Victims and Case Files > Lyudmila Dubinina
Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Dona on April 19, 2021, 12:24:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 19, 2021, 12:18:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dona on April 18, 2021, 02:50:06 PM ---Geez, I would have thought you would have known this one She was one of your Queens..
--- End quote ---
What are you talking about ! ?
--- End quote ---
Daft, again..
--- End quote ---
Try thinking before you post stuff.
Jean Daniel Reuss:
I do not have many changes to make since my post July 20, 2020, 03:43:19 PM Reply #17
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg10160#msg10160
sarapuk is obviously right when he writes that there is no evidence to explain the DPI with certainty. But I think it is wise to take a cue from Maya Leonidovna Piskareva 's a wise and lyrical statements when she is asking questions to Mikhail Petrovich Sharavin (1935-2020) :
« you have so elegantly expressed your agreement, I am flattered. But, alas, we will learn the truth either from the state or when we find ourselves in the other world, where there are no illnesses, sorrows and grief...
In the meantime, we are left to indulge ourselves intellectually in a game of investigations.»
I thank Teddy who has done the enormous task of gathering and put in order, on his "forum.dyatlovpass.com", the informations and the various arguments that will allow us to gradually elaborate complete and realistic explanatory theories.
Because Dubina's diary appears to be genuine, it is important to explain Dubinina's strange changes so that they can be logically incorporated into a complete and convincing theory.
Part 1 , sabine : Reply #1 - 2 - 7 - 8
§-1-} These posts by sabine are very interesting. Of course, I often agree with Sabine Lechtenfeld.
[/i]Dubinina was an intelligent and well-educated young woman, who was introverted and did not socialize easily
She seems to have been well organized and honest to a fault.
She didn't hesitate to speak her mind, being socially awkward.[/i]
Yes : IMHO : There is clearly no such thing as premonition, telepathic thought transmission or influence of idiotic astrology.
§-2-} sabine seems to me to have had an intuition of the right (i.e.my) solution at first. Then she reacts in the wrong way:
"No ! No ! It is not plausible..."
But is not plausible to assume that a personal enemy of Lyuda would recruit helpers in order to wipe out the whole group.
IMHO, Nevertheless this is exactly in fact what happened : 1 or 2 clients, (commanders...) who stayed in Vizhay paid (probably 3) mercenary killers.
And therefore I think it's legitimate and necessary to look at a scenario where these facial injuries may have been inflicted deliberately, since the implications for the whole case are immense.
IMHO, the facial injuries have been inflicted deliberately which incriminates the Chekists of the NKVD and exonerates other suspects such as the Russian or foreign Zeks and the Mansi.
§-3-} A general query, addressed especially to those who have psychological knowledge and who are interested in the issue of DPI, (such as Sabine, mk, ...etc.)
Why this widespread and strange refusal to adopt a criminal version (Murdered or Altercation on the pass), which has the great advantage of explaining in a simple way all the informations available nowadays ??
For the Stalinists who want to hide the moral perversity of some NKVD leaders and of Stalin himself, it is understandable.
But for the others...? ...eyes widely shut...? Hope or dream to live in a world without any violence...
§-4-} A cold case cannot be studied without understanding its historical context.
In the case of the DPI, it is essential to know the moral perversion that had infected some of the NKVD officers and functionaries.
••• To the misfortune of the Russian people (and perhaps to the misfortune of the communist ideology in the entire world) the sadistic tendencies of some camp guards of all ranks were encouraged by Stalin himself who had a typical sadistic personality.
For example, the historian Simon Sebag Montefiore (author of a famous biography of Stalin), testifies: "At a drunken dinner, Kamenev asked everyone around the table to say what was their dearest wish in life. Some said women, others answered sincerely that it was the progress of dialectical materialism towards the proletarian paradise. Then came Stalin's turn: 'My greatest pleasure is to choose a victim, to prepare plans thoroughly, to satisfy a relentless revenge and then to go to bed. There is nothing sweeter in the world.
••• Khrushchev was aware of 2 disadvantages of the gulag system which he stated in his secret speech to the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on 25 February 1956. (On the secret speech, which is quite lengthy and almost unreadable, see among many other sources : )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Cult_of_Personality_and_Its_Consequences
1°) It was the internment of millions of innocent and harmless citizens and the use of forced labour of the zeks in very harsh physical conditions.
2°) The Gulag system morally perverted a small number of the camp guards by turning them into sadistic psychopaths.
This explains why, in the eyes of Khrushchev's supporters, the de-Stalinisation implied the need for a harsh purge of the NKVD by the KGB.
As a result, it is almost certain that in Vizhay, located in the heart of Ivdellag, Stalinist Chekists were panicking over the holding of the 21st Congress of the CPSU (January 27 to February 5, 1959).
The extermination of Dyatlov's apolitical group (but who, with their exibition of the Voucher, was considered in Vizhay to be propagandists of the Thaw) was immediately understood in the Kremlin as a fierce manifestation of Stalinist opposition.
••• Among the testimonies on the poor living conditions in the camps and on the dehumanisation of some camp guards we have : Drawings from the Gulag by Danzig Baldaev(1925-2005)
An available source in English :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/drawings-gulag-danzig-baldaev-review
With the drawings in “Drawings from the Gulag”, Baldaev tries to collect evidence and document the crimes of the Communist. At no time was it intended for commercial publication or was taken abroad, but rather seems to have tried to collect material to remind of the grievous acts after a regime change, or, at best, to provide evidence of trials.....
Due to his profession, he was an eyewitness to several crimes depicted in his book..............
