Okay, what is the chance that the sequence of events was like this?
Because it is more or less clear that military activity has always been present in this area of tragedy. For now, according to the parameters of the criminal profile, it is very likely that the gentleman who claimed at a press conference June 26 in Yekaterinburg this year that it was the rocket, was not lying. For everyone else at the conference is more likely to claim that they acting in the interests of some higher interest.
Maybe the missile was fired anyway for testing purposes and not by mistake. And that military observers were present on the slope at that time. Because access to the slope by helicopter is not so difficult. And that it was these military observers who lit a fire and built a shelter (den). But then something went wrong with the testing, possibly an unforeseen explosion that in some way damaged the Dyatlov group. And things went from bad to worse. The army, however, had to clean up and cover up the incident.
Mr Tumanov's statement that the injuries on the corpses (that they were tied up, the impact and other injuries ...) nevertheless indicate the presence of an unknown perpetrator (human) cannot be overlooked.
And what if Dyatlov group never left the tent at all. What if they were injured by a powerful hitwave explode1 of some sort of testing rocket. And that this was the only reason why are some were badly dressed. Because they were already injured and unable to dress and put on their shoes. Some were injured more others less. And then the soldiers carried them to the forest border, where they just died one after the other because of their injuries. It should be borne in mind that the autopsy of a body that has been exposed to low temperatures after death for a long time can easily recognize all the elements that indicate death due to hypothermia, even though death occurred entirely due to other causes. In addition, autopsy reports are very shabby. Also, tent status information is unreliable. Notably the story that he was cut from the inside. Also, with regard to the footprints in the snow, given the available photographs, we can easily claim what we want. And if we actually think that 9 people died and that we only have these exhibit photographs for the proof from the scene of the "accident," then we can really wonder what command the investigators had. To find something or to hide something?
Well, if there was a blast near the tent and the military knew they were there, I can't help but think it would be easier, cleaner and more logical to just remove all the evidence completely, rather than to try to recreate the scene to make it look like some kind of accident. I don't think the authorities knew the group were there, or they maybe would not have even allowed the criminal investigation to begin. It would be less conspicuous to not start the investigation than to force it to be shut down. It does appear that there is something that the authorities want to keep under wraps.
It is precisely because there is always a need to divert attention away from what we do not want that people to know. Anything that was difficult to justify for the state, such as the fault of a rocket, army, monkeys, gorillas, Elvis Presley ..., is best replaced by a natural disaster. Because nobody can blamed or judged the nature. So far, this formula is the most effective and is used worldwide.
It is impossible to clear and conceal everything. Nine people who have already been enrolled in the system died. Relatives (some of whom are highly ranked in society) and friends and locals asked questions. And something had to be answered. There was a need to invent a story that would be as plausible as possible and would obscure the truth. And today it is the same. Why do you think that for the whole year, the "reopening of the Dyatlov case" with all possible experts is the 100th check for whether or not there was a snow avalanche? It is precisely because there is always a need to divert attention away from what we do not want that people to know. Anything that was difficult to justify for the state, such as the fault of a rocket, army, monkeys, gorillas, Elvis Presley ..., is best replaced by a natural disaster. Because nobody can blamed or judged the nature. So far, this formula is the most effective and is used worldwide.
Well, if there was a blast near the tent and the military knew they were there, I can't help but think it would be easier, cleaner and more logical to just remove all the evidence completely, rather than to try to recreate the scene to make it look like some kind of accident. I don't think the authorities knew the group were there, or they maybe would not have even allowed the criminal investigation to begin. It would be less conspicuous to not start the investigation than to force it to be shut down. It does appear that there is something that the authorities want to keep under wraps.
Just few points...we should not consider "the authorities" for one solid governing body. The administration espacially in communist countries was very complicated, one bureau often didn't know what the other was doing. Even more so if these were dealing with classified matters. Local authorities who comenced the search were almost certainly not aware of exact actions of any other state office above their rank. To make 9 people disappear is far from easy and it could haeve caused the search to last ages. Instead, somebody /the colonel mentioned by Okishev?/ opted to close the investigation ASAP and close the area from public. In the pre-internet age, not a bad idea at all.It is precisely because there is always a need to divert attention away from what we do not want that people to know. Anything that was difficult to justify for the state, such as the fault of a rocket, army, monkeys, gorillas, Elvis Presley ..., is best replaced by a natural disaster. Because nobody can blamed or judged the nature. So far, this formula is the most effective and is used worldwide.
Completly agree with that. The point of disinformation is not to persuade public what to think, but to create the enviroment where nobody knows what to think. It is an old KGB tactics still in place today and directed against Ukraine, Georgia, Jews, EU, liberalism, whatever...The other aim is to smear any opinion that would question the actions and explanations of Soviet/Russian "authorities" because in bolshevik's mind, the government is always true even its statements are contradictory themselves. The investigation of an "avalance" that did not happen in 1000 years on that slope is the same load of bollox. The best way how not to solve a crime is either deny it never happened or to blame it on anything else but other people (directly or indirectly). If that was trhe case, they did a pretty good job with a cover-up.
My view is that :-This is an interesting timeline because it requires multiple violent events not just say one rocket.
- They are all in the tent and then flee it together (at least 8 tracks), splitting into smaller groups (this was reported by the rescuers).
- One group gets a bad "hit" from something (nitric acid perhaps) and Zinaida, Igor and Rustem give up on the descent.
- The rest build a fire, drag the two Yuris to their resting place and remove their clothes.
- The last four abandon the fire, build a den but get crushed under the snow.
Events :-So 3 or 4 violent events with 4 probably being run over by a vehicle.
- Causes them to flee the tent.
- Causes Zina, Igor, Rustem to just give up on the slope but the rav4 remain able bodied. Possible that the 2 Yuris experience the same event but they make it to the cedar before giving up.
