Theories Discussion > Wolverine
Wolverine
Ziljoe:
This is from Igor b's links that he posted. Translated to English , so there might be some errors. If you use his links directly you will see the photos, references to medical research and sourced information. It should be of interest to those that favour outsiders using a gas grenade also , or force. The dilated pupils are another example of how some sort of toxins were involved, please enjoy this rather detailed explanation and research by Igor b.
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Four of the top five tourists (Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Slobodin, Dyatlov) had dilated pupils. Only in Kolmogorova the state of the pupils is not described. (For obvious reasons, the state of the pupils is not described in the four found in the stream, so we are not talking about them).
10 years ago, questions of statistics of signs of death from hypothermia interested an expert from Khabarovsk Rybalkin R.V.:
"On the frequency of occurrence and probability of signs of death from cold"
http://www.forens-med.ru/book.php?id=1891
He did a great job of studying 100 cases of death from cold and freezing.
Interesting things have come to light. For example, it turned out that the “pose of a chilled person”, which was considered almost mandatory for a frozen person, was met only in 2% of cases.
But the main thing is the pupils. Of the 100 examined, 13 were sober and all had constricted pupils. 87 of the frozen ones were drunk and they all had dilated pupils.
Thus, if the cause of death is freezing and the person was sober, the pupils will definitely be constricted (100%).
The examination established the absence of alcohol among tourists. And according to a number of other signs and evidence of Yu. Yudin, there is no reason to doubt their sobriety. Then the most likely cause of dilated pupils is the preliminary poisoning of tourists.
There is still no doubt about freezing as the cause of death. This is indicated by the main, "reinforced concrete" signs of freezing observed in the dead:
Cerebral edema 99%
Juiciness, plethora of the soft integument of the skull 91%
Plethora of heart cavities 95%
Lungs on a dark red section 98%
Vishnevsky's spots 95%
But the version with a certain chemical effect, as the cause initiating the tragedy, receives weighty evidence.
The rest of the versions are inconsistent, because. cannot make pupils dilated when they should be narrow .
Why did the medical examiner overlook this?
The forensic expert Vozrozhdenny could experience a lack of information and accumulated statistical data on this issue at that time.
Modern "invited" experts - because of the lack of practice in this particular type of expertise.
There may be misconceptions that the pupils of the frozen were dilated, allegedly due to darkness. This is not true.
Pupils cease to react to light at the last stage of freezing, even during life. After death, the width of the pupils is controlled by completely different processes.
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The pupils are constricted, do not react to light.
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The reaction to light is sharply weakened or lost.
The pupils do not care - it is dark or light, the eyelids are open or closed, however, in sober people they will be narrowed in 100% of cases, and in drunken people they will be expanded in 100% of cases.
Lighting conditions do not affect this attribute. Otherwise, it would turn out that all drunk people always freeze only in the dark, and all sober people always only in the light.
Returning to the question of abnormally dilated pupils in those who are frozen sober:
It is safe to say that the answer to the death of the Dyatlovites lies in the cause of dilated pupils .
And the pupils are really very dilated:
( In Igor's b link there is a photo of the dilated eye pupil of Dyatolv)
100% the presence of constricted pupils in frozen sober people was confirmed in another work:
"Death from hypothermia" V.P. Desyatov, 1977
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In the corpses of persons who died from cooling while sober, the pupils, according to our observations, turned out to be constricted, while in the case of severe intoxication preceding death, the pupils were dilated in 59%.
In this case, not even all drunks had dilated pupils. Apparently 41% of drunks with narrow pupils were slightly drunk.
But the tourists weren't drunk at all.
First, the medical examiner revived established the absence of alcohol.
Secondly, in the same work by Desyatov, the difference between sober and drunkards is indicated by the color of the mucous membrane of the eyelids:
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On non-frozen corpses of persons who died of cold sober, the mucous membrane of the eyelids in all cases was pale pink.
The forensic expert Vozrozhdenny described the color of the mucous membrane of the eyelids only in three: Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Kolmogorova.
Doroshenko:
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... the pupils are dilated , the mucous membrane of the eyelids is pale pink .
Krivonischenko:
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... the pupils are dilated , the mucous membrane of the eyelids is pale gray .(in this case, the pale gray color can be caused by the so-called "weathering", because Krivonischenko was lying face up and was almost not covered with snow)
Kolmogorov:
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The mucous membrane of the eyelids is reddish in color.
No blueness.
The reason for the expansion of the pupils could be the wolverine's chemical weapon:
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Sometimes the cause of mydriasis (dilated pupils) can be hidden in acute poisoning of the body and its intoxication. And the development of dilated pupils is largely facilitated by the conditions of a professional activity related to the use of toxic chemicals.
