December 10, 2022, 12:34:33 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Thoughts on the book  (Read 37592 times)

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June 18, 2021, 08:37:54 AM
Reply #240
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Manti


Some more thoughts on the book...

The Dyatlov Pass Incident is interesting because it's a mystery: several things seem hard to explain. Of course what these things are differ somewhat for everyone...

There are so many of such mysterious details, let me just focus on one: how did the hikers die? With the tent on the slope, it's really hard to explain the injuries of Lyuda, Thibo and Semyon. So the book does a great job demystifying this. A falling tree causing these injuries is plausible.


But then the reader finishes the book and some questions in are still unanswered in their head. To stay with the same question: how did the rest of the hikers die?

Here are purely my thoughts of how I would think:


Several of my friends are stuck under a tree. Thibo is probably unconscious but still has a pulse. The others might have been conscious. We need to free them! Let's try lifting the tree. Let's assume it's not successful, the tree is too heavy.

At this point the rest of us are getting a bit cold. All of our clothes and boots are in the tent, just put these on. It only takes half a minute.
Then continue trying to save those under the tree perhaps by trying to saw the trunk into smaller pieces. After all they had a saw. Perhaps send two or three to start a fire, as 2 are enough to operate the saw. When the fire is ready, we swap, they continue the sawing and we warm up by the fire. Perhaps even this fails, the tree is too thick.

Those stuck under the tree no longer show signs of life.


At this point, there are 5 very shocked, but otherwise healthy and fit hikers with only superficial injuries, a fire, warm clothes, a stove that by all accounts wasn't damaged, enough food for a week... I don't see any reason why they would die.


Their tent is perhaps stuck under a tree, what I would try is cut it in half and try to repair that half, then try to make it back to Vizhay. But even without a tent, they had hope. They passed a Mansi hut next to Auspiya which could be used for an overnight stay in this emergency. They passed caves where they could shelter and at 2nd Northern there is a usable house.

So I would like if the book expanded on this more. Perhaps even an additional chapter about what happened in the hours after the tree fell? Why did those only lightly injured not even put on boots and their coat?


(As I understand, the conspirators never found Dyatlov's body, and he was without a coat and boots.)




 

August 10, 2021, 05:05:00 AM
Reply #241
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Ziljoe


The book is like an 8 course meal with all the steak , ice cream , beans, cake and caviar thrown on a single plate to be accompanied by fortified wine .

There's one hell of a lot going on here. It is going to take time chewing this lot. I can see why there has been some negative comments because it does seem to jump about in some places.

However, this is the nature of the Dyatlovpass and the more I invest in reading it , the more interesting I'm finding it. This can not of been easy to put together so I totally respect that. I don't even know how you could of ascertained some of the information.

I don't actually think there would be an easier way to put such complex information together. I understand that some people would maybe like things explained easier but i agree that it's best suited to Dyatlov devotees.

There are some leaps of faith in what I've read so far and I'm sure I'll have some questions but I'll read it a couple of times (or more ) to make sure I understand the facts being presented.

Some ireally nteresting new links and explanations for sure . Good job to you and Igor and I don't know where you get the time from. 

All the best.
 

August 11, 2021, 07:11:00 AM
Reply #242
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Teddy

Administrator
Thank you for reading the book. I never said it's going to be easy. It reads like a thesis.
This is the work of Igor Pavlov's lifetime. It took him 10 years to figure it out.
In the last year I felt some eagerness to publish the book, and I was none the wiser. I am still fixing and uploading issues but overwhelmed with deep relief that I published it while he was alive to see it.
 

August 11, 2021, 08:20:02 AM
Reply #243
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Ziljoe


Thank you for publishing it . It covers a lot about all the anomalies in communication at the time and gives credence to a lot of the reports/statements that have remained as just hearsay.
 

August 22, 2021, 02:41:15 PM
Reply #244
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thealexhiggins


I certainly wouldn't bury supplies there, the marker would get blown away and you'd never find them again.

That is a very valid point to make.
 
