Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Per Inge Oestmoen on January 14, 2023, 01:15:06 PM
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It is time for all to realize that the Dyatlov Pass tragedy was the result of murder. We should stop conjuring up improbable and impossible theories about UFO's, internal strife, evil snowmen, wolverines, infrasound, falling trees, avalanches and snow slabs. None of these fantasy stories are consistent with the injuries sustained by the victims.
A knowledgeable person who knows about close combat fighting quickly recognizes that these unfortunates were killed by other humans who were trained killers. Since I have studied Jiu Jitsu, in several cases I could tell what techniques were likely used to take the lives of the students.
Please read this:
"(2) The fakes don't really do anything for me because I know that all the free software e.g. Forensically that the sites (this book included) cite are for digital photography. Bobrikov says that the negatives are manipulated but he proves it with software that tracks changes on a digital image. Once scanned, whatever is done with the negative will not show as a defect. So I don't pay attention to "the fakes". I also tried to reproduce the results from the book and it turns out Bobrikov first did things in Photoshop to enhance the contours whatever to make his point, but in any rate I will not engage in discussing fakes. Askinadzi: "There are many sites using other methods and programs that speak of mass falsification of both photos and diaries, etc. Dyatlov researchers have been exposing falsifications of documents for a long time. After all, the fact that Dyatlov reached the northern side of Otorten was known (or guessed!) by Maslennikov (his son-in-law speaks about it), Tempalov, Ortyukov, Cheglakov (*). And those are just the ones I know of. They knew about the existence of a military training ground on the northern side of Otorten."
- The above seems to be a probable explanation.
The nine students, albeit perfectly loyal Soviet citizens, had to be killed preventively in order to ensure their silence forever. The state authorities could not take the risk: Sooner or later the nine could tell a spouse, child or friend what they had observed.
Thus the nine students became a threat to state security, and must be eliminated.
There was no avalanche, and there was no snow slab, no accidents. Only Igor Dyatlov can reasonably be assumed to have died by hypothermia, and marks on his body gave hints that he had been handcuffed.
It was professional killing by special forces operators. Every single injury among the nine is consistent with human attack - and human attack only.
The frighteningly intelligent way it was orchestrated, with the aim to make it look like an unfortunate accident, could best be described as bearing the stamp of the mercilessly brilliant KGB - which in its heyday was probably the most sophisticated intelligence agency known to Man.
The aim of this site should be to try to find solid evidence of who killed the nine students.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/bobrikov-askinadzi?lid=1)
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A knowledgeable person who knows about close combat fighting quickly recognizes that these unfortunates were killed by other humans who were trained killers. Since I have studied Jiu Jitsu, in several cases I could tell what techniques were likely used to take the lives of the students.
I am not knowledgeable in close combat fighting . Please tell us what techniques were likely used ?
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I'll second that, I also would like to know those techniques.
Plus:
I've read that quote (2) before. I'm still not quite sure, if I really understood correctly.
Let me try to reword it:
(I) There are people who state that photos and documents from back than are false by using software that proves falsification of digital photos but not analog falsification.
(II) Maslennikov and others knew or suspected the group reached the northern side of the Otorten. That has been said by many of them.
(III) On the northern side of the Otorten was a military training ground, which said people knew of.
If I got this right, then let me ask a few questions:
(II)-a Where do we know that from? Can you point out the sources?
(II)-b Why were no traces found further on the planned route towards Otorten or even on the Otorten? Where they all erased by whoever is supposed to have murdered the group?
(III)-a Was there indeed a training ground? Has anyone a source for that statement?
(III)-b Why was the area around Otorten a common hiking area, if there was a training ground no one should have come near?
(III)-c Was is only that time when the Dyatlov-group was around, that something sinister was about to happen in that area? Then why were they allowed to go?
Those are things, that don't fit the bill for me.
(Concerning part (I) there's nothing to say, people will be people...)
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You simply do not leave corpses with incriminating physical evidence at the scene of the crime. If the rand plan is to make it look like the hikers died by natural,causes, you do not bludgeon, crush, bind and otherwise identify your misdeeds by leaving incriminating evidence on the remains. Finally, I think the Russian military would draw the line at a sadistic senseless slaughter. Bullets do the job quicker.
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A knowledgeable person who knows about close combat fighting quickly recognizes that these unfortunates were killed by other humans who were trained killers. Since I have studied Jiu Jitsu, in several cases I could tell what techniques were likely used to take the lives of the students.
Rustem's pose
(https://i.ibb.co/s27vw8n/429775-6-i-040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NsR6jc5)
screenshot of combat fighting technics used by Soviet special forces
(https://i.ibb.co/HnFbtN6/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D5Vv9Gh)
I did not find a better explanation for the position of Rustem's hand + head injury. If you see this video, you will find other moments that explain the injuries. The author of this system (he is in a blue suit) began his service in the GRU in 1959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od17dbRQqeo
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od17dbRQqeo
Уже многократно доказано, что система Кадочникова не работает. Это не более чем показуха на городских праздниках. Вы бы хоть комменты под этим роликом почитали. Я знаю о чём говорю. Уж поверьте.
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Since I have studied Jiu Jitsu, in several cases I could tell what techniques were likely used to take the lives of the students.
So say. Only in every detail. Tell who and how they killed. Feel free to use sports professional terms. I'll deal. And then it seems that another swindler has appeared in the subject
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od17dbRQqeo
Уже многократно доказано, что система Кадочникова не работает. Это не более чем показуха на городских праздниках. Вы бы хоть комменты под этим роликом почитали. Я знаю о чём говорю. Уж поверьте.
what exactly doesn't work? Painful hold? Blow to the head?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od17dbRQqeo
Уже многократно доказано, что система Кадочникова не работает. Это не более чем показуха на городских праздниках. Вы бы хоть комменты под этим роликом почитали. Я знаю о чём говорю. Уж поверьте.
what exactly doesn't work? Painful hold? Blow to the head?
Это постановочное шоу, где противник сам подставляется и падает туда, куда предписывает сценарий.
Против ножа не существует техник. Никаких. Какой бы не был суперподготовленный боец с супер техниками кгб, мвд, гру, цру и т.д., в 90 процентах он труп. При условии, что с ножом не рёбёнок или женщина. Вы ведётесь на коммерциализацию в спортивных единоборствах. Там одни аферисты, к сожалению
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looks like you don't understand what I'm trying to say. The posture of Rustem's hand is most similar to holding a painful hold. Bilateral hematomas in the temporal muscles + a linear fracture are most similar to a blow to the head of a lying person. Have you seen the word "knife" somewhere in my messages?
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Rustem's pose
Что бы быть точно уверенным, что такую позу невозможно занять двигаясь без сил по снегу и ветру - надо пройтись в отсутствии сил в таких условиях. Понятное дело, что во Вьетнаме - это более чем невозможно. Приезжайте к нам в Кузбасс. У нас как раз самая такая погода. Просто погуляете по городским улицам и будет достаточно для выветривания всяких рукопашников из мыслей...
In order to be sure that such a position cannot be taken while moving without strength in the snow and wind, one must walk in the absence of strength in such conditions. It is clear that in Vietnam this is more than impossible. Come to us in Kuzbass. We have just the right kind of weather. Just take a walk along the city streets and it will be enough to weather any hand-to-hand combatants from your thoughts ...
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looks like you don't understand what I'm trying to say. The posture of Rustem's hand is most similar to holding a painful hold. Bilateral hematomas in the temporal muscles + a linear fracture are most similar to a blow to the head of a lying person. Have you seen the word "knife" somewhere in my messages?
Этот захват для удержания человека в лежачем положении. И что? Что дальше то? От этого захвата не умирают. Вы расскажите предполагаемый сценарий убийства, при котором рука так и осталась в том же положении, когда и была на болевом ?