- Something causes the rav 4 to abandon the fire for the den. This doesn't have to be an external event but an internal decision to the group. But it could be an external (violent) event (i.e. they sought shelter under the snow in the ravine).
- The rav4 are crushed under the snow.
Looks like a military exercise to me with multiple missiles. I'd like to add "or fire orbs" but the this new detail of clothing covered in orange powder and orange snow tips the balance in favour of rocket fuel.
But the more interesting question imo is what happens next. Massive expense (triple probed 1500 hectares?) to find remains that could be easily found by waiting for the summer. True some of them might have been carried downstream and lost.
Ivanov summoned to Moscow and told to stop talking about fire orbs (or else)?
On discovery of bodies, confiscation of evidence by military personnel and shutdown of civilian investigation.
30 years later, Ivanov feels it safe to talk about fire orbs (or it's a diversion).
This year, case reopened but seemingly a whitewash.
/My view is that :-This is an interesting timeline because it requires multiple violent events not just say one rocket.
- They are all in the tent and then flee it together (at least 8 tracks), splitting into smaller groups (this was reported by the rescuers).
- One group gets a bad "hit" from something (nitric acid perhaps) and Zinaida, Igor and Rustem give up on the descent.
- The rest build a fire, drag the two Yuris to their resting place and remove their clothes.
- The last four abandon the fire, build a den but get crushed under the snow.
Events :-So 3 or 4 violent events with 4 probably being run over by a vehicle.
- Causes them to flee the tent.
- Causes Zina, Igor, Rustem to just give up on the slope but the rav4 remain able bodied. Possible that the 2 Yuris experience the same event but they make it to the cedar before giving up.
- Something causes the rav 4 to abandon the fire for the den. This doesn't have to be an external event but an internal decision to the group. But it could be an external (violent) event (i.e. they sought shelter under the snow in the ravine).
- The rav4 are crushed under the snow.
Looks like a military exercise to me with multiple missiles. I'd like to add "or fire orbs" but the this new detail of clothing covered in orange powder and orange snow tips the balance in favour of rocket fuel.
But the more interesting question imo is what happens next. Massive expense (triple probed 1500 hectares?) to find remains that could be easily found by waiting for the summer. True some of them might have been carried downstream and lost.
Ivanov summoned to Moscow and told to stop talking about fire orbs (or else)?
On discovery of bodies, confiscation of evidence by military personnel and shutdown of civilian investigation.
30 years later, Ivanov feels it safe to talk about fire orbs (or it's a diversion).
This year, case reopened but seemingly a whitewash.
It would be very unfortunate if the hikers, were forced from the tent by a rocket, then had to split up due to acid or NOx and were then crushed under the snow by a vehicle. That sounds like a very bad day. Like the opposite of winning the lottery.
I think there must be a simpler explanation. Military exercise - very possibly. But it is more likely that whatever forced them from the tent, was the same thing that caused them to split up on the slope and the same thing that inflicted the injuries on the rav 4?
One simple question for me is why did they drop the flash light on the slope? It must have been dark or they would not have taken it with them. So why leave it?
Regards
Star man
/My view is that :-This is an interesting timeline because it requires multiple violent events not just say one rocket.
- They are all in the tent and then flee it together (at least 8 tracks), splitting into smaller groups (this was reported by the rescuers).
- One group gets a bad "hit" from something (nitric acid perhaps) and Zinaida, Igor and Rustem give up on the descent.
- The rest build a fire, drag the two Yuris to their resting place and remove their clothes.
- The last four abandon the fire, build a den but get crushed under the snow.
Events :-So 3 or 4 violent events with 4 probably being run over by a vehicle.
- Causes them to flee the tent.
- Causes Zina, Igor, Rustem to just give up on the slope but the rav4 remain able bodied. Possible that the 2 Yuris experience the same event but they make it to the cedar before giving up.
- Something causes the rav 4 to abandon the fire for the den. This doesn't have to be an external event but an internal decision to the group. But it could be an external (violent) event (i.e. they sought shelter under the snow in the ravine).
- The rav4 are crushed under the snow.
Looks like a military exercise to me with multiple missiles. I'd like to add "or fire orbs" but the this new detail of clothing covered in orange powder and orange snow tips the balance in favour of rocket fuel.
But the more interesting question imo is what happens next. Massive expense (triple probed 1500 hectares?) to find remains that could be easily found by waiting for the summer. True some of them might have been carried downstream and lost.
Ivanov summoned to Moscow and told to stop talking about fire orbs (or else)?
On discovery of bodies, confiscation of evidence by military personnel and shutdown of civilian investigation.
30 years later, Ivanov feels it safe to talk about fire orbs (or it's a diversion).
This year, case reopened but seemingly a whitewash.
It would be very unfortunate if the hikers, were forced from the tent by a rocket, then had to split up due to acid or NOx and were then crushed under the snow by a vehicle. That sounds like a very bad day. Like the opposite of winning the lottery.
I think there must be a simpler explanation. Military exercise - very possibly. But it is more likely that whatever forced them from the tent, was the same thing that caused them to split up on the slope and the same thing that inflicted the injuries on the rav 4?
One simple question for me is why did they drop the flash light on the slope? It must have been dark or they would not have taken it with them. So why leave it?
Regards
Star man
Yes military exercise is a good explanation. Except for there had to be a massive cleanup? But why not just close the area, put it off limits?
They left the flashlight as a beacon for the return is the best explanation.
Dyatlov's ankles - Google image "snowy brambles" and remember Igor is the only one to clearly die of hypothermia which means he could have been staggering along with little concern for injury.
Yuri K's burn - there are lots of other reasons, acid splash, electric discharge, lying unconscious with his leg in the fire.
This guy is too constructive. I'd want to see a more open mind.
Tumanov suggests that the injuries were caused by hand or blunt instruments and that'd they had guns or knives they didn't use them. But the forces required to cause those flail chest injuries are very significant and unlikely to be capable for a human with either hand or blunt object.