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November 03, 2022, 02:09:48 AM
Reply #245
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Ehtnisba


I am sorry for ressurecting this topic. In itsinitial comments I noticed my question already posed by another user but couldn't find an answer. The question is about the ski pole visible in the right on picture where they dig the snow (for labaz or tent). In the pictures where searchers are squating next to the tent that same ski pole is at least visibly staying in its same place as on the pics from the hikers. This is what bugs me about the staged tent. This ski pole was used against the avalanche theory many times.
By the way I have always wanted to read about a theory that is both accident both involving other humans. I love all about the tree and reading the book all is convincing, but that ski pole is poking me... 😆
My only explanation is *marking the labaz*. But is it possible for whoever has put the tent to be so careful to not move it/remove it and if so why ? Not paying attention to it? But then how not stepping /pushing it... Arggghh vicious circle.. I will be thankful to hear what do you think?
Another bothersome thing is why in so many English translations from the case files there is a part of "skin found on the bark of the cedar" and if someone makes regular fire why would leave bare hands to chop branches. Or this is just speculation and doesn't exists in the Russian originals . My Russian is too poor to understand details as for that skin left on the cedar bark.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 02:19:22 AM by Ehtnisba »
Homo homini lupus est!
 

November 09, 2022, 01:32:32 PM
Reply #246
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Manti


I haven't been there.

I'm not an expert on these topics.

But skin found on the bark of the cedar's branches 1+ months after someone climbed them? I would say, that's impossible. It would have quickly frozen and been blown off by the wind.

I think it must be a myth.



 

November 09, 2022, 11:09:00 PM
Reply #247
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Teddy

Administrator
Another bothersome thing is why in so many English translations from the case files there is a part of "skin found on the bark of the cedar"

I have translated the case files myself and there is no such thing.
The only place this is mentioned is Ivanov's "Mystery of the fireballs" which is written 30 years after the incident to get attention back to a cold case and he points towards extraterrestrial sources. This is what his guilty conscious about botched work amounted to: 
"On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear."

BTW, I am curious, where did you see the case files translated? To find, transcribe and translate took me years, please let me know if you have more credible sources so I can correct my publications:
Dyatlov Pass Case files volume 1
Dyatlov Pass Classified Case Files volume 2
May 1959 Radiograms
CPSU Special Reports
Maslennikov notebook 1
Maslennikov notebook 2
Weather report Burmantovo February 1959
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 1
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 2
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 3



« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 05:35:49 AM by Teddy »
 

November 10, 2022, 12:33:58 AM
Reply #248
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Charles


he points towards extraterrestrial sources. This is what his guilty conscious about botched work amounted to...

Indeed! His statement his shocking. It's a mix of lies, cynicism and death threats:

"I asked the correspondent to publish my apologies to the relatives of the victims for distorting the truth, to hide the truth from them, and since there were no places for this in the four issues of the newspaper, I bring this publication to the families of the victims, especially to apologize to the relatives of Dubinina, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Zolotaryov. At one time, I tried to do everything I could, but at the time, as the lawyers say, there was an "irresistible force" in the country, it became possible to defeat it only now. And again about the fireballs. They were and still are. It is only necessary not to hush up their appearance, but to deeply understand their nature. The vast majority of the witnesses that I met talk about the peaceful nature of their behavior, but, as you see, there are also tragic exceptions. Someone needed to frighten or punish people, or show their strength, and they did this, killing three people. I know all the details of this incident and I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances... But what about the astronauts of the fireballs? If they exist, then sooner or later they will manifest themselves, and circumstances will bring them to our civilization. I have no doubt about that."

L.N. Ivanov was laughing to the tears when he could read his cynical provocations printed in a newspaper. He was a Russian version of Proculus Julius. But I don't think he had any "guilty conscious", he was rather claiming the intact strength of his caste and threatening anyone who could take advantage of the collapse of the USSR to find the truth. His ugly speech is nothing else but a demonstration of strength, showing the fangs off and the claws. For me, it is the continuation of the "relation to the accused?" asked to the relatives of the hikers, and an explicit threat.

