tent in my opinion. It happened in the ravine. The huge amount of snow above the "den" area and over the bodies seems to indicate massive movement of snow -- enough to cause injury and death.
I would further speculate that Rustem Slobodin barely escaped this with a skull fracture and Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova escaped relatively unscathed. I think the three of them made for the tent after the ravine avalanche as a last resort. This would explain why the group appeared to "split up" after the cedar tree... because in reality they didn't! They were all together until the ravine disaster and the three survivors then made for the tent.
--- End quote ---
In this scenario you describe, what happened to the two Yuris? Would they already be dead by the time the avalanche happened in the ravine?
--- End quote ---
Yes, in my scenario they died at the camp fire at the tree line. It's believable because some of their clothes were found on the others and their bodies were found near the fire in any case.
--- End quote ---
I agree. There does seem to be some evidence medically to suggest this. Doroshenko's livor mortis was fixed on his back sides, which means that when his clothes were cut off and he was turned over onto his front, he had been deceased for, at minimum, 6 hours (livor mortis develops slightly more slowly in freezing temperatures so it could very well be more than 6 hours.) In my opinion, whatever killed the ravine 4, since they were the group wearing articles of clothing belonging to to Doroshenko and Krivonischenko, would have had to occur quite some time after the Yuris passed. With the extent of the injuries on those in the ravine and the depth of snow there, I'd say a slab avalanche is quite plausible.
Squatch:
--- Quote from: KFinn on April 08, 2021, 03:34:30 PM ---I agree. There does seem to be some evidence medically to suggest this. Doroshenko's livor mortis was fixed on his back sides, which means that when his clothes were cut off and he was turned over onto his front, he had been deceased for, at minimum, 6 hours (livor mortis develops slightly more slowly in freezing temperatures so it could very well be more than 6 hours.) In my opinion, whatever killed the ravine 4, since they were the group wearing articles of clothing belonging to to Doroshenko and Krivonischenko, would have had to occur quite some time after the Yuris passed. With the extent of the injuries on those in the ravine and the depth of snow there, I'd say a slab avalanche is quite plausible.
--- End quote ---
The picture of the "Den" is quite astonishing. There is an unbelievable amount of snow piled up on that thing. If an avalanche didn't cause all that snow to be above the Den then I don't know what would have put it all there.
In my home town, we have a measurement called a "Butt Ton". It means there is not just a ton of something there, there is a "Butt Ton". As in huge. A lot. Ginormous.
There is a Butt Ton of snow above that "Den". An avalanche kind of Butt Ton.
Paf:
--- Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 07, 2019, 03:56:51 PM ---This is of course, if you believe that snow always falls and accumulates evenly and wind never creates things such as snow-drifts or snow-banks. How do you know just how high/deep the west bank of the ravine was on Feb 2nd 1959?
Askinadzi and Suvorov on the slope of Otorten - photo archive Vladimir Askinadzi
--- End quote ---
Do we know where was this photo taken, facing which way, etc ? It doesn't seems to be on the same slop than the tent/den/cedar.
I don't really believe in avanlanche-sustained injuries. Fall of a big slab, maybe, but there was no such thing at the ravine (to many trees for the wind to built it up big enough for the injuries we're talking about).
Manti:
As far as I know that photo was taken on Otorten, a different mountain peak that the Dyatlov group never reached.
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