Regards
Star man
Dear Spygirl: Have you looked at the case file of Buryatia Dyatlov Pass incident in 1993? It is very interesting that they experienced such confusion and ears bleeding, etc., but clearly from the one survivor there were no explosions, it all just happened spontaneously. So as far as an explosion, I don't think they found any evidence of such at the Dyatlov pass incident in 1959, or none that they confessed to..
Dear Spygirl: Yes, perhaps they had 3 years to cover it up. There is no discussion of activity in the area after the disaster. The area was blocked off. Even if it were only civilians blocked out of the area, the path to the pass has to run through 2 small towns and the people who resided there made no mention of military crews going up there. I may be wrong, but if there was any clean up by military it had to have been done when it happened. Did you read the Buryatia Dyatlov pass incident?
Greetings-
Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.
So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.
This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".
He is of the same opinion of Criminologist Eduardo Tumerov.
As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.
Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.
I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.
If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.
Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.
I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.
I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.
My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.
I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.
Dear Spygirl: Have you looked at the case file of Buryatia Dyatlov Pass incident in 1993? It is very interesting that they experienced such confusion and ears bleeding, etc., but clearly from the one survivor there were no explosions, it all just happened spontaneously.
So as far as an explosion, I don't think they found any evidence of such at the Dyatlov pass incident in 1959, or none that they confessed to..
Dear Spygirl: Have you looked at the case file of Buryatia Dyatlov Pass incident in 1993? It is very interesting that they experienced such confusion and ears bleeding, etc., but clearly from the one survivor there were no explosions, it all just happened spontaneously. So as far as an explosion, I don't think they found any evidence of such at the Dyatlov pass incident in 1959, or none that they confessed to..=============================
Evidence?? They had three years to clean it up!
You'd be amazed at the extent govt/military/nefarious folks go to to create cover-ups. This is why until a TRUE forensic investigation is done there will be no closure.
How did we (forensic agents) solve these cover-ups? Simply by applying the golden rule of forensics: YOU CAN'T MAKE SENSE OUT OF NONSENSE!! And man, does that ever apply here.
And to be clear-- my bombing experience it sounded to me no louder than like when a bird accidentally hits a window.
I don't believe any possible explosion in this case would have been massive. Maybe firing of many RPG's or something?
I personally worked 2 cases in my career of several young people who walked up on something they shouldn't have seen. Both cases the bodies were found in mysterious ways.
I truly believe that's what happened here.
Dear Spygirl: Yes, perhaps they had 3 years to cover it up. There is no discussion of activity in the area after the disaster.
The area was blocked off. Even if it were only civilians blocked out of the area, the path to the pass has to run through 2 small towns and the people who resided there made no mention of military crews going up there.
I may be wrong, but if there was any clean up by military it had to have been done when it happened.
Did you read the Buryatia Dyatlov pass incident?
Dear Spygirl: Yes, perhaps they had 3 years to cover it up. There is no discussion of activity in the area after the disaster. The area was blocked off. Even if it were only civilians blocked out of the area, the path to the pass has to run through 2 small towns and the people who resided there made no mention of military crews going up there. I may be wrong, but if there was any clean up by military it had to have been done when it happened. Did you read the Buryatia Dyatlov pass incident?==================================
Respectfully, I'm not sure of the point. It appears the leader of this hiking group believed a little too much in her own abilities.
In contrast, by all accounts Igor was an excellent leader & hiker. It appears he & the others prepared extremely well for the excursion, even including a stove.
The main difference is the Buryatia groups' injuries could easily be accounted for. Unlike the Dyatlov 9, there is no crushed ribs or skull fractures.
Greetings-
Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.
Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.
This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".
He is of the same opinion of Criminologist Eduardo Tumerov.
I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect. He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it. grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner. grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.
It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.
Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.
In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.
In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.
No comment… nea1Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.
I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.
I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.
It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.
I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.
Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.
Greetings-
Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.
Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.
This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".
He is of the same opinion of Criminologist Eduardo Tumerov.
I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect. He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it. grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner. grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.
It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.
Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.
In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.
In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.
No comment… nea1Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.
I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.
I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.
It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.
I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.
Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.
WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.
I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.
So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.
Best--
Spygirl 1
Greetings-
Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.
Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.
This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".
He is of the same opinion of Criminologist Eduardo Tumerov.
I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect. He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it. grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner. grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.
It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.
Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.
In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.
In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.
No comment… nea1Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.
I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.
I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.
It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.
I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.
Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.
WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.
I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.
So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.
Best--
Spygirl 1
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!!
Greetings-
Dear Spygirl 1 I welcome you too!
Unfortunately, I did not write for a long time here and anywhere more, therefore I answer only one you message.
As I have lot information on these questions from “the first sources”, I will try answer for your questions.Haven't quite figured out how to post here. I meant the following to be a reply to Gypsy's post. Maybe someone will give me guidance here.
Certainly, I am not be the moderator in this forum, but I think that all questions should be structured strictly to themes. How much I have understood speech here goes about interpretation of the information about Dyatlov group and similar cases in the Russian television shows.
I should declare that it is not necessary trust to this shows, as to sources serious and trustworthy information. I think that it concerns not only the Russian mass-media. It is the practice extended in the world when mass-media start to focus attention on small details which are not of great importance. The facts and the information which can destroy nonexistent sensation are simultaneously ignored or are specially suppressed, but are truth.So, Gypsy, about your last post: I would like to direct you to Russian criminologist Anton Larkin.
This past February he was featured on the Russian television program called "Perebal Dyatlov".
He is of the same opinion of Criminologist Eduardo Tumerov.