Charles:
nothing here
Ziljoe:
--- Quote from: Charles on June 26, 2022, 06:41:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---Action must be taken.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but not suicide.
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---If it was seen as a medical issue and they were concerned about what was taking place, it would be logical to seek water and shelter?
--- End quote ---
Not logical if in winter on the slope of Kholyat Syakhl... or else logic kills...
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM --- we don't know if the gas you experienced was the same chemicals as what the hikers experienced.
--- End quote ---
Contemporary chemical industry is likely to perform as good as wolverines.
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---you say you were pretending not to feel any harm which would imply you felt harm?
--- End quote ---
Of course it was very unpleasant, but funny at the same time, like the two Canadians laughing after being sprayed by a skunk.
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---you were at a riot suffering harm to Impress women, how noble?????
--- End quote ---
I wrote "young" and "stupid"... )))
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---Because that's a real turn on I'm sure? Darwinism at its finest.....
--- End quote ---
Yes, it was Darwinian, and it was fascinating to observe. And I am even sure that some of these young people got married and now have families. Having the same political convictions and meeting on the barricades is much more romantic than using an app on a smartphone. "Daddy, mommy, how did you meet? On the barricades, honey!" will always be nicer than "Through Tinder"...
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---you do reference, lust, desire, sex , women's thighs etc in most of your ever changing hypothesis.
--- End quote ---
In the hypothesis of internal strife in group of young people or in the hypothesis of conflict between two groups of young people, knowing the presence of two girls in the middle, yes, these parameters have to be included. I think now of an hypothesis not related to conflict and therefore there is no desire, no envy, no jealousy in the sketch.
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 05:33:27 PM ---If your eyes are burning and there's muck in your throat and lungs what do you drink or rinse if everything is snow?
--- End quote ---
Our body has a special ability called "crying", designed to rinse our eyes in such cases.
Greetings
--- End quote ---
It would be suicide to take no action and stand away from the tent , on a slope doing nothing. They may have feared blindness or breathing issues.
The logic is they could not go back to the tent in fear of making their symptoms worse.
Contemporary chemicals vairy depending on their use. But if a gas grenade ,skunk or Wolverine spray was to happen in a small tent with 9 people it is logical to exit the tent quickly. You would not be prepared for it and laughing might be in short supply.
It may have been funny for you but not for all those involved in your riot. There is laughing but it is a skunk and a controlled environment where people know what's going. Change the scenario to the confines of a tent, miles from safety and unsure if this chemical will do long-term harm.
You write "young" and "stupid" , I know you are not one of these things.
Crying may help, but how long would it take for it to resolve the effects, to eyes, lungs throat? Do they take the risk just sitting away from the tent in the cold till it maybe goes away?
Игорь Б.:
--- Quote from: Игорь Б. on June 26, 2022, 04:19:02 PM ---Ключевой факт происшествия - расширенные зрачки.
--- End quote ---
Второй ключевой факт - жёлто-оранжевые пятна на одежде:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=52683
Причём известны свойства этих пятен - они нерастворимы в воде и вызывают экзему:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=57656
Интересно, что это за вещество?
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=52636
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=61059
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=73650
--- Quote ---Wolverines can produce a foul smelling yellow fluid from anal scent glands.
--- End quote ---
https://www.planetdeadly.com/animals/wolverine-facts-or-wolverine-kill-man
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 06:34:41 PM --- Reply #55
This is from Igor b's links that he posted. Translated to English ,
..............................................
Four of the top five tourists (Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Slobodin, Dyatlov) had dilated pupils.
...................................................
Rybalkin R.V.:
"On the frequency of occurrence and probability of signs of death from cold"
...........................................
It is safe to say that the answer to the death of the Dyatlovites lies in the cause of dilated pupils .
...............................................
--- End quote ---
@ Ziljoe : I warmly thank you for your work in translating and summarising Igor B.'s arguments in support of the wolverine theory.
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133
For my poor mental capacity, 112 web pages and 2232 posts in Russian is already a long time to study, but more:
A number of arguments are in image format and therefore cannot be copied and pasted into an automatic translator.
A number of posts give links to other websites in Russian.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°The death of the hickers does not fall within the scope of the cases studied by Rybalkin R.V. :
According to my theories TOK** (Tumanov - Oestmoen - Kandr - others),
the death of the 4 considered hikers is not mainly caused by the cold, but by the tremendous blunt object blows which sends them in a deep coma. In this state of deep coma, i.e. near death, the phenomenon of the dilated pupils does not occur because all the cerebral functioning is disturbed (and perhaps may be compared to that of a dead drunk person).