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Rustem's pose
Что бы быть точно уверенным, что такую позу невозможно занять двигаясь без сил по снегу и ветру - надо пройтись в отсутствии сил в таких условиях. Понятное дело, что во Вьетнаме - это более чем невозможно. Приезжайте к нам в Кузбасс. У нас как раз самая такая погода. Просто погуляете по городским улицам и будет достаточно для выветривания всяких рукопашников из мыслей...
In order to be sure that such a position cannot be taken while moving without strength in the snow and wind, one must walk in the absence of strength in such conditions. It is clear that in Vietnam this is more than impossible. Come to us in Kuzbass. We have just the right kind of weather. Just take a walk along the city streets and it will be enough to weather any hand-to-hand combatants from your thoughts ...
Когда замерзающий человек переворачивается на бок, рука как раз попадает в это положение, завёрнутое за спину
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looks like you don't understand what I'm trying to say. The posture of Rustem's hand is most similar to holding a painful hold. Bilateral hematomas in the temporal muscles + a linear fracture are most similar to a blow to the head of a lying person. Have you seen the word "knife" somewhere in my messages?
Смотрите картину в целом. Именно так сломать рёбра не сможет ни один специалист. Я в этом разбираюсь. Много раз ломал рёбра, и мне ломали. Но, именно так невозможно.
Те кто замёрз. Можно предположить, что их удушили воротом одежды или косым захватом. На это требуется полторы минуты на каждого. Но, невозможно скрыть следы асфиксии. Следствие в любом случае установит, что они умерли от удушения.
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We should remember that many researchers have concluded that the DP group did not die in the location where their bodies were found. Askinadzi is publishing his book (finally) that says there was a military training ground north of Otorten; the group reached the north side and encountered them. Something happened and they were killed. Their bodies and the tent were moved away, so as not to shed suspicion on those who had killed them. There were dragging marks alongside the bodies of Doroschenko and Krivonischenko at the Cedar, and -- something we have not really talked about on this forum -- Yuri Yuden was distressed and confused by the fact that the bodies of these two had perfectly clean, undamaged feet. He wrote, how can this be?
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Askinadzi is publishing his book (finally) that says there was a military training ground north of Otorten; the group reached the north side and encountered them.
Это откуда Вы такие новости - вычитали? В.М.Аскинадзи никаких книг не пишет. Он - категорически не писатель, а критик. Согрин С.Н. - пишет. На его счету - их уже не одна.
У меня впечатление, что неточности перевода - как очень испорченный телефон дают в руки ангажированных своими представлениями исследователей: очень топкий и неверный материал...
Where did you read such news from? V.M. Askinadzi does not write any books. He is categorically not a writer, but a critic. Sogrin S.N. - writes. On his account - they are no longer alone.
I have the impression that the inaccuracies of the translation are like a very damaged telephone put into the hands of researchers biased by their ideas: very slick and incorrect material ...
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.0
You ask where? Teddy's post right here in this forum, referenced above.
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.0
You ask where? Teddy's post right here in this forum, referenced above.
Эту книгу написал не Аскинадзи. Он дал на неё рецензию. Т.Е. критическую статью. Критика равнялась выводу - "ничё так, оригинальненько."
Вы хоть книгу-то откройте. Ведь есть ссылка. И там вписан реальный автор. Сам В.М.Аскмнадзи вряд ли бы накатал такой редкостный бред. Он еще в своем уме.
This book was not written by Askinadzi. He gave her a review. THOSE. critical article. Criticism was equal to conclusion - "nothing like that, original." V. M. Askmnadzi himself would hardly have dashed off such a rare nonsense. He is still in his mind.
At least open a book. After all, there is a link. And the real author is inscribed there.
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The most likely explanation is neither natural forces nor humans. The most likely explanation is "Unknown coercive force." How long will it take to understand this, or how long will we discuss it? The purpose of this forum should be to find out what kind of power unknown power is. We have to put aside empty invalid thoughts.
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The most likely explanation is neither natural forces nor humans. The most likely explanation is "Unknown coercive force." How long will it take to understand this, or how long will we discuss it? The purpose of this forum should be to find out what kind of power unknown power is. We have to put aside empty invalid thoughts.
Пока Вы не выучитесь на блестящего гипнотизера - форум будет смотреть в разные стороны и искать разные решения...
Until you learn to be a brilliant hypnotist, the forum will look in different directions and look for different solutions...
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Teddy: "The book "PASS without DYATLOV'' has a very exploratory comparison of witness testimonies and fact discrepancies, it points out errors and omissions that one could usually attribute to the time that has passed. In any case it is a book that Askinadzi stands by and will introduce to this year's annual conference. Here is a chance for a sneak peek. I will continue adding to the post as I find more information referenced in the book or by Askinadzi (*). "
I am sure that no one on this forum will dismiss or criticize the book before having read it.
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Teddy: "The book "PASS without DYATLOV'' has a very exploratory comparison of witness testimonies and fact discrepancies, it points out errors and omissions that one could usually attribute to the time that has passed. In any case it is a book that Askinadzi stands by and will introduce to this year's annual conference. Here is a chance for a sneak peek. I will continue adding to the post as I find more information referenced in the book or by Askinadzi (*). "
I am sure that no one on this forum will dismiss or criticize the book before having read it.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.0
(https://i.ibb.co/fqMWznh/image.png)
Да уж... Многообещающе, если помнить как хорошо читается русский. Тем не менее - я читаю по русски. Мало того, содержание книги собрало в себя много такого, что опубликовано в России - уже десять лет назад. Ну то есть очень старые и давно уложенные в мусорную корзину мысли.
Аскинадзи надо думать через рекламу этой книги - совершает диверсию против исследователей. И в первую очередь - против нероссийских исследователей. Российские в книге нового - ничего не вычитают. На конференции - это будет натуральный цирк, если книгу начнут разбирать в части правдивости содержания.
Yeah ... Promising, if you remember how well Russian is read. However, I read Russian. Moreover, the content of the book has collected a lot of things that were published in Russia - already ten years ago. Well, that is, very old and long ago thoughts laid in the wastebasket.
Askinadzi must be thought through the advertising of this book - he is committing sabotage against researchers. And first of all - against non-Russian researchers. Russian in the book of the new - do not subtract anything. At the conference, it will be a natural circus if the book begins to be dismantled in terms of the veracity of the content.
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You sound bitter. I'm sorry you feel this way.
But you could be very helpful to those of us who don't read Russian. You could explain to us what has been published, discovered, and discussed on the Russian forums. This would be very intriguing. Thank you.
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You sound bitter. I'm sorry you feel this way.
But you could be very helpful to those of us who don't read Russian. You could explain to us what has been published, discovered, and discussed on the Russian forums. This would be very intriguing. Thank you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDcg3oZKlnk
Чтобы пересказать все что написано за 10 прошедших лет - нужно как минимум год...
To retell everything that has been written over the past 10 years - you need at least a year ...
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The most likely explanation is neither natural forces nor humans. The most likely explanation is "Unknown coercive force." How long will it take to understand this, or how long will we discuss it? The purpose of this forum should be to find out what kind of power unknown power is. We have to put aside empty invalid thoughts.
Пока Вы не выучитесь на блестящего гипнотизера - форум будет смотреть в разные стороны и искать разные решения...
Until you learn to be a brilliant hypnotist, the forum will look in different directions and look for different solutions...
Я никогда не понимал, что ты говоришь. Но одно можно сказать наверняка, их что-то убило, и это был не человек. На самом деле, это очень ясно.
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The main issue I have with the murder theory is that it completely lacks a motive.
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Я никогда не понимал, что ты говоришь. Но одно можно сказать наверняка, их что-то убило, и это был не человек. На самом деле, это очень ясно.