I saw this show in source language (it is my native language) and have not found there what that of the basic thoughts concerning the happened. Besides, I am personally also well familiar with Edward Tumanov. However it is not necessary name he on the Latin American dialect. He, of course, will not take offence, but will smile about it. grin1
By the way, he is not the criminologist, and he is the doctor-coroner. grin1
Unfortunately, Edward Tumanov though is the good expert, but he has not practice in studying about bodies which are analogue of that, and it was in all cases which are discussed:
1.The Case from Igor Dyatlov group to Northern Ural Mountains,
2.The Case from Ludmila Korovina group in Hamar-Daban Mountains, nearby Baikal lakes,
3.The Case with students group from Kuibyshev (Samara) city in Kola peninsula.
His explanations this traumas are based on practice as city coroner, therefore do not consider specificity of extreme conditions of winter travel. Unfortunately regular medical researches similar to the specified cases, are not present failures. It occurs that they are very separated on time and district arrangement. And it is because they were spent by different doctors. Therefore this information could not be saved up and systematised as the scientific context. Unfortunately the medicine, it not mathematics and not physics, therefore there all is defined only by analogy to other cases and if they are not familiar to the expert, it means can be mistaken in estimations. As it is occurs, if it is required in mass-media for entertainment events.As far as an expert I do consider myself as one due to 28 years as a US Federal Agent. My entire career was in forensics. I worked at a private forensics firm 5 years after that.
It is very well, however it were required estimations only on the basis of absolutely authentic and unequivocal information there where you worked. I hope, what I am not mistaken in this statement? Therefore I assure you that the information from mass-media about these cases is not absolutely authentic. I know it on the basis of that well I know all these cases, and in case #3, I am is the only thing (for this time) the expert from those who knew all from the beginning to the end, and I is still the live expert now.Several have stated on this forum they're not so hip about Turmerov. I have studied Tumerov by his body language. My conclusion is he is sincere but very frustrated by no real investigation so he comes across as terse.
Yes, I with you in it agree, as I to he know, as personally.I find these two criminologists along with Yuri Kuntsevich, Chairman Dyatlov Pass by far the most credible of all involved.
In this statement I do not agree with you, almost completely. I know Yury Kuntsevich very much for long time and much better than Edward Tumanov, but I know as that Yury Kuntsevich though is the good organizer of studying of case Dyatlov group, but he speaks much in not that party, concerning the reasons of this case. It occurs because at it insufficient formation and abstract preparation in technical (especially military and connected with it) field, and mass-media demand the comment which have sensation. Unfortunately he often agrees on it. Though many experts who in course of this case, with it do not agree completely for him. But here it is necessary consider each case such the comment separately and carefully.
It is necessary notice that it has brought very big advantage that has created “the Font of memory Dyatlov group” and regularly is engaged in that supports memory of this group. These are two different parties in approach to true understanding of that has occurred to Dyatlov group.
Because of my career I survived one of the deadliest terrorist bombings ever known to man. I can promise you the injuries to these promising 9 young people is very much what might be expected from an explosion or by blunt force trauma.
In this statement I with you do not agree completely as. And I am professionally was engaged in such division of science, as biomechanics of shock influences to body human. Simultaneously I have experience of supervision of fighting traumas, including from explosions of different origin: fragmental, demolition, volume explosion. It was be in real fighting conditions.
All traumas of Dyatlov group have as shock origin, that is from blow about different subjects of environment. These traumas concern 3 groups (at 4 persons). Other participants of Dyatlov group no have what that of serious traumas. That all coroner has described as is small damages, characteristic for stay of these people in environment, including in extreme conditions. Besides, part of these traumas have a posthumous origin. It was me discuss with different doctors, including Edward Tumanov. He has agreed with some my statements.If the current autopsies are to be believed, all documented findings would be compatible with blast injuries.
No comment… nea1Many do not realize what happens mentally to someone close to an big explosion. The body goes into rhabdomyolysis which causes SEVERE CONFUSION.
I've had experience with this evil malady. The confusion is such you don't even know your name or which way to safety. Could definitely be the case here.
I'm not certain I believe that an explosion in & of itself can explain everything. Just putting it forward.
It so confirm it is your right. However here it is necessary to consider many details, including what are called "small". If it analysed and these details “the explosion theory” does not turn out in any way in reality …My current overall thoughts of this case: it will never be solved on that mountain. Rather only by exhumations which two weeks ago Igor's sister, Tatyana called for.
I am in course of these events, however I do not consider it deserving the necessary attention. As far as I know, this requirement is based on belief of the lawyer operating now and correspondents of the newspaper which write to theme about “ case Dyatlov group”.
As I think, this action is absolutely useless, because, those who it offers do not know precisely that they want have result of it though everyone holds the personal thoughts. But these thoughts are not directed advancement to true, and have only personal intentions and interests.
That was at exhumation of a body Simeon Zolotaryov in April, 12, 2019. And that are proves to true It.
The newspaper has written about it many articles. There were many different conversations, DNA examination has given 3 different results (because wrong methods of comparison have originally been chosen), there get were many new questions (and very not clear and indistinct on sense) …
As result there was nothing new or necessary for advancement to true. If there will be new exhumation all these ambiguities should be increased on “N”. What is it will be possible have in this case?
As is in Christian custom it is better touch not body deceased what disturb not their soul. Though I am not is religious believing person, but I consider necessary with respect to concern national traditions of those places where all it has occurred.I have contacted this site's moderator to see if permissible to post the two videos I have referred to.
Even if it will not resolve here, I with the big curiosity would read everything that you write about it.
It is possible send it to the my e-mail (in the personal message I will send the address). In advance I thank you for it. I promise not place any comments in forums or other publications, without your consent to it.
Thank you for your message write.
WOW!! Although I haven't digested all your comments I'm excited that you have responded!! Like you it took me quite a while to post on this forum.
I am finding the language translation is sometimes difficult.
So, thank you & I look forward to thoroughly examining all your comments.
Best--
Spygirl 1
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
What are you doing, WAB-- starting a new Cold War? I think I'm in shock.
At first I thought we could possibly put our heads together along with the rest of the forum members to
advance possibilities of what happened to 9 promising young lives. I must be getting soft because that was naive of me.