The meaning is: We don't apologize to the relatives of the victims, we laugh to their faces. We distorted and hid the truth, and we will continue to do so. The "irresistible force" in the country is still irresistible. If we need to frighten or punish people, or show our strength, we kill. And now, do believe that the aliens of the spaceships will sooner or later manifest themselves, look up at the sky and shut your mouth.

 twitch7

PS: We are talking here about L.N. Ivanov, the prosecutor who signed in 1959 the resolution to close Dyatlov's case "considering the absence of external injuries"... he made later this cynical statement (in 1990).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 09:00:42 AM by Charles »
 

November 13, 2022, 05:58:35 AM
Reply #249
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amashilu


I have just finished reading this book for the second time. Thank you to Teddy and Igor for pulling all this information together. It is a lot to think about.

Two things stand out to me:

1) As the autopsies show that injuries were, on all hikers, to the head or the central body, with no arms or legs being broken, your theory requires that all hikers be lying in positions that keep their arms and legs out of the way of the tree, since crashing down on an arm or leg would surely crack or crush it. In the picture you have produced, Dubinina and Zolotaryev in particular are drawn with their arms way above their heads and out of the way of the tree. Others have their arms and legs out of the way, too, just not as completely as those two. I don't think everyone would lie down with arms above their heads. I don't think many people sleep like that, or even just lie down like that. I know your drawing depicts suggested postures, but the theory requires that no arms or legs be struck by the falling tree. It takes some distortion to make this appear in your picture.



2) In the tree theory, some bodies were found and flown to the morgue for cleaning and dressing, but no one knew who they were yet and the authorities were just waiting patiently for someone to be declared missing. When it became known that it was the 9 hikers (well, 5 of them at that point) from the Polytechnic, the authorities kind of panicked and sent people back to the site to stage everything and move the tent. Why? I don't get why they panicked and went back to stage the scene. Just because a tree had fallen on the hikers, why is that so terrible that "heads would roll" and authorities panicked and went to a huge amount of trouble to move the tent a mile away and stage the scene?

Thank you so much, Teddy, for writing the book and putting this theory out there for discussion.

 
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November 13, 2022, 06:24:28 AM
Reply #250
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Teddy

Administrator
The incident happened in their place of work.
XXI extraordinary congress was in its peak when the Dyatlov group died 27 January - 5 February 1959
Premier Khrushchev was personally contacted by family members of the dead. Unprecedented massive search operation rolled out. The public and families needed answers, the closest to the incident would be punished for negligence as it had happened so many times. This is how the regime is dealing with problems, a human error must to be blamed, not the party.

The Ivdel bosses could have been exposed in the middle of the mess. Body dump is very common psychology when the culprit believes he will be blamed for something he doesn't want to be involved or associated with.


 

November 13, 2022, 06:29:14 AM
Reply #251
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amashilu


Thank you! Was it okay for people hiking the area to set up their tent in the loggers' place of work? I mean, were there restrictions against that, do you know?
 

November 13, 2022, 06:57:10 AM
Reply #252
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Teddy

Administrator
I see you have the book. Read chapter 20:
Safety rules were very seldom observed in the logging camps: “...Suddenly, ten meters away, explosions began, and lumps of earth and pieces of stumps flew all around me - hurtling up and crashing like a ton of bricks. I threw myself down, curled up, and thought of only one thing – not to be hurt. It turned out that the blasting men usually loaded two or three dozen stumps, then set them on fire all at the same time, and fled themselves. They did not put up any fences or flags, since there were usually the only people in the field. And so they lit up, ran away and suddenly saw me, who had almost entered the zone of explosions on the opposite side from them...”  V.G. Aleksandrovskiy "Notes of a camp doctor"

This is exploration work. They could blow up anti-tank mines at their discretion. In a perfect world they were supposed to cut off the area where they were blowing things up but they never did since this is the end of the world, the endless taiga, uncharted territories.

In case of checking a gamma anomaly, given the limited capabilities, the works might be done with a method borrowed from the practice of the leasing system of excavation of the radioactive ore by the MVD of the USSR in 1945 48: "The works were conducted in the most primitive way – by manual short-hole drilling. Next, blasting out, collecting, and sifting chlopinite (aka hlopinite) – a pitch-black mineral containing uranium. Antimagnetic anti-tank mines weighing up to 5 kg were used as explosives."