Жестокая северная зима и неверная оценка своих возможностей. И в какой-то мере - альтруизм.
A cruel northern winter and a misjudgment of one's capabilities. And to some extent - altruism.
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The main issue I have with the murder theory is that it completely lacks a motive.
The murder theory lacks not only a motive, but also traces of the murder on the bodies; traces of strangulation, gunshot wounds, stab wounds with cold weapons, etc. There is also no ski trail of the killers, who had to come through the deep snow of the forest zone, then leave.
В теории убийства отсутствует не только мотив, но и следы убийства на телах; следы удушения, огнестрельных ранений, колото-резаных ран холодным оружием и т.д. Так-же отсутствует лыжный след убийц, которым нужно было по глубокому снегу лесной зоны прийти, потом уйти.
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You simply do not leave corpses with incriminating physical evidence at the scene of the crime. If the rand plan is to make it look like the hikers died by natural,causes, you do not bludgeon, crush, bind and otherwise identify your misdeeds by leaving incriminating evidence on the remains. Finally, I think the Russian military would draw the line at a sadistic senseless slaughter. Bullets do the job quicker.
1. There was no senseless slaughter involved. The nine victims were chased out from the tent, that would have happened at gunpoint. The attackers first made sure that their victims were improperly dressed. Their plan was to let the cold to the dirty job of killing.
Now, there was a sudden rise in temperature during the fateful evening - to around -15C. So the nine students did not die from exposure as planned; they exchanged clothes and tried desperately to survive. Therefore, the killing squad had to hunt them down and expedite the outcome. The four hikers who had a little more clothes than the others also had the most serious injuries; which was also consistent with these ones being those who were less affected by the cold and resisted more than the others. If this unexpected rise in temperature had not taken place, the nine students would have quickly frozen to death - and there would have been no telling injuries. The rise in temperature spoiled the plot, but only partially - some people do not want to understand that this was a very cleverly, mercilessly intelligent operation designed to silence nine human beings and make it look like an accident. The Soviet (and Russian) history is replete with state-created "accidents," "suicides" and sudden "natural deaths" orchestrated and performed by the secret police. In this case, the injuries sustained by the nine are also beautifully consistent with known lethal close combat techniques, as I and others have described here in these forums.
2. Bullets do the job quicker. But bullet wounds tell everyone that a murder has been performed. These nine students who very likely entered into an area where they observed something no ordinary citizens were supposed or allowed to know about were respectable Soviet citizens with families and friends who were people with a position in society. To kill them in an obvious way by leaving bullet wounds, to just make them "disappear" or to transport them into closed coffins would make it obvious to everyone what happened. That would have created political turmoil, and the whole thing including the very likely secret military facilities would have been exposed. For this reason the nine students had to be executed in a manner that made it look like an accident.
3. All the cover-ups that subsequently have continued up to this day where Russian authorities have claimed an avalanche which demonstrably did not happen and could not happen in the area, confirm the very fact that the Soviets and Russian leaders really had and have something to hide. This can only be their own actions. Even today, it would reflect very badly on the Russian state if the truth were to be exposed. So the cover-ups continue.
4. What happened to the Mansi was also very revealing. Some of their numbers were brought in for interrogation, and the authorities pretended that they were under suspicion. Suddenly a seamstress was brought in and said that the students' tent had been cut from the inside and that this meant that there was no criminal act - and the Mansi were no longer suspected. What happened was that the Russian secret police had also orchestrated this. By first arresting some Mansi and then letting them off the hook an unspoken but clear messages was given: "If you ever tell anyone about what we know that you observed, we will invent any necessary evidence. We let you off the hook for now, but stay silent."
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A knowledgeable person who knows about close combat fighting quickly recognizes that these unfortunates were killed by other humans who were trained killers. Since I have studied Jiu Jitsu, in several cases I could tell what techniques were likely used to take the lives of the students.
I am not knowledgeable in close combat fighting . Please tell us what techniques were likely used ?
1. Deformed neck and a suspicious wound behind the ear of Kolevatov. It was revealed that his larynx had been crushed. These injuries can hardly have been made by any kind of accident: https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Kolevatov
2- Ljudmila Dubinina had a crushed rib cage, and no other injuries to the body. During my Jiu Jjitsu I personally have been taught to create these injuries by hard elbow strikes, and it was also explained that this is a known technique used by police forces to incapacitate people.
3. The same with Zolotaryov. it is noteworthy that Dubinina and Zolotaryov had the same type of chest injury. This is understandable because killing squads are normally divided into groups. One group attacked Dubinina and Zolotaryov and chose this technique. Also, Zolotaryov was trained in boxing and wrestling - and so had to be killed with particular force since he very likely resisted.
I could go on, and will do so later.
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1. There was no senseless slaughter involved. The nine victims were chased out from the tent, that would have happened at gunpoint. The attackers first made sure that their victims were improperly dressed. Their plan was to let the cold to the dirty job of killing.
Вы тогда уж поясните - на алтарь чего положены эти девять жизней? Во имя чего требовалось их убрать физически и еще и так мучительно?
You then explain - on the altar of what these nine lives are laid? In the name of what it was required to remove them physically and also so painfully?
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I could go on, and will do so later.
Не надо уводить тему в конец. У Вас нет, полностью отсутствует самое начало. Зачем нужно было убивать? Что было бы, если эти туристы остались бы живыми и невредимыми?
There is no need to take the topic to the end. You don't, the very beginning is completely missing. Why was it necessary to kill? What would happen if these tourists remained alive and unharmed?
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The main issue I have with the murder theory is that it completely lacks a motive.
When a dead person or several dead persons are found, what is the normal procedure?
Is it to ask for a motive, and then conclude that it cannot be manslaughter if there is no obvious motive for homicide?
Or is it rather to examine the corpses and the surroundings, in order to investigate into the cause(s) of death?
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I could go on, and will do so later.
Не надо уводить тему в конец. У Вас нет, полностью отсутствует самое начало. Зачем нужно было убивать? Что было бы, если эти туристы остались бы живыми и невредимыми?
There is no need to take the topic to the end. You don't, the very beginning is completely missing. Why was it necessary to kill? What would happen if these tourists remained alive and unharmed?
If they observed something that the ordinary citizens were not allowed to know about, they would be able to tell others if they were allowed to live. That fact made them a threat to state security.
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If they observed something that the ordinary citizens were not allowed to know about, they would be able to tell others if they were allowed to live. That fact made them a threat to state security.
Что же это был за явление, которое попалось им на глаза? В СССР - больше не было граждан кроме туристов группы Дятлова - со зрением?
What was this phenomenon that caught their eye? In the USSR - there were no more citizens except for the tourists of the Dyatlov group - with vision?
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I am not knowledgeable in close combat fighting . Please tell us what techniques were likely used ?
Have a close look at these injuries.
Nicholas Thibeaux-Brignolle:
1. multiple fractures to the temporal bone, with extensions to the frontal and sphenoid bones, the close up of the fractures to the skull is shown on the picture
2. bruise on the upper lip on the left side
3. hemorrhage on the lower forearm, size 10x12 cm
First; look at this picture:
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Nikolay-Thibeaux-Brignolle-autopsy-report.png
That fracture, you see that it looks very much like from a blow from a rifle butt.
As for the hemorrhage on the lower forearm: This is very significant. That precise point at the biceps muscle is known to be used by police forces in order to paralyze a human being.
Are these injuries what can be expected from an avalanche? Not at all. They are strong indications of human attack by professional killers.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Thibeaux)
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I could go on, and will do so later.
Не надо уводить тему в конец. У Вас нет, полностью отсутствует самое начало. Зачем нужно было убивать? Что было бы, если эти туристы остались бы живыми и невредимыми?