You keep talking about facts. What appears to be a fact is your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted. Every word I have written was done with pure intent.
I have 30 years of hands-on field experience. I have worked some of the largest cases in recent US/World history. It was interesting but not always pleasant. I have seen the worst of humanity. Yes, it is beyond haunting.
We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, & other countries There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies/foreign involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me, my years of service,and my intelligence.
You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel? I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!" So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
I apologize to all for my terseness.
Best --
Spygirl 1
Dear WAB welcome back again,
I want no be erroneous, but it seems to me that what you write, is a syndrome of the person which has decided that he knows all better then others (Where did we hear that already ?). No offense.
In fact, I just started this topic for a single reason. I anticipated the development of the debate and knew that you would feel called to redirect the course of the debate. It amazes me that you waited so long.
As you are avoiding answering my direct question so far, I will ask again: "After all these years of dealing with the tragedy of the Dyatlov Group and in all your (better than others) knowledge of events, would you please trust us your view (maybe theory) what is the reason which was lead to the death of all Dyatlov members?
By the way: Has your friend Victor Popovnin's very high level (international) expert already managed to compile his report?
It was said that it would be in August. And because you know everyone could you tell us if the Office of Public Prosecutor already interprets its conclusion?
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?
You keep talking about facts. What appears to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.
I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history. We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?
You keep talking about facts. What appears to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.
I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history. We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody could cancel megalomania
Spygirl: I'm not acquainted with how to show responses in the different colored box ...but I will respond to this rude & aggresious attack.
m not anybody's "little girl". In fact you don't even know I'm female. I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?
I was not going be at war with anybody (though as the former military man I have rank lieutenant colonel Air Forces and fighting experience). But if to me try offer frank lies, which name the facts, I can answer.
Spygirl: Please stop your pissing match. My spouse outranks you by a mile!You keep talking about facts. What appears to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.
These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts which are replaced with rough imaginations, but have no relation to that that was then actually.
Spygirl: have no idea what you're talking about!I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history. We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.
Physicists have noticed for long time that there is nothing more silly, than the expert in one field of knowledge when it try to argue in other field of knowledge in which it has not got sufficient education or has no sufficient knowledge. It is just such case. Conditionally tell: lying on sofa argue that occurs on other party of the earth, and not have about it the slightest representation.
But if there was desire show that you have such prejudiced and ready on substitution of concepts "experts" it was possible more than well.
Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.
Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?
Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively
Spygirl: I'll match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?
Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.
Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.
Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
Great!! Another insult! Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody
These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts
Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.
Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?
Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively
Spygirl: I'll match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?
Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.
Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.
Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
Great!! Another insult! Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
"Death by overcooling" does not disqualify the violence or homicide as a cause of death. If I lock a person in a freezer or force them outside without proper gear, that is 'technically' hypothermia, but legally and morally that is well performed murder
The subsequent reaction of the people involved in the investigation strongly alludes to a cover-up as otherwise there would be no need to close the area for public, to confiscate the evidence, to close the case as soon as possible and not to involve relavant experts in the investigation.
Greetings to all.
Because I see that Mr WAB has lost his temper and has unnecessarily gotten into the forum with fairly hostile rhetoric. I would like to explain that it is important to understand that this gentleman is an old, ill, retired military officer who still believes in own mission. It must be understood that they were raised following the brainwashing doctrine and that it is difficult to go beyond that. To him any hint, that the cause of the Dyatlov tragedy is something else than a natural disaster, is an attack on his country. He just defends his country (USSR which officially not exist anymore) the way he was trained. Above all, it is obvious that he is a completely harmless old gentleman who is just lonely. He writes enormously, though he really has nothing to say. Therefore, I urge all participants in the forum on tolerance in accordance with the civilizational norm.
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it ilink=topic=523.msg7547#msg7547 date=1571885146]
What are you doing, WAB-- starting a Cold War with me?
You keep talking about facts. What appears to be a fact your use of a jaundiced eye that discounts every single comment I've posted.
I have 30 years of field experience. I have worked on some of the largest cases in recent US history. We worked closely with coroners, medical examiner's, police departments, etc. There was always a great respect between different personnel/ agencies involved who all played a positive role in determining each case. However, in the end it was usually those in my position
who developed conclusive forensic evidence.
You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody
These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts
Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved.
Are you stating a physicist knows more than the most senior-level US Agent has? That is quite laughable😜You also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?
Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively
Spygirl: I'll match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?
Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.
Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.
Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some peop
.................................................
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody
These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts
Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolvedYou also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?
Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively
Spygirl: I'll match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?
Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.
Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.
Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
Great!! Another insult! Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
...............................................
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
ON ALL THESE REPEATED POSTS PLEASE GIVE ME A MINUTE TO CLEAN UP.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CLUTTER AND DISARRAY.
ASKING IF YOU FOLKS WILL ASSIST ME VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE TO INSTRUCT ME ON HOW TO RESPOND TO POSTS PROPERLY- I.E. MAKE MY RESPONSE APPEAR LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. CURRENTLY I SUCK AT IT!!! nea1. wink1 shock1
THANKS IN ADVANCE
😊
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Boy!! Did I reply to your response prematurely!!
The little girl, when next time to you will suggest pass from younger group to average, it is not necessary agree, it is still very much early. It there does not correspond level of perception of the validity to life realities. Though, it still nobody
These comments are equivalent to silly fabrications as they ignore the facts
Spygirl: Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolvedYou also state you are seldom on this site. That is simply a lie.
Your previous posts appear to do nothing but contradict numerous posts on this forum. Actually some of your comments on my posts do nothing but affirm my observations!
Well certainly, if not have there is enough knowledge and not understand at all concrete case they and cannot give any representation. Really such low skill level at Federal agents of the USA? Especially against what they neglect reliability of the information and replace the facts with the imaginations about it? Or replace the information from “yellow mass-media”.