Tertychny Vasily Nikolaevich "The first uranium ore of Transbaikalia"
"Overgrown Paths". Secret Expedition. Uranium Enchantment and copper Udokan - Vladimir Zenchenko
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 07:44:37 AM by Teddy »
 

November 13, 2022, 07:58:31 AM
Reply #253
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amashilu


I did read that, and it certainly rang true about the loggers' carelessness in a wide expanse of unpopulated taiga. I just didn't realize that the hikers had pitched their tent right smack in the area where logging was taking place. Thank you for your responses; it's all very intriguing.
 

November 13, 2022, 08:25:22 AM
Reply #254
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Teddy

Administrator
I did read that, and it certainly rang true about the loggers' carelessness in a wide expanse of unpopulated taiga. I just didn't realize that the hikers had pitched their tent right smack in the area where logging was taking place.

Not loggers but geologist, and this is the phase of exploration, not yet mining.
This metal pipe is lying 200m from the cedar, which everyone saw and didn't notice, because they didn't know what to make of it, put it in a context. Why would a geologist pipe matter?



Also everyone visiting the cedar knows of the fallen tree because it is very comfy to sit on. It is all covered with moss. And no one gave it a second thought. Further left is The cedar, further right is the dead cedar found 6m from the bodies of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko.




« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:30:56 AM by Teddy »
 

November 13, 2022, 09:07:23 AM
Reply #255
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Manti


It only occurred to me just now but wouldn't the girls have slept next to each other instead of opposite sides of the tent?



 

November 13, 2022, 09:08:57 AM
Reply #256
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Manti


Also I've never heard about the metal pipe before. It's quite significant... how was it even taken there? There is no road that leads there, right? What material is it made from? Does it show blast / shrapnel damage?



 

November 13, 2022, 09:20:49 AM
Reply #257
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Teddy

Administrator
Also I've never heard about the metal pipe before. It's quite significant... how was it even taken there? There is no road that leads there, right? What material is it made from? Does it show blast / shrapnel damage?

Everything goes by air. https://dyatlovpass.com/northern-geological-expedition
It won't show shrapnel damage because it is only brought after the blasting. This is the tool cores are extracted with. https://dyatlovpass.com/yuri-yudin#cores
 
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November 13, 2022, 09:26:43 AM
Reply #258
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Teddy

Administrator
It only occurred to me just now but wouldn't the girls have slept next to each other instead of opposite sides of the tent?
Have you seen them next or talking to each other on any photos? They were not especially close. And also grouping hikers by gender goes against the communist spirit of equality between sexes. All I know is that this order was not created to fit our theory but what their contemporaries thought was the sleep layout. It doesn't matter for our theory so I don't argue.
 
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November 13, 2022, 10:11:30 AM
Reply #259
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Charles


Hello Teodora,

This metal pipe is lying 200m from the cedar, which everyone saw and didn't notice, because they didn't know what to make of it, put it in a context. Why would a geologist pipe matter?


Are you sure the pipe was used for drilling on the site? Because before to use a pipe for drilling, there is all a scaffolding to build...

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Northern-Geological-Expedition-053.jpg

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Northern-Geological-Expedition-166.jpg

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Northern-Geological-Expedition-170.jpg

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Northern-Geological-Expedition-005.jpg

and after to disassemble and to make disappear.

Rescuers also used pipes, and of a fair size:









 

November 13, 2022, 10:23:45 AM
Reply #260
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Teddy

Administrator
Rescuers also used pipes, and of a fair size:



This is a chimney, very different from a drilling pipe.

I am not sure of anything. I haven't seen the pipe myself but after hearing my theory researchers started coming up with strange findings that might be important. If you are right the scaffolding maybe be still around. Thank you for the idea what to look for.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 10:32:47 AM by Teddy »
 
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November 13, 2022, 02:20:15 PM
Reply #261
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hi folks,

Has anyone examine the fallen tree to understand why it fell?  Was it uprooted or did the truck split, or were there any cut marks on the trunk?  I think that would be interesting to understand.

Regards

Star man
 

November 13, 2022, 08:14:24 PM
Reply #262
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Teddy

Administrator
Has anyone examine the fallen tree to understand why it fell?  Was it uprooted or did the truck split, or were there any cut marks on the trunk?  I think that would be interesting to understand.