There is no need to take the topic to the end. You don't, the very beginning is completely missing. Why was it necessary to kill? What would happen if these tourists remained alive and unharmed?
This ^^^
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This ^^^
Я выше спросила - свидетелями чего стали на его взгляд так жестоко загубленные туристы? Что такое они увидели, что только смерть закрывала все проблемы.
А в ответ - тишина и повторный круг гипноза.
I asked above - what witnessed, in his opinion, so cruelly ruined tourists? What did they see that only death closed all the problems.
And in response - silence and a second circle of hypnosis.
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That fracture, you see that it looks very much like from a blow from a rifle butt.
Yes, I see. You're right. The mark actually looks like the butt of a Mosin rifle.
Russian 3-linear (7.62 mm) Mosin rifle, model 1891
Да, я вижу. Вы правы. След на самом деле похож на приклад винтовки Мосина.
Русская 3-линейная (7,62-мм) винтовка Мосина образца 1891 года
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This ^^^
Я выше спросила - свидетелями чего стали на его взгляд так жестоко загубленные туристы? Что такое они увидели, что только смерть закрывала все проблемы.
А в ответ - тишина и повторный круг гипноза.
I asked above - what witnessed, in his opinion, so cruelly ruined tourists? What did they see that only death closed all the problems.
And in response - silence and a second circle of hypnosis.
They saw a thing…. punishable by death. 🤨
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2- Ljudmila Dubinina had a crushed rib cage, and no other injuries to the body. During my Jiu Jjitsu I personally have been taught to create these injuries by hard elbow strikes, and it was also explained that this is a known technique used by police forces to incapacitate people.
Admit it, is it you?
Признавайтесь, это вы?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnd4yOQEnOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnd4yOQEnOY)
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They are strong indications of human attack by professional killers.
https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325 (https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325)
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They are strong indications of human attack by professional killers.
https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325 (https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325)
shock1
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They saw a thing…. punishable by death. 🤨
Что это такое, что нужно карать смертью? Приведите примерный перечень и я Вам авторитетно вычеркну все пункты.
What is it that should be punished by death? Give an approximate list and I will authoritatively cross out all the points for you.
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They saw a thing…. punishable by death. 🤨
Что это такое, что нужно карать смертью? Приведите примерный перечень и я Вам авторитетно вычеркну все пункты.
What is it that should be punished by death? Give an approximate list and I will authoritatively cross out all the points for you.
Im being sarcastic. 😂
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https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325 (https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325)
Это народное украинское творчество а-ля Тарас Бульба?
Is this Ukrainian folk art a la Taras Bulba?
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Im being sarcastic. 😂
Ну значит Вы давно в теме Перевал Дятлова. У старожилов этой темы - одно спасение: ирония и сарказм. Фифти/фифти в долях.
У начинающих - обычно маниакальная подозрительность. Они в каждой елке - видят безжалостных убийц или дикие ракеты.
Well, then you have long been in the subject of the Dyatlov Pass. The old-timers of this topic have one salvation: irony and sarcasm. Fifty/fifty in shares.
Beginners usually have manic suspicion. They see ruthless killers or wild rockets in every tree.
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They are strong indications of human attack by professional killers.
https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325 (https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325)
It looks like he's acting out a scene from Dragon Ball Z. lol4
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They are strong indications of human attack by professional killers.
https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325 (https://youtu.be/vEqBlu_ih6E?t=325)
It looks like he's acting out a scene from Dragon Ball Z. lol4
What did I just watch?
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What did I just watch?
Если говорить без обиняков - Вы посмотрели представление фокусника. Плохого фокусника.
To put it bluntly, you watched a magician's performance. Bad magician.
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
thumb1
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
There is already countless evidence that forces other than nature kill. So we have the evidence. It is very clear that nature is the ineffective element in this event. No one on that slope, not even an amateur, dies of cold in just 6 hours. This is not possible. It takes at least 24 hours to die from the cold. By then it will already be daytime and the temperature will likely rise above 0 degrees. This will definitely save them. So hikers kill from any external factor, not from the cold. You still dream of saying nature, nature, nature...
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There is already countless evidence that forces other than nature kill. So we have the evidence. It is very clear that nature is the ineffective element in this event. No one on that slope, not even an amateur, dies of cold in just 6 hours. This is not possible. It takes at least 24 hours to die from the cold. By then it will already be daytime and the temperature will likely rise above 0 degrees. This will definitely save them. So hikers kill from any external factor, not from the cold. You still dream of saying nature, nature, nature...
Не так давно произошел случай, когда замерзли китайцы, которые выполняли пробежку традиционную. Они попали в непогоду со снегом и ветром. Лень искать ссылку. Китайцы! Причем достаточно быстро. А это самый спортивный и адаптированный народ. И очень рационально и практично мыслящий.
Not so long ago, there was a case when the Chinese, who were doing a traditional jog, froze. They were caught in bad weather with snow and wind. Too lazy to look for a link. Chinese! And fast enough. And this is the most athletic and adapted people. And very rational and practical thinking.
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“nature is the ineffective element in this event.“
Nature:…. Hold my beer lol1
Oh ya…. lets just wait until the sun comes up. Wait, its up right now…. dooh! explode1 whist1 bang1
(https://i.ibb.co/qsMrrXt/902-A4-A00-7-DE6-497-A-95-F1-F83-C0-DE4-F6-CD.webp) (https://ibb.co/C75HHNk)
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“nature is the ineffective element in this event.“
Nature:…. Hold my beer lol1
Oh ya…. lets just wait until the sun comes up. Wait, its up right now…. dooh! explode1 whist1 bang1
(https://i.ibb.co/qsMrrXt/902-A4-A00-7-DE6-497-A-95-F1-F83-C0-DE4-F6-CD.webp) (https://ibb.co/C75HHNk)
What film is this photo from?
С какой плёнки эта фотография ?
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
There is already countless evidence that forces other than nature kill. So we have the evidence. It is very clear that nature is the ineffective element in this event. No one on that slope, not even an amateur, dies of cold in just 6 hours. This is not possible. It takes at least 24 hours to die from the cold. By then it will already be daytime and the temperature will likely rise above 0 degrees. This will definitely save them. So hikers kill from any external factor, not from the cold. You still dream of saying nature, nature, nature...
In winter in the Northern Urals, 0 degrees is rather a very rare anomaly. Almost always minus temperatures. In addition, I assure you, the temperature on the slope can be very different from the temperature in the lowland near the stream. For example, on the slope the wind is -10, and near the stream -20 and no wind.
Зимой на Северном Урале 0 градусов это уже скорее очень редкая аномалия. Практически всегда минусовая температура. Кроме того, я вас уверяю, температура на склоне может сильно отличаться от температуры в низине у ручья. Например, на склоне ветер и -10, а у ручья -20 и без ветра.
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There is already countless evidence that forces other than nature kill. So we have the evidence. It is very clear that nature is the ineffective element in this event. No one on that slope, not even an amateur, dies of cold in just 6 hours. This is not possible. It takes at least 24 hours to die from the cold. By then it will already be daytime and the temperature will likely rise above 0 degrees. This will definitely save them. So hikers kill from any external factor, not from the cold. You still dream of saying nature, nature, nature...
Не так давно произошел случай, когда замерзли китайцы, которые выполняли пробежку традиционную. Они попали в непогоду со снегом и ветром. Лень искать ссылку. Китайцы! Причем достаточно быстро. А это самый спортивный и адаптированный народ. И очень рационально и практично мыслящий.
Not so long ago, there was a case when the Chinese, who were doing a traditional jog, froze. They were caught in bad weather with snow and wind. Too lazy to look for a link. Chinese! And fast enough. And this is the most athletic and adapted people. And very rational and practical thinking.
