The radioactive trace on the Dyatlov Pass

[GlennM]

Much is being made of the question of radioactive contamination, I suppose this is meant to indicate some sort of military test, or accident. Lets say it does. Radiation should be found in the environment where the clothes were found as a function of radioactive decay. It would be widespread.I recall that during the initial search and during latter day investigations, radiation detection gear was used. It produced nothing that raised an alarm then or now. Lets take a wild ride and imagine some isotope was made in the USSR and was going to buy freedom for the hikers with the CIA. Do we really believe this is something to be carried around in a pocket? Do we really believe radio technicians got this material from their comrades in the reactor?  I'll bet radium for glow in the dark watches, clocks and the like was easier to come by.

My suspicion is that the rescuers had the detection equipment on hand as prospectors. They might have been curious to know if any in the group were prospecting too...for souvenier mineral samples.

[gunmat]

Agreed. I'm not sure if it was done intentionally, but the hype around radioactivity distracts attention from other more obvious things. You've mentioned murder, outlining a motive that stands on its own. I'll comment on this later. In my opinion, the "mystery" of radioactivity should be taken off the table and archived under the label "just for educational purposes".

[Teddy]

I solicited an opinion from someone who is currently a NPP safety consultant. She read the criminal case and responded but does not want her name to be mentioned:
=======================
XX: It is difficult to draw a conclusions. There is not enough information. Did the students have classes and exercises in nuclear physics? In those years, the rules were not very strict and it is possible that they got infected in the laboratories.
It's a pity they didn't do an isotopic analysis. Just beta contamination, more like work/test/experiment contamination. We o not know exactly what the radioactive material is, for example, Cs-137 (cesium) or another substance - strontium.
Teddy: The one the contaminated clothes belong to was a nuclear physics student (Kolevatov).
XX: Perhaps he contaminated the rest.
Teddy: But only his clothes were contaminated, he and one more participant who worked on Chelyabinsk-40 when there was an accident (Krivonischenko).
XX: Most likely, this is the reason. In those years, there were still no such strict rules for safe work with radioactive substances.

[GlennM]

It reduces to three possibilities 1. They brought it with them ( from work or school) 2. They acquired it from the environment ( prospecting and naturally radioactive environmental exposure 3. They were contaminated from radioactive fallout. Of the three scenarios, only the third, radioactive fallout links to a reason the ended up as they did. There is nothing in the record indicating widespread radioactive contamination in the area then or now. No rocket debris has been identified. I submit the whole matter of radiation, geiger counters and suspicious death is a red herring.

[Axelrod]

XX: We do not know exactly what the radioactive material is, for example, Cs-137 (cesium)

I am gradudte of Moscow Intitute of physics and technology, .
It so happened that on the first day of my first year, September 1, at 8 pm, I was writing a test in nuclear physics. but a was working as phogrammer in Multimedia Technologies. Therefore, I am familiar with this situation only from old memory.

When researching this situation, espacialy in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137 i see

Caesium-137 has a half-life of about 30.05 years.[1] About 94.6% decays by beta emission to a metastable nuclear isomer of barium: barium-137m (137mBa, Ba-137m). The remainder directly populates the ground state of 137Ba, which is stable. Barium-137m has a half-life of about 153 seconds, and is responsible for all of the gamma ray emissions in samples of 137Cs. Barium-137m decays to the ground state by emission of photons having energy 0.6617 MeV.[8] A total of 85.1% of 137Cs decay generates gamma ray emission in this manner.

Now lets' see https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377
Sheet 373
Alpha particles and gamma quants were not detected.

So, Cesium 137 is not suitable for this situation.

[GlennM]

Again, radioactivity was, in miniscule amounts detected on them, not in them. This is not central to the question of their demise. It is a distraction. The discussion is a learned one though.

[KathleenDSmith1]

Everyone and Teddy:

Found this article/images in Google :Historic Images Part Number: mjc18542.....sending an image but not a photo...when click on this 'EBAY" will not allow to copied image.   Maybe this part number or if you could the images can help you with "What might had happened"


Thanks
Kathleen Dee Smith

[Teddy]

Found this article/images in Google :Historic Images Part Number: mjc18542.....sending an image but not a photo...when click on this 'EBAY" will not allow to copied image.

The link is https://www.ebay.com/itm/354924328840
Right click, Save image as

[Teddy]

I solicited an opinion from someone who is currently a NPP safety consultant. She read the criminal case and responded but does not want her name to be mentioned:
=======================
XX: It is difficult to draw a conclusions. There is not enough information. Did the students have classes and exercises in nuclear physics? In those years, the rules were not very strict and it is possible that they got infected in the laboratories.
It's a pity they didn't do an isotopic analysis. Just beta contamination, more like work/test/experiment contamination. We o not know exactly what the radioactive material is, for example, Cs-137 (cesium) or another substance - strontium.
Teddy: The one the contaminated clothes belong to was a nuclear physics student (Kolevatov).
XX: Perhaps he contaminated the rest.
Teddy: But only his clothes were contaminated, he and one more participant who worked on Chelyabinsk-40 when there was an accident (Krivonischenko).
XX: Most likely, this is the reason. In those years, there were still no such strict rules for safe work with radioactive substances.