It is interesting, why my objections can not contradict inventions if I inform what is actually, and others try protect his unreal imaginations?
And why you written at forum should be more authentic than what is on place and in those real conditions? You, and practically all who writes there, were not (and even no have representation) in difference from me. Or it is such your principle: If the facts contradict for your statements, let will be worse for the facts?
Spygirl: How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI.You have taken a lot of time to COMPLETELY DISRESPECT me & my years of service as well as my intelligence.
The intelligence it is shown in not what for replace the facts with imaginations, and in that level of knowledge which the author has. And in ability use this knowledge in concrete case. And it is not present at you in this case. There are only one empty ambitions, exclusively
Spygirl: I'll match my I.Q. against yours any day! Is it just a bad day that compells your cheap shots?You don't know sh!t about massive explosions. Your sacrilege of my numerous injuries/surgeries as well as thousands of other victims, many of whom died is beyond comprehension. The bombing I experienced was unreal in that people in conference rooms/ meetings would maybe kill colleagues on each side of someone but that person was not very injured at all.
You know on the substance of this business even less, but makes very ambitious statements behind which stand only empty and anything besides. You do not have even understanding that stands up for the text autopsy.
Control question:
Describe signs of "explosions" which are found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations for "facts".
In general, what relation has your experience of mass explosions to case in point? Or you again try give out wished for the valid?
Spygirl: Why do you have such strong desires to discount everything not only I but about everyone in this forum?I have only stated my experiences to add aspects others might consider.
Do you really think I take Russian videos as gospel?
I do not think so, I exactly see (from your comments) that you so all and perceive. If be otherwise you would write absolutely another on sense.I only stated what was I thought may have a shred of truth said in recent information from Russian tv. We here in America don't get a lot of new information on the DPI.
I have specially allocated fragment which is key in all your errors. As I receive all information on this case from first-hand and I know all this "kitchen" from within, therefore I and write that is actually, instead of in what that vague imaginations through ocean.SO--like member Tekumze has posted (paraphrasing) "since you are the expert tell us what happened!"
You should speak only on its own behalf. Attempt hide for words of others gives out you as the person trying change you`s mind for another's mind.
Judging by that you write, you (and to he, if he so demands) will not have not enough knowledge of physics and realities of that place, what it understand. It is described for long time already at this forum. But it has not been understood even half. You do not notice that half year or one year ago, as well as that I have breaks in writing on 3 … 6 months is written. And you it try give out that I cannot that that to explain. Then remain in your errors and do not stick with requirements which you cannot understand never. Mind and formation for you will not suffice.
Spygirl: Ok, Sad WAB, nowhere have I stated I have a great understanding of physics. I have made it clear we worked very closely & with great reverence for all fields of study. Are you staying because you are a physicist you know more than the rest of us?So respectively please tell all of us what really happened. Since I am a bereaved parent myself, trust me the families deserve it the truth as evidenced by Igor's sister.
And you are Tatyana's executor?
Ha-ha.
We already talked to it about happened earlier. So it is not necessary be engaged in demagogy here.
Spygirl: The fact you completely ignore I'm a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.Bottom line---to other members for the forum thank you for your courteous responses.
& to you, WAB: Shame on you! Your mouth is writing checks your a$$ can't cash.
It is too traditional reception of demagogues, when the holes in own knowledge cover with that demand from others that not condition understand.
It you should moderate the lies that you can know that useful about this case.
We have saying: at some people the impudence is the second happiness. However it is represented to me that at some Spygirl 1, it is not the second, but the first …
Great!! Another insult! Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
And in your response to Tekumze you state the 9 died of "overcooling". That in no way gives conclusive evidence as to all documented injuries. Now who is the imprudent one ?
Spygirl 1,Thanks!Hmmm....you think he is American President Trump, also? lol2
With your support I didn't need much to find a black cat in the black room.
And now I also understand what the job of this cat is in this forum. If you know what I mean...declare1
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.""Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.First and Foremost: MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics. His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/ (https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/). Download and read. After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
C
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle" The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts. Not like wheeled vehicle. Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.""Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.First and Foremost: MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics. His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/ (https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/). Download and read. After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
C
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle" The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts. Not like wheeled vehicle. Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more enlightenment... and in return - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oh8ia so true don't you think? However we have to consider the possibility of it just being a random alternative possibility masquerading as an argument against a hypothesis of course.(Or something like that anyway, i'm getting a bit lost in all of that, i never was good at dinosaurs...).
Now I know you as a diligent member of the forum will have read the link i posted end to end but here's some points just for anyone else who might be slightly less diligent. The "ravine vehicle theory" goes like this :-Further to the case against an explosion :-
- A vehicle, multi wheeled or tracked approaches at speed downhill.
- The weight of this vehicle causes the den roof to collapse just ahead of the first wheel (or front of track). This positions the bodies as shown.
- The den roof collapsing creates a pit/crater that one side of the front of the vehicle drops into before rising out.
- It is this short impulse that cracks ribs and squeezes a skull and the person that suffers the worst fractures (Lyudmila) is in the correct position for receiving the most force.
- The vehicle then continues forward rising out of the crater but with the rear wheel or track again dropping into the crater creating another impulse and secondary fractures as with Lyudmila.
- Although Ivanov seized on burnt trees for his fireorb theory there is no record of any damage to any sapling or branch in the ravine. This on it's own rules out an explosion at that location.
- So the only way forward then is that the den was a construction but somehow unknown to the KGB et al who spent three months up to their gonads triple probing 1500 hectares of mountain.
- But then you have the curious question - "why go to all that effort for 4 members of the group but leave another 5 in the open air?".
- and there's the ever so minor matter of no burst lungs being recorded. Possibly incompetence of course but an explosion of that magnitude should have created obvious lung damage?
Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.""Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.First and Foremost: MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics. His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/ (https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/). Download and read. After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle" The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts. Not like wheeled vehicle. Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for more
1. Wrt finding and discussing material on ball lightning i think i can safely say that i qualify as the most productive member of this forum. Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.Ah Jacques me' old exasperating sparring partner...Thanks for the best quote on this forum for some time - "Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.""Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.First and Foremost: MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics. His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/ (https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/). Download and read. After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle" The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts. Not like wheeled vehicle. Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
It's gems like that, that keep me coming back here for moreMore of what?This site has two sides. I am absolutely astonished - the brilliant and diligent diligence of those who discover documents and artifacts. You are incredible! I think of Teddy and all the founders and so many others. So grateful for your work!
Then, two levels ago. We are secondary members and we do respectfully everything we can to improve the discourse.
Of secondary members, I am very disappointed, and especially of you, Nigel. You do not add any primary source material; but you do not care to intervene in a mutually beneficial way.
I know professionally with some aspects of the biophysics of the effects of explosions on humans. There are two other people (WAB, spygirl) who talk about this subject in a meaningful way (apart from the quarrels). The article I quoted proposes:
There is common set of equations witch can be used for calculation of blast wave from explosive charges, it's called Sadovsky formulas. It works regardless on nature of explosion and depends only on TNT equivalent of explosive charge. All this calculations are based on energy similarity law for explosions witch stated that all blast wave parameters are function of two variables: first is explosion energy and second is distance from explosion origin.
My God, read them maybe! For you, it's trivial nonsense, like a sketch of Monty Python. What is this two-variable equation, energy and distance? You do not understand, so you do not care. Ho-ho, stupid smart people! Scientists are fools, no? You then seem Homer Simpson of the council.
It is impossible to be a contributing secondary member of the board, to offer analysis of the main source material. As many of the members seem so, the board seems now, you can keep it, it's up to you, bye. You win.
I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.
“My spouse advances you on mile!”We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
I have no idea what you're talking about!
«A control question:Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©
Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..
How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.
Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
"Death by overcooling" does not disqualify the violence or homicide as a cause of death.
If I lock a person in a freezer or force them outside without proper gear, that is 'technically' hypothermia, but legally and morally that is well performed murder.
The subsequent reaction of the people involved in the investigation strongly alludes to a cover-up as otherwise there would be no need to close the area for public, to confiscate the evidence, to close the case as soon as possible and not to involve relavant experts in the investigation.
Greetings to all.
Because I see that Mr WAB has lost his temper and has unnecessarily gotten into the forum with fairly hostile rhetoric. I would like to explain that it is important to understand that this gentleman is an old, ill, retired military officer who still believes in own mission. It must be understood that they were raised following the brainwashing doctrine and that it is difficult to go beyond that. To him any hint, that the cause of the Dyatlov tragedy is something else than a natural disaster, is an attack on his country. He just defends his country (USSR which officially not exist anymore) the way he was trained. Above all, it is obvious that he is a completely harmless old gentleman who is just lonely. He writes enormously, though he really has nothing to say. Therefore, I urge all participants in the forum on tolerance in accordance with the civilizational norm.
"Argument" in opposition to hypothesis is argument in opposition to hypothesis, not listing random alternative possibilities.First and Foremost: MA Sadovsky is the physicist who definitively stated the theoretical physics. His work is well summarized at https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/ (https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/blast-effect-calculation-1-pdf.2578/). Download and read. After Sadovsky formulas were stated, there is only particular applications to certain circumstances.
Explosions can be different sizes depending on the amount of explosives used to cause explosion.
It is exasperating to read, over and over again, such things as " a good case can be made that they were run over by a multi wheeled or tracked vehicle" The impulse wave to the bodies is lasting in small millisecond amounts.
Not like wheeled vehicle. Read Tumanov discussion earlier in page.
Reading forums is exasperating as the same bad physics is regurgitated over and over again.
Hmmm....you think he is American President Trump, also? lol2
Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.
I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.
1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:“My spouse advances you on mile!”We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?I have no idea what you're talking about!
2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:
«A control question:Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?
Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..
I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.
The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.
About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.
I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.
1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:“My spouse advances you on mile!”We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?I have no idea what you're talking about!
2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:
«A control question:Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?
Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..
I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.
The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.
About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.
Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.
I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.
Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"
I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.
1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:“My spouse advances you on mile!”We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?I have no idea what you're talking about!
2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:
«A control question:Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?
Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..
I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.
The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.
About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.
Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.
I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.
Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"
I'm not anybody's "little girl" & I think you've got it wrong who is the meglamanic. I will be using the utmost restraint replying to your ridiculous diatribe.
1.You in vain try "be deciphered", who you and you that from yourselves represent in the given theme, it was clear at once after perusal of pair texts. For this purpose it is not necessary be the psychologist even initial level. Was make the elementary semantic analysis (simply attentively, and with sense, read you texts) enough what it understand. Also behave you as that "little girl". A hysterics which you here have gone at once as soon as with you have disagreed are it is very characteristic. It is necessary so be substituted?. Have dirtied forum that minimum six times were confused in the same elementary action …
And again there are constant attempts “for whom that to hide”. For example, once again:“My spouse advances you on mile!”We not speak about it, and we speak about you. You that can show in this respect? And it is interesting to me, where he was at war? Really, it is only in Washington? It is what be compared to me …
Case has reached even that you cannot normally format the text on the Internet or will quickly learn, as it is necessary do it.
It is your intelligence about which you here so pathosly spoke?
Hardly more adult girls master such things in some minutes.
Absolutely not clearly, how with such abilities you could work in FBI?
Or you will accuse again others that do: constantly “urinate boiled water”?I have no idea what you're talking about!
2.It is absolute true. You about what that here is told on theme, have no the slightest concept. Neither about features of area actions, nor about natural factors, about specificity of that, than Dyatlov group, that was in life during that time was engaged. I have asked the basic (key) question:
«A control question:Actually it is here 2 questions: 1. Explosion signs on district? 2. Signs of traumas from explosion on bodies victims?
