Theories Discussion > Murdered

Injuries

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sarapuk:

--- Quote from: RidgeWatcher on December 11, 2020, 07:52:36 PM ---I worked in Trauma Surgery, more or less for over twenty years. Even in traumas you don't see it very much. When you do see it you know you are in for a ride because the underlying damage to the coronary structures and pericardial sac along with the lungs almost always is going to be compromised. These days with all the air bags you see it less than say when your chest hits a steering wheel directly on, at over 30mph.
I am not sure how Semyon's nor Lyuda's flail chest happened but I have a difficult time thinking it happened by falling 12 feet onto some boughs on top of the snow. I have always had a hard time seeing this. When you do see flail chest there is almost always a visual malformation of the chest and skin surface with signs of trauma and it is very painful with the patients most likely in shock. The last 20-30 minutes for those two had to be horrifying, terrifying if they were conscious. Out there in the cold I have a hard time believing that anyone could cause this with a weapon unless Semyon and Lyuda were being held down or held against a tree.

--- End quote ---

Do you think its possible that the injuries could have been caused by a fall from a much greater height than was at the Ravine  ? 

Per Inge Oestmoen:

--- Quote from: sarapuk on December 12, 2020, 04:44:35 PM ---On the contrary. A fall could have caused such injuries. But it would have had to have been a fall from a significant height. Higher than at the Ravine. The injuries could also have been caused by something crushing them.

--- End quote ---


No, it could not.

A fall would not affect the breast cage without any damage to the limbs or face.

Per Inge Oestmoen:

--- Quote from: Star man on December 12, 2020, 02:57:25 AM ---Agreed.  Would have to fall onto hard objects like large boulders.  I can’t see any human wielded weapon causing these injuries either.

--- End quote ---


Trust me, trained close combat specialists can crush even skulls with elbow strikes. Special forces operators know this, and they know how to crush a human body in order to cause internal bleeding, shock, and death.

It is also fully possible that a rifle butt was used.

Either way, there is no problem crushing a human breast cage.

It is fully conceivable that one or two attackers held their victims, while another dealt the deadly blows.

sarapuk:

--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on December 19, 2020, 11:15:25 AM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on December 12, 2020, 04:44:35 PM ---On the contrary. A fall could have caused such injuries. But it would have had to have been a fall from a significant height. Higher than at the Ravine. The injuries could also have been caused by something crushing them.

--- End quote ---


No, it could not.

A fall would not affect the breast cage without any damage to the limbs or face.

--- End quote ---

Well say someone fell from a building onto a concrete floor. You could then suggest that damage to other parts of the body would be evident. But a fall onto snow is another matter.

sarapuk:

--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on December 19, 2020, 11:20:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: Star man on December 12, 2020, 02:57:25 AM ---Agreed.  Would have to fall onto hard objects like large boulders.  I can’t see any human wielded weapon causing these injuries either.

--- End quote ---


Trust me, trained close combat specialists can crush even skulls with elbow strikes. Special forces operators know this, and they know how to crush a human body in order to cause internal bleeding, shock, and death.

It is also fully possible that a rifle butt was used.

Either way, there is no problem crushing a human breast cage.

It is fully conceivable that one or two attackers held their victims, while another dealt the deadly blows.

--- End quote ---

And presumably they clinically removed the eyes and tongue. And left no footprints or other traces.

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