If they had been immediately treated in a hospital, these 4 hickers might have survived without disability, but this is not even sure.
Afterwards of course the bodies freeze (then thaw) but the cold action plays a secondary role in giving real symptoms of apparent cold death.
The violence of the tremendous blunt object blows is not assessable at autopsy because the attackers' blunt objects were wrapped in rag padding carefully sewn onto the birch wood. In other words, brain damage can be significant without any skull fractures.
The habit of rag-wrapped blunt objects originated with some trappers who wanted to sell rare and valuable skins (such as those of wolverines) without the skins being damaged by a bullet hole (and thus losing some of their high value).
The rag stuffing provided by the attackers was not intended to deceive the autopsy. It was to provide a deadly but silent weapon; essential to the success of the attackers' gun-free tactics.
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on June 26, 2022, 07:05:03 PM --- Reply #57
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The logic is they could not go back to the tent in fear of making their symptoms worse.
.........................
Change the scenario to the confines of a tent, miles from safety and unsure if this chemical will do long-term harm.
.........................
--- End quote ---
Indeed, the exit from the tent can perfectly well be explained by the entry of a curious wolverine.
This is a solution which is in accordance with what I call the Anatoliy Stepochkin axiom :
They launched a kind of dope inside (they = wolverine)
There is a very large number of chemical devices that can make the atmosphere inside a small tent almost instantly unbreathable.
When I was young, and as stupid and stubborn in error as I am now, I made suffocating jars of SO² according to the reaction :
2 ClO³K + 3 S ---> 3 SO² + 2 ClK
but in the open air and always on the right side of the wind !
At that time one could buy for cheap kilograms of potassium chlorate and sulphur in flower (powdered sulphur) in the big drugstores.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chlorate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°Strange behaviour of this wolverine who usually finds her meat reserves hidden in the snow for several weeks and who does not come back to the tent after a few days to finish her meal when the smell of her toxic spray has been attenuated (since it is imperceptible to humans at the end of February)..
For me the decisive point is that Igor B's wolverine theory can only explain one part of the DPI: the exit from the tent and the descent to the cedar.
For the rest, i.e. the death of the nine, no one should evade Ockham's razor which favours theories that include the action of human attackers determined to leave no survivors.
In a nutshell and in the spirit of Vladimir Askinadzi (https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi?filter_page=4&rbid=18461), I could assertively say;
- I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force, no falls on rocks, no snow collapses can explain the death of these nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions, even while vomiting and weakened by the terrifying spray of a volverine as they had been able to stand and walk several metres on a slippery slope.
Well, again, all these very simply explainable injuries....
Ask me. I do not know everything. But little by little, thanks to the many debates that I can read on this website and others, the "HOW", "WHO" and "WHY" questions are becoming clearer and the vice is tightening around the image of the attackers.
Just look and think calmly about these facts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/death
https://dyatlovpass.com/injuries?filter_page=2&rbid=18461
There are none so deaf as those who do not want to hear.
There are none so blind as those who do not want to see and who keep their eyes wide shut.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°To explain the exit from the tent and the descent to the cedar, the idea of the wolverine's chemical weapon intervention can be harmoniously incorporated into my TOK** theories according to two fairly similar scenarios (your choice):
Scenario N° 1A wolverine tamed in the manner of a performing dog has been trained to enter shelters that its(her ?) master designates.
The master (attacker) pointing to the tent: Go on, dear, there's plenty to eat there.
In case of difficulty or defensive reaction in the shelter, the wolverine sprays spontaneously and returns unharmed to its master (who can reward it(her) with a good piece of pork).
The wolverine can be transported from North-2 to the tent, either on human back or using a reindeer, in a comfortable basket.
Moreover, the idea of using trained animals is not original. Here is a military example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
Scenario N° 2Siberian trappers collect glandular fluid from several wolverines (possibly for several years) and then sell it to the attackers
Then it is easy with a large syringe and a hose to build a device to silently and quietly spray a large amount of toxic liquid inside the 5 m³ tent.
The result is not debatable: the surprised hikers immediately go out in an irrational way, suffocating and vomiting.
Then it is likely that the hikers themselves decide to go down to the cedar tree to shelter from the wind and light a fire, which they apparently did
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°But after .... the intervention of human attackers absolutely determined to take the lives of the 9 hikers constitutes the core of my TOK** theories.
All these variants have in common that there was no staging, or even attempted staging, on the Kholat Syakhl slope in early February 1959.
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