Uprooted



 
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November 13, 2022, 11:03:10 PM
Reply #263
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Ehtnisba


Another bothersome thing is why in so many English translations from the case files there is a part of "skin found on the bark of the cedar"

I have translated the case files myself and there is no such thing.
The only place this is mentioned is Ivanov's "Mystery of the fireballs" which is written 30 years after the incident to get attention back to a cold case and he points towards extraterrestrial sources. This is what his guilty conscious about botched work amounted to: 
"On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear."

BTW, I am curious, where did you see the case files translated? To find, transcribe and translate took me years, please let me know if you have more credible sources so I can correct my publications:
Dyatlov Pass Case files volume 1
Dyatlov Pass Classified Case Files volume 2
May 1959 Radiograms
CPSU Special Reports
Maslennikov notebook 1
Maslennikov notebook 2
Weather report Burmantovo February 1959
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 1
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 2
G.K. Grigoriev "Snowstorm in the Mountains" - 3

Hi Teddy I am more interested in the answer of my first question about the ski pole present on the pictures and neighter of you with Manti paid attention to it. Is there a chance to speak on it.
For the skin is my bad memory and mixing up sources.
Let's keep to my main question which is bypassed for some reasons.
" I noticed my question already posed by another user but couldn't find an answer. The question is about the ski pole visible in the right on picture where they dig the snow (for labaz or tent). In the pictures where searchers are squating next to the tent that same ski pole is at least visibly staying in its same place as on the pics from the hikers. This is what bugs me about the staged tent. This ski pole was used against the avalanche theory many times."

Thank you!
Homo homini lupus est!
 

November 14, 2022, 07:24:50 AM
Reply #264
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Manti


I didn't ignore this but I didn't write anything because I just don't know. I don't know what they are doing on the photo. They aren't digging a labaz because the previous day they wrote in the diary that it's unthinkable to set up a labaz in the open windy snowfields, although the area they were in that day was a bit to the East but the tent site (where it was found), is even worse.

So maybe they are setting up a tent? But then the fallen tree theory is already out of question. Or maybe they have already been the victim of an avalanche, while skiing, and they are trying to dig someone out?

Regarding the ski pole, is it really the same one and in the same position? I had the impression that the skis and ski poles on the photo from the search are the searcher's equipment that they placed there when they set about to dig out the tent. If you are right and it's the Dyatlov group's ski pole, then again both the staged tent and also the avalanche theories are out of question and we're back to square one. Although, nothing wrong with that.

----

I want to add that personally I have a problem with the tent being set up on the slope, not because I believe in the staged scene theory, but because I don't think it was a suitable site to camp. I know this is not convincing to many people but based on my experience in somewhat similar places and weather, and adding in the fact that they weren't properly equipped, they didn't have sleeping bags, didn't have a waterproof tent (which matters because if its above 0C in the tent, the snow falling on it will melt and the last thing you want is wet blankets because of the dripping meltwater), didn't even have coats appropriate for the weather, didn't have enough drinking water with them, enough firewood for the stove to last the night, etc etc... I think it was borderline unsurvivable just to camp there.

The forest helps dampen the wind, and windchill matters a lot. It gives firewood and the streams provide drinking water. This was either their first night (on this trip) camping outside the forest and they paid for this decision dearly, or I don't know how the tent got there...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 07:34:59 AM by Manti »



 

November 14, 2022, 02:15:28 PM
Reply #265
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Has anyone examine the fallen tree to understand why it fell?  Was it uprooted or did the truck split, or were there any cut marks on the trunk?  I think that would be interesting to understand.

Uprooted




Thanks Teddy.  It all seems to fit together.  So does this mean that the cedar was the actual camp site?  The tent was pitched close by it, and the fallen tree landed on top of the tent?

Regards

Star man
 

November 14, 2022, 05:53:57 PM
Reply #266
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Manti



  So does this mean that the cedar was the actual camp site?  The tent was pitched close by it, and the fallen tree landed on top of the tent?

Regards

Star man
Read the book to find out!  lol4



 

November 14, 2022, 10:36:52 PM
Reply #267
Online

Teddy

Administrator
I noticed my question already posed by another user but couldn't find an answer.
No idea what are you talking about. You need to either cite or repeat what the question is.