Chinese runners were sweaty. If you have sweat on you, yes you can die in minus degrees in a few hours. This is possible. Because sweat makes you feel cold 2-3 times more!!! But it's impossible to die of cold overnight if you don't have sweat on you. And that night it was only -10 degrees and they got a little cold and they started a fire but they didn't stay by the fire long. Because the cold was not too much and did not affect their lives. If the weather was very cold, they would never leave the fire. In short, young people certainly did not die of cold.
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
There is already countless evidence that forces other than nature kill. So we have the evidence. It is very clear that nature is the ineffective element in this event. No one on that slope, not even an amateur, dies of cold in just 6 hours. This is not possible. It takes at least 24 hours to die from the cold. By then it will already be daytime and the temperature will likely rise above 0 degrees. This will definitely save them. So hikers kill from any external factor, not from the cold. You still dream of saying nature, nature, nature...
In winter in the Northern Urals, 0 degrees is rather a very rare anomaly. Almost always minus temperatures. In addition, I assure you, the temperature on the slope can be very different from the temperature in the lowland near the stream. For example, on the slope the wind is -10, and near the stream -20 and no wind.
Зимой на Северном Урале 0 градусов это уже скорее очень редкая аномалия. Практически всегда минусовая температура. Кроме того, я вас уверяю, температура на склоне может сильно отличаться от температуры в низине у ручья. Например, на склоне ветер и -10, а у ручья -20 и без ветра.
How is it possible that the air in the valley is colder than the air on the slope? Do you have any proof? And when there is no wind??? I don't believe that even an amateur can die of cold overnight, provided they are not sweaty. It is not possible for 9 professional mountaineers to die of cold overnight... It's just a dream...
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“nature is the ineffective element in this event.“
Nature:…. Hold my beer lol1
Oh ya…. lets just wait until the sun comes up. Wait, its up right now…. dooh! explode1 whist1 bang1
(https://i.ibb.co/qsMrrXt/902-A4-A00-7-DE6-497-A-95-F1-F83-C0-DE4-F6-CD.webp) (https://ibb.co/C75HHNk)
What film is this photo from?
С какой плёнки эта фотография ?
Its a cropped version of…
(https://i.ibb.co/4PQ8Jsk/BAEA3388-8291-4489-8-CBD-5-E3125-E63496.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NZ4971R)
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Everyone, then and now dies from anoxia. No exceptions.
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Chinese runners were sweaty. If you have sweat on you, yes you can die in minus degrees in a few hours. This is possible. Because sweat makes you feel cold 2-3 times more!!! But it's impossible to die of cold overnight if you don't have sweat on you. And that night it was only -10 degrees and they got a little cold and they started a fire but they didn't stay by the fire long. Because the cold was not too much and did not affect their lives. If the weather was very cold, they would never leave the fire. In short, young people certainly did not die of cold.
Это кто Вам сказал что китайские бегуны вспотели? Марафон на длинные дистанции - это отнюдь не быстрый бег. Поищите ту историю в Гугле и почитайте условия и обстоятельства. Мне лень обеспечивать Вас такими рассказами, которые легко находятся поиском из двух ключевых слов по-английски.
Who told you that the Chinese runners were sweating? A long-distance marathon is by no means a fast run. Google that story and read the terms and conditions. I'm too lazy to provide you with such stories, which are easily found by a two-key word search in English.
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Nature does not need a reason, people do. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. This conspiracists fall back on. I prefer Occam's razor. Natural causes compounded by unfortunate circumstance seems right. I like the slab slip idea as the precipitating incident.
The injuries found on the bodies tell their tale. Bodies do not lie.
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The reason there is no conspiracy, nor murder is because of the injuries to the bodies. 1. Any soldier with a gun can say, "leave your tent".,There is no need to lay a finger on the hikers. Fire a few bullets in the air and they will understand.Secondly, if chased away from the tent ,once the hikers got into the woods, they could just go through the forest and over the hill to their labaz.Third, a fire was made. Any fire is also a signal fire. The hikers could set the cedar on fire if they had to. They did not. Fourth, three bodies were found in the direction of the tent. If they fell when returning to the tent, there was no threat at the tent. If they fell leaving the tent, their bodies would not be injured, Also they would have more strength going downhill from the tent. Surely, they fell trying to regain the tent. Finally, if they were chased from the tent, someone would have gone inside to eat their food and drink their vodka, just out of meanness.
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Chinese runners were sweaty. If you have sweat on you, yes you can die in minus degrees in a few hours. This is possible. Because sweat makes you feel cold 2-3 times more!!! But it's impossible to die of cold overnight if you don't have sweat on you. And that night it was only -10 degrees and they got a little cold and they started a fire but they didn't stay by the fire long. Because the cold was not too much and did not affect their lives. If the weather was very cold, they would never leave the fire. In short, young people certainly did not die of cold.
Это кто Вам сказал что китайские бегуны вспотели? Марафон на длинные дистанции - это отнюдь не быстрый бег. Поищите ту историю в Гугле и почитайте условия и обстоятельства. Мне лень обеспечивать Вас такими рассказами, которые легко находятся поиском из двух ключевых слов по-английски.
Who told you that the Chinese runners were sweating? A long-distance marathon is by no means a fast run. Google that story and read the terms and conditions. I'm too lazy to provide you with such stories, which are easily found by a two-key word search in English.
Every running person sweats. And running people have empty stomachs and they can't generate internal heat either. And because they are sweaty, their little remaining body heat is also consumed very quickly. And runners don't have outer clothing anyway. And they can freeze and die within a few hours. However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
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However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
I admit that homeless people are neither mountaineers nor do they have a full stomach, but nevertheless: There are many people that freeze to death during winter in our cities today, because they do not have shelter. Maybe they don't need 6 hours for it. But it is a danger. And you CAN freeze to death, even if it's more than 0°C.
You are right in saying sweat (and also for other reasons wet clothes) are an additional risk. As is the lack of nutrition, alcohol and the wind chill effect.
I'd say, there were some mildly sweaty clothes and the wind, that add to the severe risk of freezing for the DP9.
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However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
I admit that homeless people are neither mountaineers nor do they have a full stomach, but nevertheless: There are many people that freeze to death during winter in our cities today, because they do not have shelter. Maybe they don't need 6 hours for it. But it is a danger. And you CAN freeze to death, even if it's more than 0°C.
You are right in saying sweat (and also for other reasons wet clothes) are an additional risk. As is the lack of nutrition, alcohol and the wind chill effect.
I'd say, there were some mildly sweaty clothes and the wind, that add to the severe risk of freezing for the DP9.
Most street people are sick. Their immunity is very weak. And they are very malnourished. And their death won't happen in a few hours. Because they stay out in the cold every night, they stay in the cold for weeks or even months and eventually die. And there are tens of millions of them on Earth, but only a few hundred of them die of cold per year. They may also be due to possible weakness of the body and other diseases. It is wrong to equate them with 9 professional mountaineers. And no one dies from cold at temperatures above 0 degrees. Give me an example. And it's not possible for the climbers to be sweaty that night...They would have to run for that. They didn't run. They walked calmly. And their stomachs were full. So they were not hungry. And they didn't drink alcohol. And there was no storm. The weather was calm.
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However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
I admit that homeless people are neither mountaineers .
What must a person do to become a mountaineer? They did the toughest hike ever! In the Urals!!! And it is known that all of them took such long walks before. This makes them climbers. Of course, it is not in the sense of climbing the steep mountains that I am talking about here.
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However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
I admit that homeless people are neither mountaineers nor do they have a full stomach, but nevertheless: There are many people that freeze to death during winter in our cities today, because they do not have shelter. Maybe they don't need 6 hours for it. But it is a danger. And you CAN freeze to death, even if it's more than 0°C.
You are right in saying sweat (and also for other reasons wet clothes) are an additional risk. As is the lack of nutrition, alcohol and the wind chill effect.
