Theories Discussion > Elk(s) attack
Elk(s) attack
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Radim on April 08, 2019, 03:32:25 PM ---According Mansis skills with tracking - yes I think I know what you mean.
The problem is that they did not know all the informations which we know today after 60 years. They did not know the body dissect reports, etc. They were in terain and they just saw a dressed frozen bodies. They "just" saw the scenarary. They probalby had not time to analyze their recognitions with official investigators.
I also doubt that some of investigate officiers take not them seriously. In my opinion the investigators considered Mansijs as some crazy bushers.
Mansijs probably are very good scouts, but this is a little bit more than tracking. Its about informations and personal inteligence. Im sure they could recognize elks footprints at place, or any place, but a lot of people will say that it can be printed week ago, 5 days ago, 4 days ago....
To recognize the footprints older than 48 hours you will have to lead a notes of weather for each day till you need to recognize. Because after 48 hours a lot of peaople cannot remeber what was the weather later.
[/quote
The Investigators were only to willing to let the Mansi help them in their search for the Dyatlov bodies. Therefore why would they have thought of them as crazy bushers ! ?
--- End quote ---
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Radim on April 09, 2019, 12:44:29 AM ---If the bodies were faced by heavy hypothermy, than probably were not present significant bruises.
If their faced by 400-700kgs weigh elk, than the mechanism of injuries really can be very similar like an car crash. How the coroner mentioned in report-Internal bodies injuries.
This elk teory says that elk killed nobody - he just caused the injuries and probably not to all of Dyatlavov members. Elk was "just" the reason of time which they had to spent in nature without clothes. (probably excluding Dubininova and head injured teammate).
Coroner also got just a frozen bodies, in reports there is no mentionted that he was present at place (in mountines) - he probalby did not examinate the bodies at place but in the morgue.
So it can be the reason why the coroners could not accurately determine the real mechanism of injury. According their profesional experiences they compare the mechanism of injuries to car crash accidents - which they knew very well.
I also think that some of injuries could be caused during the dragging of frozen bodies on snow by rescuers. "COnfusion bruises".
And dont forget that it is 60 years ago. They had not any DNA proceduress any criminalised technics with high tech equpment like today.
I think the Dyatlavov pass coroners made a very good job whereas how bad they had an informations.
--- End quote ---
If an Elk or Elks attacked and caused injuries similar to a car crash then why no EXTERNAL traces, ie, NO SKIN OR MUSCLE DAMAGE to the Ravine bodies ! ?
Radim:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 09, 2019, 01:21:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Radim on April 08, 2019, 03:12:56 PM ---I do not say that the Dyatlavov pass was been killed by elk. No. (Excluding Dubininova and secondone with head wound, both of them will probably died in all way after this meeting with elk/elks).
I just think that the elk/elks were the reason why the Dyatlavov pass frozen.
If exists some Picture of Dyatlavovs line formation prints, than I can make analyzation (description) of their movement, but I have not found usable Picture.
The Picture with footprints above just confirms to me, that the person really went without shoes without bergen. If the print in blue area on right is really elks (and Im starting to be sure it is really elks footprints) than the right elk footprint is less than 30cm next of human footprint. This confirms me of very close attack.
--- End quote ---
I dont see any ELK Hoof Prints ! ?
--- End quote ---
OK, what are according your opinion the prints in blue borders ..?? (picture above)
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Radim on April 09, 2019, 02:10:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 09, 2019, 01:21:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Radim on April 08, 2019, 03:12:56 PM ---I do not say that the Dyatlavov pass was been killed by elk. No. (Excluding Dubininova and secondone with head wound, both of them will probably died in all way after this meeting with elk/elks).
I just think that the elk/elks were the reason why the Dyatlavov pass frozen.
If exists some Picture of Dyatlavovs line formation prints, than I can make analyzation (description) of their movement, but I have not found usable Picture.
The Picture with footprints above just confirms to me, that the person really went without shoes without bergen. If the print in blue area on right is really elks (and Im starting to be sure it is really elks footprints) than the right elk footprint is less than 30cm next of human footprint. This confirms me of very close attack.
--- End quote ---
I dont see any ELK Hoof Prints ! ?
--- End quote ---
OK, what are according your opinion the prints in blue borders ..?? (picture above)
--- End quote ---
I remember some years ago when I got interested in TRACKING. I was especially interested in stories of Tracks in SNOW. What I learned was fairly straightforward. Tracks in Snow can be very misleading. There are factors at play that can give a completely wrong impression [ no pun intended ]. One factor is TEMPERATURE. Often overlooked. Another is RAIN. Obviously the depth of the Snow is important. So lets say a HOOF PRINT is made in the Snow. The Snow will change shape. How fast depends on the factors at play. Erosion is considered a fairly slow process. But it may change shape more quickly. So when the Dyatlov Search Parties found various PRINTS or TRACKS in the Snow those shapes would most likely be different to when they were first made. Do you see where Iam coming from.
Radim:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 09, 2019, 01:30:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Radim on April 09, 2019, 12:44:29 AM ---If the bodies were faced by heavy hypothermy, than probably were not present significant bruises.
If their faced by 400-700kgs weigh elk, than the mechanism of injuries really can be very similar like an car crash. How the coroner mentioned in report-Internal bodies injuries.
This elk teory says that elk killed nobody - he just caused the injuries and probably not to all of Dyatlavov members. Elk was "just" the reason of time which they had to spent in nature without clothes. (probably excluding Dubininova and head injured teammate).
Coroner also got just a frozen bodies, in reports there is no mentionted that he was present at place (in mountines) - he probalby did not examinate the bodies at place but in the morgue.
So it can be the reason why the coroners could not accurately determine the real mechanism of injury. According their profesional experiences they compare the mechanism of injuries to car crash accidents - which they knew very well.
I also think that some of injuries could be caused during the dragging of frozen bodies on snow by rescuers. "COnfusion bruises".
And dont forget that it is 60 years ago. They had not any DNA proceduress any criminalised technics with high tech equpment like today.
I think the Dyatlavov pass coroners made a very good job whereas how bad they had an informations.
--- End quote ---
If an Elk or Elks attacked and caused injuries similar to a car crash then why no EXTERNAL traces, ie, NO SKIN OR MUSCLE DAMAGE to the Ravine bodies ! ?
--- End quote ---
If you check the photo of Zinas deadbody, you can see some inpurity on her trousers. Many people say that it is grass. I dont think so. I will try to explain why:
1) grass in heavy snow area is unusual
2) Grass is soft - This "grass" on her trousers is too short and straight - hard material
3) The grass is visible only on her right hip (buttock)
4) distance dispersion of the "grass" is unusual (at one place it is very clustered, in lower position quite sparse)
5) This "grass" is stucked in trousers - it is not on surface
In my opinion this is not a grass, but elks hairs.
According your point about dead bodies in ravine. There are nowhere more detailed pictures of dead bodies or directly from ravine. This is very hard to say.
The whole chaos and whole Daytlavovs mystery is according my opinion caused by unprofessional "crime scene" documentation.
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