Victims and Case Files > Lyudmila Dubinina
Interview with Igor Aleksandrovich Dubinin, Lyuda's brother
Aspen:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on May 15, 2019, 11:14:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: sabine on May 15, 2019, 01:40:31 AM ---Sarapuk, Lev Ivanov explained the secrecy many decades later in a convoluted but sincere apology for shutting down the case against better knowledge. It seems that the investigators didn't have the foggiest idea what had happened to the nine tourists, and initially they were eager to find out how and why they died. But because of the widely reported sightings of strange and unexplained lights in the sky everybody became worried that there was a connection to the perplexing demise of the Dyatlov group. They worried about unannounced rocket and secret nuclear weapon tests. That's why Ivanov himself decided to test for radioactivity in the first place. Although some garments were slightly contaminated, no conclusive hints at rockets or weapon tests materialized, and they started to talk about the possibility of UFOs. When all bodies had been found, the higher level authorities apparently thought it would be better to wrap this vexing case up asap. Ivanov was told to shut down the case with the conclusion that the tourists had died because of bad decision making and hypothermia. Ivanow who knew very well that this wasn't the whole truth, didn't want to go on record with a blatant lie, and therefore he came up with the expression "insurmountable force" which can be interpreted any way you want.
The whole process comes across not so much as cold and rational decision making but as rather muddled. Nobody seemed to have a clue what really happened and therefore the case was shut down and declared secret just in case that something damning could emerge. And Ivanov apparently believed to his dying day that UFOs were involved and that the Soviet authorities wanted to keep this explosive knowledge top secret.
--- End quote ---
Yes I was thinking along the lines that maybe one reason if not the reason, was that the Authorities thought that the UFO's had something to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group. But the question remains as to what exactly was in the FOLDER TOP SECRET ! ?
--- End quote ---
Yes, the FOLDER TOP SECRET is what the focus should be. After 60 years and huge political changes in Russia, surely there is no need to maintain that secrecy. Sounds like Igor Dubinin made that request. How about several relatives making a group request, and being very public about it?
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Aspen on May 16, 2019, 12:29:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on May 15, 2019, 11:14:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: sabine on May 15, 2019, 01:40:31 AM ---Sarapuk, Lev Ivanov explained the secrecy many decades later in a convoluted but sincere apology for shutting down the case against better knowledge. It seems that the investigators didn't have the foggiest idea what had happened to the nine tourists, and initially they were eager to find out how and why they died. But because of the widely reported sightings of strange and unexplained lights in the sky everybody became worried that there was a connection to the perplexing demise of the Dyatlov group. They worried about unannounced rocket and secret nuclear weapon tests. That's why Ivanov himself decided to test for radioactivity in the first place. Although some garments were slightly contaminated, no conclusive hints at rockets or weapon tests materialized, and they started to talk about the possibility of UFOs. When all bodies had been found, the higher level authorities apparently thought it would be better to wrap this vexing case up asap. Ivanov was told to shut down the case with the conclusion that the tourists had died because of bad decision making and hypothermia. Ivanow who knew very well that this wasn't the whole truth, didn't want to go on record with a blatant lie, and therefore he came up with the expression "insurmountable force" which can be interpreted any way you want.
The whole process comes across not so much as cold and rational decision making but as rather muddled. Nobody seemed to have a clue what really happened and therefore the case was shut down and declared secret just in case that something damning could emerge. And Ivanov apparently believed to his dying day that UFOs were involved and that the Soviet authorities wanted to keep this explosive knowledge top secret.
--- End quote ---
Yes I was thinking along the lines that maybe one reason if not the reason, was that the Authorities thought that the UFO's had something to do with the demise of the Dyatlov Group. But the question remains as to what exactly was in the FOLDER TOP SECRET ! ?
--- End quote ---
Yes, the FOLDER TOP SECRET is what the focus should be. After 60 years and huge political changes in Russia, surely there is no need to maintain that secrecy. Sounds like Igor Dubinin made that request. How about several relatives making a group request, and being very public about it?
--- End quote ---
It could be that Russia is still in an hangover from those Soviet days. Lets not forget that for the best part of a Century the Russian land mass was the USSR. The younger generation will no doubt feel like moving on but the society in which they live is very much a society in transition. Trying to find its place in the modern Capitalist / Imperialist World dominated still by the USA, but not for much longer.
WAB:
--- Quote from: sabine on May 15, 2019, 01:40:31 AM --- Lev Ivanov explained the secrecy many decades later in a convoluted but sincere apology for shutting down the case against better knowledge. It seems that the investigators didn't have the foggiest idea what had happened to the nine tourists, and initially they were eager to find out how and why they died. But because of the widely reported sightings of strange and unexplained lights in the sky everybody became worried that there was a connection to the perplexing demise of the Dyatlov group. They worried about unannounced rocket and secret nuclear weapon tests. That's why Ivanov himself decided to test for radioactivity in the first place. Although some garments were slightly contaminated, no conclusive hints at rockets or weapon tests materialized, and they started to talk about the possibility of UFOs. When all bodies had been found, the higher level authorities apparently thought it would be better to wrap this vexing case up asap. Ivanov was told to shut down the case with the conclusion that the tourists had died because of bad decision making and hypothermia. Ivanow who knew very well that this wasn't the whole truth, didn't want to go on record with a blatant lie, and therefore he came up with the expression "insurmountable force" which can be interpreted any way you want.