Askinadzi answered me in a private mail. He browsed our forum and said that a lot of information needs correction and/or revision. He is still more comfortable giving me his comments in mails and I will post (translate) them for you.
===========================
Да, нам читали курс «Ядерная физика» (для информации – нам читали девять (!!) разных физик), однако никаких практических или лабораторных работ не было.
Следует учитывать, что Кривонищенко был строителем, он не работал на основном производстве. Авария произошла в 1957 году, к 1959 году было проведено несколько актов дезактивации территории «Маяка». Уровень радиации снизили практически до естественного.

Я внимательно прочитал размышления Игоря Павлова и полностью согласен с ним.
«Поэтому измерить или увидеть что-то на образцах, которые подверглись облучению в принципе невозможно (естественно, пока не начались симптомы лучевой болезни).
Когда говорится о гистологических образцах, я это понимаю, как образцы человеческих органов, подготовленные для гистологического исследования. Т.е. тонкие срезы для исследования под микроскопом. В УД есть результаты гистологических исследований для последней четверки.
Левашов исследовал не гистологические образцы (в понимании выше), а золу от образцов человеческих тканей. Т.е формально это не есть образцы для гистологических исследований. Гистологические образцы не передавались на радиометрическую экспертизу.
Исследования Левашова установили факт незначительного радиоактивного загрязнения образцов человеческих тканей. Это значит, что каким-то образом изотопы оказались в образцах = в организме человека».
 
А теперь моё мнение о проблеме радиоактивности.
Иванов затребовал исследование на радиоактивность, проявив инициативность и не согласовывая это ни с кем. Левашов ответил на его любопытство. Но специалисты, которые тогда понимали результаты лучше Иванова, объяснили ему, что он получил «мыльный пузырь». Этим всё дело и кончилось. Если бы были получены значимые результаты, то дальнейшие исследования, более глубокие, непременно бы были продолжены. А так, зашили результаты в дело, засекретили всё дело…и успокоились на долгие годы. А поисковики в лихом азарте стали сочинять небылицы, что делают и до сих пор!
===========================
Yes, we had "Nuclear Physics" course (for information, we were taught by nine (!!) different physicists), but there was no practical or laboratory work.
It should be taken into account that Krivonischenko was a builder; he did not work in the main production. The accident occurred in 1957; by 1959, several acts of decontamination of the Mayak territory had been carried out. The radiation level was reduced almost to natural levels.

I carefully read Igor Pavlov’s thoughts and completely agree with him.
"Therefore, it is in principle impossible to measure or see anything on samples that have been exposed to radiation (naturally, until symptoms of radiation sickness begin).
When we refer to histological samples, I understand this as samples of human organs prepared for histological examination. These are thin sections for examination under a microscope. The case files contain the results of histological studies for the last four.
Levashov did not examine histological samples (as understood above), but ash from human tissue samples. That is, formally these are not samples for histological studies. Histological samples were not submitted for radiometric examination.
Levashov's studies established the fact of minor radioactive contamination of human tissue samples. This means that somehow the isotopes ended up in the samples = in the human body."
 
And now my opinion about the radioactive contamination.
Ivanov requested a radioactivity test, showing initiative and without coordinating this with anyone. Levashov answered his curiosity. But the specialists, who then understood the results better than Ivanov, explained to him that he had received "soap bubble" (meaning nothing of importance). That was the end of the matter. If significant results had been obtained, then further, deeper studies would certainly have been continued. And so, they filed the results into the case, classified the whole matter... and cooled down for many years. And the searchers, in their wild excitement, began to invent fables, which they still do to this day!

[Ziljoe]

Excellent teddy, say thanks to Askinadzi.

I think many fables have been made. Even the story of the clothes glowing which lead to the said tests didn't make sense. 

[Teddy]

I think many fables have been made. Even the story of the clothes glowing which lead to the said tests didn't make sense.

This is funny borderline insane.

[Ziljoe]

This is how rumours start , It's from :

Interview with Stanislav Evgenievich Bogomolov, author of the article "Mystery of the fireballs", published in the "Uralskiy Rabochiy" (en. Ural Worker) in 1990 on July 8

Lev Ivanov in your article says that he brought Geiger counter to the pass. In personal communication with you, did Lev Ivanov tell you who told him, indicated or otherwise hinted to bring a Geiger counter to the pass and measure the level of radiation? Quote from your article:
"I did not work out the version about the light balls. I only managed to conduct a radiation examination. Even had to carry on location a device in a large wooden box.
- Geiger counter?
- Yes, it looks like it. It was clicking a lot... I am sure there was radiation. But nobody told me how much, and I didn't found out."

Answer
"No, he did not say anything about why he decided to check their clothes for radiation. He changed the topic. Much later, almost this year, I learned from a lawyer, that another lawyer told him that Ivanov ordered this examination because he noticed how the hikers' clothes which lay on his floor in his office were glowing."

[Axelrod]

It is possible that it was not the clothes that glowed, but the compass or clock hands

[GlennM]

" Soap bubble", a clever use of the language. I like it. A geiger counter was at hand. Why not use it, if for no other reason than to pass a few idle moments, or appear to be thorough? Then again, by using the detector on human remains, it is natural for someone in authority to question why. That, in and of itself, produces answers and poses a question which is going to make things worse for all concerned. Even now, six decades later, the soap bubble has not popped. It was Nature, not Man made radioactive substances that precipitated the tragedy.

[Axelrod]

It was Nature, not Man made radioactive substances that precipitated the tragedy.

With the same success we can say - my wife did not cheat on me!

[GlennM]

Another clever saying