I'd say, there were some mildly sweaty clothes and the wind, that add to the severe risk of freezing for the DP9.
Most street people are sick. Their immunity is very weak. And they are very malnourished. And their death won't happen in a few hours. Because they stay out in the cold every night, they stay in the cold for weeks or even months and eventually die. And there are tens of millions of them on Earth, but only a few hundred of them die of cold per year. They may also be due to possible weakness of the body and other diseases. It is wrong to equate them with 9 professional mountaineers. And no one dies from cold at temperatures above 0 degrees. Give me an example. And it's not possible for the climbers to be sweaty that night...They would have to run for that. They didn't run. They walked calmly. And their stomachs were full. So they were not hungry. And they didn't drink alcohol. And there was no storm. The weather was calm.
I don't know, what it's like where you live. I can say for Berlin, where I live, that we do have shelter and homeless can get food and medical help. It just is not enough for everyone (plus some don't want to use it), so there are people freezing even in Berlin. Even if they are not per se malnourished and unhealthy.
Also I didn't equate them with the DP9, I only made a comparison. I'm well aware, that the DP9 were surely fitter but then again the surroundings were worse.
As for the freezing above 0°, I have no definite example, but maybe that statement is good enough:
How do you develop hypothermia?
Hypothermia can develop with prolonged exposure to temperatures under 10°C, or after prolonged immersion in cold water of temperatures of less than 20°C..
In colder conditions or when there is wind chill (the felt air temperature due to wind) it can occur within a shorter exposure.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/factsheets/Pages/hypothermia.aspx (https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/factsheets/Pages/hypothermia.aspx)
When looking for your example, I stumbled across a site mentioning, that one factor is the humidity in the air. I'm not sure about the humidity in the night of the incident, but it could be an additional factor.
Plus: You can sweat without running. For example when setting up a tent against a strong wind, which is exhausting. Also the skiing probably did make them break a sweat, as suggests the fact, that at least one was wearing the pullover with the inner side out.
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However, it is definitely not possible for 9 professional mountaineers, who are not sweaty, have a full stomach and have outer clothes, to die of cold within 6 hours.
I admit that homeless people are neither mountaineers nor do they have a full stomach, but nevertheless: There are many people that freeze to death during winter in our cities today, because they do not have shelter. Maybe they don't need 6 hours for it. But it is a danger. And you CAN freeze to death, even if it's more than 0°C.
You are right in saying sweat (and also for other reasons wet clothes) are an additional risk. As is the lack of nutrition, alcohol and the wind chill effect.
I'd say, there were some mildly sweaty clothes and the wind, that add to the severe risk of freezing for the DP9.
Most street people are sick. Their immunity is very weak. And they are very malnourished. And their death won't happen in a few hours. Because they stay out in the cold every night, they stay in the cold for weeks or even months and eventually die. And there are tens of millions of them on Earth, but only a few hundred of them die of cold per year. They may also be due to possible weakness of the body and other diseases. It is wrong to equate them with 9 professional mountaineers. And no one dies from cold at temperatures above 0 degrees. Give me an example. And it's not possible for the climbers to be sweaty that night...They would have to run for that. They didn't run. They walked calmly. And their stomachs were full. So they were not hungry. And they didn't drink alcohol. And there was no storm. The weather was calm.
I don't know, what it's like where you live. I can say for Berlin, where I live, that we do have shelter and homeless can get food and medical help. It just is not enough for everyone (plus some don't want to use it), so there are people freezing even in Berlin. Even if they are not per se malnourished and unhealthy.
Also I didn't equate them with the DP9, I only made a comparison. I'm well aware, that the DP9 were surely fitter but then again the surroundings were worse.
As for the freezing above 0°, I have no definite example, but maybe that statement is good enough:
How do you develop hypothermia?
Hypothermia can develop with prolonged exposure to temperatures under 10°C, or after prolonged immersion in cold water of temperatures of less than 20°C..
In colder conditions or when there is wind chill (the felt air temperature due to wind) it can occur within a shorter exposure.
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/factsheets/Pages/hypothermia.aspx (https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/factsheets/Pages/hypothermia.aspx)
When looking for your example, I stumbled across a site mentioning, that one factor is the humidity in the air. I'm not sure about the humidity in the night of the incident, but it could be an additional factor.
Plus: You can sweat without running. For example when setting up a tent against a strong wind, which is exhausting. Also the skiing probably did make them break a sweat, as suggests the fact, that at least one was wearing the pullover with the inner side out.
Places like Berlin may be an exception. And if there is a shelter, if he is fed enough and if he is not sick, and if he is adequately dressed, it is not possible for him to freeze from the cold. Those who are said to have died from cold, on the other hand, are a result for those whose cause of death is unknown. As a result, autopsies are not performed on those who die on the street and are said to have died from the cold. The quote you made is an assumption...an assumption made by scientists...There is no precedent in real life....There was no storm at the time of the incident, and there was no work to be overexerted. They just walked 1 mile downhill. The reason they turn their clothes inside out is because they are wet, not because of sweat. And these people also knew that they should not sweat at -10 degrees. And that's why they didn't rush even at the moment of exiting the tent. They just walked. And in extreme cold, you have to exert a lot of effort to sweat. And you have to be very cowardly and ignorant... they knew they would get hypothermia as soon as they sweat. They didn't.
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What were the clothes wet from, if not from sweat? Did they take a bath with their clothes? Did they wash them and put on afterwards? I'm puzzled.
As for the freezing or not: I'm done. If you don't believe in what scientists have to say on that matter, I won't make you change your point of view. You won't change mine either, for I do believe in those statements, because they correlate with what I've learned about science. dunno1
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What were the clothes wet from, if not from sweat? Did they take a bath with their clothes? Did they wash them and put on afterwards? I'm puzzled.
As for the freezing or not: I'm done. If you don't believe in what scientists have to say on that matter, I won't make you change your point of view. You won't change mine either, for I do believe in those statements, because they correlate with what I've learned about science. dunno1
Clothes can get wet from snow or get wet from rain. Can you imagine a sweater getting drenched just by sweating? This can only happen in the bath. Or in a desert... And when it comes to scientists, take a look at a history and you won't believe how wrong scientists are!!! You will even laugh at them. scientists only guess, they can come out right or wrong...don't overestimate them...
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Scientists use a falsifiable hypothesis as their methodology. This means they make an educated guess which must be able to be proven false. The operant word is proven. To prove an assertion, it must be testable. The very best test is called an experiment. It is the only acceptable method. If a hypothesis can not be falsified, then the hypothesis becomes a theory. A theory is still a best guess supported by available evidence. Science has very, very few laws, or indisputable truths. For example, everything that is hot will get cold. No exceptions. It is the law of thermodynamics.
The difference between scientists and forum wags largely boils down to methodology. Scientists experiment. Forum members speculate,and argue in lieu of experimentation. Further, scientists will change their theory when their hypothesis can be falsified. Forum members just shout louder and become abusive and evasive to clutch their preferred point of view. As,a supreme irony, you will find forum participants vigorously arguing their point of view by falling back on the work of,scientists! Remember this, science is inherently self correcting. Personal bias and prejudice is not.
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What were the clothes wet from, if not from sweat? Did they take a bath with their clothes? Did they wash them and put on afterwards? I'm puzzled.
As for the freezing or not: I'm done. If you don't believe in what scientists have to say on that matter, I won't make you change your point of view. You won't change mine either, for I do believe in those statements, because they correlate with what I've learned about science. dunno1
Clothes can get wet from snow or get wet from rain. Can you imagine a sweater getting drenched just by sweating? This can only happen in the bath. Or in a desert... And when it comes to scientists, take a look at a history and you won't believe how wrong scientists are!!! You will even laugh at them. scientists only guess, they can come out right or wrong...don't overestimate them...