§-5-} So I recopy here this short excerpt written (in Russian) by Aleks Kandr.
Motives for murder:
- Personal dislike of the "capital's youth" and revenge for the insults inflicted, which may have been of little consequence, say, in their perception of any of us, but not for a professional sadist who had served for many years in the NKVD in complicity with the Stalinist repressions of the 30-50s.
- Hatred of the political changes taking place in the country after Stalin's death, epitomised by the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, which against the background of rampant propaganda in the media to celebrate the opening of the 21st Congress of the CPSU, may have further motivated the murder of tourists who dedicated their trek to this (21°) party congress.
Part 2, BottledBrunette : Reply #16
I think that BottledBrunette has guessed a good research lead, to explain Dubinina's mood changes
To be simpler and clearer I am transforming a bit what BottledBrunette wrote while keeping (I hope) the important meaning of her Reply #13 post.
--- Quote from: BottledBrunette on August 25, 2019, 11:36:05 PM Reply #16 (in substance, essence) ---........................
Dubinina clearly expressed her dissatisfaction with the very bad reception, which was intended to humiliate and also to swindle Dyatlov's group.
Consequently one of the men on Vizhay tried to rape her, or manhandle her a bit or lot, but, either she fought him off or it was interrupted somehow.
Sensitive young girls who are sexually assaulted by attempted rape or just being fondled, or harassed, then their personality change.
I have heard that in these circumstances, women then undergo a profound psychological changes in their personality:. Anger, lethargy, depression, self blaming, etc....
--- End quote ---
Dubinina's frustrations and anger were made worse by the fact that her 8 comrades seemed to accept everything and were not aware of these humiliating situations.
For Dubinina the mission of the leader Dyatlov was also to preserve the honour and interests of his group.
But instead of strongly protesting against the swindles and humiliations (coming from some unknown notables of Vizhay), Dyatlov submits by lazily dodging his duty to protest:
Dyatlov said with a smirk : "If the tea is cold, then go out and drink it on the street, it will be hot".
(Dyatlov's skills and interests were in science and sport, but not in bargaining and negotiating in front of oddly hostile innkeeper)
Kolgoromova seemed to have other concerns (that remain mysterious).
" I talked a lot about things which are completely unfamiliar to me and I scarcely do, but I tried, sincerely. But this is all
nonsense" (???,!)
Part 3 , writers in favour of « the fight in the night »
Vladimir Mihaylovich Askinadzi : « Don’t ask me, I don’t know who or why were they murdered. But this seems to me the only explanation of their death. »
At this moment, to improve my "altecation" theory I merely read and wisely mix the good ideas of a few writers.
First the most remarkable ones:
••• Per Inge Oestmoen (812 posts since March 12, 2018, that almost all say : « All the evidence points to murder....»)
••• Eduard Tumanov (is pushing a theory that « hikers took part in a fight, either between them or with outsiders...»)
••• Aleks Kandr (His very elaborate theory, but written only in Russian on several websites)
There are also many other writers who are perhaps less convinced by the "overwhelming force of the punches thrown by the few attackers."
••• Liyla79 - Noelle - hoosiergose - NightLurker - armyeng...etc...
EBE:
I think you are right about the murder theory being probably the most plausible one. Besides multiple traces indicating presence of someone else in the area of their death (putees, knife sheath, belt strap, spoon..), the hard evidence is clear: Autopsy reports. Almost all of them had injuries on the side or back of their head. Even Igor Dyatlov - this is not stated in the autopsy report, but is visible on one of the photos from the morgue.
Also, the fire at the cedar was by all means not a fire that would be made by the group to save themselves. It was used for a different purpose.
Manti:
I might be completely wrong but I always interpreted Lyuda's diary entry about "bad mood" that will probably continue for the next two days as her being on her period.
Could be anything else really, but she seemed pretty sure it will continue for a specific number of days... makes you wonder...
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: EBE on June 23, 2021, 06:15:41 AM --- Reply #47
I think you are right about the murder theory being probably the most plausible one.
.....................................................................
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I have now become a self-proclaimed spokesman of a murder theory or criminal theory ( Криминальные on https://taina.li/forum/index.php?board=112.0)
This theory was naturally formed by gathering the individual contributions of 3 main authors who are : Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen, Aleks Kandr.
Therefore, in recognition and tribute to those who might deserve to be called the founding fathers, I have chosen the name TOK theory.
TOK theory = Eduard Tumanov + Per Inge Oestmoen + Aleks Kandr = murder or relentless "Altercation on the pass"
For the essential contribution of Aleks Kandr see :
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0
Of course you should not take into account the few ridiculous allusions to astrolology and telepathy which are completely useless and harmful.
I do hope one day to have the mental stamina to write a more complete argument about the TOK theory, but as WAB says :
You need a very large amount of text to explain your position. Especially considering the fact that many positions need to be explained in great detail,....I'm not a writer,..... I want the physical result of what happened, not the number of letters on a paper ....
--- Quote from: EBE on June 23, 2021, 06:15:41 AM --- Reply #47
.............................................
Also, the fire at the cedar was by all means not a fire that would be made by the group to save themselves. It was used for a different purpose.
--- End quote ---
A weak point of the TOK theory is not the exit without proper equipment from the tent, but the orderly descent to the cedar.
EBE has here introduced a new idea that may be introduced into the TOK theory.
It was the attackers who started the fire so that they could fool the hikers by telling them:
It is deadly dangerous to stay near the tent. Go quickly to the first aid post under the cedar tree, where there is a fire.
(This was a ruse (cunning, ploy..) that was part of the tactic of the planned murder of the 9 hikers)
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