Theories Discussion > Altercation on the pass

The refutation of only one thing that destroys the theory of a quarrel!

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Jean Daniel Reuss:


--- Quote from: 20vvk07 on January 14, 2021, 05:17:30 AM ---....................................
What is CLEAR FOR ME PERSONALLY:
1. No one in the group belittled anyone, we just looked at it from a different angle.
2. The relationship in the group was good.
3. But... Kolevatov's birthday in the fall, and then winter! How so?
Again, to hell with that theory for now.
There is such a thing as"Second birthday","Second time born". What does it mean?
This is the day when a person was on the verge of life and death, and miraculously survived.
A. Kolevatov - a child of war, maybe what happened in childhood that could kill him, and when he survived-he was "born a second time".
That's all, share your opinion in the comments! thanky1

--- End quote ---

It is rather Semyon Alekseevich Zolotaryov (Born on 2 Feb 1921), who can be qualified as a child of war since he was integrated in the Soviet army from October 1941 to May 1946. And all those who have an idea, even fuzzy, of what could be the Eastern Front are very impressed !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

Aleksander Sergeevich Kolevatov  (Born on 16 Nov 1934) was an arguably bright student of nuclear physics, he was a 4th year student as a Physics Major at the UPI University.

In my opinion, the episode of the sharing of the tangerine as well as the manner in which Kolevatov's birthday or anniversary is related are irrelevant to the resolution of the DPI problem.

I think that Eduard Tumanov himself, who since the post of April 08, 2019 - (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0) - has intervened several times in Russian TV shows now agrees with the expression : "the hikers took part in a fight, againt outsiders."

 Consequently, the reasons for the transformation of Dubinina's mood is an important purely psychological element which is closely connected with the arrival of the (probably) trinome of attackers on the slope of the Kholat, Syakhl on the evening of 1 February 1959.
See :
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.0



--- Quote from: mk on January 16, 2021, 07:25:23 AM --- Reply #2
Yes, I've never put stock in the theories that the hikers fought amongst themselves.  There may have been arguments, disagreements, tiffs, or even quarrels, but only children allow disagreements to turn into fistfights.  Their very survival depended on working together, and they knew this well. 

The members of the hike had to apply to join the hike, and then had to be accepted.  The team must contain people who work well together and who could follow the leader's instructions.  Dyatlov had a hand in choosing the members; having been on hikes with them before, he would have a good sense for the interpersonal dynamics at play. 

This, I believe, is one reason Lyuda writes that they didn't really want Zolotaryov to join the group: no one knew him.  Everyone else knew each other; they knew what the group dynamics would be; they had a good idea of how the interactions would play out.  A new person in the mix could make it awkward.  Zolotaryov, however, seems to have been agreeable enough not to make problems for anyone.

Whatever caused the tragedy, it wasn't a fight amongst themselves.

--- End quote ---

Congratulations mk, this is very well said and explained in few words.



--- Quote from: 20vvk07 on January 14, 2021, 05:17:30 AM ---Hello, dear friends! I use Google Translate, so there may be some stupid mistakes.

--- End quote ---

On the internet you can find several free machine translation programs that seem fairly adequate for the translation and the theme.

Personally I use  DeepL for various European languages: French, English, Russian, German, Polish, Romanian, Czech...
https://www.deepl.com/translator

But I do not understand the little round yellow hieroglyphs that sometimes appear in some posts.

grin1 kewl1 nea1 wink1 tongue2 quiet1 shock1 whist1 lol1 lol2 clap1 explode1 cry2 dance1 dunno1 lalala1 loco1 bat1 nose1 thanky1 okey1 whacky1 thumb1 neg1 vroom1 bang1  bow7 twitch7 excuseme bigjoke lol4


--- Code: ---grin1 kewl1 nea1 wink1 tongue2 quiet1 shock1 whist1 lol1 lol2 clap1 explode1 cry2 dance1 dunno1 lalala1 loco1 bat1 nose1 thanky1 okey1 whacky1 thumb1 neg1 vroom1 bang1  bow7 twitch7 excuseme bigjoke lol4
--- End code ---
       ???

ElizabethHarris:
I think it's perfectly natural for friends to get a bit sick of each other after a few days. I think Ludye just needed some space and they let her have it. She was said to be a bit moody so that could be why but there is nothing sinister about this.

Jean Daniel Reuss:


--- Quote from: ElizabethHarris on January 07, 2022, 10:18:16 AM ---                                 Reply #6

I think it's perfectly natural for friends to get a bit sick of each other after a few days. I think Ludye just needed some space and they let her have it. She was said to be a bit moody so that could be why but there is nothing sinister about this.

--- End quote ---

This argument could be valid after 3 months, (for example in a crew of 9 people locked in a small boat during a long cruise at sea), but seems to me unrealistic in the present case, that is to say after only 3 days of a trip which was not monotonous.

Reminders.

• January 23 : We're on the road again!.........And here we are on the train. We sang all the songs that we know, learned new ones,.......
• January 24 : .......We arrived in Serov (town). We traveled with Blinov group.....And then Yuri Krivo started a song, the cops grabbed him and took him away....... In the interval between 1st and 2nd shifts in school we organized meeting with pupils. The room crammed with so many curious children....
• January 25 : .......................When we arrived at ? turn the bus went to a village and had to return for us in an hour.
We continue on foot. It was so nice to walk along the road in such good weather. ...
• January 26 : We slept in so-called hotel.............We did not boil water in the morning, wood was damp.......We negotiated to go to Settlement 41 by a truck.
.......In Settlement 41 we were greeted warmly, they gave us a separate room in the hostel. We talked a lot with the local workers....

Dubinina was demanding of strict observance of moral prescriptions for others as well as for herself

See for instance sabine :
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg5845#msg5845
.......she seems to have been well organized and honest to a fault. Since she was the treasurer of the expedition this would've served her well. And according to her own assessment she couldn't hold her tongue and didn't hesitate to speak her mind......."

Under normal conditions, even if she had felt a "bad mood", she would have had the mental strength to control herself and not let it show.

Like Yuri Yudin, who, although not very severely affected by his condition since he was able to return on his own apparently without difficulty, preferred not to go on the hike on 28 January, so as not to risk slowing down the group.

And yet dubinina had written :

• January 25...The mood sank. In general, I am very, very sad.
• January 26... Mood is bad and probably will be for two more days. Evil as hell.

This is a very important clue, psychological in nature, which cannot be eluded, and which is discussed :

Here:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.0
An here :
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1031.0

( Indeed, according to the TOKEB theory, it is in Vizhay that the clash took place which provoked the decision of the merciless and sadistic massacre of the 9 hikers).

Charles:
Hello Jean Daniel Reuss


--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on February 01, 2022, 03:49:41 PM ---

--- Quote from: ElizabethHarris on January 07, 2022, 10:18:16 AM ---                                 Reply #6

I think it's perfectly natural for friends to get a bit sick of each other after a few days. I think Ludye just needed some space and they let her have it. She was said to be a bit moody so that could be why but there is nothing sinister about this.

--- End quote ---

This argument could be valid after 3 months, (for example in a crew of 9 people locked in a small boat during a long cruise at sea), but seems to me unrealistic in the present case, that is to say after only 3 days of a trip which was not monotonous.

--- End quote ---

The argument was valid even before the hike started, since Zina Kolmogorova letter to Lidiya Grigoryeva of January 22, 1959 :

"The group is ok, I don't know how will it be the moment we go. Will we quarrel. After all, Kolevatov is with us."

Zina anticipated quarrel and it seems a scapegoat was already named.

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