The question is about the ski pole visible in the right on picture where they dig the snow (for labaz or tent). In the pictures where searchers are squating next to the tent that same ski pole is at least visibly staying in its same place as on the pics from the hikers. This is what bugs me about the staged tent. This ski pole was used against the avalanche theory many times.
I guess you are referring to these two photos, I see the following ski poles, and I still don't know what you questions is.
Which pole? Is it the same pole? I have no comment why skiers thrust their ski poles upside down in the snow. Maybe because this is the only way they can stand. Remember that the photo of the searchers is made 2 days after it was found. The tent has already been handled a lot.
I do not see anything to comment on because I don't see anything out of place.



 

November 15, 2022, 03:10:51 AM
Reply #268
Online

Charles


Hello Teodora,

By the way, if the local authorities made all that circus to hide an accident, a purely accidental event that took place in a taiga where thousands of trees fall each winter because of freeze, snow and storms... why did L.N. Ivanov made his hysterical statement in 1990?

I mean, according to your theory, for once the soviet authorities didn't kill anybody. Why is the forgery of Ivanov's resolution to close the case ("considering the absence of external injuries") still up to date in 1990 when the same Ivanov made death threats in his public statement ("Someone needed to frighten or punish people, or show their strength, and they did this, killing three people.")? And why the new investigation in 2019 still had to be a parody of investigation? For such a minor event? If we compare with the mass graves of "12 kilometer" in Yekaterinenburg or "Zolotaya Gora" in Chelyabinsk filled with the corpses of tens of thousands of Russians? If we compare with the action of the people who used psychiatric hospitals to repress dissidents? There was a plaque at a place belonging to the NKVD where many Russians were shot in the head, the plaque was reading "in memory of the innocent people killed in this place"... the plaque was stolen in the 2000s and replaced with a new plaque not mentioning "innocent people killed"... They say the first plaque was "offensive to the security services"...

But in Dyatlov's case, according to your theory, dear Teodora, nobody was murdered... In 1989, the mass grave of Zolotaya Gora was opened in Chelyabinsk...

https://www.sakharov-center.ru/article/zolotaa-gora-bez-saharova

https://therussianreader.com/2018/09/03/historical-amnesia-in-chelyabinsk/

It was a much more serious issue than the accountability of local authorities for the fall of trees in winter in the taiga, and in Chelyabinsk they had to face it.

If Ivdel local authorities feared for their position because of a falling tree accident in the taiga, these authorities were sort of victims... They were forced to behave absurdly because of fear, the poor men... They had such a sense of commitment and accountability, such high morals, they panicked and did stupid things... So why cover up their silly but innocent actions 60 years after the event? I think that if the KGB had such "crimes" in stock, they would promote them... not hide them. Because for once, the excuse of "mistakes were made" would be correct. If your theory was true, the security services could say: "Voilà ! Here is the proof that mistakes were actually made". According to your theory, it was really just mistake, not a murder... so why the cover up after 60 years?

« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 07:13:46 AM by Charles »
 

November 15, 2022, 03:33:37 AM
Reply #269
Online

Charles


That is to say, local Ivdel authorities, authorities of Sverdlovsk and the higher state authorities conspired to make an accident look like an accident? According to your theory, dear Teodora, it was an accident - not a nuclear accident but a tree falling in winter in the taiga, and the prosecutors received the order from Urakov and a higher level to close the case and "to tell the families it was an accident"? The higher authorities had to give the order to tell to the families that a tree falling in the taiga was an accident? And the state authorities hid that truth during 60 years?

Is it correct?

I still don't understand how NKVD/KGB/MVD executives ruling a 15,000 inmates forced labor camps complex could be threatened by the accidental death of hikers under a fallen tree in the taiga.

And how could these executives be so unable to correctly assess the strength of their positions, given the fact that in the end they were backed by the whole system and not sacked? For them, the system made a forgery of the resolution to close the case... Do you really think that Prodanov, V.A. Ivanov, Grachev, etc. were so unaware of their precise position in the social hierarchy of their time? Because in the end, your own theory has to take into account this fact, they were actually untouchable. Wasn't it easier just to sack a foreman or any low rank scapegoat and forget about the incident?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 11:51:21 AM by Charles »
 
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