The whole process comes across not so much as cold and rational decision making but as rather muddled. Nobody seemed to have a clue what really happened and therefore the case was shut down and declared secret just in case that something damning could emerge. And Ivanov apparently believed to his dying day that UFOs were involved and that the Soviet authorities wanted to keep this explosive knowledge top secret.
--- End quote ---
Dear sabine!
I want little add to that you have told. Almost all at you is told correctly, only it is necessary, as at us it is accepted speak, correctly place accents (or allocation of parts word).
1. Anybody (neither Ivanov, nor the authorities, neither Khruschev, well can be only god …) precisely did not know that has occurred to Dyatlov group. Even now it is not known.
2. Ivanov wanted that learn, but it did not have enough knowledge, as well as now they are not present at all who studies this case.
3. Ivanov has been assured that it has occurred because of UFO because could not explain all so precisely how much it is necessary under the law.
4. As the rocket technics all have been assured that is all developed in that time very quickly and powerfully, it was be closed for this reason. But details nobody knew, and actually it has no relation to case with group. It I can tell as the expert in this technics with scientific degree equal PhD in the western countries. As all information on rockets has been closed, there were many suspicions that hide for this reason. Even supervision of these of "fiery spheres» was reflexion of rocket starts actually, but about it did not know even the top ranks of region, for example Kirilenko. And all who was more low in hierarchy, especially Ivanov.
5. Speak about tests of the nuclear weapon in general it is ridiculous, because it is so extensive destructions and all well would be visible that it can be left only for visionaries. It all the same as in own apartment blow up big box with dynamite, and it anybody could not notice.
6. Interesting that nobody no coded criminal case (for this purpose should be accepted the decision on installations of special mode, but it did not do) it have simply put in the closed archive what limit access to it. Because the answer should be clear (as it should be made under the law), and it has not been made. Therefore say that all authorities hid the reason, it is not meaningful. It is impossible hide that is not known basically.
7. Ivanov has given task check up clothes on radio-activity for the several reasons:
A) There were many conversations on nuclear tests.
B) He did not know where direct idea investigation of the reason and has decided check up it, let it exists as the most improbable.
C) In it is high time passed additional training, to direction of studying a radio-activity (as the expert of criminal investigations) and has decided combine the training with practice.
Actually the raised radio-activity was as result one of two reasons:
a) In 1958 on islands Novaya Zemlia was many nuclear tests, and distance therefrom to place of events rather small - about 1400 km have been spent many. Therefore much radionuclides it has been carry to atmosphere and has dropped out in the form of dust deposits.
b) Two of participants of Dyatlov group worked in conditions where radioactive substances were applied. Therefore could bring things on which there were rests of these substances. Pollution level was very low (all in 2 or 3 times though, bit dangerous level is in 50 … 100 times and could be considered more) and was not on all clothes.
At that time supervision over observance measures of protection was yet such strict as now, therefore it is not necessary compare that is now.
8. All participants of Dyatlov group have died of overcooling. It is the medical fact. At four it has been complicated by the received wounds. Therefore hide what that the reason or replace its another it is not meaningful. The reason is that as in the nature. Other reason can be thought up, but prove its real events it is impossible, because they did not exist. Usually this reason is thought out by people who do not know many bases of about what speak. Bernard Shaw spoke: “If people do not know the reason they he replace with its conjectures.» (c). But people are always dissatisfied with the authorities, therefore consider that if that do not tell that them, only because from all of them hide. The authorities did not know the reason, therefore and did not tell anything. But as the case was resonant and many people have been raised, the authorities aspired finish and calm somewhat quicker all the people that them would leave alone.
9. It was not necessary stop investigation quickly. Under the law it was necessary operate 2 months at preliminary investigation if the case of criminal character is not found out. After that it was possible prolong races following for one month. If compare that is written in case it turns out so: it has openly put on February, 26th 1959; on April, 28th 1959 case has been prolonged for one month. As signs of criminal event it was not revealed, it have buried on May, 28th 1959. Under the law more term it was not supposed. Therefore anybody ahead of schedule did not close this case. It is the fact.
10. Ivanov has invent the ingenious formulation at case closing: force majeure. It completely corresponds to that was. But there is no concrete reason of event and it is all irritates. Though, until now anybody knows nothing about this concrete reason. Because there is no sufficient scientific knowledge. Attempt change this ignorance by conjectures will not lead to solution. It will be simple gamble information based on unreliable information.
PS. I sincerely do not understand, what is connection “Interview with Igor Aleksandrovich Dubinin”, has discussion about actions and intentions of inspector Ivanov? Perhaps, other theme is for this purpose necessary?
Loose}{Cannon:
--- Quote ---but not for much longer
--- End quote ---
lol1
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