Describe signs of the "explosions" which have been found out in participants Dyatlov group? And as show, where and as traces from these "explosions" have been found out on district.
And it will be examination on your qualification and truthfulness.
For now it is not revealed and it is not confirmed authentically, it is not necessary give out the imaginations as "facts". »©
You have left from these questions, and they are criterion of reliability of your statements.
But to them you not condition answer. Because it do not know and at all have not read competently reports of the judicial doctor. And consequently that it is impossible find in both these places of that is not present, and never was. There are there no signs of explosions. Neither on district, nor on bodies.
That you want: understand that there has occurred, or at any cost drag the false opinion?
Therefore it turns out that you give not trustworthy information, and the inventions. If you want tell so that it is normal for FBI, it is discredit this “your” bureau.
I think that it there work not so. Thorough studying of all components There is required. You have not found time even to check up reliability of that put forward as the theory. And as reliability of sources the information, and at once do accusatory conclusions. Such approach from normal people is called as forgery.
You in the same way worked in the agency?
Are you mad? I have the utmost respect in my post to all other persons field of knowledge. At the end of the day someone must put the pieces of the puzzle (investigation/examination) together so the case may be resolved..
I have understood all. You could not understand that thought at all which to you have told. It is necessary notice that thus your intelligence “above the sky”.
Probably, you have found only familiar letters in the text, and to connect them in has washed off the text at you any more there was no "intelligence". It is happens all.
There is no this imaginary respect. Because instead of the analysis events and their signs on the nature you have false opinions with in advance thought up conclusions are offered.
You suggest collect puzzle from your false "slices"?How dare you disrespect not only me but the position I held. I have been very careful not to disclose my agency or my rank/position. Nowhere have I or others on this forum contradict the facts of DPI
The one who gives unreliable information has not respect.. And not the one who insists that it unique correct only because it occupied what that a post, and knows nothing that speaks. The respect has the one who gives the authentic and competent information You do not have any trustworthy information directly from place, there is no it from initial documents, and there is no it from direct participants of events (except victims). At me it is all is. Therefore I and you such different opinions. Attempt without adducing any proof deny those facts that is in documents and on place, leads distortion of straight lines and established facts and their substitution by "you himself". In forum heading there is such record: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan» © Read it, can be that will help that understand? Though, I have doubt it.
The fact you completely ignore I'm sadly a bereaved parent speaks volumes about your character.
.
About your character says even more that you are ready present the lies to grieving parents, instead of what is tactful, quiet and without haste inform truth. You do not think that will be when they later will receive truth. I am some times, had do it in the same cases, as DPI, after the and searches. All of them understood correctly.
We are on friendly terms with some relatives already more than 40 years. But you it understand not in condition.
And you impose your opinion, at all without knowing, who such Tatyana Perminova, and that she would like hear. Also replace her opinion to you - false. It is too called substitution of concepts to false. I was at she together with Kuntsevich and we spoke quite as friendly. With she the Fund constantly works. And here that is not required whose demagogical interventions of extraneous persons which anything cannot help but only are engaged in insignificant talks.Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
It is one more continuation of demagogy. If you yet have not understood, I speak directly: you have received in the answer “delivery by the same money with which tried pay”. And not I began this confrontation. If you would want that treated kindly you, arrive as it.
As speak in boxing: “you are not able hold Blow” © therefore these are audible your squeal and the boorish reference.
Probably you have got used to weak opponents who cannot oppose you anything. Wean, this time has passed.
It is not necessary worry about forum, here many more cleverer people, than you. Not all want to be puppies of agents FBI.
That you have deserved, and it receive. And this your lies about the reasons of events as result of "explosions" and remains lies, and it will not change anything.
Again-- I've never disclosed what US Federal Agenc(ies) I worked for on purpose.
I sent you a friendly private personal message asking you for a "cease fire" strictly so other members of this forum don't have to put up with this "fued" imposed by you.
Since you love to spew Russian aphorisms, here's an American one for you which I will adopt....& after this post I will not reply to you again---
"When they go low, we go high"
Ya know, this site was friendly, respectiful, & good discussions. So please, I emplore you, go crawl back under your rock & let the rest of us get back to the intended spirit of this forum.
.
Ball lightning of course being the stated favourite theory of Ivanov who saw all the evidence before confiscation.
Dear Nigel!
I very much want answer you in detail all your questions, but here it is necessary write much, and I now have no such time.Yes well if you spent less time arguing with your new girlfriend you would have more time for your old buddies... kewl1
Therefore I only will make one small remark.
a. Leo Ivanov in the statements (or “the declared favourite theory” (meant not a fireball, and UFO. I do not know that for you will be authoritative opinion but as that we (it was conversation in Fund at Yury Kuntsevich after one of their conferences) concerned this question in conversation with Ivanov's daughter - Aleksandra. She precisely said that it was fond of the UFO and no instead fireball theory.
The english translation of the Leninsky Put article seems to be very clear, Ivanov believed in fireorbs, possibly piloted, firing directed heat rays.
b. Any confiscations of proofs from criminal case was not. These are gossips extended of a source from Korotayev. And Korotayev of anything certain could not tell and each time spoke on another when it asked that he spoke.
In the same Leninsky Put article Ivanov discusses the confiscation of evidence and being ordered to maintain secrecy including lying to the relatives. Some years later Okishev gave interviews where he confirms that this took place. A female radio operator (i do not remember her name) has stated that records were abruptly removed in May 1959 by "competent persons". Just one example of the lost records is the "Ortorten News" sheet found in the tent. All we have is a transcript, the original is lost presumably archived somewhere.
Recently there was a book of writer Nikolay Andreeva ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GDQaUgJ5nUDxrFyPLGRe4FZis1LwmVuk/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GDQaUgJ5nUDxrFyPLGRe4FZis1LwmVuk/view?usp=sharing) it is in Russian!), there it assorts contradictions in Korotayev's performances much.