It doesn't make much sense to turn a pullover left to right, if it got wet from the outside, does it?
And yes, there are again and again situations that need to modify scientific hypothesis. But until then, they hold according to experiments and all logic involved. So how can you prove your statement that no one freezes to death at above 0°C. temperatures?
Hypothermia is defined as the core temperature of the body getting too low. This can happen theoretically at each and every temperature that is lower than body temperature. Now you have to take into account, that the body itself produces heat. But why should that make the border of possible hypothermia exactly 0°C.?
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What were the clothes wet from, if not from sweat? Did they take a bath with their clothes? Did they wash them and put on afterwards? I'm puzzled.
As for the freezing or not: I'm done. If you don't believe in what scientists have to say on that matter, I won't make you change your point of view. You won't change mine either, for I do believe in those statements, because they correlate with what I've learned about science. dunno1
Clothes can get wet from snow or get wet from rain. Can you imagine a sweater getting drenched just by sweating? This can only happen in the bath. Or in a desert... And when it comes to scientists, take a look at a history and you won't believe how wrong scientists are!!! You will even laugh at them. scientists only guess, they can come out right or wrong...don't overestimate them...
It doesn't make much sense to turn a pullover left to right, if it got wet from the outside, does it?
And yes, there are again and again situations that need to modify scientific hypothesis. But until then, they hold according to experiments and all logic involved. So how can you prove your statement that no one freezes to death at above 0°C. temperatures?
Hypothermia is defined as the core temperature of the body getting too low. This can happen theoretically at each and every temperature that is lower than body temperature. Now you have to take into account, that the body itself produces heat. But why should that make the border of possible hypothermia exactly 0°C.?
Wearing clothes inside out will allow them to dry faster in the wind. We know that there is wind on the slope day and night. If no one has ever died, I'll believe it. Hypotheses say something. But in real life he says something. I believe more in real life. However, the thing is that above 0 degrees, a person does not have hypothermia and does not freeze. But if a person stays between 0-10 degrees for too long, it can cause his death. But it's not hypothermia. It occurs when the cold reduces his immunity and makes him sick or very weak. Is there a definite limit of 0 degrees? It is discussed. But the logic is this: If the water is freezing, I can freeze too. Because 70% of human is water. It was created from Sudan.
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Can we make a distinction between hypothermia and freezing? I believe there is one.
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Can we make a distinction between hypothermia and freezing? I believe there is one.
Yes, there is one, although the phrase "freeze to death" means to die because of low temperature and has nothing to do with freezing in the sense of being frozen like ice or frozen peas.
In the latter sense you can't freeze at temperatures above 0°C. In the first sense you can.
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Do I understand where this is going? Ruffians assaulted the DP9 and made them work up a collective sweat. The inefficiency of their clothes induces a lowering of core body temperature. Their subsequent behaviors can not reverse the effect of cold and in fact exacerbates it, leading to frozen death for all. The ruffians monitor this for the duration of their agony. When the last of them dies, the ruffians leave, and leave no trace. If this explains the how of their death, all that remains is the why. Care to supply that?
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I don't know, where this is going. All I wanted was to object to the notion, that healthy young people can't freeze in the circumstances present at the pass in the night of the incident.
I follow a completely different theory at the moment. But maybe ilahiyol will explain his theory?
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I tend to argue against theories rather than for them. This is not to be negative, but simply because I don’t believe one single theory is fully supported by all the evidence. All of them have problems, even the official avalanche theory, which is why I object so strongly to it being the official theory. It could be the right one, but no studies have proven that to be the case over the other ones. About the only thing I can say is that I lean toward some type of unexpected event causing the hikers to leave their tent, that they were not killed, but there was a cover-up after the fact. It’s kind of hard, though, to set anything in stone when you have to at least accept a few assumptions to argue any single theory. No one survived and the collection of evidence to begin with was less than the rigorous scientific method law enforcement is expected to adhere to these days. Whether this was for a nefarious reason or simply because the search party thought they would find them alive is a matter of conjecture. The uncertainty it invariably injected into the case still applies either way, though. Just take the footprint evidence, for instance? Are they the footprints of the group? We’re they made by bare or shod feet. The search party said they didn’t make them, but how can we be sure? People have argued these questions every which way to Sunday, and depending on the interpretation, it greatly affects the conclusion you come to. Obviously, if they belong to the group, that would suggest something other than if they belonged to persons unknown. And if it’s the search party, then they’re irrelevant. That is unfortunately the uncertainty we have to deal with, but to be unwilling to believe it’s there doesn’t really help in getting any closer to the truth.
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All theories are flawed
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All theories are subject to falsification through testing. If in light of a new fact, the theory is revised, you could say it was a flawed theory. The term" flaw"is tricky.Lay people will assign a value judgement of goodness or badness to the change as opposed to correctness. Human nature is such that it is common to extrapolate the good/bad judgment as an assessment of the theorist. Members of the forum by and largely subscribe to some type of theory. The stiff necked minority who won't entertain findings from thought experiments, or real world tests are dogmatic, that is, rigid in their thinking. Also, not much fun. It results in ad hominem attacks going after the contributor, not the topic.Loose Cannon and Teddy have had to sanction members for this reason. It also manifests in the general discussion like in MDGross' recent call to order post.
To advance our research, the best way to procede is to employ "if/then" hypotheses. For example, I hypothesize that if Nurse Solter acquired new clothes for the corpses, then it was she who paid for those garments with her own money. With this hypothesis clearly stated, a course of action can follow. The investigation proceeds.
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To advance our research, the best way to procede is to employ "if/then" hypotheses. For example, I hypothesize that if Nurse Solter acquired new clothes for the corpses, then it was she who paid for those garments with her own money. With this hypothesis clearly stated, a course of action can follow. The investigation proceeds.
You're possibly right there. I keep forgetting, that people tend to judge theories by terms of right/wrong only, because I keep relating to the circumstances of the origin (which makes it sometimes hard for me, but that's another story entirely...)
But to employ if-then-statements is a little stiff. Especially when it's often not the actual implication people argue about, but the premise. Plus sometimes we don't even have to argue about the implication. Take for example the theory, that the lights in the sky that night were UFOs of an extraterrestrial kind. Then it's not a big deal to agree on the fact, that those UFOs made the hikers leave their tent of fear. I'd completely buy that. Yet I'm strongly averse to the theory of aliens visiting the pass that night.
And then there's also the question of wording. Referring to your example of the buying of clothes. Does pay mean the action of giving money away for getting clothes? Or do you mean it was her money she gave? In the first case, I'd agree. Not in the latter, because she might have gotten the money back afterwards. Or maybe she got money beforehand, which she spend.
Communication can be so difficult, but it is so important...
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To advance our research, the best way to procede is to employ "if/then" hypotheses. For example, I hypothesize that if Nurse Solter acquired new clothes for the corpses, then it was she who paid for those garments with her own money. With this hypothesis clearly stated, a course of action can follow. The investigation proceeds.
You're possibly right there. I keep forgetting, that people tend to judge theories by terms of right/wrong only, because I keep relating to the circumstances of the origin (which makes it sometimes hard for me, but that's another story entirely...)
But to employ if-then-statements is a little stiff. Especially when it's often not the actual implication people argue about, but the premise. Plus sometimes we don't even have to argue about the implication. Take for example the theory, that the lights in the sky that night were UFOs of an extraterrestrial kind. Then it's not a big deal to agree on the fact, that those UFOs made the hikers leave their tent of fear. I'd completely buy that. Yet I'm strongly averse to the theory of aliens visiting the pass that night.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and it just isn’t there for that particular theory. That there were strange lights in the sky over the region is pretty well-documented. Several groups of people, independent of each other, saw the lights at the same time and their descriptions match to a great extent. Plus, they were not likely to be lying out of a quest for fame or fortune since the government was not real happy at people spreading such stories. However, it can’t be ruled out that these were man made objects. Some people just interpret any reports that way because they believe in extraterrestrials visiting earth and are always on the lookout for evidence for it. However, it’s also a failing of human nature that we gravitate toward the sinister and the strange without ruling out the innocent and mundane. It makes the mystery much more interesting. If I were making a fiction movie about Dyatlov Pass, I would definitely consider abducted and murdered by aliens a much more entertaining and likely successful plot line than strong winds, or an avalanche, or their stove catching on fire. Real life, though, is rarely that entertaining, and usually the mystery is so much more interesting than the actual solution.
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Почемучка brought attention to rocket launches in the area. These light effects happen at specific times at twilight. See video below.
https://youtu.be/Y1Hfiirwgys
It seems plausible and certainly ties in with witnesses at the time. These sightings may run in parallel with DPI and have raised speculation ever since. There may be no link at all with the deaths. Just rocket launches at twilight. A rare phenomenon in its self as there needs to be certain conditions according to the video. Going by the statements of those that observed the sky , their descriptions seem to indicate a similar observation.
This video is worth a look, it can give us a possible answer to the lights in the sky.
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Choose a particular item such as lights in the sky. Hypothesize.,I predict that if there were lights in the sky in the vicinity of 1079 on the night of Feb 1, 1959,then those lights were from a terrestrial source. Now, a specific goal and an opportunity to gather facts to validate the hypothesis is defined. Finally, in the methodology of science, it is perfectly acceptable to find that a hypothesis is wrong. It is unacceptable to lie about it. This is how progress is made. Science is a way of thinking that has produced more and better results than any other form of mental endeavour.
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The video is describing a terrestrial cause. I just use the phrase" lights in the sky " as an example.
From Atmanaki Georgiy Vladimirovich testimony.
"On February 17, I and Vladimir Shavkunov got up at 6 am to prepare breakfast for the group. After making a fire and preparing everything necessary, we waited for the food to get ready. The sky was gray, there were no clouds, but there was a slight haze, which usually dissipates with the rising of the sun. Sitting facing north and accidentally turning my head to the east, I saw 30° high in the sky a milky white blur about 5-6 moons in diameter and a series of concentric circles. It resembled a halo around the moon in a clear frosty weather. I made a comment to my partner, that's how they painted the moon. He thought and said that in the first there is no moon, and besides, it should be on the other side. From the moment we noticed this phenomenon, it lasted 1-2 minutes, and how long it was there
before we noticed it we don't know. At this moment, at the very center of this spot, an asterisk flared up, which for a few seconds remained the same size, and then began to increase sharply in size and rapidly move in a western direction. Within a few seconds, she grew to the size of the moon, and then tearing off the smoke screen or clouds appeared a huge milk disc of milky color, 2-2.5 moons in diameter, surrounded by the same rings of pale color. Then, remaining the same size, the ball began to fade until it merged with the surrounding halo, which in turn spread out across the sky and went out. It was dawn. The clock was 6.57, the phenomenon lasted no more than a half minutes and produced a very uneasy impression. Initially, we did not pay attention to it, but then, when the glowing disk itself appeared, we were amazed. Personally, I had the impression that some heavenly body was falling in our direction, then, when it had grown to such enormous dimensions, a thought flashed through my head that another planet came into contact with the Earth, that now a collision would follow and nothing would remain of all earthly things. We were already awake for more than an hour, so we were well awake and didn't believe in hallucinations, but we just stood there hypnotized and only when the disc began to fade we rushed to the tent back
to wake up our comrades and show them the unusual phenomenon. I do not know how Karelin managed to jump out of the sleeping bag at lightning speed and run outside the tent in his underwear wearing only socks. He managed to see the disc losing its outline and the bright spot spreading across the sky."
We have the time of day and the date. The time of day fits with the said twilight effect . The description of what was sounds similar to what we can see on the video. I would put this forth as" a most likely explanation" . A rocket getting launched .
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Based on your evidence, a rocket launch is a valid conclusion. If a single rocket launch produced lights in the sky and if a Soviet rocket circa 1959 is a single point light source, then multiple points of light signifies a detonation of the rocket. If the detonated rocket produced fragments and those fragments were in proximity to 1079,,then those fragments may be found. Has the discovery been made?
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I'm out of my depth GlennM but others might be able to help.
Depending on the rocket ( I'm having a search) it might have stages that break off and cause the effects seen like in the video. The sun reflecting off the rocket thrusts would be brighter causing a number of visual illusions.
Also , these rocket(military?) launches may have happened on a regular bases for testing but only observed from the ground if launched at twilight and clear skies.
Fun fact:
Interestingly Luna 1 space rocket was launched on 2nd of January 1959.
On 2 January 1959, after reaching escape velocity, Luna 1 separated from its 1472 kg third stage. The third stage, 5.2 m long and 2.4 m in diameter, travelled along with Luna 1. On 3 January, at a distance of 113,000 km from Earth, a large (1 kg) cloud of sodium gas was released by the spacecraft. This glowing orange trail of gas, visible over the Indian Ocean with the brightness of a sixth-magnitude star, allowed astronomers to track the spacecraft. It also served as an experiment on the behavior of gas in outer space. Luna 1 passed within 5995 km of the Moon's surface on 4 January after 34 hours of flight. It went into orbit around the Sun, between the orbits of Earth and Mars.
The spacecraft contained a 19.993 MHz system which transmitted signals of 50.9 second duration, a 183.6 MHz transmitter for tracking purposes, and a 70.2 MHz transmitter. Four whip antennas and one rigid antenna mounted on the sphere provided the communications link. Power was supplied by mercury-oxide batteries and silver-zinc accumulators. There were five different sets of scientific devices for studying interplanetary space, including a magnetometer, geiger counter, scintillation counter, and micrometeorite detector, and other equipment. The measurements obtained during this mission provided new data on the Earth's radiation belt and outer space, including the discovery that the Moon had no magnetic field and that a solar wind, a strong flow of ionized plasma emmanating from the Sun, streamed through interplanetary space.
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I would surmise that a failed major rocket launch,would certainly not be a secret for long. If the launch was successful, then it is only a curious distraction and not essential for our investigations. What do you think, Ziljoe.
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I think it's just rockets, missiles doing there thing. It takes away the mystery and gives some understanding of what was being observed from the ground. Coincidence....nothing more or less.
The USSR may have wanted to quiet down the chat. The Cuban Revolution war ended in 1959 that then lead to the Cuban missile crisis and it's climax in 1962 . Luckily for all of us , Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Kennedy worked something out. I did read that it took so long to fuel the ICBM on Both sides that this may have given time for everyone to calm down and think. This is why we should only be allowed muskets and not AR's lol4
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thumb1
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Well, it would be kind of hard to imagine that the Soviet Union wasn’t doing a lot testing of military weapons. A large part of the Cold War was the Soviet Union and the United States trying to keep two steps ahead of each other with their nuclear capabilities. And one of the reasons the U2 spy flights were conducted by the Americans was because Krushchev had claimed the country had ballistic missiles. Plus, around the time of the Dyatlov Pass incident there was a military test carried out in which the rocket or whatever it was fell well short of its mark. There’s nothing to indicate that anything like that was going on the night the Dyatlov group died. My only point was that, yes, people could have seen th UFOs in the sky. But it’s far more likely that they had a terrestrial origin. And there’s nothing yet to rule that out.
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Teddy says the rocket was headed the other way. Cold war, yes. Highly educated collegiate skilled loyal Soviets, yes.
Valuable technological skills, yes. Send goons out in the middle of nowhere to chase them out into the snow for no particularly good reason, no. Conspiracies are good theater, yes.